Sleep Sense Support Group!

Just a quickie - I've got some Wagner on (and this time, Wagner the classical - not Wagner the X Factor) and Lizzie is destructing in time to the music!!

How is Otto today, Poppy? Feeling better throughout the day? How is his tum?

HG - how are you making that buggie snuggle? I really like the sound of it!!
 
The buggysnuggle! oh my I'm loving it. I spent two days trawling the net for a pattern to decide to make one myself. I have one with my big silvercross pram but my little pushchair I don't so I'm making a custom one for that and my sister's buggy.

I've cut a sheet up and make a template - now just got to source the right colour fleece and zip etc... which will take a few days to be delievered. Still not found quite the fleece material i want so might try town tomorrow. I made my 2 year old nephew sit in the buggy whilst I pinned around him - he is quite big and I thought it would ensure 'room to grow'. Fibby loved the tape measure and spent a happy half hour treating it like a snake / scarf.

Lizzie - a budding musician - a drummer perhaps?

Fibby was too excited at bedtime to sleep. She stayed up late until 7pm!! to see her daddy who was late home from work in London. But....put herself to sleep within 15minutes from down right screeching for him to go back to sleeping murmours!

Poppy - how is otto?
 
Evening!

Otto is still snuffly, snotty, coughy and phlegmy. He hasn't filled his nappy since his diarrhoea episode this morning so will see what tomorrow brings. I've decided I'm going to give it until Wednesday and if he seems no better I will take him to the Doctors. There seems no point taking him before then (unless he gets worse of course) as they never do anything and he's only bound to catch something else from all the sick people down there! On a plus note he has napped much better today though still wants to be stuck to my side all the time!

HG - Have you tried dropping Fibby's afternoon nap instead? TBH, when the time comes for Otto to go down to one nap I can see him being a morning napper. On the rare occasion our day hasn't gone to plan he has managed on his morning nap alone. Just a thought.

TG - I hope Lizzie didn't destroy too much!! Richard Wagner....that's a bit different to Wagner on X-Factor!

I'm sat here drinking a cappuccino and wishing I had something yummy to eat but sadly I don't. The maltesers are now all gone and I have no other sweet treats. Maybe i can persuade OH to nip out for me ;) ....
 
Poppy - I'm sending you some cyber :munch: chocolate. OH bought a box in with him from work and I was puzzled as he is on a starving blood test in the morning and quizzed him in a 'you've forgotton your appointment' when he was just being nice :blush:

Glad to hear Otto is getting there - our drs never gives me or Fibby anything when poorly except a feeling that I'm neurotic. OH has a different dr who normally sends him away with something :dohh: doesn't help with his man flu issues!

I thought she might do more in the morning - but she will do an hour and she can't stay awake for 7 hours in a row - we will see what tomorrow brings. Lunch with Grandpa :nope: who has the most unfriendly baby house.
 
Poppy - I'm sending you some cyber :munch:

:dance: Thanks!! How nice of your OH! Mine hasn't quite got the hint and thinks he is doing me a favour not going out and getting me some treats :dohh:

With my Dr's it depends who you end up with but generally, unless you are on your last legs you are neurotic and time wasting :shrug: Also the receptionists are just as bad with their "is it urgent for today, does he really need to be seen today...." :grr: At the end of the day though Otto is my precious baby so I don't care what they think. I'll see what tomorrow/Wednesday brings.

It's hard with naps isn't it? My friends always try to plan in advance and I always say "can I tell you on the day?...". The thing is the length of Otto's naps vary from day to day. My friends must think I'm sleep obsessed.....

Good luck at Grandpa's tomorrow. Otto loves destroying my Mum's house but is yet to visit my Grandparents house. It is full of "nick nacks" and would be far too much of a hazardous place to let loose a baby!!!
 
Are all drs receptionists like that? As mine sound very similar to yours!

And thank goodness you said you sometimes say 'can i call on the day' I am so like this re naps. My mum and sister get cross with me as I don't like to commit to plans before the day as i like to see how her sleep goes. I think that they get cross with me for being over-sensitive about it. I had that today with them and i thought that perhaps i was - but glad i'm not the only one.:hugs:

Grandpas house is a nightmare and he is precious about everything. Her granny and her Nanny and Grandad are so chilled and baby friendly it makes my dads so hard!
 
Bleah. I have a Changeling again (for the past week or so) and I want my wee baby boy back. :(

He's fighting naps like there's no tomorrow, only napping 20-30 minutes at a stretch most days, and is a miserable crank in between because he's still tired. He gets shouty and upset when things don't go his way or don't happen within 2 seconds of him deciding they should happen.

The worst part is bedtime has become awful. He screams like he's dying as soon as the light goes out and I go to leave the room. If I stay in the room he just bounces around in his crib, standing up, sitting down, standing up, sitting down, playing and squealing and then getting shouty and starting to cry when he remembers I'm there but ignoring him. He gets so overtired and wants to be picked up, but then cries hysterically anyway, fidgets and gets restless, so I put him down and he cries again wanting to be picked up...

I'm at a loss as to what to do. I can't and won't let him just cry -- obviously different from his unwinding whinge which I don't mind leaving him to. Last night he screamed and carried on for over an hour. Toward the end he got hysterical again so I picked him up and tried to rock and cuddle him which usually works but he was just crying and upset still. I did that for probably at least 10 minutes before getting exasperated and upset and needing a minute to myself, so I put him back in his crib and within 2 seconds of his head hitting the mattress he was out cold and slept until almost 5am. :wacko:

This evening, I tried to put him to bed earlier (within 2 hours of him waking from his last nap, but closer to 6 than 7 which is around when he usually goes down). Everything went fine until I put him down in his crib, said goodnight etc., then went to leave the room. I didn't even get the door closed before he started screaming like he was being tortured. I couldn't go through what I went through last night so ended up just nursing him until he fell asleep (he's also been fussy at the boob so half the time that doesn't even work). Obviously I don't want to make that a habit, but I have no idea what to do right now. :( I'm exhausted emotionally and physically as it's like this all day and night.
 
:hugs: oh HC you poor thing. You must be totally exhausted which will not help anything at all. And the wee monkey! what is he up to?

Right - trying to think of some practical suggestions:
- can you get some time off from the monkey to re-energise you so you can come back with more umph to deal with the day / nights? Maybe just a hair cut or a lie in at the weekend?

- being naughty with day-time naps (i.e. snuggles on the sofa) so you can re-set his sleep so at least days aren't so bad? What is his favourite way to sleep? perhaps some of that to get him back up to good form?

- Is the light a problem? Could you feed him with a night-light on so it is dim and dark and then leave it on? If he is fussing when he feeds he might then not fall asleep whilst feeding in the dim?

- When he screamed for the hour, were you there all the time? Could you try check and leave for 5mins then go back? You could try this for up to 4 attempts then stay after that to reassure you and him?

- 8 months is when Fibby had her massive seperation anxiety issues - for a fortnight I couldn't do anything without her sobbing her heart out. She grew out of it (but lapsing at the moment). I just tried to get her to play on her own with me a foot away, then a metre, then doing something else on the other side of the room then me in another room. They suddenly realise they are their own person and it freaks them i think. This must be what he is doing at night.

- does he have a nunu? Fibby has ele-nu (an elephant with knots in the corners) and Bruno (a teddy now as she is getting bigger we are hoping to get her onto a bigger one). Fibby gets so much comfort from ele-nu at night.

- Teeth?

Sorry for all the suggestions - just thought it might trigger a thought for you! :hugs: hope he behaves tonight!

p.s. Ronan is now a fully signed up member of the diva club for his temperament!
 
Bleah. I have a Changeling again (for the past week or so) and I want my wee baby boy back. :(

He's fighting naps like there's no tomorrow, only napping 20-30 minutes at a stretch most days, and is a miserable crank in between because he's still tired. He gets shouty and upset when things don't go his way or don't happen within 2 seconds of him deciding they should happen.

The worst part is bedtime has become awful. He screams like he's dying as soon as the light goes out and I go to leave the room. If I stay in the room he just bounces around in his crib, standing up, sitting down, standing up, sitting down, playing and squealing and then getting shouty and starting to cry when he remembers I'm there but ignoring him. He gets so overtired and wants to be picked up, but then cries hysterically anyway, fidgets and gets restless, so I put him down and he cries again wanting to be picked up...

I'm at a loss as to what to do. I can't and won't let him just cry -- obviously different from his unwinding whinge which I don't mind leaving him to. Last night he screamed and carried on for over an hour. Toward the end he got hysterical again so I picked him up and tried to rock and cuddle him which usually works but he was just crying and upset still. I did that for probably at least 10 minutes before getting exasperated and upset and needing a minute to myself, so I put him back in his crib and within 2 seconds of his head hitting the mattress he was out cold and slept until almost 5am. :wacko:

This evening, I tried to put him to bed earlier (within 2 hours of him waking from his last nap, but closer to 6 than 7 which is around when he usually goes down). Everything went fine until I put him down in his crib, said goodnight etc., then went to leave the room. I didn't even get the door closed before he started screaming like he was being tortured. I couldn't go through what I went through last night so ended up just nursing him until he fell asleep (he's also been fussy at the boob so half the time that doesn't even work). Obviously I don't want to make that a habit, but I have no idea what to do right now. :( I'm exhausted emotionally and physically as it's like this all day and night.

You could send an email to Sleepsense and ask for advice, or post a question on her facebook page. She's pretty good at answering them.

I'd say it would maybe be worth going back to basics with it and starting again for a few days. The problem is, the longer you stay out of the routine, the harder it is to go back to it. Keep trying with the naps and at bedtime, do whatever method worked for you in the past. He is no doubt, testing your boundaries and it sounds like he is winning. It sounds almost like he is throwing a tantrum when you leave. He needs to know you are in charge though. If he stands up when you put him in the cot, lay him down. And keep doing it until he gets the message that he will give up before you do! Don't engage in any conversation, just repeat whatever phrase it is (e.g it's bedtime now, or time to sleep etc) It will take a bit of work and nerves of steel for a few days but it should sort it in the end. Of course it is up to you if you choose not to leave him to cry, but bear in mind that by giving in to him when he does, he knows exactly how to get his way the next night and the next.

It is such a hard thing to do though!
 
What is it with Wednesdays. Fibby has been a nightmare from start to finish (bed at 6pm!!!!) and all last night. Teeth blinking teeth. But no sign of whites!!

I am totally pooped (sp?). Madam has eaten nothing but 10 blueberries and 2 yoghurts all day. I got to the point of not giving in and getting her blueberries and thought if she is hungry she'll eat. Took no milk at bedime - gone on to cows milk now and Im not sure she likes it at night. So it doesn't bode well - already stirring.

OH has set out for a Fibby bad night kit - chocolate and a trashy mag for when I have to wait the five mins before going in or back in.

Wish us luck......
 
HC :hugs: How are you? How is Ronan? I can definitely say that Lizzie has been through similar stages - normally around milestone time. There have been days where I've literally not been able to put her down. FG and HG have got some fab ideas...has anything helped lil monkey? Definitely recommend seeing if someone can come over, and give you some r&r time. You need and deserve it. MASSIVE :hugs:

HG: :hugs:How is Fibby today? Do you think it's teeth? Lizzie was v.grizzly earlier in the week, and I think we have another two coming through...Hope you had an ok night?

Poppy: :hugs: How is the lovely Otto? Better? Did you go to the docs? (my receptionist is the same, btw, I think it's part of the training to be officious and patronising)

Well, Lizzie was waking up early - but since we've put the heating on timing, her room has stayed a decent temperature (instead of going too cool) and she's back to sleeping til about 6:45-7. We were getting 5:30. DH could then go back to sleep - she'd come in with us - but she'd spend a long time twisting my boobs, nose, hair etc!!

She had a grump earlier this week, and I think teeth are back on the agenda. I've had a hectic couple of days with work...was only supposed to be in Tuesday...went in yesterday morning, too.

We're going to have a quiet and chilled day - lots of :hugs: to all
 
What a night. The little pixie cried from 9.30 until 12.15 last night. It started as whinging but got to full throttle screaming. She wouldn't be left in her cot, wouldn't sleep on me, wouldn't have OH anywhere near her. It is a long time since I had absolutely no clue. Finally she conked out on me and I waited until she was completely asleep, put her down and crept off to bed to discover OH with his cold was snoring, boiling hot etc.... She woke a few more times and up at 7am but back in bed by 9am.

I am totally exhausted today, feel like poo too and have no car as my mum's borrowing it for 4 days. So I guess its pottering around the house and maybe a walk to the shop. Oh and a snooze zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Otto how are you? Ronan are you being good?

TG - i think it is a mixture of teeth and cold and who knows what! She had her jab last week so could be that!
 
Hi all,

Sorry for disappearing after my meltdown the other day. Hubby's best friend from back home in Ireland was in town with his fiance so I had even less time to myself!

:hugs: oh HC you poor thing. You must be totally exhausted which will not help anything at all. And the wee monkey! what is he up to?

Right - trying to think of some practical suggestions:
- can you get some time off from the monkey to re-energise you so you can come back with more umph to deal with the day / nights? Maybe just a hair cut or a lie in at the weekend?
Hubby's been helping when he can. It's just been a hectic week so we're both run ragged at this point. I'm not sure why since he never minded his daddy being there before but just recently with all of this going on he gets hysterically upset if it's not me that goes in to settle him. DH is feeling a little down about that I think even though he won't say it. He's definitely the go to guy for fun time but not so much for comfort at the moment.

- being naughty with day-time naps (i.e. snuggles on the sofa) so you can re-set his sleep so at least days aren't so bad? What is his favourite way to sleep? perhaps some of that to get him back up to good form?
I've tried that but he seems to have a harder time settling for cuddle naps these days and doesn't seem to sleep much longer. It depends though. Some days he will settle just fine and other days he clearly just wants to be put down. I tend to keep cuddle naps to when I just really need him to take a half hour or so kip at an awkward time of day.
- Is the light a problem? Could you feed him with a night-light on so it is dim and dark and then leave it on? If he is fussing when he feeds he might then not fall asleep whilst feeding in the dim?
I have blackout curtains and the room is quite dark during the day and dark at night. We just have a small lamp on during our bedtime routine (enough for me to read to him but little more), and overnight feeds it's just a nightlight. I've tried just using a nightlight for our bedtime routine, I've tried turning it off, and also leaving it on when he's trying to settle in his crib after that but I don't think it makes any difference.

- When he screamed for the hour, were you there all the time? Could you try check and leave for 5mins then go back? You could try this for up to 4 attempts then stay after that to reassure you and him?
I left at first, but every time he saw me if I checked on him he just escalated into hysterical crying that got worse if I then left. Staying didn't help other than he would calm down enough to spend time bouncing around in his crib before his next meltdown. :shrug:

- 8 months is when Fibby had her massive seperation anxiety issues - for a fortnight I couldn't do anything without her sobbing her heart out. She grew out of it (but lapsing at the moment). I just tried to get her to play on her own with me a foot away, then a metre, then doing something else on the other side of the room then me in another room. They suddenly realise they are their own person and it freaks them i think. This must be what he is doing at night.
I think this is definitely part of it. He has his moments during the day where he flips out if I leave without warning or he wants me closer than I am. He is doing surprisingly well though and is happy to spend time playing by himself on the floor too plenty enough, as long as I'm within range.

- does he have a nunu? Fibby has ele-nu (an elephant with knots in the corners) and Bruno (a teddy now as she is getting bigger we are hoping to get her onto a bigger one). Fibby gets so much comfort from ele-nu at night.
Yeah, he has a Cuski that he definitely uses for comfort, as well as a taggie blanket thing and his pooka bear that his daddy insisted he have! His Cuski is with him all the time when he goes to sleep and his blankie and pooka are usually close by but in different parts of his crib. He moves around so much in his sleep and through the night that it helps to have things at different places for him to grab at.

Possibly. He cut the 4 and they're moving down but he's drooling like a fiend again and the rash on his cheeks has flared again but I can't see or feel anything yet.

Sorry for all the suggestions - just thought it might trigger a thought for you! :hugs: hope he behaves tonight!

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've definitely considered them. We've had a couple of decent nights mingled in and less night wakings so I'm hoping that I can focus on getting him to settle in the beginning of the evening again, and find out what the magic equation is for getting him to nap without a fight and for longer than 30 minutes. Speaking of, the only reason I've had a chance to reply now is he's been napping for almost a whole hour now! Woohoo!

p.s. Ronan is now a fully signed up member of the diva club for his temperament!
I'll be looking out for his diva membership card in the mail.

Also, sorry to hear you had a heck of a time with Fibby too. I hope it's gotten better.


You could send an email to Sleepsense and ask for advice, or post a question on her facebook page. She's pretty good at answering them.

I'd say it would maybe be worth going back to basics with it and starting again for a few days. The problem is, the longer you stay out of the routine, the harder it is to go back to it. Keep trying with the naps and at bedtime, do whatever method worked for you in the past. He is no doubt, testing your boundaries and it sounds like he is winning. It sounds almost like he is throwing a tantrum when you leave. He needs to know you are in charge though. If he stands up when you put him in the cot, lay him down. And keep doing it until he gets the message that he will give up before you do! Don't engage in any conversation, just repeat whatever phrase it is (e.g it's bedtime now, or time to sleep etc) It will take a bit of work and nerves of steel for a few days but it should sort it in the end. Of course it is up to you if you choose not to leave him to cry, but bear in mind that by giving in to him when he does, he knows exactly how to get his way the next night and the next.

It is such a hard thing to do though!
I think there's parts we definitely need to go back to the basics on. We started when he was so young though at 7 weeks with pick up/put down that I don't think the same thing will work quite the same at this point so we need to figure out what will work while still remaining comfortable with what we're doing.

I definitely don't want to get into bad habits, but I do think part of what's going on right now is with separation anxiety and leaving him to it just doesn't sit right with me at the moment. If he'll happily go down because we have a cuddle for 5-10 minutes until he's just on the verge of falling asleep saves us both an hour of tears and upset, it's a small enough price to pay since he will still sleep well by and large throughout the night and CAN self settle and settle himself back to sleep when he stirs.

------

TG - See above if you have the fortitude to read through all that! I'm still tired and it's exhausting chasing after him all day, but hey that's what being a mummy is about, right? I don't think he's going to get any less active for a long time yet! I'm lucky I guess because he doesn't need me to constantly be there to entertain and play with him, just as long as I'm generally within eye or earshot of him. He's quite content to putter around and play through his toys and explore until I get in his way and spoil his fun by scooping him up before he manages to tip over the dog's water dish or to turn the volume on daddy's receiver right up so he gets a big surprise next time he turns it on. :haha:

---

Anyway, not much else going on here otherwise. Obviously the monkey is being a right monkey. He's crawling and cruising, and has even done that limbo standing for a second or two thing when he lets go of what he's holding onto before plonking down on his nicely padded by cloth bum!

The weather is getting cold quickly here so our outside walks are far less frequent. We've been going to story/singalong time at one of the local libraries on a Wednesday morning though which gets us out, and we swim at least once a week (usually on Fridays). He loves the water so it's nice to do that with him. I was so impressed with him yesterday at class. He was proper dog paddling with his little arms and legs going trying to get to a little floating boat in the water. Obviously I had my hand under his belly but the boy has no fear! He's all over the place in the bath, too. You really can't take your eyes off him for a second!

Alrighty, I think I've blathered on enough. I may try and get myself a cup of tea before the monkey wakes up. Just my luck I decide not to try and have a wee nap with him when he actually decides to nap for more than a half hour!
 
:hi: guys, wow this thread is still going strong :D
Any newbies or still the same gang here?

Is there anyone who has experince with sleepsense and a toddler in a bed?
 
I am so sorry for neglecting all of my lovely SS friends this week :sadangel:

I have been lurking this week but just haven't had the time to sit down and post properly.

Otto is now on the mend and over the worst of his latest illness. He is just left with an awful cough now. Luckily it isn't causing him too much trouble at night though we did have a few rough nights at the beginning of the week. He is back now going to bed at his usual time and then waking up once a night, usually anytime from 3am onwards but generally around 4/5am. I am really pleased with this and one morning he even slept in until 9am :shock: The clocks going back has confused him slightly and he still got up his usual time which happened to be an hour earlier this morning :dohh:

He has been walking more this week and has days where he fancied trying to walk more than others. Today he has also started doing a red indian impression which is very cute. He has also mastered the art of asking for milk. He hits my chest or uses my hand to hit my chest and makes a funny noise to go with it. Oh, and when he wants milk he isn't joking and will not accept that milk bar is sometimes closed (eg. near dinner time etc...). Another new favourite trick this week is for him to grab your hand and make you do things. He is rather bossy :D

How is everyone else? HC, sorry to hear you are still having trouble with Ronan's sleeping. The other ladies seem to have given you some wonderful advice so nothing I can add there apart from :hugs:

TG......How are you and the gorgeous Lizzie? I will be making cake number 2 this week in preparation for Elliott's birthday. Let's hope it's as succesful as the first!

HG - Did you have a trial run of Grandma putting Fibby to bed? Did it go okay? I have been wondering how you got on.

Arcanegirl :hi: I *think* poloprincess used SS with her little girl who was a toddler. Not sure she was in her own bed though. Hopefully the other ladies have a better memory than me. There are a few newbies here but generally still the original lot going strong :D
 
:cry: oh guys what a week it has been :cry: it has gone rapidly down hill.

To cut a long and boring story of very unhappy Fibby and my own useless doctors short it turns out Fibby and I both have tonsalitis. Fibby was sent away with 'give her ice cream and calpol' on Friday and on saturday the emergency doctor gave me antibiotics. So this morning I took Fibby back to the emergency doctors where she got some antibiotics too.

Yet my little girl is so miserable it breaks my heart :cry: she just woke up screaming and her little voice was so hoarse:nope: and worse of all got to send her to the childminder tomorrow and go to work feeling crappy myself. Money is a horrible thing. She has only eaten tiny amounts of food since tuesday and only if Grandad is on hand to share it with her. I must say my in-laws win awards this week for propping me up and keeping us going. I am very lucky.

Poppy - practice run is on Thursday night providing she gets better. Today she did crawl across her room at bedtime climb up on her cot as if to say 'I want to be in there'. Otto sounds very adorable - great on the walking front and I must admit I quite admire a man who knows what he wants :haha:

Right winge over - off to eat an entire Terries chocolate orange and a nice cup of tea.

:hugs: lovely ladies
 
:hi: Poppy
I did speak to PP but Brooke is still in a cot so slightly diff situation to ours.
Alex is now in a bed and the first 2 weeks went great, he laid down and just chatted away untill he went to sleep. Past 4 nights however he fought and cried and got up. He will cry as soon as he realises were putting him to bed, cried more when we put him in the bed and gets out straightaway.
We have to put him in the bed and swiftly leave the room! He will get out of bed (sometimes not) but will always cry. He never goes longer than 10 mins though, so back to basics weve not had to go back into him yet...
The one change i know we have right now is hes just got 3 back teeth in all at once which are still going...
 
HG, I am so sorry to hear that. You and poor Fibby must be feeling so rotten. Tonsilitis is something that I have never had but my brother and sister get it and it is so painful for them. It's absolutely rotten that you have to go to work tomorrow as well. Is staying at home just for one duvet day compeltely out of the question? It really does sound like you need it.x

Arcanegirl, I wish I could give you some advice with Alex but the "sleeping in a bed" is a bridge we haven't had to cross yet. Seems strange that he has started crying though. I'm assuming he is tired though not over tired when going to bed. These are the main two reasons which make Elliott fight sleep. However, if he is teething as well this can put a huge spanner in the works.x
 
Thanks Poppy - my colleague is on a course and our year 11s have begun their controlled assessment (new coursework stuff) and they only have 5 hours to prepare - 2 of which are tomorrow. I might be able to come home after break if she isn't well or I am poorly. It is just so uncomfortable. But my antibiotics seem to be kicking in!

Hi Arcanegirl!!! I'd be interested to follow you sleep story as a heads up on the future! As poppy said polo_princess is the only one with an older one.
 
Foogirl said to me of an older section in the book which i think ill take a look at, see what it says.
Ill certainly keep you updated on how we go with this new phase.
 

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