Refreshing talk today with HV's regarding BFing

[Blah11]

Sounds like your NHS trust is a bit shit in materntiy services then

 

[MrsPOP]

In the UK..

35% of babies are BF at 1 week
21% at 6 weeks
7% at 4 months
3% at 5 months

so terrible.

Oh my god Its amazing that so many FF mums feel like they are bullied about BF and in the minority, when the BFing rates are so shockingly low! At 14 months and still breastfeeding I must be one of about 0.142422%! This country sucks.

Please dont be so dismissive of how we FF mums feel. You have never been there, so you do not know the pain of being a 'failure'. It kills me, absolutely kills me that I couldnt breastfeed, especially as my LO has a VSD and I think I cant give her the best nutrition. Everytime I see a Breastfeeding Milestone Blinkie on here I want to cry, out of pain and jealousy that I was a failure as a woman. I never told anyone but I still tried for weeks to latch Alice on and even wondered about relactating (as one breast still leaks a bit). But I was getting too low, too depressed about it. FF saved my sanity.

BF was the one hope I had to have some control over things I had everything else taken away from me (was induced for Pre-eclampsia, had an EMCS after 36 hours of labour and getting to 9 sodding cm)...and then I had BF taken away from me due to a disgusting lack of support. I still cant get over the entire thing, the induction, the Csection, the having to FF. And then you see comments like how BFers are 'special snowflakes' with a smug smiley on the end!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Blah11]

Just because we're proud of the fact that we've bf for 6 months, 12 months, 14 months, 31 months etc, doesn't mean we're rubbing it in your face :\ It was just a joke lou made jeez.

 

[MrsPOP]

Sounds like your NHS trust is a bit shit in materntiy services then

Absolutely, Ive had to fight to get a Debrief appointment with them where I will be detailing all my complaints. They refused to give me one until they realised I wasnt going to give up.

Ironically, the trust I was in is a world renowned centre of excellence.

Everything I went through there has damaged me so much. We had to go back there to register Alice a couple of weeks after her birth and when we pulled in to the car park I started to shake and cry. I never want to set foot in that hellhole ever again.

 

[MrsPOP]

Just because we're proud of the fact that we've bf for 6 months, 12 months, 14 months, 31 months etc, doesn't mean we're rubbing it in your face :\ It was just a joke lou made jeez.

Yes, be proud, its an amazing achievement. Perhaps just a bit of sensitivity with these jokes to those who are still feeling raw over their experiences might be in order? Maybe once time goes on I wont find those jokes upsetting. But I do at the moment. However I would never want to take away from your achievements just as I would hope you wouldnt want to take away from my horrendous BF experience.

 

[louandivy]

Mrs POP please don't read into my post so much, all I was trying to say is that it is interesting that many FF mums feel like they are being judged and are in the minority when in fact it is the complete opposite! Its just strange.

 

[louandivy]

Ahhh you were referring to the 'special snowflakes' comment. It was clearly sarcasm! Thought that was pretty obvious. ESPECIALLY the smug smiley, you are being waaaay over sensitive.

 

[leighbaby]

This thread is quite distressing. There is so much misinformation in it!

There ARE MORE risks involved with FF...that is why breast is best (trace elements, vitamins, antibodies for the digestive system, the perfect ingredients to make antibodies for ANY other pathogen the mother has come into contact with) and people who chose to FF NEED to be aware of the risks or they are not well informed. Be it risks about preparation, not cuddling while feeding (babies NEED skin to skin - so stroking, tickling etc) or making eye contact, sleeping with a baby (NOT recommended if you FF, but of no consequence if you BF) etc. BF is very difficult to do 'wrong' so is therefore, by default, more safe. ((and for the record - if a baby is born at 'term', so 37+ weeks, it has a store of brown fat to keep it going while breast feeding is established...typically up to a week...but so few people share this info and scare new mums with notions about babies starving to death if they don't feed NOW etc))

It is incredibley sad to hear about women who try and desperately WANT to BF, but as more and more mothers try and have success, more will be able to share help with others.

I wish evey town had a group like the one I have - it is a LLL and wasn't set up when I started out, but now it has an amazing core of about 15 women who are dedicated to HELPING, not belittling or showing off, just helping.

 

[louandivy]

This thread is quite distressing. There is so much misinformation in it!

There ARE MORE risks involved with FF...that is why breast is best (trace elements, vitamins, antibodies for the digestive system, the perfect ingredients to make antibodies for ANY other pathogen the mother has come into contact with) and people who chose to FF NEED to be aware of the risks or they are not well informed. Be it risks about preparation, not cuddling while feeding (babies NEED skin to skin - so stroking, tickling etc) or making eye contact etc. BF is very difficult to do 'wrong' so is therefore, by default, more safe. ((and for the record - if a baby is born at 'term', so 37+ weeks, it has a store of brown fat to keep it going while breast feeding is established...typically up to a week...but so few people share this info and scare new mums with notions about babies starving to death if they don't feed NOW etc))

It is incredibley sad to hear about women who try and desperately WANT to BF, but as more and more mothers try and have success, more will be able to share help with others.

I wish evey town had a group like the one I have - it is a LLL and wasn't set up when I started out, but now it has an amazing core of about 15 women who are dedicated to HELPING, not belittling or showing off, just helping.

I am so grateful that my midwife told me this, otherwise I'm not sure I could have continued breastfeeding as it took me soo long to get the hang of it! I'm surprised by the number of stories I see on hear of women not being informed that it is normal for babies to lose weight in the first few weeks. I got so lucky with my breastfeeding support, it makes such a huge difference in those first few days.

 

[Blah11]

I had an argument sorta in a diff thread a while back about the whole a baby won't starve in the first few days but it fell on deaf ears I agree, loads of misinformation.

 

[louandivy]

Seriously? If that was true then Ivy would have been a very sick baby, aside from feeding her tiny amounts of colostrum from a syringe I don't think I fed her properly for at least the first 3 days. I can't believe how inconsistent the information and support is throughout the country, its shocking.

 

[summer rain]

I've come across many midwives working in my local NHS trust who a)don't even believe colostrum exists and so top ups are needed until the milk comes in or b)its not enough to keep baby going and they need regular formula top ups anyway. I do believe actually that if the support for BF was better (as opposed to promotion) there would be far less need even for giving information about FF to everyone, because it would be a far smaller percentage who need to switch to FF for medical reasons, and those who have chosen to FF since they got pregnant or even since they were a little girl have surely based that on research on the ins and outs of actually formula feeding on a practical level.

There seems to be a few issues being discussed in this thread, the first one is info isn't given on the pros and cons of both BF and FF during pregnancy-in my personal experience it is and even if it isn't most baby magazines will have such information practically every other month. When my eldest was small information on FF was even more widespread than it is now, breastfeeding is barely mentioned in his red book and there was maybe a page in the bounty book but I don't think it led to mums always correctly preparing feeds or sterilising properly, I've read studies from the 70s where virtually everyone FF and medical staff had no knowledge of BF (with my eldest sister the MWs had to go to the library and get a book on BF, they had no idea what it involved!). These studies show that incorrect preperation and making up feeds with too much formula were practically the norm in many cases-yet everyone in those days knew about formula, how to make bottles up etc so what gives?

The second issue is health professionals not being allowed to give information on FF even when asked; or a bare minimum, this is the policy of individual NHS trusts probably dreamt up by some jobsworth and not the government or NHS overall-if it was an overall policy then it would be the same in all areas but it isn't.

The third issue mentioned is health professionals not being able to recommend specific brands or types of milk, again this may just be in some areas, when it comes to a real medical problem I know most women were told a specific type of milk by their HV or GP i.e. a comfort milk, staydown etc so this isn't everywhere but you will get a lot of midwives and HVs promoting brands anyway and telling mums lies like aptamil is closest to breastmilk, or even that the other formulas are not as nutritionally complete as aptamil and you're doing your baby harm by not giving aptamil; I think if they were officially allowed to promote brands it would be very hard for the NHS to draw any type of line and it would be like a massive free for all trying to get customers.

N.B. If you look at my sig you'll notice I am a BFer and FFer so been on both sides of the fence, I have to say though when I was a FFer, HCPs including HVs and the paediatricians at the hospital dealing with my eldest (who was on formula from 7.5 months) were far more positive and friendly than when I was BF, they also were not bothered about my sons following the weight chart anymore but when they were BF the HCPs were obsessed; and I was pushed to try formula with my second youngest as they simply wouldn't believe it was an allergy issue but an issue of him not getting enough milk which was causing him to be incredibly poorly and lose weight. I switched him to formula gradually and he put on a pound in a week and the HVs were all like 'see it was your supply but never mind as you've done the right thing' they didn't care one iota that after that he gained weight/height pretty poorly (he was around the same size aged one as LO is now) and the formula didn't help at all in the longer term; and that he still has allergies even though my other boy who had the same problem outgrew them at two years.

 

[MrsPOP]

Ahhh you were referring to the 'special snowflakes' comment. It was clearly sarcasm! Thought that was pretty obvious. ESPECIALLY the smug smiley, you are being waaaay over sensitive.

Hmmm. Yes I am, because I went through utter hell and Im still extremely scarred over the experience. I would have thought my first post on this thread would have indicated that and made people realise there may be a reason behind why Im so against the judgement FFers do get (and we do get judged whether you believe it or not!), even if you cant offer the support and hugs you've given to other mums on this thread who are struggling to come to terms with switching to FF. Perhaps when Im further away from what happened and have come to terms with it, I will chortle along with such 'jokes' and wont wish as desperately as I do now that I was as lucky as you are.

Perhaps you'd be suprised to realise I judge myself the most for the FF? I hate myself for failing my child. I couldnt go into labour naturally, I couldnt give birth naturally, I cant feed my child naturally. You wouldnt know how much that hurts unless you'd been through it yourself.

And Im out of here. Im going to cuddle my formula fed and much loved daughter. Thankfully she doesnt judge me on how I feed her.

*clicks unsubscribe*

 

[Tasha]

Aren't all mothers-to-be, given the NHS 'The Pregnancy Book' at their booking in? We get one here anyway. Page 115-119 is all about formula feeding, how to make bottles safely, how to store them, ingredients, risks, and so on

The last time I received one of them was nearly eight years ago, so much has changed since then (bottle guidelines, weaning guidelines, what you can and cant eat/drink in pregnancy etc) but here they only give them to first time mum's.

 

[Tasha]

There is going to be a MW about from the first feed anyway. Most people try and BF the first few days and the baby isnt going to starve in 1 day from not getting much from the breast. If they wish to move on from FF then you see a MW or HV a lot in the first few weeks.

This might be true in your experience but not in mine. Morgan I saw a mw twice and hv when I went to the clinic once every 2-3 weeks. Naomi-Mae very similar. Honey I saw no one (different I know but I had still give birth). Kyasie Blossom I had an emergency section was discharged 3 days post delivery and first saw a mw 11 days post delivery and never saw a hv, and Riley Rae nearly five months on and I have seen no one. Just thought you might like to know the different experiences that are out there (sorry if someone else has said, not read all the way through yet)

 

[Blah11]

There is going to be a MW about from the first feed anyway. Most people try and BF the first few days and the baby isnt going to starve in 1 day from not getting much from the breast. If they wish to move on from FF then you see a MW or HV a lot in the first few weeks.

This might be true in your experience but not in mine. Morgan I saw a mw twice and hv when I went to the clinic once every 2-3 weeks. Naomi-Mae very similar. Honey I saw no one (different I know but I had still give birth). Kyasie Blossom I had an emergency section was discharged 3 days post delivery and first saw a mw 11 days post delivery and never saw a hv, and Riley Rae nearly five months on and I have seen no one. Just thought you might like to know the different experiences that are out there (sorry if someone else has said, not read all the way through yet)

Really? A mw came out everyday for the first 4 days then every 2nd til day 10. After that hv came out maybe 3 times a week for 2 more weeks. We seen them liads, was a pain tbh lol.

 

[indy and lara]

Honestly I am not sure if I am not writing this clearly or if there is some other issue. As far as I can see we are talking about just that- the availablity of information about FF. As I have said upteen times, my Health Board (meaning MWs, HV etc) openly talk about FF if they are asked. They discuss storage, making up bottles etc. I have also heard them suggesting that people look to hungry baby milk etc. So the information you say people want is available if needed from my Health Board and is not restricted. This is surely the case for all information- it is there if you need it. As I said already, I cannot believe this is the only one where this is the case.

I find it interesting the people want to be told what to do regarding FF but as a society there is a constant outcry when the government issue guidelines regarding parenting and raising children. I do think that if you are planning to FF from the get go then it is your responsibility to educate yourself about how to do it before baby arrives. Surely that is the case about all aspects of parenting? Guidelines change over time and it has to be our responsibility to make sure we are educated about what is current. I do not know anyone IRL who was not offered NHS ante-natal classes or who did not get the Ready, Steady, Baby book. At the ante-natal classes FF was discussed and it wasn't looked down at, nor was it looked down upon subsequently.

First bit in bold - err Im not sure what you mean about that but no, no other issue apart from I think it is very wrong that information is restricted.

Second bit - there was a post (I think the OP) stating that the HV had been told she wasnt allowed to discuss more than very basic info re: FF and was only allowed to discuss it when asked and she had an opinion on which milk the child would be better on from a health POV and wasnt allowed to discuss it with the mum!!!!! The whole point of this thread was about the restriction of information!
Third bit - Not all mums plan to FF and stock up on BF info (like me) and then have to switch to FF unexpectedly and mightnt have even read the Pregnancy Book section about FF because they never expected to need it (like me). So what's the harm, say when the the MW comes to visit on the day of discharge or on a postnatal check and the mum asks the HV if she is doing something right with regards to bottle feeding. How rubbish would it be if the HV is not allowed to answer that mum's query? Let's not forget how scary and horrible being a new mum can be, it doesnt matter how much you research beforehand, the first few days are awful and a bit of reassurance and info from a friendly face of a HCP about your decision to FF cant harm. Or on a HV visit when you have a baby with reflux or whatever and you think changing milk may help but you have no clue which one is the best and from that HCPs experience they believe a certain milk might be better in the best interests of the child (and of course telling them to go to the GP)?


I really dont understand why people have a problem with people accessing information from health professionals about FF. That's what this issue comes down to. Like I keep repeating, we dont want promotional posters, we dont want peer support workers, we dont want workshops. All we are in support of is to have the ability to ask questions from the HCPs involved in our care about FF and not have restrictions about the type of information available (like I said discussing types of milk in certain situations rather than brands).

I feel I am saying the same thing over and over again hence the comment about some other problem. I have answered in response to the lack of information over and over again but here goes once again.

Where we stay, there is NO problem getting information about FF from the Health Board and its employees. I have already given umpteem examples of when this has happened when my daughter was a baby. I was responding to the initial post to say that restriction of information is not the case across the country. The written information was given out in several forms by the health board (NHS Lothian) and the HVs/MWs were willing to discuss it. I am not sure how much more anyone could be asked for.

 

[24/7]

There is going to be a MW about from the first feed anyway. Most people try and BF the first few days and the baby isnt going to starve in 1 day from not getting much from the breast. If they wish to move on from FF then you see a MW or HV a lot in the first few weeks.

This might be true in your experience but not in mine. Morgan I saw a mw twice and hv when I went to the clinic once every 2-3 weeks. Naomi-Mae very similar. Honey I saw no one (different I know but I had still give birth). Kyasie Blossom I had an emergency section was discharged 3 days post delivery and first saw a mw 11 days post delivery and never saw a hv, and Riley Rae nearly five months on and I have seen no one. Just thought you might like to know the different experiences that are out there (sorry if someone else has said, not read all the way through yet)

Really? A mw came out everyday for the first 4 days then every 2nd til day 10. After that hv came out maybe 3 times a week for 2 more weeks. We seen them liads, was a pain tbh lol.

Wow, our MW came on day 1, 7 and 14 and that was it, then on day 16 the HV came. xx

 

[indy and lara]

Ahhh you were referring to the 'special snowflakes' comment. It was clearly sarcasm! Thought that was pretty obvious. ESPECIALLY the smug smiley, you are being waaaay over sensitive.

Hmmm. Yes I am, because I went through utter hell and Im still extremely scarred over the experience. I would have thought my first post on this thread would have indicated that and made people realise there may be a reason behind why Im so against the judgement FFers do get (and we do get judged whether you believe it or not!), even if you cant offer the support and hugs you've given to other mums on this thread who are struggling to come to terms with switching to FF. Perhaps when Im further away from what happened and have come to terms with it, I will chortle along with such 'jokes' and wont wish as desperately as I do now that I was as lucky as you are.

Perhaps you'd be suprised to realise I judge myself the most for the FF? I hate myself for failing my child. I couldnt go into labour naturally, I couldnt give birth naturally, I cant feed my child naturally. You wouldnt know how much that hurts unless you'd been through it yourself.

And Im out of here. Im going to cuddle my formula fed and much loved daughter. Thankfully she doesnt judge me on how I feed her.

*clicks unsubscribe*

Nobody here is judging you. I have no issue with whether you FF or BF. I doubt that many other people do either. Being passionate or more pro one version of feeding does not automatically make you anti the other. Not BFing does not make you a failure at anything and you are judging yourself far more and far more harshly than anyone else is.

Everyone gets judged about how they raise their child. It is a sad fact of life. If it is not BF or FF it is how and when you wean or it is how you sleep or it is car seats. I could go on.

Mrs Pop I really hope you manage to get your debrief and find a way to find some peace. Lots of us sadly know about guilt in relation to our child/ childbirth but it is not an emotion that is very productive or one which helps you enjoy what you have. I had considerable guilt about the fact that our son died and that Emma was early and in SCBU but there came a point when I had to put it behind me. I hope you find some way of making peace.

 

[Stargazer77]

It's 8 years ago now so might be different these days but my MW came round twice. Once to weigh LO and check my stitches, and once for the heel prick thing.
She showed no interest whatsoever in how I was feeding, so long as I was feeding and LO was thriving.