Risking a gender debate...

[miraclemomma]

Ok, so I was just reading an "open letter" directed at a woman who made comment about a 3 year old boy in a dress at the bus stop. Everyone commenting on the article was fully in support of the mum who allowed her boy to go out fully made up in a dress. While I would never comment or make a rude remark (I wouldn't want to upset anybody's child or make them uncomfortable) I can't help thinking I'm not ok with it. I don't know why particularly. If my sons wanted to dress up at nursery or at home and play with my things that's one thing but I wouldn't specifically buy girl things for my boys. The argument that they don't understand gender is difficult as I think it's my job to teach them gender. But if I had a daughter that wanted to be batman I'm not sure I'd have the same issue! Just wondered if people could offer (non aggressive/as friendly as possible) opinion on this? Really no judgement, I just don't think I'd do it!

 

[alibaba24]

Maybe it's fear of judgement from others your worried about ?

 

[miraclemomma]

No I don't think it is. I considered that but I'm not easily embarassed. Maybe if my boys strongly expressed a desire i'd change my mind? It's not a fear he'd be gay or have gender dismorphia as the only part of that that would bother me is the struggle that he would have growing up?! I don't know. I just wondered if other mothers have issue with it! I'm such an open minded person I've surprised myself?

 

[malia]

I can't really understand why you wouldn't let a little boy wear a dress outside of home, from your above post (no judgement whatsoever, I'm just curious). I think it's wonderful that society is moving towards children being able to express themselves without adults imposing prejudice or judgement on them. I honestly think that many objections to boys in dresses have their roots in homophobia (again, I'm not saying yours does at all - basing this on my own experience)
I understand that people wouldn't want their child to be picked on, but if we all taught our children that there was nothing wrong with wearing dresses or any other clothes that are apparently gender specific, this wouldn't happen.
I don't think children do need to be taught their gender. I think they should be who they want to be and wear what they want to wear. I don't why we would want to give children something to worry about by telling them that they aren't allowed to wear certain things.
Would not allowing a little boy to wear dresses, because he is a boy, not perhaps lead to him being judgemental towards other boys who do not dress conventionally?

 

[miraclemomma]

I'd really hope it wouldn't! I will say he's never asked me to wear a dress full stop. He has occasionally pretended to wear my makeup which I have never objected to. This is all very theoretical. I teach him that everyone is different, I'm infuriated by toys being separated in to boys and girls categories. So I'm all very confused with myself as to why I feel if struggle with it! Sorry for the randomness of all this, but currently sat breastfeeding and got to thinking...

 

[RaspberryK]

"Girl things"?
Why is anything gendered at all?
What makes it for girls or for boys?

 

[malia]

"Girl things"?
Why is anything gendered at all?
What makes it for girls or for boys?

Exactly.

 

[miraclemomma]

Ok, but it is gendered isn't it. Heels, dresses, make up - girl things! Cars, trucks, building toys - boy things. This isn't me saying it, this is you go in a store and all the "girl things" are pink and sparkly and pretty, and the boy things are blue and rugged! Maybe that's the problem! Maybe it's a marketing thing! Lego for example (for the record I don't agree with this at all but...) girls Lego is pink and purple blocks and you get a limited Lego career choice of nurse, fashion designer or apparently professional shopper! Boys have a much wider range of careers such as superhero, knight in shining armour! I think if I'm honest it's because I'm raising my boys to be like their dad (who I obviously love enormously) - and would I if he wore makeup and a dress?! Probably not! Like I said, my kids happiness is of he utmost importance so maybe if they asked me I would feel differently!

 

[jessmke]

Why (and how!) would you teach your child what gender they are? That is just something they are, not something that need to be taught. Would you argue that transgender people are transgender because their parents didn't teach them what gender they are 'supposed' to be?

If I had a boy I would have no problem with him wearing a dress in public.

As far as toys that are for specifically for boys or girls, they are only gendered if you choose to only buy those specific toys for the gender they are marketed towards. If you just walk your child through the isles instead of directing them towards the toys specific for their gender I'm sure many boys would pick out dolls and pink items, and girls would pick out cars and building blocks (I sure did when I was little).

And implying that allowing a little boy to wear a dress means he's going to grow up to be a cross dresser is absurd! You may do your best to raise your boys to be like their dad and they still grow up to be be cross dressers or gay, and on the flip side a little boy who is allowed to wear a dress may very likely grow up to be the manliest man there is.

 

[jodilee6]

I don't think I'd let my boys leave the house in a dress either

I have no issue with them dressing up and DS1 has quite a say in his wardrobe that includes a my little pony that did come from the 'girls' section however personally I think a dress would be taking it too far. But then I could never see him asking as he's such a climber/jumper it would just get in his way!

I'm all for children showing their individually, however I do think that as parents we need to teach them to chose appropriate clothes for the situation. Ie I'd stear DS1 towards a smart shirt for a formal event and guide him with shorts/trousers with the ever changing weather at the moment and for me personally I'd never know a time when it would be appropriate for him to leave in a dress.

I'd never judge a boy with long hair/in a dress, I did however mistake a boy for a girl (very quick glance trying to diffuse a situation at a playgroup) and the mother became very hostile towards me, if you're going to allow your boy/girl to go out dressed gender neutral then I don't think you can become abusive with people if/when they get the gender wrong

 

[LoraLoo]

Op I understand where you're coming from. I have a mix of girls and boys and they dress up in alsorts, the boys play with dolls and the girls play with cars, but Id not take my boys shopping in a princess fancy dress costume.
Why? I suppose Id want to protect him from people like that lady, poking fun at him. Whether we like it or not, it's not the norm where I live (cumbria) for men to wear dresses. We have a very very small ethnic minority population, so men are usually seen in trousers, the men that wear skirts and dresses ARE transvestites here. And that's absolutely fine by me.
I think as parents you do what you think it's best for your child.

 

[miraclemomma]

I didn't in any way imply that him wearing a dress now will make him in to a cross dresser or gay! I specifically said it wasn't a fear of that being the case! I don't think it has any bearing on how he is in the future and if he turned out to be gay, transsexual of a cross dresser that's fine. That would be an inherent part of who he is and I love him for everything he is! Stubborn, cheeky and enormously intelligent! and I don't give gender lessons - I'm not sure how I think I teach that! But some things are gender specific! Toilets for example?! There is no way around the fact that toilets, occasionally changing rooms are gender specific. Some schools are gender specific! I was asking a general question and asking for opinions, not putting my parenting skills (I have two very happy, very healthy, well rounded little boys) in front of a jury to be torn down! I asked people for opinions and I asked people to be friendly xxx

 

[miraclemomma]

Thank you LoraLoo! I've grown up with a rugby team who are all incredibly secure with their masculinity, wearing whatever they choose! I think I just don't see the need to confuse him! Xx

 

[love.peace]

I let all my children choose their clothing regardless of their gender. Equally with toys we have anything from dolls to cars and all inbetween. I teach my children to love the person within and not judge from the outside. I do feel the best way is to lead by example so surely only allowing certain clothes for my children would be giving mixed messaged. Children love to role play and have fun. They are just exploring. The world would be a much better place if people would live and let live.

 

[love.peace]

Equally if my husband chose to wear a dress or skirt then I'm cool with that. I really do not see an issue at all.

 

[LoraLoo]

And that's fine ^^^ but it's also fine if a parent doesn't want her boy to dress up as a princess outside. Different strokes for different folks 😃

 

[twobecome3]

i dont think you can completely avoid discussing gender as they need to learn which toilet, etc. we usually go for the family rooms for changing but tyere have been a few times where ive had to stop her following kids into the boys washroom.although most of the kid toilets at groups etc. are nonspecific. she still mixes up him/ her alot ill correct her to an extent and then leave it, to me its not a big deal but i have noticed other parents get pretty fussy about it. i think its fine to decide what clothes u are buying your kid. i dont buy dresses as i just dont find them practical. theones we have been gifted are OTT poufy things that have been relegated to the playroom for dressup, if she wanted to wear one out it would likely be a no as 9/10 places we would be going it would be in the way

 

[.Mrs.B.]

The only reason I wouldn't want my son to wear a dress out would be because of what people might say to him. However much we are open to it society is definately not ready and children do get nasty remarks for all sorts of things and it's that I'd want to protect him from.

 

[CaptainMummy]

I dont have boys, So I cant really comment... But I highly doubt I would allow it if I were to ever have a son.

One thing... Why do people think dresses get in the way? I have two extremely adventurous toddlers, who climb and jump and run and a dress has never hindered them!

 

[LoraLoo]

I found dresses a psin at the crawling stage, they'd get caught x