Sleep Advice

[Layla]

Im really struggleing with Coby and his sleeping patterns, i just dont know what else to do with him.

Charlie and Ethan never gave me any trouble with there sleeping, at 7pm every night they would go to bed and sleep untill 7am but Coby is a stuborn little sod and wont do that atall!

We did start getting him in to a rotuine where we took him up to bed about 9 and stayed with him till he fell asleep, but now he refuses this and screams his head off, Charlie and Ethan have school so i dont want them to be woken, so i give in and bring Coby down stairs, his bedtime is getting later and later...last night he fell asleep at 11! I normaly go to bed at 10 lol

During the night he is very unsettled too, he crys alot and then eventualy comes in to bed with us, as soon as he does, he sleeps perfectly! We always wait till he is asleep then put him back in to his bed coz i dont like him being in with us atall.

HIs day time naps are not going well anymore either, he normaly sleepts from about 12 to 2 or 3 but now he falls asleep at anytime (no set time anymore) and its only for an hour at the most.

Help guys, i dont know what to do with him, i know he is getting his finaly set of back teeth so it might be that, but im really stumped, i know i should be more firm with him but its so hard, he is such a determind little kid, he knows what he wants and he wont stop till he gets his own way, we tend to give in to get one quiet, which is prob wrong.

Anyone else had this problem? with the baby coming i can only see it getting worse, what can i do?

Thanks

x

 

[Lucy]

Hi Layla

I really hope I don't jinx it now but for the last few months Olivia has been a lot better and usually goes from 7pm to 6.30 (sometimes 5.30am and sometimes 7.30am).
So I'm no expert from my advice would be; once Coby is in his bed I wouldn't let him downstairs again. You could try the put up put down method if controlled crying isn't your thing. Do Ethan and Charlie still go to their Nans on a Friday night? If they do I would start this on a Friday night then you have two nights where you don't have to worry about the kids getting up for School and hopefully by the Sunday night Coby will understand it's bedtime!
When Olivia is put to bed she wont always go straight to sleep but she'll chatter away and knows it's time for bed.

I think it's a circle with Coby, his daytime naps are short because he's not getting a full nights sleep and she used to be quite restless in the night when she wasn't getting a good sleep too.

Do you still do a bedtime routine?

 

[Layla]

HI LUcy,

The friday night thing is a good idea, i didnt think of that. Charlie and Ethan do still go to there nans for the night.

Our bedtime rotuine went out teh window a little while back, since i have started college again Coby wont settle untill im home, im gone 2 nights a week and Jase really struggles with him, when i get home he want sto be with me for a while before i take him upstairs, he used to go to sleep for me but the past few nights he just crys and runs about, he wont stay in his bed and points to go down stairs, he is a nightmare!

x

 

[bek74]

Layla, please don't get offended by what I am going to say, you asked for advice so I am just giving you mine.

Now I will start with, Your being to soft, you don't have any set routine and your inconsistent. Coby will continue along this path because you allow him, because you give in and there are no consequences. You are rewarding his negative behaviour by allowing him to come back down and be with you.

My youngest is very stubborn and like you I found it easier in the begining to give in, because I didn't want him waking up his older brothers and my husband who did shift work.

We sat down and had a family meeting and discussed the matter. We also sat David ( my youngest) down and told him the new bedtime rules, and what will happen if they are broken. We did this during the day and we discussed these rules on and off through out the day. I had a toddler gate put up at his door ( David would run out of his room). I would put him to bed and I would let him carry on for a good 20min, then I would go up, talk with him and put him back to bed. Then we would allow him to carry on for about 30min ( the times got longer and longer) and the first few nights were hard, I think we did this till near 1am, but I didn't give in, I made a rule and stuck with it. Also with the baby gate up David couldn't come into my room through out the night, and if he woke, I would go and see him and then go straight back to bed. With in a few days of doing this the tantrums got shorter and shorter and over the next few weeks they stopped all together.

We also used a sticker chart for when he went to bed with out any problems, if he did all 7nights he got a reward. Each night he did well, we made such a HUGE fuss over him, we cuddled, kissed went totally nuts with attention, he just loved it and couldn't wait to get more the next morning.

You are really going to have to get this under control now and although it is heart breaking listening to our babies scream and carry on, but it needs to be done, you need a decent sleep, so does your family and especially Coby, he needs more sleep.

I hopw I haven't offended you, I am just giving you my opinion. I have 3 sons so I do understand. I wish you all the best.
Remeber what ever decission you go with, it is soooooooooooo important you stick with it, no matter how hard.

 

[Amanda]

Sorry if I'm hijacking your post Layla, but while Bek is in an advice-giving mood, I wanted to ask for her help with Charlie!

Charlie's now 13 months and has never really been a great sleeper, but lately he seems to have got into a horrible routine and I have no idea how to break it.

For the past fortnight, he's waking in the night for a bottle! At 13 months old! He's genuinly hungry. It's always between 1am and 2.30am that he wakes, he has a bottle, and then 50% of the time will go straight back sleep, and then the other 50% he comes in bed with us until he's gone then I take him back to his cot. I know that we've made a rod for our own back as he never goes bed awake. It's not that we rock him to sleep or anything like that, he just falls sleep when he has his bedtime bottle. The routine is great, and it's the same every night. He has a snack in a bowl at about 5.45pm (raisins, banana, biscuit, stuff like this) while he's playing, then it's bathtime at 6.15. DH gets him undressed while I run the bath, then I bath him while he clears up, then I dress him and take him down to Daddy for his bottle. Every single night he will fall sleep while drinking his milk and then Daddy carries him to bed. And he's really out for the count - you could hang him upside down and he wouldn't wake!

Now I know that this is where we have gone wrong because he won't go sleep on his own now, he expects to be cuddled. BUT, saying that, he is put down for a nap awake every day at nursery and they never have a problem with him!

I have a teenager who is studying for GCSE's as well, so really can't let him scream all night, but we could try to make some changes at the weekends.

Any ideas please!!!!! [-o<

 

[Layla]

Bek, thanks for your advice hun, you havent affended me, i know im far to soft with him.

Im seroiusly not makeing excuses here but i couldnt get a gate and lock him in, there is one at teh top of the stairs so he cant fall down but apart from that i dont like putting barriers up in the house. I cant leave him cry either, im such a wuss, we tried that and he gets so upset that he cant breath right and then i feel so guilty coz he sobs.

I like teh star chart idea, altho im not sure he would understnad that at this age, i will have to look in to it.

I need to be firm and get him to understand its bed time, i think i will have to stay in his room and persist through the crying and wnating to go down stairs, i dont mind him crying if im there with him coz then he knows hes not alone. I just dont fancy wasting over an hour every night doing it when i could be spending it with Jase.

x

 

[Lucy]

Layla, I am a wuss at hearing Olivia cry too so know what you mean. Up until a few months ago I was the only one that could put Olivia to bed, if I was going out I would have to wait until she was in bed, I was still bfing her before bed too so it was not only a task to get someone else to settle her but to also wean her off! So it was over to DH and he took charge of the bed time routine. He bathed her whilst i was downstairs making dinner then I came up to say goodnight then DH read her a story by her bed then put her in her cot. she cried so he went back in picked her up and cuddled her then put her down, she cried, he picked her up.... you get the idea. He did this until she fell asleep but at no point was she taken away from just by her cot. I think this helped to re-inforce that it's bed time now. She then would wake up in the night and DH just went through and did the same thing. Once she seemed to settle for DH at night I then started putting her to bed sometimes and now she's fine with either of us putting her down.

Is Coby in a cot or a bed? If he's in a bed and keeps getting out then apply the same method of just picking him up and putting him back in bed, they do that on Supernanny in lots of situations and after time the child understands that they're not going to go anywhere except back to that spot!


Amanda - Not sure if you have tried this but perhaps give Charlie some slowly digested foods for his dinner like sweet potato etc, should keep him fuller for longer. If he wakes in the night just offer him water and lots of cuddles, after a couple of nights he should learn he wont get milk in the night.

Isn't it easier to give advice about other people's sleep issues etc!

 

[Amanda]

Thanks Lucy, that does make sense to give him the water. He eats at the nursery so unfortunately I have no control over what he has, but they are pretty good. Today is cheese and potato pie and baked beans. We've only recently started giving him the snack when he gets home so I'm hoping that will help as well.

It's right what you say about easier to give advise though. It's just so much easier to give Charlie a bottle at 2am when I know it will settle him, and we've both got to be up for work at 6am!

 

[Lucy]

totally agree Amanda, you do what gets you by!

 

[Kina]

Amanda, Ella used to wake a lot in the night for milk. Now I've stopped her from having a bottle and she only has a cup before bed (no milk in bed at night, only a beaker in the day) she's been a lot better and only wakes if she's cold.
Layla when Ella's back teeth came through she was a NIGHTMARE for sleeping. We carried on with the bath, story, bed and milk routine we had going at that time (she was about 14 months) and if she woke up in pain in the night we'd try to settle her, but if we couldn't then she'd have calpol or medised as she was hurting.
If you feel that he is tired in the day and needs to nap then try putting him down with a beaker of milk, closed curtains and a couple of books and leaving him, that generally works for madam (she doesn't cry though and if she did then I would go up to her as it generally means she wont sleep).

 

[Hels]

I think you are going to hve to get tough Layla. Id start letting Jase put him to bed too, and stick to a certain time, and do certain things each night.

Im really lucky, In that Charlie will ask to go to bed, usually around 7 to 7.30, I think that has just been due to a routine, and if she cried when I put her to bed, Id go in her room and lay her down, and say night night, after that I d go in and just lay her down and not talk, she soon got in to the hang of it.
Unfortunatley she wakes every now and then usually 3 or 4 nights in a row at around 3 am and I can hear her shouting 'Milk Mummy' 'Pleeease Mummy'
I will get up and give her it, as I think as it only happens every now and then, I assume its is her growing. She is so dinky and such a milk monster, I couldnt deny her it.

 

[bek74]

Layla, I understand. I also "Hate" listening to my children cry, it breaks my heart, but raising 3 boys and all with in 18mths, 2yrs apart, I needed my sleep, they needed their sleep and Hubby and I needed time. Without that balance you are heading for an unhappy household. I don't agree with shutting doors in my house ( unless boys are now studing) that is why I used the gate, 1. to keep David out of his brothers rooms so he couldn't put anything into his mouth and 2. so he couldn't hop into bed with us in the middle of the night.
Layla, I hope find a solution soon, you really need this under control before your next bub is due, or you will be so tired. Again what ever you do, make sure your consistant. All the very best mate.

Amanda, yes bedtime bottles in a very big no no. In saying that I did do it with my 1st son. To break this habbit we made his evening bottle before bed, and it was something he had with his dad, so it was special time.
Hubby would sit in the lounge with him and give him his bottle, he would talk and give his feet a tickle ( didn't want him falling alseep) etc etc and when the bottle was finished, they would both get up go to the bathroom and hubby would brush his teeth and My son would pretend to brush his ( good to start a routine now) with his tooth brush. Then hubby would put him to bed,he would call me I would come in and give kisses and then leave, while hubby sat at the end of the bed and read him a short story.
As to the midnight bottle, I would probably just go in, see if he is ok and comfort him, if he was still crying for a bottle, I would offer just water. Once I got the bedtime under control with no bottles, I found the wake ups in the middle of the night got less and less. I also have done the, Ok honey lay down, mummy will be back and then taken my time and they have fallen back to sleep.

1st things first though, you need to change the way he goes to bed, most times that makes a huge difference to how they sleep, and how they can put themselves back to sleep if they wake.

Hope I helped a little

 

[Layla]

last night i got back from college and Coby was waiting for me, i spent 5 mins cuddling him then thought, right im going to be tough, he has to go to bed.

So i took him upstairs and put him in bed then sat on teh chair (we have a chair in his room for us) he screamed his head off for ages but i ignored him, justsat there and watched, he got out of bed so i picked him up, said bedtime and put him back....made him worse, then he sat on his bed crying with his arms reached out to me to ug him or pick him up, again i ignored this which made him worse still, in the end he got so hot that he was sick and then he couldnt breath right coz he was so stressed.

At that point i took him down stairs, i couldnt carry it on, as soon as we got down stairs he clung to Jase and wouldnt come anywhere near me, even if i talked to him he would start to cry

Then we watched that bringing up baby on channel 4+1 coz i had missed it trying to get him to sleep and it made me feel even worse! i had left Coby to cry, even tho i was in the same room and then he wouldnt come near me, he didnt trust me and i had done that to him

Jase finaly cuddled him to sleep and took him to bed, he did stay in his bed all night last night which was great! and today he seems ok with me, but i sitll feel terrible and i wont be doing it again, im not sure what i will do yet, i will figure something out, even if i wait till hes old enought o understand, but for now i cant let him cry like that again.

x

 

[Lucy]

Hi Layla

Sorry you had a bad time last night.

I think the key here is to start a routine, last night he was up with Jase then you came home then took him to bed but sat there in his room - he was probably confused at what message you were giving him. If I was sitting in Olivia's room she would want a cuddle too! We put her to bed and come out of the room, if she cries (she doesn't any more but used to) then I went back in and cuddled her to calm her then put her back to bed and said night night then came out - I kept repeating this until she went to sleep but she never got really distressed because I kept going back in and cuddling her to calm her then put straight back in the cot.

It's entirely up to you how you tackle this and it might well sort itself out before you need to do anything.

 

[Amanda]

Oh Layla, sounds like you had a horrible night hun.

I spoke to hubbie last night and he then admitted that if Charlie doesn't fall sleep on him with his bottle, he'll put his dummy in and cuddle him until he does!!!! I didn't know this as I am always in the kitchen sorting the dinner out!

So tonight, the fun starts. I'm going to go to Tesco's after work and buy some sort of in-betweenie bottle, if that makes sense. Not a bottle, but not really a beaker. Just something that he can have his bedtime milk in. He feeds himself with a spoon, drinks his water from a beaker, but point-blank refuses to hold his bottle, so if I buy something new, that may help. Wish me luck!

 

[bek74]

Layla Hun, you can't sit in his room and allow him to cry like that, he wouldn't understand what your doing, that would have stressed him out totally.
You need to put him to bed, give cuddles etc etc and then walk out, allow him to cry for 5min ( to start with so it is easier on you and him) then go straight back in and cuddle him some more, slowly allow the time on his longer and longer even if it is by a 1min each time.
Honey I am so sorry you had such a hard time, I do feel your mistake was sitting in the room with him, you may as well have just sat on his bed and cuddled him.

Good luck babe.


Amanda that sounds like a great idea, if you can change the way Charlie goes to bed, it should help, and tell hubbie is was very naughty doing that, lol. Good luck let us know how it goes. xoxox

 

[Layla]

it dosnt really make much diffrence if im in the room or not, he still crys and screams and gets himself in to a state, right or wrong im not doing it, i think its cruel to walk away and lave him crying, id rather be with him to reasure him, and it upsets me to watch/see him get like it.

x

 

[bek74]

it dosnt really make much diffrence if im in the room or not, he still crys and screams and gets himself in to a state, right or wrong im not doing it, i think its cruel to walk away and lave him crying, id rather be with him to reasure him, and it upsets me to watch/see him get like it.

x

Honey that is your call, I really do hope you can get things sorted before your next bub is due, other wise your going to be totally exhausted.

In my defense, I don't feel as though I was cruel to my children in anyway ( I luv them more than life). I never let them scream to the point that they couldn't breath, I did controlled crying and when I heard them getting really worked up, I always went in and sat with them and cuddled them. I never just let them scream and turn my back on them and not return.

All I can say is again, what ever method suits you best, then use it hun, but make sure your always consistant, other wise you will be sending mixed signals.

Again good luck and I hope you find a solution that works for you and Coby.

 

[Layla]

hun i didnt mean you were cruel just that i think its cruel, i know what works for some mums doesnt work for another, its total personal choice so i didnt mean to offend you.

He has a bunk bed and we are going to take the top bunk off tonight to make his bed more open to see if that helps, i know i need to sort something out but i just cant do the crying thing, im to weak.

Hopefuly once he has his back teeth he will settle down a bit

x

 

[Lucy]

Layla just out of curiousity did Coby used to sleep better in his Cot? Did you move to a bed because he could climb out of the cot?