Refreshing talk today with HV's regarding BFing

I think its unfair to push formula feeding into the background. Its not just for parents who struggle its for parents who dont wish to breastfeed whatever their reasons may be, why should they be forced to only take advice about breastfeeding. Its a persons choice what they choose and I believe they should know all the facts about both.

Everyone who has ever carried a child knows about breastfeeding, its down to them whether they breastfeed or formula feed. Nobody whether you BF or FF should force their decision by ramming information down their throat.

I've always stuck by it and I will continue to is that breast is only best if it works for mother and baby and if mother is comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding then thats great but if she wants to Formula Feed who are we to say the information is not there. Whats so wrong with having your own mind?

I really don't think this is true; there are still many areas in the UK where BF rates are so low that most women have never seen or heard of anyone BF IRL; and the ignorance about BF and how it works is astounding.
 
I don't understand why the word promoting keeps coming up. no one is talking about promoting formula just about giving people thr basic how's and why's
 
I don't understand why the word promoting keeps coming up. no one is talking about promoting formula just about giving people thr basic how's and why's

which where I live; is information that is not only freely available when asked but in some cases is actively pushed by HCPs operating within the NHS, it is individual trusts that have certain policies; not the whole NHS xx
 
It surprises me that leaflets or info re formula feeding aren't handed out - given the high numbers of Mothers who FF I think it's daft. Having a baby can be overwhelming, esp for first time parents who genuinely might need a little help/confidence boost. All that happens is people look online/ask people anyway, which is potentially more 'dangerous' if the wrong info is handed out.

IMO it's very far fetched to suggest seeing a leaflet about FF is going to convince a mother to FF! In fact it could have the opposite effect.....there's a lot of faffing involved with cleaning/steralising/making up bottles!!
 
Well so far this pregnancy I dont think Ive been asked how I will be feeding baby, however I have not been given any leaflets about breastfeeding or bottle feeding.
 
I think its unfair to push formula feeding into the background. Its not just for parents who struggle its for parents who dont wish to breastfeed whatever their reasons may be, why should they be forced to only take advice about breastfeeding. Its a persons choice what they choose and I believe they should know all the facts about both.

Everyone who has ever carried a child knows about breastfeeding, its down to them whether they breastfeed or formula feed. Nobody whether you BF or FF should force their decision by ramming information down their throat.

I've always stuck by it and I will continue to is that breast is only best if it works for mother and baby and if mother is comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding then thats great but if she wants to Formula Feed who are we to say the information is not there. Whats so wrong with having your own mind?

I really don't think this is true; there are still many areas in the UK where BF rates are so low that most women have never seen or heard of anyone BF IRL; and the ignorance about BF and how it works is astounding.

What I meant was everyone knows about breastfeeding as in when your pregnant you know your breasts are going to leak and that can be used to feed a baby, not all the information but they know what breastfeeding is.
 
I don't understand why the word promoting keeps coming up. no one is talking about promoting formula just about giving people thr basic how's and why's

Exactly, I said this in a previous post. I dont see it as promoting if breastfeeding isnt working for the mum.
 
I think its unfair to push formula feeding into the background. Its not just for parents who struggle its for parents who dont wish to breastfeed whatever their reasons may be, why should they be forced to only take advice about breastfeeding. Its a persons choice what they choose and I believe they should know all the facts about both.

Everyone who has ever carried a child knows about breastfeeding, its down to them whether they breastfeed or formula feed. Nobody whether you BF or FF should force their decision by ramming information down their throat.

I've always stuck by it and I will continue to is that breast is only best if it works for mother and baby and if mother is comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding then thats great but if she wants to Formula Feed who are we to say the information is not there. Whats so wrong with having your own mind?

I really don't think this is true; there are still many areas in the UK where BF rates are so low that most women have never seen or heard of anyone BF IRL; and the ignorance about BF and how it works is astounding.

What I meant was everyone knows about breastfeeding as in when your pregnant you know your breasts are going to leak and that can be used to feed a baby, not all the information but they know what breastfeeding is.

Unless you live under a rock, same applies for formula and bottle feeding so im unsure where you're going with this?
 
I think its appalling HCPs are censored in giving basic information to mothers who FF. In no way is explaining how to make up a bottle, how to clean/sterilise etc is 'promotion'...its education on a choice that has already been made. I believe people who think about FF and then change their mind to BF do so because of the BF information they are given, not because FF info explains what a pain in the butt it is (I really dont think it is) or how 'bad it can be' (what does that even mean anyway? FF is safe when given CORRECTLY which is what is important about giving the information necessary rather than hiding it away like a dirty little secret).

I never ever contemplated FF when I was pregnant. I was excited about BFing and couldnt wait to start. I certainly did not have anything against FF though and even bought 6 cartons of Aptamil just in case.

I battled with BF so much despite my emergency section and the piss-poor postnatal care and breastfeeding 'support' (yeah right) in my hospital. However my baby had to be readmitted on day 3, the day after I was discharged with supposedly 'established breastfeeding' because she had lost so much weight and was jaundiced. The 24 hours between discharge and admission were hell, she wouldnt latch because no-one had shown me how to (even though I'd read all the info on how you're supposed to), no-one had even observed me trying to feed Alice. I accessed as much help as I could (National Breast Feeding Helpline, LLL etc).

When she was readmitted, I had a nurse forcing my nipple into my baby's mouth for an hour. That was the worst hour of my life, Alice was screaming her head off with this nurse who was supposedly trained in BF support madhandling her and my excrutiatingly painful breast and both DH and I were crying along wth our baby. I was put on a pump and left after they realised Alice wouldnt latch. Noone gave me any further BF support during that admission. We had to top up with ready made formula as I couldnt pump enough to sustain her. Ive never felt so exhausted, low and distraught. I was 'failing' through no fault of my own. I was failed by a NHS who are happy to post breastfeeding posters on a wall but dont bother to properly train their staff to give the correct BF support to new mothers. That's where information is sorely needed. BF is bloody difficult and mothers need PROPER support to help it along, not just a poxy leaflet.

So when I got home, I was having to give formula top ups along with still trying my best to express. I tried accessing help again for people to come and sort out our latch issues. But all I was told was to go to the drop in BF clinic 5 miles away the week afterward (we were discharged on a friday afternoon, typical). Noone would come out to help me.

I still persisted with EBM and trying to latch Alice on, who kept screaming and screaming every time we tried. Eventually, she even refused my EBM.

Because I'd never planned to FF (although had steriliser & bottles in because I hoped to express at some point), I didnt have a scooby doo about how the hell to make up a bottle. I was exhausted after a week of no sleep, an emergency c section and the horrendous hospital readmission. I could barely remember my own name, so trying to decipher steriliser instructions and formula instruction were a big task! I couldnt even drive to the supermarket to get the formula thanks to the C sec! Thank goodness for my mother, who took my DH to the shops and told us how to make a bottle up.

Perhaps, if I had just had a bit more info about FF, I would have been more confident in how to make the bottles up etc, things would have been easier when we got home.

So remember ladies, not everyone is as fortunate as to be able to BF and continue and that is largely down to the lack of support for BF. You may say then that the money should be pumped into more BF support rather than this ridiculous concept that informing ladies about FF is 'promoting' it. But at the end of the day the very existence of FF means BF will never be the 100% choice of every mum and why on earth should mums like myself who have to quit BF due to no fault of their own suffer from lack of information. Also why should mums who choose to FF from the off for whatever reason have to suffer from restricted information. It isnt fair. In fact, it is discriminatory and prejudiced. Im pretty sure the majority of mums know breast is best...but it doesnt always work out.

I wish to God I had succeeded with BFing and have struggled to deal with the fact I couldnt do something that was so important to me. But FF has saved my sanity, helped me bond with my baby after a traumatic labour and birth and my LO is thriving which is ALL that matters to me.
 
I think its unfair to push formula feeding into the background. Its not just for parents who struggle its for parents who dont wish to breastfeed whatever their reasons may be, why should they be forced to only take advice about breastfeeding. Its a persons choice what they choose and I believe they should know all the facts about both.

Everyone who has ever carried a child knows about breastfeeding, its down to them whether they breastfeed or formula feed. Nobody whether you BF or FF should force their decision by ramming information down their throat.

I've always stuck by it and I will continue to is that breast is only best if it works for mother and baby and if mother is comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding then thats great but if she wants to Formula Feed who are we to say the information is not there. Whats so wrong with having your own mind?

I really don't think this is true; there are still many areas in the UK where BF rates are so low that most women have never seen or heard of anyone BF IRL; and the ignorance about BF and how it works is astounding.

What I meant was everyone knows about breastfeeding as in when your pregnant you know your breasts are going to leak and that can be used to feed a baby, not all the information but they know what breastfeeding is.

Unless you live under a rock, same applies for formula and bottle feeding so im unsure where you're going with this?

Because breastfeeding doesnt require sterilising, doesnt require making up a bottle, doesnt require having to keep the formula until a certain time and how to make up bottles.. Now maybe you might see where I am going with this :wacko:
There are a lot of things about formula feeding that parents might not know.
 
I think its unfair to push formula feeding into the background. Its not just for parents who struggle its for parents who dont wish to breastfeed whatever their reasons may be, why should they be forced to only take advice about breastfeeding. Its a persons choice what they choose and I believe they should know all the facts about both.

Everyone who has ever carried a child knows about breastfeeding, its down to them whether they breastfeed or formula feed. Nobody whether you BF or FF should force their decision by ramming information down their throat.

I've always stuck by it and I will continue to is that breast is only best if it works for mother and baby and if mother is comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding then thats great but if she wants to Formula Feed who are we to say the information is not there. Whats so wrong with having your own mind?

I really don't think this is true; there are still many areas in the UK where BF rates are so low that most women have never seen or heard of anyone BF IRL; and the ignorance about BF and how it works is astounding.

What I meant was everyone knows about breastfeeding as in when your pregnant you know your breasts are going to leak and that can be used to feed a baby, not all the information but they know what breastfeeding is.

Unless you live under a rock, same applies for formula and bottle feeding so im unsure where you're going with this?

Because breastfeeding doesnt require sterilising, doesnt require making up a bottle, doesnt require having to keep the formula until a certain time and how to make up bottles.. Now maybe you might see where I am going with this :wacko:
There are a lot of things about formula feeding that parents might not know.

Yeah cos breastfeeding is very easy, just whip your newborn on your boob and thats it :shrug: No, still dont see where your going.
 
i think to all those who keep saying "just read the tin/steriliser instructions" that would be like saying "just look at a picture of the correct latch" and you'll be able to breastfeed...

Please tell me that someone who says theres enough information out there on leaflets for FF has never ONCE misinterpreted instructions they've read?!

mrsPOP is the perfect example of how a new mum has been through alot and needed support for how to BF AND FF but neither were there for her.

I have been told that with this pregnancy that midwives will only visit me ONCE after the birth (at my house) and from then on in i'm expected to go to my local hospital. thank god i drive because i'd need to take 2 buses to get there which with a baby a few days old seems like craziness and if i was having issues breastfeeding which is just when i'd need some rest and support then i'd have to haul myself across to this hospital.

There is not enough support for BF and not enough information out there for FFer's to be able to feel like they can ask questions if they have them.
 
I don't think it's the same, I really don't.

'put 2 scoops and Xamount of mls of water' is easy to interpret.

If someone is having latching issues, they have to be SHOWN how to do it.

idk, ive never heard of someone having to give up formula feeding and go onto breastfeeding cos it was too difficult/confusing/bad latch etc Besides, how to make and sterilise a bottle is pretty samey across the board (amounts will differ) but every single BF relationship is different.
 
I remember ringing my mum because I did not know how much or how offten I should feed kyle or how long I could if allowed store it it..

I think this is turning more into a FF vs BF.. Both have problems women will have problems with both so I think its very rude for a BF'r to just say read the instructions on the tin, yet argue the case when a FF'r says well look at the pictures and info on latch easy!

Both ways may not explain enough on how to do it, Both "groups" should be shown how to do it correctly for the best intrests of the child, SOD this whole "promoting" lark just show both women how to do it so babies dont end up sick from not enough breastmilk from bad latch or badly made/stored formula!

Kyle had latching problems due to tongue-tie, after being man handled for a day before they noticed he had a problem, before hand they where just saying it was all me I was doing it wrong when infact he could not feed, We got the tongue-tie cut and was told the BF lady would ring me, she did she said she would come out and help and never did. I expressed for a while then moved on to formula.
 
I don't think it's the same, I really don't.

'put 2 scoops and Xamount of mls of water' is easy to interpret.

If someone is having latching issues, they have to be SHOWN how to do it.

idk, ive never heard of someone having to give up formula feeding and go onto breastfeeding cos it was too difficult/confusing/bad latch etc Besides, how to make and sterilise a bottle is pretty samey across the board (amounts will differ) but every single BF relationship is different.

what it sounds like you're saying is that you refuse to believe that there could be a situation where a FFer could need some assistance as its so easy to do...
 
I don't think it's the same, I really don't.

'put 2 scoops and Xamount of mls of water' is easy to interpret.

If someone is having latching issues, they have to be SHOWN how to do it.

idk, ive never heard of someone having to give up formula feeding and go onto breastfeeding cos it was too difficult/confusing/bad latch etc Besides, how to make and sterilise a bottle is pretty samey across the board (amounts will differ) but every single BF relationship is different.

what it sounds like you're saying is that you refuse to believe that there could be a situation where a FFer could need some assistance as its so easy to do...

Well no, i don't think that. But it's not rocket science :shrug:
 
I remember ringing my mum because I did not know how much or how offten I should feed kyle or how long I could if allowed store it it..

I think this is turning more into a FF vs BF.. Both have problems women will have problems with both so I think its very rude for a BF'r to just say read the instructions on the tin, yet argue the case when a FF'r says well look at the pictures and info on latch easy!

Both ways may not explain enough on how to do it, Both "groups" should be shown how to do it correctly for the best intrests of the child, SOD this whole "promoting" lark just show both women how to do it so babies dont end up sick from not enough breastmilk from bad latch or badly made/stored formula!

Kyle had latching problems due to tongue-tie, after being man handled for a day before they noticed he had a problem, before hand they where just saying it was all me I was doing it wrong when infact he could not feed, We got the tongue-tie cut and was told the BF lady would ring me, she did she said she would come out and help and never did. I expressed for a while then moved on to formula.

If every breast and every baby had the same shaped mouth then yes, a picture of a perfect latch would be great and fine.
 
A lot of women who formula feed really just don't understand what may seem like basic instructions to others. Very simple plain language along with simple diagrams/pictures would make things more accessible - some women don't speak/read English, some have reading disabilities, and some just don't "get it" for whatever reason, either poor reading comprehension or whatever. "Accessible" doesn't mean "it's here", it means "it's here - and it's understandable". It should be written so basic that a child could understand. That NHS link provided isn't really at that level.
 
I remember ringing my mum because I did not know how much or how offten I should feed kyle or how long I could if allowed store it it..

I think this is turning more into a FF vs BF.. Both have problems women will have problems with both so I think its very rude for a BF'r to just say read the instructions on the tin, yet argue the case when a FF'r says well look at the pictures and info on latch easy!

Both ways may not explain enough on how to do it, Both "groups" should be shown how to do it correctly for the best intrests of the child, SOD this whole "promoting" lark just show both women how to do it so babies dont end up sick from not enough breastmilk from bad latch or badly made/stored formula!

Kyle had latching problems due to tongue-tie, after being man handled for a day before they noticed he had a problem, before hand they where just saying it was all me I was doing it wrong when infact he could not feed, We got the tongue-tie cut and was told the BF lady would ring me, she did she said she would come out and help and never did. I expressed for a while then moved on to formula.

If every breast and every baby had the same shaped mouth then yes, a picture of a perfect latch would be great and fine.

Yup no amount of pictures or booked helped me and kyle. But I think we need to stop thinking of the adults and trying to make one more normal than the other and just purely think of the childs health.

Yes breastmilk is best and formula will never ever be as good with what it has it in.. But breastmilk and formula can both also cause illness if the parents dont know how to feed properly. A infant could die/become very sick from lack of food being breastfed if the infant cannot latch, a formula fed infant could die/become very sick from formula made up wrong, stored wrong or even if they have certain problems such as being lactose intollarent(sp?)..


End of the day aslong as the baby is fed and healthy I dont care if the food comes froms a bottle or a boob, I will try to Bf my daughter I have my breastpump ready and bottles if we have problems again, but I can say I would not be purely expressing for long its not a "nice" thing to do every 2hours to keep supply etc
 

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