Sleep Sense Support Group!

[jacs]

Aaargh! Far too much to keep up with! Wonder if we can get text alerts or something, when someone posts on this thread?!

maxbean - Evan used to be the same, and it was purely because we rocked him to sleep. When he woke up, he didn't know what to do, so would cry. Now we don't hear a peep out of him, although sometimes he has one feed at about 4am. Sticking at it, and treating nap/bedtimes in the same way every time, even if LO protests, is crucial, and it often doesn't take long for them to pick it up. We had success from the first night!

AG - Evan also gets very sleepy during his bedtime bottle. We blow lightly on his face, and it keeps him awake without being too stimulated. I've also noticed that if I cough his eyes ping open!

PM- poor little Kyle, what a trooper. And ppor you - no way should you feel bad, he's very lucky he has a mummy in the know about things like this. I know nothing at all about CO, so it would never have occurred to me. Keep us up to date about him, sending you both lots of
I haven't heard back either. I asked about emailing before Easter - thank God we have this group, because my questions are answered now anyway!

HG - I guess all you can do is keep trying the shushing for now. We had a few days of Evan sleeping through, and now he's back to a 4am feed. I have given up trying to change it, I keep thinking that he slept through before in his own time, so (fingers crossed!) he will again. Could it be a growth/developmental spurt?
We found that when Evan started weaning, he wanted a bottle through the night, but would not take his morning bottle. We had to drop the morning feed, as he wasn't having it when we tried to get him to drop the night feed and take the morning bottle!

 

[polaris]

Hi everyone!
Way too much to keep up with, my poor little baby brain cannot cope, LOL.

PieMistress - I hope the cranial osteopath is helpful for Kyle. I have to admit that it kind of annoyed me reading her comments to you, I think she is wrong to be putting you on any sort of guilt trip about not going to her sooner, also remember that she is marketing a service so of course she is going to emphasize how important it is etc. Still if it helps Kyle that is the most important thing.

ArcaneGirl - Welcome to the thread! Everyone is very friendly and helpful here and it is lovely to have support in trying to deal with LO's sleeping. Regarding LO getting drowsy on the bottle, I think the book recommends to really do your best to keep them fully awake, that there shouldn't really be any droopy eyes or half falling asleep, in order to break the association between feeding and sleeping. This was a big change for us as I always used to try to keep Thomas as sleepy as possible when I was feeding him. But for us I think it was important to keep him more fully awake when he was feeding. I haven't had to deal with standing up in the cot yet - sounds very challenging .

Well we were definitely back to two night feeds again last night - I had a feeling we would be as Thomas was clearly starving at bedtime and couldn't seem to fill himself up enough at all. He woke at 11 p.m. which is way earlier than he ever wakes, wolfed down both boobs and still didn't really seem satisfied and cried a bit going back to sleep afterwards. Then woke again at 4 and again was totally starving. Up at 7.30 and very hungry for his morning feed too. I think we must be hitting some random growth spurt, the five and a half month spurt LOL. Does anyone else feel like it would be more accurate to talk about the periods between growth spurts as 'breaks from growing' or something like that, with growth spurts being the more normal state of being? Thomas's life is just one big growth spurt with short breathers in between!!

 

[Arcanegirl]

Morning Ladies

AG - I agree with tennis girl about not forcing him to lie down as that could led to him really not wanting to do it. Sleepsense should work for you especially if you don't like cry it out - you stay with them. Mine hates pu/pd so I never do it now it just winds her up when she dosen't get to stay on me. Does he have a 'nunu'? (a comforter or teddy). Phoebe knows as soon as nunu appears it is sleep time and she puts him on her head (we have an elephant one at night that never leaves her cot for fear of losing it and a rabbit one for the day). Takes a while to establish the link but really works for us.

I would comfort him whilst standing myself and repeat your sleep phrase (our is nighty night time).

WE dont have a comforter as such, he never really took to anything. There is always the same items in his cot though, a taggy blanket, big teddy and an activity crocodile.

Morning to everyone!

Arcane Girl - yes, I think that side of things is the same...how were things last night?

Last night was pretty good he went down after 6 mins of crying, maybe heard a few grumbles over the next couple hours but didnt wake. heard him chattering at 5.30 this morning but didnt cry to get up untill 7am!

AG - Evan also gets very sleepy during his bedtime bottle. We blow lightly on his face, and it keeps him awake without being too stimulated. I've also noticed that if I cough his eyes ping open!

Alex got used to mils constant coughing so that doesnt work

ArcaneGirl - Welcome to the thread! Everyone is very friendly and helpful here and it is lovely to have support in trying to deal with LO's sleeping. Regarding LO getting drowsy on the bottle, I think the book recommends to really do your best to keep them fully awake, that there shouldn't really be any droopy eyes or half falling asleep, in order to break the association between feeding and sleeping. This was a big change for us as I always used to try to keep Thomas as sleepy as possible when I was feeding him. But for us I think it was important to keep him more fully awake when he was feeding. I haven't had to deal with standing up in the cot yet - sounds very challenging .

I will try and keep him more awake and see how that goes
So far ive yet to deal with the standing either lol! But i know he does it. Its the first thing he does when he cries as soon as i put him down in the cot.

 

[redpoppy]

who has had viable results for naptimes with sleepsense?

It seems the system focuses on nighttime and that's not too bad for us.

My little angel self settled herself throughout the night last night. She had two feeds but after the second was awake for a good twenty minutes cooing then grizzling with the odd cry of discontent but put herself back to sleep.

I tried putting her down in the crib this morning for her nap and she started crying and I couldn't handle it and tried to comfort her and it made her worse then I picked her out of the cot and next to me but she continued screaming and then I carried her around and she screamed and screamed, tried her in the rocker, no help there and I finally put her inthe moby wrap and she's sleeping now.

So two questions really:

Does sleepsense really genuinely help with naps and has anyone solved their nap issues?

and

Does making them sleep in the cot in the day make them associate bad things with the cot and ruin their nighttime abilities to self settle, or indeed just affect their nighttime sleeping abilities in general?

Thanks for the replies!

 

[polaris]

Hi Redpoppy
I have definitely had some success with naps - although I wouldn't say they are totally sorted yet (he has gone back to 45 minute naps for the last couple of days whereas he really really needs longer naps if he's not going to be cranky!).
When I first started I was bouncing Thomas to sleep for all of his naps in the bouncy chair, he would often cry before going to sleep but I would keep bouncing him and eventually he would go to sleep. He had stopped being able to fall asleep on me at all, so the bouncy chair or the pram were our only options. I was terrified of putting him in the cot for naps as I didn't think he would settle at all. Now he takes the majority of his naps in his cot, I actually prefer him to sleep in his cot as he sleeps much better than he does in the pram when we are out and about. When we first started doing sleepsense for naps, he did cry going down for his naps but usually for less than five minutes and there have only been two occasions where we had to abandon the nap as it just was not happening. Now he only occasionally cries going down for a nap, usually if he is a bit overtired. I have found that timing is probably the most important thing for naps - but that isn't really properly covered in sleepsense. I have also found that having a pretty long wind-down period before naps has helped enormously - again that is not really sleepsense.
I think the programme is more focused on night-time sleep to be honest - but I think that by taking a consistent approach day and night it has really improved Thomas's sleep in general, including naps.
I also think that if your LO can self-settle at bedtime then it will be easier to work on naps.
Hope this helps.

ETA - just noticed your second question. I haven't found that getting LO to take naps in the cot has caused any bad associations or affected his night-time sleep at all. I was a bit worried that he might get confused between day and night but that hasn't happened at all. He didn't like going into the cot during the day at first, but he was still happy to go into the cot at bedtime, and now, once I time it right, he is happy to go into the cot for his naps during the day.

Naps are hard work and I have felt like crying or tearing my hair out on numerous occasions - but so worth it to get them sorted. I don't think we are totally there yet but definitely going in the right direction.

 

[TennisGal]

Does anyone else feel like it would be more accurate to talk about the periods between growth spurts as 'breaks from growing' or something like that, with growth spurts being the more normal state of being? Thomas's life is just one big growth spurt with short breathers in between!!

Yes, yes, yes!! I was saying to DH at about 3am pretty much that exact same thing!

Could it be a growth/developmental spurt?
We found that when Evan started weaning, he wanted a bottle through the night, but would not take his morning bottle. We had to drop the morning feed, as he wasn't having it when we tried to get him to drop the night feed and take the morning bottle!

That's strange, Jacs, we're finding pretty much the same thing with weaning - night feeding, but not BFing much for the first morning feed (not the early morning, the 9am-ish feed) Wonder what it is?

 

[TennisGal]

Hi RedPoppy -

We're slowly but surely getting there with naps - it's been a long process, but I know I am largely at fault due to lack of consistency with daytime sleeps. Dana does state that naps take longer to crack...and it is harder to schedule the days activities when trying to get naps sorted! Especially when we're all out and about. We're still not there, but we're a lot closer to getting them sorted. We now have two decent naps in the cot, and one decent nap on me I've aimed to keep one on me.

Naptimes hasn't impeded at all on bedtime, which has been good.

AG - fantastic night!!

Polaris - wonder if you'll see Thomas doing something new any day soon?! SOunds like he's on the move...!

 

[redpoppy]

Now he only occasionally cries going down for a nap, usually if he is a bit overtired. I have found that timing is probably the most important thing for naps - but that isn't really properly covered in sleepsense. I have also found that having a pretty long wind-down period before naps has helped enormously - again that is not really sleepsense.
I think the programme is more focused on night-time sleep to be honest - but I think that by taking a consistent approach day and night it has really improved Thomas's sleep in general, including naps.
I also think that if your LO can self-settle at bedtime then it will be easier to work on naps.
Hope this helps.

This is making me wonder if the programme is for me. It's not like buying a book for a few quid, and I think I'd resent it if it didn't help with the naps which is what I need help with.

If night time was an issue with us I'd definitely go with it, but I'm not sure how great it is with napping. I'm actually confused.

Although it's only been two nights self settling. Although I'm SOOOO proud of her figuring it out all by herself. what a clever girl! Just need her to figure it out in the daytime!

 

[PieMistress]

Hi RedPoppy,

I need to go and see the HV now but just wanted to quickly say that SS has without doubt helped us with naps. Kyle has just had a lovely 2hrs+ morning nap in his cot!
x

 

[Arcanegirl]

Im sitting here in total shock and i kid you not...

Alex jsut went to sleep with 30 secs crying!

OH put him down and i peeked through, said give him his taggy. Alex snuggled up to it and when put down protested for all of half a minute then total silence!

 

[polaris]

Im sitting here in total shock and i kid you not...

Alex jsut went to sleep with 30 secs crying!

OH put him down and i peeked through, said give him his taggy. Alex snuggled up to it and when put down protested for all of half a minute then total silence!

Wow that is brilliant!!

 

[redpoppy]

Im sitting here in total shock and i kid you not...

Alex jsut went to sleep with 30 secs crying!

OH put him down and i peeked through, said give him his taggy. Alex snuggled up to it and when put down protested for all of half a minute then total silence!

So, are comfort blankets and comfort toys included in the sleep sense programme?

I suppose I should get it really as at present I don't know what to do other than give in and stick her in the moby wrap.

 

[Arcanegirl]

I think its having something to help associate with sleep that isnt something like bottle/boob or you.

 

[jacs]

Fab Arcane Girl!!
I vividly remember the first time Evan went to sleep on his own - total disbelief.

Way to go!


redpoppy - Evan only did 40min naps - to the minute. Honestly, as soon as he was asleep I knew EXACTLY when he would wake up. He was constantly tired and irritable.
He was 5 months old when we started SS, and on the first day he had a double nap (80mins). Since then, he has had a 80-120min nap pretty much every day, the rest being 40mins. The difference in his mood is fabulous!

Night times are also great, on the first night he dropped to one waking, and recently has slept right through. When I look back, I can see that since we started, our whole family has been much happier and well rested - not just Evan!

TG- yeah, what is it with morning feeds?! Wish I could just say 'look, you've got it completely the wrong way round!'

Polaris - haha! Yes, when are LOs ever NOT growing and developing?

The wee fella is having his long nap of the day - I'm tidying the kitchen while he's down (apart from right now!). Don't know how we have collected a hundred batteries, about 10 light bulbs, and random things I've never even seen before, in the one drawer!
Anyone ever seen the Michael McIntyre sketch about the 'man drawer'? That is sooo our house!

 

[jacs]

Im sitting here in total shock and i kid you not...

Alex jsut went to sleep with 30 secs crying!

OH put him down and i peeked through, said give him his taggy. Alex snuggled up to it and when put down protested for all of half a minute then total silence!

So, are comfort blankets and comfort toys included in the sleep sense programme?

I suppose I should get it really as at present I don't know what to do other than give in and stick her in the moby wrap.

Yes, Evan never had anything before SS, now he rubs his blankie across his face to go to sleep. It's like a replacement for us cuddling him to sleep. I was really sceptical about it, but it totally works for him!

 

[redpoppy]

Fab Arcane Girl!!
I vividly remember the first time Evan went to sleep on his own - total disbelief.

Way to go!


redpoppy - Evan only did 40min naps - to the minute. Honestly, as soon as he was asleep I knew EXACTLY when he would wake up. He was constantly tired and irritable.
He was 5 months old when we started SS, and on the first day he had a double nap (80mins). Since then, he has had a 80-120min nap pretty much every day, the rest being 40mins. The difference in his mood is fabulous!

Night times are also great, on the first night he dropped to one waking, and recently has slept right through. When I look back, I can see that since we started, our whole family has been much happier and well rested - not just Evan!

TG- yeah, what is it with morning feeds?! Wish I could just say 'look, you've got it completely the wrong way round!'

Polaris - haha! Yes, when are LOs ever NOT growing and developing?

The wee fella is having his long nap of the day - I'm tidying the kitchen while he's down (apart from right now!). Don't know how we have collected a hundred batteries, about 10 light bulbs, and random things I've never even seen before, in the one drawer!
Anyone ever seen the Michael McIntyre sketch about the 'man drawer'? That is sooo our house!

This convinced me!

Ordering it now....

 

[history_girls]

Naps have been getting better for us (hit a set back when she was ill) but there now and she goes into travel cot with nunu and is normally out within 10 mins with no protest. This week we turned a corner and she does over an hour on her own now - almost two at one stage yesterday. I sat and watched her for 90 mins yesterday rather than do jobs - it was lovely. She looked so cosy and peaceful. Gonna miss that so much next week.

But we are off to the Zoo tomorrow so very excited! This is after childminder visit so she will be knackered and sleeping in pram all the way around probably! doh!

 

[aimee-lou]

jacs - 'I need you to go to your old house via the side gate. Take with you 10 old AA batteries. While there you'll meet an old man, pay him in drachma! One more thing, you'll need to order a chinese on a Nokia 3210!'

Hi guys.....well I'm not sure what's going on today. Earl is sleeping every hour and a half. He's chatting away likea good'un. He has learnt that if he pulls ont the mat underneath him, he goes forwards. He's decided that he must not sleep on anyone....my god no! lol.....and he also appear to have expanded again overnight. No wonder he's waking me up at 5.30 again! We still didn't get up until 6, instead we cuddled on the sofa making funny faces at one another and dosing.....one of those special moments in the half light when you suddenly realise you're a Mum (i'm sure we've all had them). Just had lunch (toast with peach puree for both of us - believe it or not is really nice lol) and some tea and digestive biscuits for me while Earl takes it out on his toys.

Hope we're all ok...I'm having trouble keeping up at the moment as I only get about 10 mins a day on here now what with moving, packing, job hunting, cleaning and general 'Earl-ness' to cope with lol. I enjoy my cuppa and BnB time though, especially since I've met you ladies.

 

[history_girls]

Aimee - how busy!! I supposed to be doing a blitz on the house this week so it is in decent shape for when I go back to work and then have no toime to be a domestic godess! Two questions Aimmee if that is ok? Has Earl dropped any milk since being on solids? and two in baby club a while back you said you had found a seat to replace his bouncer - what was it? need something for the kitchen as she is about to break her swing that sits in the hallway!!

Good nap this morning for us - got weighed bang on 8kg so still slowing down but a decent increase. Might try for a nap when she is done with her feet but it is that annoying time when she needs a couple of hour nap but will be hungry in an hour.

 

[TennisGal]

That Michael McIntyre sketch is soooo true 'I have the key, what else do you need...' DH has a 'man drawer' - complete with old batteries, take away menu, lots of currency and, yes, random KEYS!

Have you seen the directions sketch? We had to ask for directions the other day, and DH and I were almost in pain trying not to laugh...it was too like the sketch!

Aimee-Lou, are you moving? Hope it all goes smoothly Glad to hear you'll be having a cuppa and catch up on here! I love that 'general Earl-ness'...I may start employing that phrase I know exactly what you mean about those 'oh, wow, that's my baby' moments...heart melting and tear jerking. I got one earlier today when DD grinned at me from her changing table. DH was changing her nap, and she caught site of me and just beamed.

AG - that's great news!!

RedPoppy - let us know how you get on! DD is a thumb girlie, so that is her favourite way of getting to sleep.

Jacs - yep, surely that morning feed could take the place of the 3am-er?!

We had a nap in the cot - well, I lay on the bed and read...and DD slept. Managed a v.g stint. Then I had a ham sandwich and DD had pureed squash on toast! She wolfed all the puree and gnawed a little bit of the bread. I'm making some Annabel Karmel rusks shortly...will update.

I can't believe the naps are going so well at the mo...(watch that be a big jinx!)