Sleep Sense Support Group!

[history_girls]

Mine feeds at 1am like clockwork this week and drains 8oz so I think she still needs it so no sleeping through!

Great morning nap here rubbish afternoon nap - think I left it to long to put her down doh! So back on me just to get her some sleep! That and constipation made her a grot. But a mega poo at bedtime and she went like a light!

Early waking still troubling us

 

[PieMistress]

Ladies, can you tell me exactly what you do with the sleep to wake? Gently wake your LO? How far into the nap? Sorry if it's already been covered...
Argh!

I'd be interested to know a bit more about this too. Kyle just won't nap in his crib for more than 30 mins! Even worse was he wouldn't even nap in his bouncer either today so I've been for 2 long walks with the pram!!

He is now asleep in his cot! He looks so ickle in it! Fingers crossed he sleeps!! He was bashing the sides of his crib and it was rattling every time he kicked his feet.

Baby cinema tomorrow - Alice in Wonderland, wonder how that will go down!

Right 9pm, time for One Born Every Minute!

Sweet Dreams Everybody xxx

 

[flowers04]

Tennisgal - dd would normally nap for 30 mins so i would go in at 20 mins and if she is fast asleep, i.e not moving then i would stroke her face gently until she stirs a bit - but don't wake her up.

the first time i tried it she slept for three hours

i heard somewhere that you need to do it for about a week and then there naps will increase in length without having to 'wake to sleep' anymore

good luck

 

[polaris]

Polaris - ahh that makes sense now - is he still on milk only? have you found that he is waking for a feed earlier when he hasn't had as much in the day?

dd is now on solids and didn't have a good day - didn't like anything i made so im expecting a lot of wakings tonight - we'll see how it goes

Yes he is still just on milk, trying to hold off on weaning till 6 months as I had bad eczema as a child and am paranoid about Thomas getting it. Hard to say whether he's had less or more during the day, he's breast fed so it can be hard to tell how much he is taking. I think he might be starting a bit of a growth spurt to be honest as he seems to be wanting feeding at least every two hours now during the day whereas he was going two and a half or three - so I'm feeding him when he wakes up and then often feeding him again before he goes for a nap! Hope you don't have too bad a night, she's probably still getting most of her nutrition from milk at this stage anyway so hopefully it won't be as bad as you're expecting.

TennisGal - I am no expert on wake to sleep and it only works some of the time for me or as Flowers says it could be just coincidence, it's very hard to tell. What I do is go into him after he's been asleep 30 minutes and just gently touch his face until he moves slightly or his eyelids flutter - you don't want to actually wake them up, just rouse them a little bit out of the deep sleep phase which is then supposed to shift them into the next sleep cycle. The important thing as far as I understand it is timing, you want to do it when LO is still in a deep sleep (motionless and hard to rouse) - if they are already gone into a light sleep then it is too late and you should try a bit earlier the next time. This morning when I tried to do it, it woke him up - I wasn't impressed by that at all - we had to have an emergency walk to extend the nap a bit cos he would be like a demon after just 30 minutes nap!

 

[Cattia]

Well I'm biting the bullet ladies and going to give sleepsense a go! I have read through the book and it seems as though we are already in quite good shape with nightimes as she settles herslef without crying already and for the past two nights has only woken once for a feed, goes straight back down. Naps though, not so good. We are stuck in the short nap cycle, 45 mins is about all we get an an hour is good! I have tired wake to sleep a couple of times but have not got it to work yet. Might try doing it a bit earlier as I think I am leaving it too late. She tends to wake up from her lunchtime nap crying, but with her eyes still closed so she is not fully awake. I know she needs to sleep more, but she just works herslf up more and more as I try to soothe her. Sometimes I can re-settle her by rocking her moses basket (probably a prop!) but this only lasts for about 10 mins. Anyone got any ideas?

 

[Elski]

Morning everyone

Flowers - glad the naps are getting better!

Polaris - I read that in the Baby Whisperer too so you're probably on to a good thing with the different waking times.

PM - baby cinema's great, we've got one here and I went to see Sherlock Holmes, hope you have fun.

Jacs - have the sleep signs returned yet?

Lyre/TG/HG - how are you doing?

Hope everyone else is ok and hello all new peeps!

Well I filled in that online SS thing and got an email but it was all higgeldy piggeldy and some of the answers said "so your baby is less than months" and others "your baby is over 3 months" which didn't fill me with much confidence. OH is up for giving it a go though. Can I just ask you all a question.... I notice that almost everyone here already has bed time sussed and your LO's can self-settle. My LO definitely can't self-settle and PU/PD and shhh/pat do nothing but escalate her crying so I just wonder if I should wait until she can self-settle at night before I try SS or will SS help me to get her to do this?

Ta

 

[polaris]

Hi everyone - how did your nights go?

We had a terrible night! Well - not as bad as our nights used to be but definitely a disimprovement on how they have been recently.

Firstly we had crying again at bedtime - only for about 5 minutes - but he has not been crying at bedtime for ages.
Then he woke for a feed at 11.30 - I was really reluctant to feed him at that time because I was thinking that it would probably not keep him going till morning - maybe I should have tried harder to settle him without feeding him because when I did feed him he was really sleepy and it was difficult to keep him awake to take a proper feed. But OH is entering a music competition today so he really needed a good night's sleep so I was conscious of that.
So then he woke up again at 4 a.m. - he wasn't really crying, just whinging, so I left him to it and he did go back to sleep but it took him about 15-20 minutes I think (I was dozing a bit myself on and off).
Then OH got up at 5 a.m. to prepare for the competition and Thomas obviously woke up and was wide awake and really sounded like he thought it was a great time to get up for the day! So I fed him in the hopes that he might go back to sleep, which he did thankfully go back to sleep until 7 - but I was wide awake by that stage and couldn't get back to sleep at all.
He woke up for the day at 7 - not really interested in his morning feed which is how he used to be when I was feeding him a lot during the night.
I'm hoping that it was just a one-off but I keep thinking that maybe we are hitting the dreaded four month growth spurt/sleep regression thingy.

 

[Elski]

Sympathies, Polaris, I've been awake since 5.30am too

Does anyone know what this 4 month sleep regression thing's about? How long it lasts/what it's down to?

 

[jacs]

Cattia - we were the same with naps, 40mins on the dot, since he was a couple of weeks old. Since using SS that changed on the first day for us. Now he has one or two 40min naps, and one or two 1.5-2hr naps per day!

Elski - Still no sleepy signs!
Evan could not settle himself at all when we started SS. We put him down asleep every time, as we hated the tears! We had crying on and off for half an hour the first time we used SS, and since then, only occasional crying that is very short. Usually, he is silent and just fidgets!
There is a growth spurt at 4 months, which can lead to increased feeds, and therefore more wakenings in the night - the way LO's are when they're younger.

Polaris - hopefully it's just a blib - he may have had a pain or something? I never really noticed a growth spurt with Evan (bad mummy?!), but then we were all over the place with sleep and feeds, so not surprising really! I guess you can only ride it out, and keep things as normal as possible. Maybe try for shorter awake times this morning to catch up?

 

[Elski]

Thanks jacs, I must say I'm DREADING the crying but it's encouraging to know that Evan's crying was only really bad for one night. We have horrid neighbours one side so keeping them awake will be the silver lining

 

[polaris]

Thanks jacs, I must say I'm DREADING the crying but it's encouraging to know that Evan's crying was only really bad for one night. We have horrid neighbours one side so keeping them awake will be the silver lining

That made me giggle.
The crying was nowhere near as bad as I expected either although he still cries almost every time I put him down for a nap. It is generally only for two or three minutes though, I have kind of got used to it to be honest although I would love him to go down for his naps without crying.

 

[polaris]

Does anyone know what this 4 month sleep regression thing's about? How long it lasts/what it's down to?

I don't know really - some people say it is one of the worst growth spurts and that it is often a reason why people decide to wean onto solids because the baby was sleeping through or close to it and then goes back to waking up several times a night for feeds. There is a lot going on developmentally for them at about the 4 month mark so some people say that that can lead to disturbed sleep too.
I'm not sure about how long it lasts - would love to know if anyone knows?

 

[polaris]

Polaris - hopefully it's just a blib - he may have had a pain or something? I never really noticed a growth spurt with Evan (bad mummy?!), but then we were all over the place with sleep and feeds, so not surprising really! I guess you can only ride it out, and keep things as normal as possible. Maybe try for shorter awake times this morning to catch up?

Yeah - for previous growth spurts we never had any sort of routine to be interrupted! If it is a growth spurt then it's not the end of the world if I have to go back to two night feeds for a bit - but I'm still not convinced that he needs them because he wasn't hungry then for his morning feed.

Good suggestion about shorter awake times - he was back to only being able to manage an hour and a half this morning so I put him down for his nap at 8.25 and he's still asleep so hopefully he's going to have a nice long nap now to catch up. I wish I could have a nap too but I'm not able to sleep in the mornings.

 

[jacs]

Ooh, wish I could go back to sleep in the mornings as well Polaris! At weekends we take turns getting up in the morning with Evan. When DH gets up, I lie in for about another hour, then he goes back to bed!!

We've had an unsettled morning. Evan had his usual 40mins then woke. I left him, as he usually goes back to sleep again during his first nap. He did for ten mins then woke, slept for 10mins then woke. No crying, just very awake! Sounds like no big deal, but he NEVER wakes after short stints, so I reckon he's trying to fill his nappy or something.
Going up to get him now - cue one very grumpy baby!!

Elski - that made me laugh too! Sometimes I like the thought of annoying the noisy kids next door!

 

[Elski]

Ooh, wish I could go back to sleep in the mornings as well Polaris! At weekends we take turns getting up in the morning with Evan. When DH gets up, I lie in for about another hour, then he goes back to bed!!

We've had an unsettled morning. Evan had his usual 40mins then woke. I left him, as he usually goes back to sleep again during his first nap. He did for ten mins then woke, slept for 10mins then woke. No crying, just very awake! Sounds like no big deal, but he NEVER wakes after short stints, so I reckon he's trying to fill his nappy or something.
Going up to get him now - cue one very grumpy baby!!

Elski - that made me laugh too! Sometimes I like the thought of annoying the noisy kids next door!

Grumpy babies all round today it seems

Shhhh, don't tell anyone but sometimes, when she's crying, I stand as close to the fireplace as possible as this is where the wall is thinnest and it will be even LOUDER for next door

 

[TennisGal]

Elski, you've given me a good giggle! After our neighbour TOTALLY disrupting our day yesterday, I'm giving you three cheers!

Polaris - on four month growth spurt, we found that it wasn't the most intense feeding spurt (on others, I'd literally be on the sofa all day/every day for a week!) However, her feeds doubled in length and were every three hours (and much more frequent at night)

We did notice, that said, that she was more unsettled during that spurt than some of the others. Still, it literally was only for a few days...It was almost as if she couldn't get comfortable, iykwim? She wanted to be close to us pretty much the whole duration, but like I said, it was only a short spurt.

The six week spurt was the most intense - I think because it coincided with trapped wind, poor DD!

We had a good night - but a very early start! Naps, thus far, haven't been tooooo bad. We managed 45 mins in the cot, which is a record!

I don't think naps will be great today overall, as DD is in a phase where she just wants to stand all the time...and she really tells us off if she isn't standing on us! lol. Jumperoo has become her best buddy! I love all their new phases, what flavour of the week is etc.

 

[jacs]

Ooh, that's interesting TennisGal - Evan doesn't seem too interested in moving himself at all at the minute (he does strike me as kind of a lazy little boy!). Our LO's are very close in age aren't they?
Great nap there, 40 mins is all I've managed today, but he's just gone down again - fingers crossed!

 

[TennisGal]

Yes - really close! The standing thing has really only just appeared over the last week or so...prior to that, she was happiest lying in her play gym! Tell you what, though, it's murder on my arms, holding her on my legs all the time! Lol! So tell Evan he may want to hold off for a while!

Let me know how your nap goes!

Oh, and don't let him trick you into believing he's not up for moving...apparently both my sister and I weren't interested in standing or crawling much...and then when we were both nearly one, we decided to just get up and walk! You'll be running after him everywhere!

OT - have you started weaning? We haven't yet...confused about trad. and BLW!

 

[flowers04]

hehe that's funny Elski - im the complete opposite i feel sorry for my neighbour, she never says anything and dd cries a lot

4 month growth spurt - my minds so frazzled im having trouble remembering much - what i do remember is that dd went through a phase of getting up for the day at 2amish - she just wouldn't settle for around 2 hours it was so exhausting, we just ended up bringng her in our bed ans she would eventually fall alseep. I think this could have been a growth spurt, but like Tennisgal says, i only remember dd feeding like crazy at the 6 week growth spurt. But yes around 4 months it was hard - sorry to say - i think once we started to put her down awake was when we saw a slight improvement so it may have been half growth spurt half unable to settle - timewise, for us this phase went on for at least a month sorry that probably wasn't much help

They are also learning a lot so if lo has learnt something new then they could be waking because of this, there little minds must be working overtime.

Polaris - sorry you had a bad night - you must be shattered hopefully it was just a one off

dd didn't have a good night to - she slept from 7.30 - 9.30 then woke, oh settled her, then she slept till nearly 1am, then woke for a feed, she then woke around 4am for a feed and then just wouldn't settle - i ended up in tears as i was so exhausted - oh ended up puting her to sleep aroud 5.30, she then slept till nearly 9am - ahhhh when does it get better

dd always cried before a nap too - but then she cries before bedtime too. How do you settle lo for naps - i pat until she is relaxed and then stop but then she starts crying again as she wants me to continue, im finding this is happenening after her night feeds - she is struggling again to self settle and it is so tempting to sssh pat her to sleep in the early hours

Elski - i have been working on self settling with lo before i started sleepsense - im finding it very hit and miss - i suppose it is down to timing too but like Jacs, dd is not showing sleepy signs that much now so im having to guess by time - the eye rubbing only happens now when she's about to go to sleep . It's worth a try as if she can self settle then the training may be easier, but then the programme is aimed at helping them to self settle so it depends what you think lo would respond to better

 

[Foogirl]

Well I'm biting the bullet ladies and going to give sleepsense a go! I have read through the book and it seems as though we are already in quite good shape with nightimes as she settles herslef without crying already and for the past two nights has only woken once for a feed, goes straight back down. Naps though, not so good. We are stuck in the short nap cycle, 45 mins is about all we get an an hour is good! I have tired wake to sleep a couple of times but have not got it to work yet. Might try doing it a bit earlier as I think I am leaving it too late. She tends to wake up from her lunchtime nap crying, but with her eyes still closed so she is not fully awake. I know she needs to sleep more, but she just works herslf up more and more as I try to soothe her. Sometimes I can re-settle her by rocking her moses basket (probably a prop!) but this only lasts for about 10 mins. Anyone got any ideas?

The naps will take longer to master than the night time sleeping. Sleepsense will give you some good tips, but it is basically about how you put them to sleep in the first place. Once they get used to settling themselves to sleep, they are more likely to do it when they wake mid nap. Also, when they begin to get more sleep, sleeping comes easier to them. Often the problem is overtiredness. Watch for her sleepy signs and get her down for a nap when you see them.

I'd also get started straight away. She won't learn to self settle all by herself, sleepsense teaches you how to help her learn that. Once you've got the stuff and read through it, let us know if you have any more questions.

Good luck.