Sleep Sense Support Group!

[hivechild]

Yeah, I'm expecting a few tears but then I often get a minor meltdown even when he's falling asleep on me if we don't get the timing right.

I hate to admit it, but I love when we do get the timing just right and he just nuzzles in, snuggles up to me and drifts quietly off to sleep. I'm having a hard time giving that up.

 

[polaris]

Yeah, I'm expecting a few tears but then I often get a minor meltdown even when he's falling asleep on me if we don't get the timing right.

I hate to admit it, but I love when we do get the timing just right and he just nuzzles in, snuggles up to me and drifts quietly off to sleep. I'm having a hard time giving that up.

Yes, when I was rocking Thomas to sleep in the bouncy chair for his naps he would often cry for about five minutes before going to sleep if I didn't time it right. To be honest I thought the move to the cot would be a lot harder than it was, he didn't really cry much more than he did in the bouncy chair anyway. I can totally understand about not wanting to give up on snuggly naps - Thomas made that decision for me because he stopped being able to sleep on me quite early on, long before I started sleepsense.

Well our news is that we have a tooth!!
Totally out of the blue - I was just saying on Tuesday that there was NO sign of any teeth and that he wasn't even showing any symptoms of teething and yesterday one just popped up! I'm so excited - although not looking forward to possible bites - it's very sharp!!

 

[cutie4evr01]

Well ladies we have definitely cracked it! She's been put in bed at 6:15 for the past 4 nights and everytime has gone right off to sleep with maybe a 2 second whine, if that! We still have a 10-15 minutes period of crying and/or whining for naps though. Has anyone tried scheduling naps according to the clock, or do you all follow sleepy signs for naps?

HG, Christina's usually up for the day around 6:15, but she's been waking twice in the night for feeds. On a good night, she'll only feed once in the night, but usually it's once around 12-1 and again around 3-4. I'm thinking once she drops those night feeds, she'll probably be up earlier for the day, as I'm not sure she would actually sleep right through for 12 hours. If that happens, we'll probably work on moving bedtime later. And terrific news about Phoebe sleeping through again!

HC, good luck with getting the naps sorted. We have a bassinet (pack n play) downstairs, but I still always put her in her crib for naps - mostly because her room has blackout blinds and it's quite light downstairs. Our nap routine is: new diaper, sleepsack, story, and then I rock and sing to her for about 3-5 minutes before putting her in the crib. If she seems still pretty wired, I will turn on her glow seahorse that plays music, but I'm trying not to do this every nap as I don't want her to become reliant on it. Although I do leave it in her crib, so sometimes she will turn it on herself. She still fights naps though - I'm looking forward to the day when naps are as smooth as bedtime has been lately.

Polaris, how exciting about the tooth! I bet he looks so cute, and maybe he can tackle some tougher foods soon!

Cattia, how have the past few days been going? I know it's sooo hard to leave them during the day, so I hope you are doing alright

 

[polaris]

Well ladies we have definitely cracked it! She's been put in bed at 6:15 for the past 4 nights and everytime has gone right off to sleep with maybe a 2 second whine, if that! We still have a 10-15 minutes period of crying and/or whining for naps though. Has anyone tried scheduling naps according to the clock, or do you all follow sleepy signs for naps?

HG, Christina's usually up for the day around 6:15, but she's been waking twice in the night for feeds. On a good night, she'll only feed once in the night, but usually it's once around 12-1 and again around 3-4. I'm thinking once she drops those night feeds, she'll probably be up earlier for the day, as I'm not sure she would actually sleep right through for 12 hours. If that happens, we'll probably work on moving bedtime later. And terrific news about Phoebe sleeping through again!

HC, good luck with getting the naps sorted. We have a bassinet (pack n play) downstairs, but I still always put her in her crib for naps - mostly because her room has blackout blinds and it's quite light downstairs. Our nap routine is: new diaper, sleepsack, story, and then I rock and sing to her for about 3-5 minutes before putting her in the crib. If she seems still pretty wired, I will turn on her glow seahorse that plays music, but I'm trying not to do this every nap as I don't want her to become reliant on it. Although I do leave it in her crib, so sometimes she will turn it on herself. She still fights naps though - I'm looking forward to the day when naps are as smooth as bedtime has been lately.

Polaris, how exciting about the tooth! I bet he looks so cute, and maybe he can tackle some tougher foods soon!

Cattia, how have the past few days been going? I know it's sooo hard to leave them during the day, so I hope you are doing alright

Yay that is brilliant! It is so lovely when they drop straight off to sleep like that with no crying or protest! Naps will be like that in time.

I have always followed sleepy signs for naps but just recently I am trying to go more by the clock but in a flexible way taking sleepy signs into account too. I am aiming for naps at 9 a.m., 1 p.m. and 4.30 p.m. approximately. I would like to get a more consistent daytime schedule just to make it a bit easier to plan things and especially for when I go back to work although of course his sleep requirements will have changed by then. I don't think I could have gone by the clock when he was younger though - he's only recently becoming a bit more flexible about staying awake a bit longer in between naps.

 

[Cattia]

Hi all :wave:
Polaris, congratulations on your first tooth - how exciting!! That's a real milestone

Cutie, well done for working out bedtimes. Isn't it amazing that their little body clocks are that finely tuned? As Polaris says, I think with your detective skills you'll have naps done in no time.

Hive - how are things going with Ronan? Hope he is settling for you.

HG - glad your nights have got better again after your rough patch.

Quick update - last night was OK, she woke twice but I fed her straight away and she went straight back down. This evening I had to stay for parents' evening, it was the first time since she was born that I have not done the bedtime feed DH gave her a bottle (formula as she'd finished all the EBM I left out today) and she went down fine. Didn't miss the boob at all I had pumped at work but not since about 4pm so my boobs were getting pretty full so instead of pumping again I got her out of the cot and gave her a dream feed. Not done one since she was tiny and it was SOOOO nice, it really made up for missing bedtime, she was all sleepy and snuggly and it was lovely Don't know whether she'll sleep any better, I am not working tomorrow so get the whole day to enjoy her. Work has been OK today, and I am loving every second of my days off, so feeling a little more positive. Hope you all have a good night.

 

[PieMistress]

Peeps,

Polaris - Congrats on the first tooth! How exciting How has Thomas been the past few nights?

Cattia - Now that the count down back to work has begun for me (well, it's still 8 weeks but I know they will fly past) I treasure my breast feeds even more, especially as I will be winding them down in the next few weeks. I will hopefully keep up the AM feed and OH will then give Kyle a bed-time bottle during the week so at least we each get our own time with him after he has been at the nursery all day SOB!

Hive - how is changing the routine going? we are the same and very keen to not make his breast feed the last thing before bed as he is always very very sleepy and i'm sure there is an assocation there which i'm very keen to break. Last night after his BF we sang to him for a bit then put him down (very very awake) which resulted in 20 minutes of crying (OH stayed with him and did sleep sense).

At the moment naps are easier than night-times for us. I think it's because I know he is definitely not hungry and his nap length is flexible. If he has a short morning nap he will then have a longer afternoon one, or vice versa or 2 pretty long naps. We were doing really well and having 5 feeds over a 24hrs period for a while but then he got a cold and it all went to pot and he went from one night feed to 2 or even 3. He has kept this up for the past 5/6 week despite getting over his cold and we think he now his this feed to get back to sleep at night.

Last night OH had had enough I think and said that if he wakes for a feed less than 4hrs after the last one he will go in and do Sleep Sense instead of me feeding him. So, Kyle woke up at 11.30pm (and OH even gave him a bottle of formula rather than me BF him). He then woke up less than 3hrs later. We checked he still had his blankie, didn't need a nappy change etc etc and then I had the most awful awful time listening to him cry. OH stayed beside him for an hour during which he would cry, stop, cry, stop etc until he eventually stopped just before 4am. He then just talked to himself for about 20 mins before finally falling asleep until 6.30am. He had a good feed for breakfast (better than usual because after 2 night feeds he isn't hungry in the morning and often won't feed for at least an hour after he has woken up). The problem is the fear that we have to do it again tonight. I don't have a problem with Kyle needing a night feed at all, it's just that i'm not convinced he is actually hungry but end up feeding him just in case and also because it's the easiest way of settling him at night.

Sorry for the waffle! I then feel horrendously guilty in that he has been so happy and smiley all morning and I read these articles about how crying for over 30mins is very bad for babies ........ I guess I have to just take it all into perspective.

He's been asleep now since 8.15am but we have swimming at 10.30am so I will give him until 10.15am then will have to waken him (which I hate doing from a nap but it will have been 2hrs anyway).

Am I bad for having him cry like that last night? In the past i've caved in after about 30 mins (so he's cried for nothing and OH has stayed in the room for nothing) but last night OH was much stronger than me and said we need to give it a go. I also then worry about not feeding him enough if he's having a growth spurt but in every one so far he hasn't increased his night feeds only the duration of his day feeds.

Sorry for jibbered message!!! xxx

 

[polaris]

PieMistress - I think the 4 hour rule is pretty good, they can't really be hungry if they've had a feed less than 4 hours ago. I tend to use the 5 hour rule with Thomas now (which can still sometimes end up as two night feeds if he wakes at midnight and again at 5). It must have been horrendous listening to him crying for an hour though.

Thomas's sleep has been MUCH better for the past two nights, I wonder if it is because the tooth is through? Last night he took a bit longer than usual to settle because he rolled onto his tummy and I had to go up and flip him back, but was asleep by 7.30 and not a peep out of him until 5, when I fed him, and then back to sleep until 7 (YAY!!!!!). I got him up at 7 because I'm trying to get him into a more regular daytime routine but I think he must have been awake anyway as he had just had a poo.

 

[PieMistress]

Polaris - that's brilliant!!! I am also trying for Kyle to start the day at roughly the same time as I think it will help his body clock/bio-rhythms (or whatever they are called!) and night-time sleeping if I can get him to nap at roughly the same time each day.

At the moment his nap start times can vary by an hour or so. He starts nursery in 8 weeks and then he will need to be up at 6.30am in order for me to attempt to get to work on time!

Just taken him swimming and he's had some papaya for afters so napping now He's also 6 months old today! Scary biscuits! Time is flying by, my wee boy doesn't seem like a baby anymore!

 

[polaris]

Happy six months to Kyle!!

Thomas has only just started to have a more regular pattern for naps, I think it is hard when they are younger because they get overtired so easily.

How are you feeling about going back to work?

 

[PieMistress]

I forgot to ask Polaris, what do you do at night if Thomas wakes up less than 5hrs after his last feed?

Have mixed feelings about going back to work TBH. I enjoy my job and have fantastic colleagues but it's the fact i'll be full time that will hurt! I'm going to see how it goes until Christmas then we will re-assess the situation and our finances. I'd like to move house and can't do that unless I'm working FT to get our bank balance u pagain after being off for 8 months Ideally i'd only work 4 days or, 9am to 3pm but in my line of work it's just not possible (the 4 days could be but not the shorter days which i'd probably prefer).

Ho Hum! Time will fly by even quicker then! Not sure how i'm going to fit it all in! x

 

[polaris]

I have mixed feelings about going back to work too. I do enjoy my job a lot and I really worked hard to get to where I am today in my career. But at the same time I totally hate the thought of leaving Thomas AT ALL. Ideally I would like to do three days a week or possibly five mornings a week. But that isn't really possible so I am going to go back four days a week.

If Thomas wakes less than five hours from his last feed then I would leave him a couple of minutes to make sure that he is really awake and not just crying in his sleep for a minute. Ideally if OH is here I would send him to check on him, if OH isn't here I will check on him but he tends to settle more easily without feeding for OH. Usually at the moment it is either because he has rolled over onto his tummy or because he has a pooey nappy, either of which is easily sorted. Sometimes I can't figure out what is wrong and I might give him a bit of teething gel in case his teeth are hurting. If he is upset I usually give him a cuddle to calm him down, then put him back in the cot and tell him sleepy time and leave the room. I used to stay with him but I find that it actually works better when I calm him down but then leave him to fall asleep by himself as this is what we do at bedtime. I figure that he is not used to falling asleep with me in the room now so I think it tends to keep him awake. He normally just goes straight back to sleep within about five or ten minutes. If he obviously isn't going back to sleep, then I would go back in and try and figure out what is wrong with him, but to be honest this doesn't really happen now, if it did I would probably just end up feeding him, LOL, I am weak!!

 

[Cattia]

PM, we have the same issue, I relly think Abigail is waking out of habit, not hunger. Last night for example, she had a whole bottle of formula before bed at 6.30, since I was out, then when I got in she had a 20 minute dream feed (becasue I needed to feed her). She still woke up at 1am, I am sure that can't be hunger, but I still fed her. It's hard because I know there are those who say that crying is bad for babies, but I just think that there comes a time when the continued night wakings are going to have a big impact on family life, especially when you are going back to work, and I know quite a few people who have refused to allow their kids to cry and now have toddlers or even older kids who expect to be settled three or four times a night. I also think it will be much harder to let them cry when they are older and can talk etc. and are more likelyto remember it. This is how I justify it to myself, because it is something that I hate the thought of, but I really think we are going to have to go through it in the summer to get Abigail sleeping better. I am sure that if we don't my work is going to suffer and that has a knock on effect on everything else.

Abigail has gone for a nap which is not great timing as she should be eating her tea now, but I don't want to wake her as she was getting really grumpy. I think I'l leave her another 15 minutes or so, maybe bedtime might have to be a bit later. Do you ladies wake them from their last nap if it is going on too late, or would you move bedtime later?

 

[cutie4evr01]

Abigail has gone for a nap which is not great timing as she should be eating her tea now, but I don't want to wake her as she was getting really grumpy. I think I'l leave her another 15 minutes or so, maybe bedtime might have to be a bit later. Do you ladies wake them from their last nap if it is going on too late, or would you move bedtime later?

Interesting you should ask this, because we just had this dilemma yesterday! Christina went for her last nap around 3:30, and usually only sleeps 1 hour or less, but was still sleeping at 5, so we attempted to wake her up. She has been doing bedtime so brilliantly at 6:15 that I was nervous about moving it back too far. I didn't want to wake her abruptly, so I just went into her room and tried to make some noise, and even rubbed her blankie on her arm, but she was out cold and did not wake! So we decided to just let her sleep. She eventually woke at 6, but of course we couldn't put her down for bed at 6:15, so we wound up starting her bath around 7:30 and she went to bed by 8, without any noise at all, and didn't wake to feed until 3:30. So yesterday I would have suggested waking her, as that's what we would have done, but since it went so smoothly for us, I think it's probably ok if you want to let her sleep and just do bedtime later.

 

[Cattia]

Thanks Cutie, we didn't wake her and she woke naturally just after 5, but it seemed as though she was still really tired. She was rubbing her eyes all the way through her tea and then got really whiney when I was reading her a story so I actually ended up starting her bedtime routine a little early and she was in the bath by 6 and in ned by 6.30! She had a little moan but went down better than she has the past few nights so I think earlier bedtimes definitley work for her.

 

[history_girls]

Sorry had a couple of mega busy days and tonight I am exhasuted!
will do a loveyl long reply tomorrow but wishing all sleepy dust

 

[TennisGal]

Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadies!!

How are you all?! Long time, no speak! Well, basically our internet went kaput...closely followed by my managing to break a finger. Fab news. Still stiff and sore...but lots better than it was. Definitely not fun. I was waving said finger at all and sundry exclaiming about how would I change nappies and how it could impact my mothering skills and career. Drama ;-)

SO, how is everyone doing?

DD is now 9 months (can't believe it!) and is just a complete joy. She's now zipping around and has decided to refuse any kind of spoon feeding. BLW with yoghurt and no spoon is hilarious

She's now getting up for one feed in the night, and one early morning - where she'll stay for a cuddle for an extra hour....so we're kinda on five feeds a day, still. I really enjoy it...but am a bit concerned they aren't reducing and how that will work with work etc. We'll see.

Naps are much shorter, and DD tends to have an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon.

I must catch up on all the posts on here! Hope you are all enjoying the nice weather...DH, DD and I spent a large part of today lying in the shade in the garden. Bliss. Then, in honour of my name, been watching the tennis!

Tell me all your news,

TG x

ps-Ripples have been replaced with praline flakes in the TG household. They come HIGHLY recommended.

 

[hivechild]

PM - We've been reading to Ronan for a bit longer than normal (and usually daddy will do storytime these days) so he's been awake and alert going into his cot at night but he's still settling fantastically so I'm happy with that much separation between nursing and bed for now!

It's so hard when they start crying like that when they normally do so well, isn't it? I know when I first started reading to him it was very short books taking only a minute or two to read and he was still barely keeping his eyes open but over a couple weeks I started taking longer, talking more about the pictures etc. and lengthening the time we spent doing that so it wasn't a sudden shock for him after being used to nursing and then bed.

Polaris - That's great that Thomas is sleeping better, and yay on his tooth poking through! BTW, I keep forgetting to ask if you got that book yet and what your thoughts on it were?

Cattia - I hope that the earlier bedtimes keep working for Abigail and she sleeps better for it!

HG - Hopefully you're getting lots of sleep and things have slowed down for you now.

TG - Welcome back! So sorry to hear about your poor finger, but way to milk it for all you can! Great to hear that LO is doing fantastic. I bet she's keeping you on your toes with all that zipping around.

Also, I am totally envious of your praline flakes. I'm lucky if I can even find regular flakes imported here.

Well, Ronan had a horrible day yesterday the poor monkey. We had his pediatrician's appointment first thing in the morning and he got his second round of vaccinations. Good news is that he's growing like a weed on mummy's milk! At 18 1/2 weeks he's 15lb 14oz (about 7.2kg), and is 26.75" (just shy of 68cm). The bad news is that he was so miserable after his vaccinations and was crying whenever he was awake.

I gave him tylenol which helped settle him some and he did actually nap quite a bit during the day, and last night he slept from about 7:30 until 5:20am! He then went straight back to sleep after a feed until about 8:40am. He hasn't slept that long in awhile. I'm not expecting a repeat performance mind you, since I'm pretty sure that it was the vaccinations (along with the tylenol) making him so sleepy, but it was nice to actually get a good sleep and a bit of a lie in too.

He went to bed a bit later tonight (asleep by about 8:20) so we'll see how long he goes!

Sleepy dust for all!

 

[polaris]

TennisGal - YAY - welcome back! It's great to see you but sorry to hear about your finger, that must have been really so difficult to manage everything. Good to hear that DD is doing so well.

Thomas is showing no signs of wanting to drop his night feed either - I think he would happily drop one of his daytime feeds though - err no that is not the plan!! So he is currently feeding at (roughly) 7.30, 11, 3, and 6.45 and then wakes for a nightfeed sometime between 3 and 5. For the past three days I have been limiting Thomas's morning nap to one hour in an attempt to address 5/5.30 wake-ups and I don't want to jinx it but he has been sleeping until 6.30 again - which is a HUGE improvement over wanting to get up at 5! Thomas is still taking three naps a day though, I had thought he might be ready to go to two naps but his sleep really disimproved so we went back to three naps for the moment.

Everything is good here - Thomas finally got his first tooth which I am quite excited about and I have a feeling number two might be on its way. And he has figured out how to crawl forwards although his technique is not exactly classical. He gets up on hands and knees, crawls forward with his legs, then moves both arms together and kind of dives forward, then repeat. He looks like a little sealion waddling along on its flippers - but he can move remarkably fast when trying to get to something he's not supposed to have, LOL. He is eight months old today - where does the time go??

 

[history_girls]

TG you're back we've missed you in sleep sense! Sorry to hear about the finger - but great to hear how well your LO is getting on - 9 months? It goes so quick!

Well the news in the HG household is that it is hot we have a ice cream van going round and round blaring music, LO's room is 25 degrees and therefore took an hour for her to go to sleep this evening I tried pure sleep sense, cuddles (but too hot for this) so finally i thought I'd just go straighten my fringe and come back and she went off - until I went down the stairs and they creaked and off she goes again. SO I came downstairs 15 mins ago and she has put her self off - but for how long I don't know. Can't relax now just waiting for more crying

but she was fab last night for her babysitters - sleeping all the time. We've had 4 nights of sleeping right through so I guess I shouldn't complain. We went to OH's Nans 80th birthday - it was like a comedy sketch with how painful it was!

Polaris- we are on three naps a day and no matter what we try that is what she wants although morning naps are increasingly short.

Hive - I hope the jabs haven't made today too bad - hopefully he will bounce back. I think after my LO second jabs she was a miserable little thing.

right going to sit hear and listen to the monitor in a neurotic fashion. Even the dog is hot and bothered. Although on a plus side a did have an afternoon nap when the football was on!

 

[Cattia]

TG, we missed you, so glad you are back

Sorry to hear about your finger, but hope it's on the mend now.

News here is that I am now back at work three days a week Only done one week so far but to be honest it was not as bad as I expected (mind you if it had been I would have been throwing myself off a bridge). Poor Abigal woke up this morning with a streaming cold, she is so blocked up and her eyes and nose are running like anything, she has already woken twice this evening and it is hot in her room too,so we are not expecting a good night. We are going to get tough over the summer holidays and try to get her settling back down without feeding every time. How is DD doing with her sleeping and eating etc?

Hive - hopr Ronan is OK after his jabs. They're horrible aren't they.

Polaris - Abigail is the same - loving her night feed but less and less interested in the daytime ones, especially the mid morning one. I think I am going to have to go through with her again what is supposed to happen, I obviously didn't explain it clearly enough!