Sleep Sense Support Group!

[Poppy7]

My life is hell right now. I feel like I am dealing with a newborn all over again except that he's a lot more vocal and mobile. I am so exhausted...and off to go deal with my screaming, very awake baby 3 and a half hours after he went to bed, and after napping for an entire 1 hour and 8 minutes the whole day. I love him, I really do.

You will get through it HC. Elliott has done exactly the same things in the past and things do return to normal again.x

 

[louziglambdor]

Hi All,

I'm sorry to butt in on your group page but I have been browsing through all of your Sleep Sense pages and have made my first step in signing up. So I have it, and we're starting this Saturday. My baby is five months old next week and waking every -2 hours throughout the night. I've been told this could be the '4 month old sleep regression' - have any of you experienced this? And if so, will Sleep Sense still work?

We're going to do the 'stay in room' method. I just wondered if you could advise me, at the moment when my little one wakes I feed her as I think she could be going through a growth spurt. How will I know when to feed her and when not to when she wakes? (As I realise she doesn't need milk every 1-2 hours). Should I space it out every 3-4 hours like during the day?

Wish me luck please! We have never left her to cry, not even when we have been able to stay beside her, she has always been picked up and nurtured and we used to co-sleep for the first three months before introducing her to her cot. This is beside our bed but she does sleep in it and we don't want to move her to her own room for another couple of months yet. It reads like babies have to be in their own rooms with sleepsense, is this the case or could we keep her beside our bed for another month or so?

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[polaris]

Hi All,

I'm sorry to butt in on your group page but I have been browsing through all of your Sleep Sense pages and have made my first step in signing up. So I have it, and we're starting this Saturday. My baby is five months old next week and waking every -2 hours throughout the night. I've been told this could be the '4 month old sleep regression' - have any of you experienced this? And if so, will Sleep Sense still work?

We're going to do the 'stay in room' method. I just wondered if you could advise me, at the moment when my little one wakes I feed her as I think she could be going through a growth spurt. How will I know when to feed her and when not to when she wakes? (As I realise she doesn't need milk every 1-2 hours). Should I space it out every 3-4 hours like during the day?

Wish me luck please! We have never left her to cry, not even when we have been able to stay beside her, she has always been picked up and nurtured and we used to co-sleep for the first three months before introducing her to her cot. This is beside our bed but she does sleep in it and we don't want to move her to her own room for another couple of months yet. It reads like babies have to be in their own rooms with sleepsense, is this the case or could we keep her beside our bed for another month or so?

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any advice.

Hi Louziglambdor, welcome to the thread!

When I started sleepsense with Thomas he was still in the same room with me, it was fine. I wanted to keep him in my room until six months but ended up having to move him a bit earlier but only because we started waking him up going to bed no matter how quiet we tried to be. I don't think there is any difficulty with using the techniques from sleepsense while baby is still in your room. It does make it a bit more difficult to wait a few minutes before responding in the middle of the night but it can be done.

In relation to feeds, I decided that I would not feed him if he woke less than three hours since his last feed as I knew he could easily go that long during the day. I was planning to gradually extend the time to four hours, five hours, etc. But it turned out I didn't have to do that at all because as soon as Thomas figured out that he could get back to sleep without feeding he straight away started sleeping a full eight or nine hours before waking for a feed! This was within a couple of nights of starting the programme whereas until then he was waking every two hours or even less. Hopefully you will have the same success as we did.

I wouldn't worry about the possible sleep regression, they have them all the time, with or without sleepsense their sleep goes up and down a lot I'm afraid. But sleepsense will still work. Lots of us here started at four/five months and had great success.

 

[louziglambdor]

Thank you Polaris, that's really helpful and just the information that I really needed to get started. I'm glad we can keep her beside our bed for a little bit longer. Once she has learned to self-settle we will be moving Indy to her own room but until then I know I will be up and down all night with her and it is more relaxing to at least stay in bed (even if awake), and I do worry about SIDS. I was thinking of feeding every 3 hours as I do in the day so I'm glad that it worked for you and that it is a good option. Fingers crossed! I'm so pleased to have found this group. I KNOW this is going to work.
x

 

[Foogirl]

I agree with what Polaris has said. You may find that once she realises she can fall asleep without a feed, she is more likely to go back to sleep on her own.

Abby had pretty much dropped her night feeds when we started it but there were times I wasn't sure if she was hungry or not. I just kept an eye on it and if I thought she was hungry I fed her.

That said, it can be confusing if you don't stick to a hard and fast rule. If you think she is ready to drop a night feed, then you might want to consider going cold turkey on it.

The first week is definitely very tough but if you stick with it, it is soooo worth it in the end!

 

[TennisGal]

HC sounds like it could be a growth spurt? I looked like something the cat had dragged in during that mammoth growth spurt (remember me posting about how we'd gone up to about 100 night feeds?) They are hard, but they do pass. I was wondering if DD and I would ever sleep for more than about five minutes - but eventually that need for extra food and the growing pains pass over, and sleep is once more restored. My Mum came over a couple of times during the day to give me a chance to nap - maybe worth someone watching lil Ronan while you catch up on a few z's? Huge

PM - as Polaris says, let us know how everything is going. Hope all went well - and we're thinking of you!

Louz - welcome! SS works fine with your LO in the same room. DD is still in with us - we keep saying she'll move into her nursery, but then changing our minds! I had some teething problems with working out the night feeds. DD still has one night feed, but she used to have lots more. Like Polaris says, once our LOs can self settle, you quickly work out what their 'FEED ME NOW' shouts sound like.
As Foogirl says, the first week is hard, but seeing how refreshed your LO is (and the whole family) it really makes it worthwhile. DD slept on us for pretty much five months - and within two weeks of SS she was much more contented and calm - better quality of sleep!
Being in the same room when helping them settle is a huge bonus, as they know you are there, you can comfort them, stroke their head etc etc - it's a big reassurance for all involved.

 

[louziglambdor]

Ah thanks, I have been putting the whole 'sleep training' thing off but I think Indy is suffering even more than I am at the moment. (Constantly grouchy, overtired, doesn't like going anywhere, can't nap, etc). I'm really looking forward to starting on Saturday, even though I know it's going to be tough. My partner has 10 days off work from then so it's the perfect time to start Sleep Sense.

Can I just ask, are the night-wakings as bad as the initial settling to sleep? I know this will vary between babies, but I just wondered how you got on generally? I need to prepare myself for cries dring the night, but I hope we don't have hideously long spells all through the night. I also worry about the neighbours. I know I shouldn't in the long run.

I can see myself on this page every day asking advice!!!!

 

[polaris]

Ah thanks, I have been putting the whole 'sleep training' thing off but I think Indy is suffering even more than I am at the moment. (Constantly grouchy, overtired, doesn't like going anywhere, can't nap, etc). I'm really looking forward to starting on Saturday, even though I know it's going to be tough. My partner has 10 days off work from then so it's the perfect time to start Sleep Sense.

Can I just ask, are the night-wakings as bad as the initial settling to sleep? I know this will vary between babies, but I just wondered how you got on generally? I need to prepare myself for cries dring the night, but I hope we don't have hideously long spells all through the night. I also worry about the neighbours. I know I shouldn't in the long run.

I can see myself on this page every day asking advice!!!!

We were very lucky, we only ever had about ten minutes of proper crying at a time before he would settle, sometimes he would whinge/moan for longer but that was not too difficult to deal with. Some babies do cry for longer stretches in the first few nights. But on the whole I think there is usually less crying than you would expect when you read through the programme first. For example, the first time I managed to settle Thomas without feeding him I was thinking that I wouldn't be able to handle repeating it several times a night but I didn't have to because he just woke much less often straight away. One piece of advice is to have a clock preferably with a second hand as minutes can seem like hours when baby is crying in the middle of the night - I had to set myself small goals like "I won't pick him up for another three minutes" or similar.

 

[TennisGal]

I agree with P - we found that once DD had settled for the night, she only really got/gets very cross in the middle of the night if she's hungry. Other than that, she would moan for a while and then re-settle. She still does that now, if she's had a long day, may wake up and have a little grumble and then re-settle.

It's SO helpful having your partner with you - DH and I really needed each other in the first few days

 

[Poppy7]

Welcome louziglambdor :wave:

We started Sleep Sense with Elliott when he was nearly 6 months old. He used to have a dummy (does your LO take a dummy? If would sugest that you need to take this away for SS to be as effective as possible). We ditched the dummy and then he became reliant on the boob to settle himself. He would wake every 45 minutes to an hour every night and only a short feed would get him to sleep again. When we started SS Elliott was still in our room. Yes, the first few days are hard but it does get easier and it is worth it. I found the night time waking easier to deal with than naps. Also, once you get LO settling to sleep initially at bedtime you will find that they already start learning the art of self settling and this will help with the night wakings. The first night it took Elliott about 20 minutes to go to sleep, this gradually reduced each day. I *think* the worst night waking episode we had was about 15 minutes of crying.

The ladies in here have been fantastic at helping me get through difficult times and the support is fantatsic. Ask as many questions as you like as we will all be happy to help you. I would suggest that when it comes to using SS for naps you set aside a quiet week where you can be at home as much as possible to spend time sorting a routine and getting LO to sleep in their cot.

Good luck and

 

[Poppy7]

Last night was good good good! Elliott was asleep by 7.30pm. he woke at 6am had a quick feed and then went back to sleep until 7.45am!! What a good boy!!

 

[history_girls]

Ladies!!!!

It has been a while - been on me hols - but back now with a monster! Quick update our end is that she is an angel at night % of the time. Sharing a room with her for 2 weeks was interesting as she moves about sooo much. Naps are a NIGHTMARE. She can stand up now and spends her whole time standing in her cot shouting or playing with her nunu. The only way she will sleep is if it is on me. She would go all day without a sleep but I am not prepared to deal with her like that as she becomes miss cranky pants. She is also so mobile I can't hide things fast enough - the poor dog.


louziglambdor - Hi The others advice is great and I'll agree the crying is sooo hard but I now have a brilliant night sleeper thanks entirely to sleep sense. I am thinking about leaving her to cry again at nap time rather than on me and I am dreading it all over again. OH says weekend is nap bootcamp.

HC - Sorry its bad at the mo.

Polaris - saw you thread in baby section but couldn't find it again to reply this evening. Don't think about work yet - I did and I wasted precious time being miserable. Being on the summer hols is like being back on maternity leave and dreading term in a fortnight today but not thinking about it!

PM - hope your return to work went well and your LO was ok at nursery.

oooo so many more people but OH has returned home with biscuits and I can only have some if I make the tea.

See ya!

 

[Poppy7]

Ladies!!!!

It has been a while - been on me hols - but back now with a monster! Quick update our end is that she is an angel at night % of the time. Sharing a room with her for 2 weeks was interesting as she moves about sooo much. Naps are a NIGHTMARE. She can stand up now and spends her whole time standing in her cot shouting or playing with her nunu. The only way she will sleep is if it is on me. She would go all day without a sleep but I am not prepared to deal with her like that as she becomes miss cranky pants. She is also so mobile I can't hide things fast enough - the poor dog.


louziglambdor - Hi The others advice is great and I'll agree the crying is sooo hard but I now have a brilliant night sleeper thanks entirely to sleep sense. I am thinking about leaving her to cry again at nap time rather than on me and I am dreading it all over again. OH says weekend is nap bootcamp.

HC - Sorry its bad at the mo.

Polaris - saw you thread in baby section but couldn't find it again to reply this evening. Don't think about work yet - I did and I wasted precious time being miserable. Being on the summer hols is like being back on maternity leave and dreading term in a fortnight today but not thinking about it!

PM - hope your return to work went well and your LO was ok at nursery.

oooo so many more people but OH has returned home with biscuits and I can only have some if I make the tea.

See ya!

Hi ya hun

I hope you had a good holiday. You will get DD back on track with her naps in no time I'm sure. Elliott likes to play around in his cot before day time naps. He makes a point of removing his cot tidy before he lays himself down and goes to sleep lol. No matter how much I lay him down he still gets up and does this before he settles. I just let him get on with it now. It's strange as he never does it a bed time!

They quick at crawling in no time don't they! My dog is a regular target too lol (her and the plant and any open door )

Enjoy your biscuits

 

[hivechild]

I have no idea what's going on with my little monkey but I hope it passes soon. I don't want to get hopeful that we're on the downward slope from here though. Since his mammoth 6 1/2 hour nap I last posted about he's been all over the place. Even before that it's like he's forgotten how to settle himself back to sleep when he wakes in the night, or he really, really just wants a cuddle with mum as he often falls back to sleep after 30-45 minutes of cuddling (it would be faster to nurse him back to sleep)!

He's been waking at odd and random times and goes straight from whinging to screaming. Half the time I can't tell if there really is anything wrong or if he just likes to scream/screech because he's discovered how to and it gets my attention. I miss the days of the less ear piercing squeal.

Getting him to nap is tougher too and we were going so well. He fights them and then gets upset and cries because he's tired, and we go back and forth with me turning him back over onto his tummy until he gives up, has a little whinge and goes to sleep and it's been rare that he's gone past 30-40 minutes per nap.

All that being said, after he woke screaming last night as I was posting (Hubby had gone up to see and try to settle him), and after a fruitless 45 minutes of trying to settle him with cuddles and patting/shhing, I gave up out of exasperation and sheer exhaustion and nursed him, at which point he went right down and slept for a blissful 5 hours and 40 minutes until 5am so I actually got about 5 hours of straight sleep!

I fed him again and he was back asleep by 5:30 and didn't stir until 9amish (when I tried to sneak in to check on him and stood on a squeaky floorboard ). I got about another hour and a half of sleep in there so I felt like I could deal with today.

He only napped twice through the day, once for a half hour around 11 but then for 2 1/2 hours 1:30-4pm. He had a bit of a fuss and whinge going to bed tonight but he was awake longer than normal so was a little overtired and all said and done he went down pretty well. Fingers crossed that he sleeps better!

As for the why, who knows? Growth spurt, developmental upset, teething, itchy nose...you name it! I think he's trying to figure out the whole crawling thing though because he keeps pulling his knees under him and getting up on his elbows in his crib, especially when I'm trying to settle him for naps. On one hand I hope he figures it out soon, and on the other I hope he gets bored and gives up because I'm not ready to baby-proof the house!

Anyway, thanks for the well wishes. Knowing my luck, he'll get it all sorted out, just before we go away on vacation next weekend for the week and things get all tipped upside down again!

 

[louziglambdor]

Thank you all soooo much, I am so glad to be using this site again. (Haven't used it since pregnancy). I've bought so many different books on baby sleep and have been trying the no-cry method for the past 6 weeks but it's not going great. yes, i can tap the mattress and ssssshhh my Indy to sleep, but i'm finding myself doing that every hour throughout the night, after nursing her. glad to have found sleep sense!

Thank you all for your advice. She doesn't have a dummy so thankfully we don't have that hurdle. I'm going to tackle night-sleep first, and then naps later. Starting tomorrow - may the force be with us!!!! xx

 

[polaris]

Thank you all soooo much, I am so glad to be using this site again. (Haven't used it since pregnancy). I've bought so many different books on baby sleep and have been trying the no-cry method for the past 6 weeks but it's not going great. yes, i can tap the mattress and ssssshhh my Indy to sleep, but i'm finding myself doing that every hour throughout the night, after nursing her. glad to have found sleep sense!

Thank you all for your advice. She doesn't have a dummy so thankfully we don't have that hurdle. I'm going to tackle night-sleep first, and then naps later. Starting tomorrow - may the force be with us!!!! xx

Good idea to tackle night sleep first, naps are more difficult but the work does really pay off in the end. It is so amazing being able to just put your baby down in the cot for a nap without rocking/feeding/etc and them just happily take themselves off to sleep. And sleep for an hour or two. None of my real life friends can believe how easily Thomas goes down for his naps now (usually anyway - had a bad day yesterday I think due to teeth).

Poppy - great sleeping by Elliot! Yay!

Hivechild - Thomas's sleep went totally pear shaped at about six and a half months and I'm sorry to say that it lasted about four or five weeks before he was back to normal. I think so much stuff happens all at once for them at this age - teething, starting solids, huge developmental leaps. Hopefully Ronan's 'phase' will be over more quickly than that though. At least you got a bit more sleep last night, personally I wouldn't worry about an extra feed here and there if it helps to get you through. I did my best to keep Thomas to one feed a night but sometimes a second feed was just the only way any of us were going to get any rest. I know it's not sleepsense but I do always think that one of the big advantages of breast feeding is that we do have a reasonably fail-safe soothing technique if all else fails so I will use it if necessary!

Historygirls - good to see you again! Hope your hols went well. Good to hear that Phoebe is sleeping so well at night but not so great about the naps. Do you think the holiday affected her napping routine? I am a bit worried about this for Thomas as we are going to France for two weeks next Wednesday. I'm looking forward to it but I am a bit apprehensive about his sleep. You are so right about the whole going back to work thing, I should really relax and make the most of the time that I have left. Anyway I think I have got a childcare arrangement sorted now that I am very happy with, so that is a huge weight off my mind at least.

 

[hivechild]

I'm glad i got the sleep when I did because we're back to not letting mummy sleep!

Louzi, a belated welcome and I hope things get better for you! Don't let my moaning and whinging put you off because normally, Ronan is a great sleeper and a good little napper. Sometimes nothing but time and a healthy dose of patience will get them through these phases.

A quick and muchly belated hello and good to hear from everyone else. Time for me to sneak back to bed to try desperately to catch a little more sleep.

...or not.

 

[Babyoh]

Hi there -

I know there's a whole separate forum for this but I'm going to post this here too....

I've decided that enough is enough and it's time to teach my baby (5 and a bit months) how to settle herself to sleep. A friend of mine forwarded me the Sleep Sense book which I know some of you have used to great effect....I really like the ideas behind this book and feel that, in my circumstance, it's going to be the best route to helping my little one get a good night's sleep.

But....a few questions...

- we're just trying to introduce a couple of daytime sleeps in the cot...we've not done this before, (which I feel awful about as it's probably going to make it 10 times harder now) which is NOT going down well. My little girl really struggles to settle. We'll put her down, then leave her for 10 - 12 minutes, but inevitably have to go back in and sit with her until she goes down...this has taken up to an hour before which is so hard as all I want to do is pick her up and feed her as this is what she's used to....but I know this can't go on forever. However, when she does go down she is so much better for the sleep afterwards, which tells me as hard as it is this is the best thing for her. We don't use a dummy, don't swaddle - just read her a story, put her in a light grow bag and close the blind. Am I doing this right? Any other suggestions? Is it fair to try and do this twice a day for both of her sleeps?

- to make matters harder, she's just realised she can roll on her front in her cot...she's been rolling for a while, and can roll back onto her back, but has only learnt to roll onto her front in her cot in the last couple of days....which means as soon as we put her down, she rolls and then gets really really upset. Should we keep putting her on her back, or should we just keep an eye out and see how she goes?!! Or, should we try wedging her so that she can't roll?? There's been a couple of times where she's rolled and hit her head on the side of the cot....I'm tempted to put a bumper up but am not sure because it's not recommended due to SIDS.....

Any advice would be very gratefully received....

xxx

 

[cutie4evr01]

Hivechild - Thomas's sleep went totally pear shaped at about six and a half months and I'm sorry to say that it lasted about four or five weeks before he was back to normal. I think so much stuff happens all at once for them at this age - teething, starting solids, huge developmental leaps. Hopefully Ronan's 'phase' will be over more quickly than that though. At least you got a bit more sleep last night, personally I wouldn't worry about an extra feed here and there if it helps to get you through. I did my best to keep Thomas to one feed a night but sometimes a second feed was just the only way any of us were going to get any rest. I know it's not sleepsense but I do always think that one of the big advantages of breast feeding is that we do have a reasonably fail-safe soothing technique if all else fails so I will use it if necessary!

I can second this one - we had C down to feeding only once per night, usually around 1-3am, but for the past few weeks she's been all over the place. I think it started with teething - she got her first 2 about 3-4 weeks ago and she's just got the pegs for the two on top starting to poke through. I'd been feeding her twice a night most nights (although the second one is usually around 5ish, so technically could be considered morning). We are getting ready to crack down on night feeds and are considering going cold turkey. But the past two nights she's gone back to one night waking, so I'm hoping she just grows out of it on her own and spares me the crying. I'm sure this is probably wishful thinking.

Our good news is that for a couple weeks now she has been taking 3 naps a day most days, and doesn't cry, whine, fuss for any of them! Either she talks to her blankie or doesn't make any sounds at all. I'm so proud of her! Now if only she slept so well the days she's at her babysitter's house...

Babyoh, I do think you are doing the right thing teaching her to nap in her cot. Naps are so much harder to sort out than nighttime sleep, and honestly C was still resisting every nap for about 2 months! But after the first couple weeks, her resisting was usually less than 10 minutes. I think if you stick with it, you will be very pleased. Our nap routine is similar to yours - we change her diaper, put her in a sleepsack, read a story, then turn off the lights sing two rounds of "twinkle twinkle little star" and put her into her crib wide awake. We started when she was 5 months old, and now she goes down with no fuss. When she first learned to roll, she would roll in her cot and then cry because she couldn't get back, so we actually went in and flipped her back several times until she stayed on her back and fell asleep. Then one day she went to sleep on her tummy, and since then she's never cried out after rolling as she seems happy to sleep on both front and back. C was also getting her arms and legs out of the crib, so we put in a mesh bumper, as thos are supposed to be ok since they can breathe through them - maybe consider something like that? Good luck, and I promise it gets better if you stick with it.

 

[history_girls]

I think Phoebe would give up naps if I let her - 3 dreadfully short ones today but we were busy catching up with people as I'm on holiday and friends need catching up with.

Polaris - We were so good on holiday at making her night time routine identical to home and we had no probs. Naps were not so easy as sometimes she would take her morning nap whilst we walked along the prom and then we got into an awful habit of when she woke after 20 mins from a nap we cuddled her back. It became a habit - lovely snuggles especially for her dad and it did wonders for their bonding - and it is hard to break. This combined with her learning to stand up in her cot at the same time has given us grief Tomorrow nap boot camp. We are home all day with no visitors.

Hive - Phoebe had an awful spell at 6 months - she was poorly then it was if she had forgotton all we had been through with self setteling. He will get better and you will sleep again. Hang on in there

Babyoh - How old is your LO? My LO takes her nap in her travel cot downstairs as she is normally with a childminder. It took her a good couple of weeks to take to it (before she slept on a giant beanbag inside her travel cot but when she could roll I had to take it away). I use airwrap sides on her cot and it helps with the bumps and entaglements and when we didn't have it on holiday it was a nightmare - since we've been back 100% sleeping through. I always sit in the room during the day until she drops off - my LO likes this and used to take about 10 mins until she learnt to stand - then I would leave her to it. At night to start I stayed but now i don't as it upsets her more.