Sleep Sense Support Group!

[TennisGal]

P - I love your schemes!!! I think your plan regarding having an afternoon party is a wise one, we would have done the same - but some family members (my Granny!) were coming from quite a way, so we wanted to ensure they had a decent amount of time to stay and enjoy. We also only had close friends and family, as I didn't have the guts to do lots and lots of people just yet!

Lizzie's room is well out of sound travel, but she knew what was going on and was NOT napping!

Regarding your plan, if it works - let me know! Lizzie is napping less at the mo, and wanting to go to sleep earlier. I don't want to come in on the days I work, just BF and her go to sleep...I love the hour DH, Lizzie and I all have together. I also know DH would be gutted to miss his evening time with the little lady!

Lizzie is SO variable with her wake-up times, we got the odd lie of 7:30, but really - it's anything between 5:40 - 7. I know that anything before 6 is hard - especially now it's dark.

Sending Thomas a big 11 month

 

[julchen_79]

Hello Ladies, I have been following the sleep sense program for the past 4 days.

I used to nurse Sam to sleep for the first 6 months and he frequently would awake at night where I eventually always took him into our bed and he when was waking or stirring would feed him back to sleep. The result was he would just stirr too much for us to get proper sleep so we decided we needed to end this. (It used to work quite well for the first months)

He goes to bed at night around 7pm and has not been crying longer than 45min. If he gets too upset I pick him up and soothe him until his eyelids get heavy and then I put him down. I have seen some great improvement for bedtime.

Overnight however has been hell. He "wakes" pretty much every hour and although most of the times he is not fully up he scream on no end. I am so exhausted! Does anyone have any advice/ experience on how to deal with this? I don't think I can do it much longer, but I don't want to give up here as we have come quite a ways.

 

[history_girls]

Welcome julchen! Hang on in there - day four is still quiet early but you are past the worst at bedtime. Our summary is that it took about 5 days for crying to reduce to about 5 mins to go to sleep but it took 14 days for me to be able to put her down and leave the room - i stayed until she was asleep sat next to her. We had frequent night waking too. Are you waiting 5 - 10 mins before you go in? If it was moaning or crying I would wait - if she was screaming I wouldn't. 80% she put herself back. So that is worth a try? Can anyone else go into him in the night? Even though I FF my lo would play me up in the night but not her daddy so much - i think she knew she wouldn't get very far with him. I guess your LO still wants a feed in the night? You could try a feed only after x amount of hours? We did have 90 min screams on occassion in the middle of the night but in the long term two weeks of not a lot of sleep is worth the months of good sleep! Keep in touch x

TG - Lovely pressies!!!!! Thanks for the nap tip - we have swimming in the morning in Brighton so I;m hoping she will sleep the 40 mins there and back and that will see her through. Good on Lizzie for insisting she stay at her party!

Polaris - Sounds good. Phoebe went the opposite way but that is sort of what I wanted. She used to sleep until 7am but with work I need her up at 6.30 so I would bang about to wake her up in the morning earlier - it did work and bedtime went from 7pm to 6.30pm. However, Fibby has been asleep in bed by 6.15 tonight and a few other nights this week! She wants her 12 hours....

Here is a sleep question - tonight my little monster wanted to go to bed at 5.30. I obviously want to spend time with her but in that mood better off in bed. I didn't let her go until 6pm bath then bottle and bed. Would you have put her to bed at 5.30 or do you think she would have been up with the lark? I think one day I will just do it to see.

Oh and the darker mornings makes life even harder.........never mind

 

[TennisGal]

HG - I'd probably push for the routine to start at 6 - although, I'd also be interested to see what happens. The earlier Lizbuth has gone to bed is 6:15, that was after a day of NO napping and very OTT behaviour! I'd somehow think if she went to bed early, she'd be up early...but it doesn't always seem to work like that with her, so it could well be you'd get over 12 hours!!

Hi Julchen! I agree with HG - you and your LO are doing v. well for day 4 I'd similarly wait a few minutes to see if it's the 'I'm in a bad mood because I've just woken up' or 'I really want you here NOW' cry. Lizzie did both, and it took me a wee while to realise that sometimes I was actually fully waking her when I picked her up, as she was just having a bit of a grump. Do keep coming in here - the advice and support is invaluable.

WELL, my piglet has had a lovely day - we've played with everything, bounced and danced! Her teeth are actually quite sharp, and she's been investigating them with interest She's eaten lots today, too - and we had a very interesting poo incident. I'll spare you the details, but it was a king-kong effort. She played a proper game with me today, went to give me a kiss - then shook her head - then as I pretended to look shocked...she gave me the kiss! The collapsed into a fit of giggles!! I got very excited, and all emotional again

She's not napped well today, though...I don't know if it's because she's still overexcited...she wanted to be on my knee all the time, and only had shortish naps. Maybe the teeth?

How is everyone? How is Otto, Fibby? Feeling better?

 

[polaris]

Hi everyone.

Julchen - welcome. Hang on in there, there's no point giving up when you have come so far. What way are you responding to him when he wakes during the night? I would definitely advise trying to wait for the ten minutes before responding, especially if he's not really properly awake. That gives him a chance to learn to put himself back to sleep and then hopefully the number of wakings should decrease. I agree that he probably still wants a feed during the night at six months, I know Dana recommends cold turkey on night feeds after six months but Thomas definitely wasn't ready to drop his last night feed at that age (finally dropped it of his own accord at nine and a half months). You could maybe try to only feed him once over the course of the night and the other times try to resettle him. If possible get hubby on board for resettling as they definitely play up more for us mummies in my experience.

Historygirls - wow 5.30 is super early to go to bed. But everything that I have read says that if they are tired on a particular day (due to short naps or lots of excitement or whatever) then you should just let them go to bed early and that it shouldn't lead to them waking up earlier than normal. I have never dared to try this though. Definitely keep us informed as to what happens if you do try it.

TennisGal - Yes! There is something so horrible about the number 5 on the clock face in the mornings! I can handle anything after 6 but anything before that is not good.

Poppy - hope Elliot is feeling a bit better today.

Well I started my new plan of shifting Thomas's daily routine and it went very smoothly so far, he literally just did everything a half an hour later than normal. We will have to wait and see if he wakes up a half an hour later tomorrow morning though! I have been doing a bit of online research on the 2 to 1 nap transition (mainly on the baby whisperer forum) and apparently it is pretty common for sleep to go a bit haywire at about the 10 to 11 month mark, with babies either starting to refuse naps or else taking good naps but waking up earlier and earlier. They are both signs of the beginning of the transition to a single nap. The advice for early wakings was to shorten the morning nap, which I was already doing, and also to try to stretch the awake time before the morning nap, so I might try that too. There seems to be two different strategies for managing the transition to one nap, either gradually shortening the morning nap by 15 minutes until eventually it is just a 15 minute catnap which can then be dropped altogether, or else gradually stretching the awake time before the morning nap until eventually LO is not going down for the nap until about midday.

 

[history_girls]

I think I will just get brave on day and do the mega early to bed - although I don't want it to be a habit. I don't pick her up until 5 and 30 mins is just not enough for me - I need more!

TG -sounds like teeth to me! fibby's have taken 3 weeks to get 3mm long I don't what they are up too. CM said she has had bright red cheeks all day and a similar attitude.

Polaris - good on Thomas!

Trying to design birthday invites....not going well

 

[TennisGal]

oooh, what design?

we've got the red cheeks - very Aunt Sally-esque!

 

[history_girls]

I've always designed my own stationary stuff e.g. new baby cards, Baptism invites etc... even did all my wedding invitations etc...

but Fibby's first birthday has me stumped. I want to include a photo but can't make it look anything but cheesy. I'm looking to do a postcard sized invite with a photo and some cool design on the front and details on the back.

OH not being helpful - he is trying to redesign the Kitchen and keeps dragging me out there to test theories.

 

[TennisGal]

How lovely - and what a nice keepsake for everyone. The pic of Fibby on your avatar is a real heart-melter, and you can see so much character in her face, too!

 

[history_girls]

She is such a cutie - I know I;m her mum and I would say that but she just has these eyes that melt your heart people always say in shops how beautiful she is. Don't know where that came from! Her temprement however is entirely mine! She is wilful like me, stubborn and can be down right unreasonable!!!! but always a sucker for a bit of fun and a sing song!!!!

 

[TennisGal]

oh, and I've been forcing DH to look at coats...when he is much more excited by anything prefixed with 'i' (phone, pad, pod.) Hhahahahahahaha! His patience with 'but this one is workish, and not for forest walks' comments is wearing thin!

 

[TennisGal]

She sounds lovely, HG - and she's is gorgeous. Lizzie gets stopped, too - and although I am biased, I'd stop! I think she's a heart-melter...she looks just like her Daddy!! Her hair, smile and eyes make me envious and proud all at the same time Nothing like scarecrow Mama!

I think she has my smile - and she's got my sense of naughtiness...but definitely DHs energy! I was much more of a slug as a baby (apparently, and that's how my own Mama phrased it! SLUG!)

I like how they know their own mind, now. Lizzie shakes her head with a 'nonononononono' when she's asked to do even basic things - like have her face wiped!!

I think we're all very lucky, as every single baby on this thread is a heartmelter of epic proportion

 

[Poppy7]

OH not being helpful - he is trying to redesign the Kitchen and keeps dragging me out there to test theories.

I'm a kitchen designer ....I would be happy to give input if needed lol!

Ladies, thank you all so much for asking how Otto is. He is still very, very bunged up. Last night was much better though. He woke up at 10.30pm crying (he didn't even have the effort to stand up and cry, he was just laying there ). We bought him downstairs to the living room as that was the only thing that would calm him down. OH put him back up to bed at 11pm and he slept until 6.50am I was shocked to say the least!!! This is the best he has slept in a along time, even when he wasn't poorly. Last night we used a cloth nappy for the first time. OH isn't completely taken with the idea. I said Otto slept so well becuase of the cloth....OH wasn't convinced

Today he has napped for England. I had to wake him after 1 hour and 15 minutes from his morning nap as we had swimming and then this afternoon he slept for 1 hour and 45 minutes!

Goodness knows what tonight brings. he hasn't woken.....*yet*!!

TG - at the poo incident. We had one the other day...let's just say I was most disgusted with Otto...I won't go in to detail How cute that she is playing games with you. Teething really unsettled Elliott's naps. Mind you her party sounded fab, she's probably still buzzing form that!

HG - Tricky one. 5.30pm is ssooo early but like you, I would be afraid to try it in case she woke up at an insane time of the morning. If you get brave enough to try it, do report back TG is right, your avatar pic of her is gorgeous. She's going to be a heartbreaker.

P - Thank you so much for the info about naps. I have been wondering (okay worrying) about this. Otto seems no where near even ready to contemplate dropping any naps or making them shorter. Sometimes I do worry this is why his nightimte sleep isn't great. Mind you, it's not like when he wakes he wants to play as he is still very much tired. in secret, I'm scared to change anything right now as he's sleeping so much better in the day.

Welcome Julchen :wave: Hang in there. Now you have started just keep on perservering. Elliott was waking every 40 minutes to an hour at one point during the night due to his dummy. We soon ditched that and then he became relaint upon the breast SS helped us massively and you will get to know what crys mean business (ie. hunger) and what crys are your LO struggling to self settle.

Right I'm off to bed...need to get some shuteye as I don't know what's instore from Ottsy tonight and also have training tomorrow.

Night gorgeous ladies.xx

 

[julchen_79]

Welcome julchen! Hang on in there - day four is still quiet early but you are past the worst at bedtime. Our summary is that it took about 5 days for crying to reduce to about 5 mins to go to sleep but it took 14 days for me to be able to put her down and leave the room - i stayed until she was asleep sat next to her. We had frequent night waking too. Are you waiting 5 - 10 mins before you go in? If it was moaning or crying I would wait - if she was screaming I wouldn't. 80% she put herself back. So that is worth a try? Can anyone else go into him in the night? Even though I FF my lo would play me up in the night but not her daddy so much - i think she knew she wouldn't get very far with him. I guess your LO still wants a feed in the night? You could try a feed only after x amount of hours? We did have 90 min screams on occassion in the middle of the night but in the long term two weeks of not a lot of sleep is worth the months of good sleep! Keep in touch x

I am trying to wait for a while but his room is right beside ours and even when I close both doors, OH will wake up. He gets extremely grumpy if he does not sleep well. But I already told him like it or not he might just have to suck it up for a few days. I fully agree with you thinking long term in this matter.

Hi Julchen! I agree with HG - you and your LO are doing v. well for day 4 I'd similarly wait a few minutes to see if it's the 'I'm in a bad mood because I've just woken up' or 'I really want you here NOW' cry. Lizzie did both, and it took me a wee while to realise that sometimes I was actually fully waking her when I picked her up, as she was just having a bit of a grump. Do keep coming in here - the advice and support is invaluable.

The minute I would pick him up he would be quiet and sleep so it is obviously what he wants, silly boy. He is not screaming when he wakes up, I think its just because I am not there when he stirrs and he realizes it so he starts crying. My own fault for pacifing him with boobie when we co-slept. Trapped right into that trap.

Hi everyone.

Julchen - welcome. Hang on in there, there's no point giving up when you have come so far. What way are you responding to him when he wakes during the night? I would definitely advise trying to wait for the ten minutes before responding, especially if he's not really properly awake. That gives him a chance to learn to put himself back to sleep and then hopefully the number of wakings should decrease. I agree that he probably still wants a feed during the night at six months, I know Dana recommends cold turkey on night feeds after six months but Thomas definitely wasn't ready to drop his last night feed at that age (finally dropped it of his own accord at nine and a half months). You could maybe try to only feed him once over the course of the night and the other times try to resettle him. If possible get hubby on board for resettling as they definitely play up more for us mummies in my experience.

I think I will continue to feed him once a night as I believe going fully without might be a bit early for him. Tonight he went to bed at 6.40pm (he was super tired so I let him go a bit earlier than his 7pm) by 7.20pm he was out. So it took almost as long as last night,but way less crying. More shouting and a little playing with his aquarium. This is also the first night, where at no point I picked him up. Just reassured until he was quiet and then left the room again.

I think we are on a good road...the night wakings hopefully get better once he has a bit more practise falling asleep by himself. I don't mind having to get up at night, just every hour is ridiculous.

 

[julchen_79]

Poppy, did not mean to ignore your advice. You must have posted at the same time I was posting.

This last night was not too bad. He still got up about 7 times but he was settled a lot easier and I made sure to only pick him up the two times that I actually fed him.

 

[history_girls]

Right sooooo tired today I've sat down with a , ordered a take away and plan to veg out whilst marking year 9 key word tests.

My little Fibby was up at 5am this morning ladies and would not go back. I even tried snuggles in bed with me until she decided crawling underneath the duvet to the bottom of the bed was much more fun. So going to bed at 6 is toooo early. So made her wait until 6.30 today. She has been bullying a little boy at the CM - grabbed his jumper, stole his toy and then pushed him out the way - cue little boy cries, Phoebe not bothered at all finds it all amusing

TG - Fibby's Godmother is getting her a red duffle coat for her birthday, she checked it out with me first to check I liked it and it is gorgeous. My OH loves all things 'I' and spends hours putting films onto ipods.

Poppy - glad to here Otto is getting there, his cold must have been soooo bad. Gone to cloth? I've always been tempted but was so overwhelmed with LO when she was born I never managed it! A kitchen designer - my OH will kidnap you and never let you leave We live in a 1930s semit and out Kitchen is titchy with a capital T. It has a stupid bay window on the back, wood pannels instead of tiles and the back door in the wrong place. We are going to put a upvc lean too on the side for most of the white goods but we just can't seem to get any decent work top space!!!

Julchen - Great on not picking him up all night I felt like I had achieved if I managed that. He will soon get the idea that he isn't getting cuddles etc.. and just drop back off. How was the inital going to bed for you?
Hope tonight goes well!

 

[julchen_79]

Julchen - Great on not picking him up all night I felt like I had achieved if I managed that. He will soon get the idea that he isn't getting cuddles etc.. and just drop back off. How was the inital going to bed for you?
Hope tonight goes well!

The inital going to bed was not bad at all. I put him down a bit earlier as he was very tired rubbing eyes etc. so instead of 7pm we made it 30 mins earlier. It took until about 7.20pm but way less crying involved this time, more shouting and talking to his glowworm.

 

[history_girls]

Brill - sounds like he is getting the idea. I think it is true that if they are too tired it makes bedtime more difficult. Lets hope he self settles tonight!

 

[polaris]

Hi everyone.

HG - oh no, bad news that you are joining me in the (way too) early morning club. 5 a.m. is no fun. It never works bringing Thomas into bed with me either, he just thinks it is a game and does lots of mountaineering over the duvet and pillows and headboard and then tries to pull our noses and ears off until I give in and get him up. I don't even bother anymore as it just wakes OH up as well as me.

Thomas still woke up at 5.30 this morning even though he went to bed a half an hour later. I'm hoping that maybe it will just take him a couple of days to readjust. I'm back with 7 p.m. bedtimes for the moment anyway, I think 6.30 was just too early as he only very rarely sleeps longer than 11 hours, which only brings him up to 5.30 if he goes to bed at 6.30. My heart just sinks when I look at the clock and it says 5.XX.

Julchen - sounds like you are making great progress, well done!! It is such hard work at the beginning but it really will pay off! I know I am always moaning about this and that with Thomas's sleep but really he is a total star and sleeps very well most of the time (compared to how he used to be anyway).

Poppy - poor Otto, I really hope he is over the worst of it now. I really hate it when they are not well, you feel so helpless don't you. How exciting switching to cloth, do let us know how you get on, I would love to go cloth for my next baby.

 

[Poppy7]

Thanks for the advice HG - I will make a mental note myself not to put Elliott to bed extremely early. 5am does not sound like fun . Oh dear, little Fibby a bully? I can't believe that, she has the face of an angel! Elliott is going through a hitting phase and it tends to be faces that he goes for. He's not being nasty obviously but I am trying so hard to stop him as it's not nice. Today he stayed in the creche again for 3 hours whilst I attended my peer supporter training and they said he did hit a few of the children They think he tends to do it more for their attention. When he did do it they moved him away from them and sat him with toys instead. I so hope he gets the idea soon. Yes, i am *trying* cloth. Like you I wanted to do it from the start but had enough to worry/think about!! I am not completely convinced yet but I LOVE the idea. Ooohhh you're kitchen sounds like a challenge, I like those! If you want me to have a look send me the floor plans...I love a challenge!

Thanks Polaris. Otto is starting to feel much better but his cold is now developing in to a nasty cough and a sore throat. He did surprisingly well last night considering the little soldier. To top it all off though I am coming down with it We are trying the bumgenius nappies. They have not leaked over night (I used two boosters) and seem to fit very well. The only thing is it did give Otto a bit of a red bottom as they don't keep the moisture off the skin like a disposable but you can buy special liners ot help with that. The actual nappy dried very quickly after I washed it but the inserts took a bit longer and I had to put them in the tumble drier on a low heat. Kind of defeats the object of trying to save the environment I though when I had to use the drier! I must say I completely take my hat off to you for getting up that earlier every day. Elliott does the same as Thomas if we bring him in to bed with us. He just won't settle these days. If he does it takes a good 45 minutes and then he ends up sleeping on me, across me, with his bum in my face etc etc

Julchen - WELL DONE Your LO will soon get the idea. we saw improvements after the third day and then things just got better and better. Do keep us updated.

Last night Elliott went to bed and didn't wake until 4.30am for a feed . This is the best he has done in a long, long time. He then woke for the day at just gone 7am. Today was ny bf peer supporter training day and he stayed in the creche provided again for 3 hours. He had such a wonderful time and even had his lunch with them today. They only had a few tears from Otto when he kept trying to grab hold of the children who were walking to help him walk around and they didn't want him hanging off their clothes Apparently my friend saw him pushing a pram too don't tell Daddy I'm so pleased that he is settling with them though and even more so this week considering he hasn't been feeling 100%. Apaprently he loves playing with the other children which I knew he would as he's very sociable.

Well, I'm sat here and my throat is getting worse and my nose is slowly getting even more bunged up Bleurgh, I don't want this nasty bug.