Refreshing talk today with HV's regarding BFing

[leighbaby]

If you read more closely you'll see that I wrote 'CAN' be, not 'IS'.

FFers in the first world are incredibly lucky to be able to able to feed their babies successfully. However, any problem with electricity or water supply would put their babies at risk, that is a simple fact. Probably a fact that SHOULD be given to all pregnant ladies with any other FF info they recieve.

 

[aliss]

If you read more closely you'll see that I wrote 'CAN' be, not 'IS'.

FFers in the first world are incredibly lucky to be able to able to feed their babies successfully. However, any problem with electricity or water supply would put their babies at risk, that is a simple fact. Probably a fact that SHOULD be given to all pregnant ladies with any other FF info they recieve.

100% with you there. Nobody thinks about power loss or natural disasters with formula. My son is formula-fed and when we recently got hit by Hurricane Irene, it was a scary thought to deal with. Even the cow's milk could have spoiled easily, if I had been breastfeeding it would not be as bad. And that was something mild. Can you imagine being an FF mom and enduring something like the big Tsunami in 2004? These are things that people don't think about. They should be reminded.

 

[Mindy_mini]

There is plenty of info on making up a feeJd for a bottle on the packs/in the leaflets you get through the door if you sign up for pretty much anything.

Ok as a FF mummy (not by choice btw), I think there are more than enough breast feeding support groups around so the midwives/HV/any other hcp don't need to help/discuss bf with you.

...

Totally not how I feel but you can't just say it's out there look for the info whilst expecting the professionals to provide you will the help information and assistance to meet your needs and sod this who want a different choice.

 

[indy and lara]

I do not think that the NHS could ever promote a particular brand of formula or bottle as there is no doubt that the other companies would sue. FF is big business afterall.

Sometimes I just think that the NHS can never win. People seem to be never happy with what they do. No matter what treatmens or advice there is available it never seems to be enough for some people. I do wonder what happened in the 70s where lots of Mums, like mine and MIL, used formula because they saw it as a step for feminism and meant they were not tied to their baby? There was no internet for info so I presume they just read the instructions and got on with it or asked family for advice? Serious question, I don't know.

As a BFer it seems pretty simple to me that with formula you read the information about the brands and then make it up according to instructions. Is that really not the cae? They certainly said in my NHS ante-natal classes not to make up bottles in advance etc so it is simply not true that there is a blanket ban across the UK about talking about FF.

 

[JASMAK]

I think that formula should NOT be promoted in any way. When I first got pregnant, I barely thought about BFing...I was just going to bottle feed. But, then I received so much information from the staff at the hospital, the health nurses, prenatal classes..I knew then it was the best thing for my baby.

Sorry jasmak, I'm not picking on You specifically here but I donfeel really strongly that more needs to be done to give women informed choice. How do you know bf is best for your baby I you haven't received ALL the information about bf AND ff?

I find it shocking how opinionated and narrow minded people who sucessfully breastfed can be. We arent all successful. I had to start mix feeding because my baby was starving in front of me. I had knowledge because I'm training to be a mw BUT 6 days after giving birth with my own baby, all my knowledge meant nothing - all rational thoughts went out the window. I couldn't remember the basics - others who didnt have my background just wouldn't have known.

For some, breast feeding doesn't work, for others they don't want to. Why should they be denied this information the could potentially make the difference between a baby being fed safely or dangerously???

FAR too much pressure is placed on women to breast feed. Having a child comes with a massive bucket of guilt and worry and to have to actually ask for information on basics such as feeding only adds to that guilt. I struggled to come to terms wih giving my dd formula because of a comment made to me about how bf is SOOO much better for dd but in reality, she is thriving now. Shes advanced for her age, she's healthy - healthier than the child of someone who lectured me on how much better bf is for her.

So in response to the opening poster, I totally agree that a balanced view of both should be presented - risk and benefits of each - to allow a woman to make and informed choice.

Actually, if you read my entire post, you would see that I said that FF SHOULD be given the information, just not promote it. Sorry you misunderstood. I still do not think that FF should be 'promoted' in anyway...and just because I BF does not make me 'narrow-minded'. My head is not in the sand...I know that there is some issues, but I think with support and education, there would be less issues.

 

[leighbaby]

There is plenty of info on making up a feeJd for a bottle on the packs/in the leaflets you get through the door if you sign up for pretty much anything.

Ok as a FF mummy (not by choice btw), I think there are more than enough breast feeding support groups around so the midwives/HV/any other hcp don't need to help/discuss bf with you.

...

Totally not how I feel but you can't just say it's out there look for the info whilst expecting the professionals to provide you will the help information and assistance to meet your needs and sod this who want a different choice.

It isn't the same though.

Each brand will give you instructions on the box to follow (unless you live in a country where the box's writing is in a language you can't read). People manage to follow instructions successfully for cooking/using their mobiles/puttong together flat packs etc?! (I'm not saying it is easy to put together the perfect bottle - there are numerous potential problems, but they are exhaustive..it is practically a checklist situation)

Baby's do not come with instructions and it is impossible to EXPLAIN the perfect hold/latch etc for bfing as every mother and baby are different.

 

[JASMAK]

What info do people need on FF anyways? Just curious, not trying to be rude. I am just wondering, because all of my babies received formula at some point, but it was pretty straight forward, or so I thought...not to mention that the formula companies not only send the info to your door, but there is plenty of samples, coupons, and even milestone info etc...I mean, at least here in Canada, where I am, there is PLENTY of info on formula..more so than BFing. It just comes from a different source...so am I missing something...is it just because the health professionals aren't promoting it??? Or is there more to it??

 

[Tasha]

Just basic important things like you should never put formula in first then add water, the tin does say this but it doesn't explain why (then there would not be enough water per scoop of formula which can be pretty dangerous), and how important that is. How long you should keep formula for after its been opened Or like between having Naomi-Mae and Kaysie Blossom the guidelines changed, when N-M was born you could make them all up once a day, when KB was born this had changed but no one told me, when you have had more than one child you don't get to go to parenting class again so I didn't hear it there either, and the reason for the change was that it had been discovered that bacteria could get in the milk made in advance. These things are not about promotion, they are about protecting babies (because all the things I mention could make the child ill) and therefore really should be talked about.

 

[Tasha]

Jasmak it is different in the UK. Formula companies are not allowed to promote FF either, so there are no coupons, samples and they give very little in the way of information (from what I have received)

 

[JASMAK]

Jasmak it is different in the UK. Formula companies are not allowed to promote FF either, so there are no coupons, samples and they give very little in the way of information (from what I have received)

ahhhhh...okay! That makes sense now! There is just so much info here, it is spilling out of my mailbox everyday, samples are sent ALL the time, coupons everywhere, and emails sent daily! No wonder some people feel like they need more info...I think in some of these threads, we all tend to forget that there is so much difference depending on where people live.

 

[Laura2919]

You can get samples of formula from baby shows. I got a sample but I didnt need it as my girls were early they had breastmilk for 8 days and then had to change to a high vitamin content formula. I have also had £1 off vouchers for SMA but that was a yr plus formula so maybe thats different.

As for the power loss and stuff I suppose we dont think of it cos in the UK thats really unlikely to happen, like the whole country! Lol. Might be a road or two or even a little area but not a whole country.

Who is talking about promoting it? Nobody, its about giving parents the right information, thats not promoting! Yes its on tins, the internet and leaflets if you sign up to all the formula's websites but why when you go to your HV can she not just hand you a leaflet about breastfeeding and a leaflet about formula. Its not promoting its helping a parent make the right choice. If a parent is adamant she dont want to breasfeed but doesnt know all the facts about formula it could be dangerous to the child in many ways, too many scoops, how to keep bottles when they are made up.

When my niece was born she was FF and they told her to make up all the bottles with the formula and store them in the fridge that was 2005, in 2006 my best mate had her daughter and she was told to make them up and not add formula and add it when baby wanted a bottle and in 2009 when I had my girls I was told to make them up as I go. That just shows why parents need more info.

Just to say though I never knew HV couldnt discuss it as my HV was amazing and never forced the issue of breastfeeding

 

[leighbaby]

I don't think you can say that water polltuion or electricial failure is 'unlikely' to happen. Many areas suffer from parasites in the water on a regular basis - which is why those areas have lots of chemicals and detailed filtering systems. And power failure happens quite often! It might not be country wide, but, to be fair, it doesn't have to be far fetching to affect people. Have you even considered a terrist attack on a major power provider? and just like the US...we ARE at risk of natural disasters. If you chose to do something, you need to have your eyes open to the consequences and not bury your head in the sand/be ignorant!

 

[Blah11]

We had no electricity for 24 hours last weekend and it was HELL. I was actually thinking at the time 'thank god i dont need to make bottles during the night'. obv if I was FF I'd go live with my mum.

 

[Laura2919]

I don't think you can say that water polltuion or electricial failure is 'unlikely' to happen. Many areas suffer from parasites in the water on a regular basis - which is why those areas have lots of chemicals and detailed filtering systems. And power failure happens quite often! It might not be country wide, but, to be fair, it doesn't have to be far fetching to affect people. Have you even considered a terrist attack on a major power provider? and just like the US...we ARE at risk of natural disasters. If you chose to do something, you need to have your eyes open to the consequences and not bury your head in the sand/be ignorant!

Look at my post again. I said unlikely to happen to the WHOLE country at the same time.

So everyone should breastfeed because we are at risk of a natural disaster.

I am not burying my head in the sand. I am at risk of being run over by a bus but it doesnt stop me crossing the road!

 

[Laura2919]

We had no electricity for 24 hours last weekend and it was HELL. I was actually thinking at the time 'thank god i dont need to make bottles during the night'. obv if I was FF I'd go live with my mum.

Like I said it doesnt happen to the whole country at once.

 

[Tasha]

I always had about 10 cartons of formula in case of emergencies, when they were little that would do about 20 bottles, so roughly 3 days + and when they were bigger 10 bottles but then they werent having as many bottles a day, so it would give me enough time to sort out some more formula, as my uncle works for the company who make the formula I used this wouldnt be too hard for me, no matter what the circumstances as he was forever picking me up some

 

[Tasha]

I mean it would do 20 bottles going on the guidelines back then and also if it were a water problem, obviously not if electricity power wasnt there

 

[Laura2919]

I always had about 10 cartons of formula in case of emergencies, when they were little that would do about 20 bottles, so roughly 3 days + and when they were bigger 10 bottles but then they werent having as many bottles a day, so it would give me enough time to sort out some more formula, as my uncle works for the company who make the formula I used this wouldnt be too hard for me, no matter what the circumstances as he was forever picking me up some

Oh yeah, I never thought about cartons! Lol.

 

[summer rain]

I do not think that the NHS could ever promote a particular brand of formula or bottle as there is no doubt that the other companies would sue. FF is big business afterall.

Sometimes I just think that the NHS can never win. People seem to be never happy with what they do. No matter what treatmens or advice there is available it never seems to be enough for some people. I do wonder what happened in the 70s where lots of Mums, like mine and MIL, used formula because they saw it as a step for feminism and meant they were not tied to their baby? There was no internet for info so I presume they just read the instructions and got on with it or asked family for advice? Serious question, I don't know.

As a BFer it seems pretty simple to me that with formula you read the information about the brands and then make it up according to instructions. Is that really not the cae? They certainly said in my NHS ante-natal classes not to make up bottles in advance etc so it is simply not true that there is a blanket ban across the UK about talking about FF.

this is completely true; health care professionals are not supposed to be biased towards one brand of anything anyway, even medicines they tend to have to prescribe a generic version which could be made by one of twenty manufacturers. As it happens many HCPs do tell mums to buy a particular brand of formula or push one brand of formula as being superior over another or 'closest to breastmilk', this is mainly aptamil but occasionally they push other brands as well. Formula companies are still able to promote their products via the back door; until recently first stage formula ads were still allowed in midwifery/nursing/HV journals. While its illegal to directly pay HCPs to promote a formula; some of them get around this by doing seminars on topics of health concern and the formula company will sponsor it and make claims about their product heavily throughout the seminar; or they run competitions for HCPs to win large sums of money or vouchers.

 

[summer rain]

not everyones got access to the internet though and to be fair i just dont see what the harm is in giving people a leaflet on formula feeding if thats what you want to do. If youve already decided BF's not for you then why
Its not promoting it in anyway its giving the facts for people who want and need them. It can be really dangerous making formula up incorrect and even though there's instructions on the back of the box which to be fair do the job but the WHO guidelines give in depth info on how to safely and correctly premake feeds, store them how to feed when out and about etc..

Its in the birth to five book itself and I am sure I remember the bounty books you get in the bounty packs telling how to make up formula, even with my youngest. In fact the bounty packs have been banned from some hospitals in Lancashire for being a bit too promotional of FF xx