Stop been so cheap!

I got 4 scans, but 2 extra had to be done. I'm grateful for what I got and if it wasn't for our system here in Australia and I had to pay for those two extra scans at the end, I might not have bothered as I would have thought all was well. My baby was footling breech and it was missed all through midwife appts and all so if I had gone into natural labor my LO might not be here now or I could have even bled to death trying to deliver him naturally. So I am extremely grateful for what I got for free as I don't have much money and paying for extra would have been a stretch :( I hate to think what could have happened if we didn't have the healthcare system we have now and I didn't get those last scans.
Wow hunni glad things turn out ok. Like i said ive been very happy with my public healthcare in pregnancyin Aus. I dont think we in the western world can even fathom how lucky we arecompared to developing countries.

Yes, I was lucky and we are fortunate to live in such a great country with a good healthcare system. Wow you have gotten so much further along since last time we spoke :thumbup: Hope everything is going OK for you hun and congrats on your wedding!


Thanks hun, yeh doing well, bubs is so big and heavy now, not long to go....:hugs:
 
having worked in the NHS I find it deeply offensive when people refer to the NHS 'Constantly fails us', try seeing some of the things I and other NHS workers have seen, THEN come tell me it's 'failing' people!

Quite right chick, I could never, ever say that. They saved my baby and kept her for 12 weeks, cared for her and made her the little girl she is today.
And people moan about how many scans they get? Do you know what, if someone thought you were at risk, you'd get a scan. Thats how it usually works.
I dont give a monkeys how many scans i get in this pregnancy - as long as i know if this lil one comes early - they are in VERY SAFE hands!
 
No health care system is perfect - they are ALL flawed in one way or another. You can talk about how wonderful the health care is in some other country, but I bet if you talked to some of the citizens there, you would find SOME that have issue with it. Nothing in life is ever going to be perfect, you are never going to be able to get absolutely everything you want, and it seems like sometimes people just can't accept that.
I think for the most part, we're all pretty lucky when it comes to health care. I feel very fortunate to live where I do and receive the care I get. Is it perfect? No. Are there things I would change about it if I could? Yes. But I still feel lucky.
This isn't aimed at anyone, it's just my opinion.
 
having worked in the NHS I find it deeply offensive when people refer to the NHS 'Constantly fails us', try seeing some of the things I and other NHS workers have seen, THEN come tell me it's 'failing' people!

Quite right chick, I could never, ever say that. They saved my baby and kept her for 12 weeks, cared for her and made her the little girl she is today.
And people moan about how many scans they get? Do you know what, if someone thought you were at risk, you'd get a scan. Thats how it usually works.
I dont give a monkeys how many scans i get in this pregnancy - as long as i know if this lil one comes early - they are in VERY SAFE hands!

So glad you were pleased with her care hun. She did so well bless her, she is a strong little girl. I hope to go into neonatal nursing when I am qaulfied. I hope this little one makes it to term
xx
 
I agree AND disagree with this post.

My views are not warped, they are very much informed.
I don't doubt that those working within the NHS (in the majority of cases) do their best to provide excellent care, but it is not as great as everyone suggests considering the amount of taxes we pay, it is not without fault, and huge failings are consistently reported left right and centre (and not just in the daily mail).

I very much disagree that there are huge failings in the NHS. However, I think that there are some big issues to be adressed and some uncomfortable issues to be adressed as to what sould be provided on the NHS and what should not.
There are some fantastic staff in the NHS, but there also are some very poor 'professionals' who skive by on the hard work of others. There are certain wards and areas which need totally overhauled. I worked on one medical ward which was run amazingly well by the ward manager, organised, efficient and a credit to the NHS, wheras the ward next door, run by a different ward manager was cliquey, disorganised and a nightmare to be sent as a bank nurse or student. Both the same specialty, both with a high turnover, equal budgets, one female, one male. The main difference was the attitude and ability of the person running them. There have been a tremendous amount of ill informed journalist pieces jumping on the NHS and not getting to the facts including reporting of MRSA and C-diff, using isolated incidents as an illustration as to the whole of the NHS and pieces such as panorma which while highlighting some important issues also failed to see other sides of certain incidents.
As we speak, one of my colleagues is off work caring for his daughter, because his wife has back problems, for which she is on a 6-12 month waiting list for treatment, she is bed ridden, how is that a brilliant service?
That is sad, and one of the reasons I think we need to look at what the NHS actually funds and how funds are allocated in certain areas. My dad is also awaiting results and treatment regarding his health so I know why people get frustrated, BUT access to care is free at the point of access and I don't think we should lose sight of how precious that is. It would be lovely to have quicker access to everything we need in terms of healthcare and I think that big decisions need to be made about what should REALLY be available on the NHS right now while the changing needs of the patients we see are changing how the NHS delivers care. I think that we need to look at what is good about the NHS and make serious decisions about where it is going. Wastage is a huge issue, as is organisation but these things take time and who wants to be the one to make decisions on what is taken away.
Millions of people are denied life saving drugs because the NHS will not provide them.
I disagree with the numbers here, but I'm interested in seeing the evidence as it's obviously an area of interest. Drugs are expensive and NICE makes decisions on whether certain drugs are cost effective based on the evidence available and the proven effectiveness of the drug. We cannot have it both ways, a health service that is value for money and a health service which will spend excessively on trial drugs, drugs which are not shown to improve prognosis significantly. Regardless of whether a country has a national health service or is based on health insurance, someone up the ladder has to make difficult decisions about what drugs to provide. Mistakes might be made, appeals processes are long and if you are affected by a life threatening illness and see a possible solution that is denied to you it is heartbreaking but the NHS is about the health of everyone and so sometimes has to make difficult decisions regarding individuals.
Every single day there are posts on this forum about women who fail to receive adequate maternity care.
and some are ridiculous and smack of entitlement just like the OP. The majority of those which genuinely appear to be bad practice are based on the poor practice of individuals or departments which need to be adressed and I would always encourage people to complain to the right people. It is a sad fact that a large organisation like the NHS has to regularly deal with certain groups of practicioners and individuals who underperform or do not meet standards. The same is true of large companies. A friend of mine had a BUPA home investigated by the care commission and overhauled for bad practice and subsequently one of the nursing staff struck off because he was appalled at the level of care.
The maternity care in my area alone has improved dramatically in eight years, thanks to the input of the general public, health care workers and outside organisations.
People are regularly turfed out of hospitals due to lack of beds, or leave hospital more sick due to poor hygiene.
Lack of beds can be a problem and an important issue where this is seen to happen.
In many cases it is often abuse of the system and problems with services outwith the NHS rather than poor quality healthcare which plays a huge part. People often complain that thier relatives have been 'turfed out' but in reality we cannot discharge a patient without ensuring that this is the best thing for them. Turnover has changed drmatically with changes in services, people are often angry to be sent home quicker after surgery than expected but I would not want to be in a ward full of sick people for longer than necessary and someone who can be looked after at home with a package of care etc should not be blocking an acute bed. I once had a patient who was in hospital for months because we could not get social work to organise a care home place for her which suited her family. I can't speak for other hospitals and areas but I have never seen a patient 'turfed out'. I've seen staff discharge a patient poorly without properly organising aftercare but that was bad practice on the part of the individual not a failing of the NHS.
As for lack of hygeine, in my experience the biggest culprits are visitors and patients. An awful thing to say but people who sit on beds, don't wash hands, obnoxious visitors who go to other beds and sit on other patients beds, people who bring small children to visiting times and allow them to wander etc. There are areas where staff hygeine could be improved but generally speaking the campaigns highlighting the basic errors made in hygeine within hospitals such as cleanliness champions has been highly successful. People should realise though that some of these bugs particularly those related to resistance to antibiotics are very difficult to contain regardless of hygeine.
My nearest hospital has one of the highest infant mortality rate in the country, but I am supposed to be thankful because it is free???
I have had two scans, both were delayed by over a month because there were no appointments available sooner, same for my midwife appointments, where I am marched in and out in under 5 minutes and I thank my lucky stars I am not a first time mother, because then I truly would despair.
No,are of course not. These are REAL issues and we all need to be making noises about these rather than focus on things that we don't need. I absolutely agree that there are certain areas which need drastic improvement and there is no way we should simply accept poor care, poor practice or feel that having a universal healthcare system means we should put up and shut up. It makes me livid when I see organisations campaigning for things that to me take away from the big issues.
Perhaps if people took notice of the apparent issues, and fought for change, we would see our health services improve. I cannot understand anyones blind acceptance of what it is, because it might be a bit better than another country, or some people get no health care so who are we to complain? Those kind of attitudes perpetrate bad service, and hold up the evolution of change that is MUCH needed in the NHS.
I couldn't agree more
I am proud to be British, but that doesn't mean I don't strive for my country to be better, and it doesn't mean I should not believe it CAN be better, but you can bet it won't ever get better unless people demand it!

Again I totally agree, but hope that people can seperate the real issues from the demands of a culture of entitlement. If we can get to the heart of the flaws of the NHS, tackling them productively while celebrating the tremendous amount of good that it does each and every day then we can have the ideal system. I'm sure people would still find something to complain about though :lol:
 
Also the NHS dosn't constantly fail people. Yes sometimes the NHS staff can be let down by a staff member who doesn't carry out their job properly and affect patient care But overall I belive the NHS is a asset to the british people and it is something we should be proud of

I can imagine many NHS staff i.e nurses etc will be very hurt by some of the comments in this thread. Nurses etc go into the profession because they care and they want to care for others, improve quality of life, save lives or making someone comfortbale when their life is coming to an end and many other things. That is the reason I am going into nursing. I also want to make the stay in hospital for a child and the parents ( I am studying childrens nursing) a little less daunting, help concerned parents understand how we are treating the child and also ensure when the child goes home the parents know if there is any additional care a child may need and support them. Nurses do all this because they care. Yes it's a job but it's a job they feel passionate about. Like all other medical staff.

I think people need to start aknowledeging with the NHS and it's staff do and not what they don't do
xx
 
I lived in France, where you get private health care 70% subsidised by your tax contributions (the remaining 30% is topped up by health insurance), you get 100% cover when you are pregnant. I had my last baby there and can say quite honestly that the care is a million times better than what I have ever had in the UK.

I think France have an excellent system on paper and one which most countries would benefit from copying to some extent, they have some family practices that I also envy and would take advantage of when this baby /arrived if I lived there :lol:. It's not free at the point of access though, is it? How does this translate in reality when you need to see a dr and have absolutely no money, is there something in place to allow for this?


Having never lived in france however the one complaint that I have heard which resounds with me is that rural care equates to a higher waiting time (hearsay only I'm afraid). considering the deficit in France with regards to healthcare, I wonder how transferable this would be to a system which is split into four different countries and which has the somewhat unique problem of providing care within the highlands and Islands for example. How's that for OT :lol:

On a point of curiousity too, I had heard that birth in France is highly interventionist, is this accurate?
 
And regarding the HIP Grant. I think people who spend it on anything they are in need of to beable to provide basics for their children should not be frowned upon
whether you spend it on
your own healthcare during pregnancy such as vitamins / clothing and basics for your newborn,
basics for siblings of a newborn who would otherwise miss out due to the cost of the new baby
or on home improvements to make your home a better safer place for your children
or on extra avaliable healthcare such as 4d scans etc for peace of mind

but as far as the HIP grant is concerned everyone gets it whether your on under £80 a week or on £300 plus a week so who are we to judge what its spent on . If everyone gets it regardless of income.

I had never given much thought to the HIP grant (as it was unavailable when I was last pregnant) however after several debates on here I looked into it a wee bit. I had assumed due to the press coverage that it was to pay for fresh veg,fruit etc as it was called 'health in pregnancy' and wondered what the point of getting it at a late stage was, but from what I can make out it's actually what amounts to a bribe for getting antenatal care. If you don't see a dr or m/w you don't get the cash. So it really doesn't matter what you spend it on, the point of the grant has been successful if you qualify. :lol:
 
Also the NHS dosn't constantly fail people. Yes sometimes the NHS staff can be let down by a staff member who doesn't carry out their job properly and affect patient care But overall I belive the NHS is a asset to the british people and it is something we should be proud of

I can imagine many NHS staff i.e nurses etc will be very hurt by some of the comments in this thread. Nurses etc go into the profession because they care and they want to care for others, improve quality of life, save lives or making someone comfortbale when their life is coming to an end and many other things. That is the reason I am going into nursing. I also want to make the stay in hospital for a child and the parents ( I am studying childrens nursing) a little less daunting, help concerned parents understand how we are treating the child and also ensure when the child goes home the parents know if there is any additional care a child may need and support them. Nurses do all this because they care. Yes it's a job but it's a job they feel passionate about. Like all other medical staff.

I think people need to start aknowledeging with the NHS and it's staff do and not what they don't do
xx

i haven't seen anyone saying anything bad about nurses, or any NHS staff members. the debate is actually about the system, nurses have very little if any control over what they can or can't do - they're just employees. i wouldn't take it personally.
 
November, you can still choose to work for someone in Canada with the big fancy benefits.
Personally, I'm happy with Canada's health coverage, especially up here since we don't have to pay at all. Pretty lucky!

Agreed!! :thumbup:

Actually you do have to pay if you live in BC. Which I find odd!


Yup, the cost went up not long ago too I believe. We are definitely paying more than $100 every month + all these high Canadian taxes! edit to add: Oh it's $114 monthly for a family of 3.

From what I see NHS would likely be a bit better than the care in BC -- well on paper anyway. I have never experienced NHS.

Canada ranks #30 w/the WHO for healthcare. UK #18 . It is said people in Canada (I know if differs per province) pay a lot into healthcare and don't get as much for their money. You can see it in the rankings as well.

My OH has a good job but they don't really offer anything 'fancy' nor have we found a company that would give us anything close to what we had before! Why should they feel the need to pay much for healthcare though? There is public healthcare and I am sure as it gets adopted into the US employers will be doing the same thing there.
 
i think the nhs does a great job you get yr 2 scans that you need and then if there are any concerns you get what scans you need. i had the normal 2 and a early one when i had some niggly pains and my gp wanted a scan to check my baby was ok at 7 weeks. i havn't had a scan now since my 21 week one but im being well looked after by my lovely midwife everything is going well and baby s growing great im quite happy to not have another scan on the nhs unless absolutely necessary as hopefully any extra scans i dont need someone who really needs extra scans can have. the nhs doesn't have endless money and we all get the scans we need extra scans should be strictly for people who need them.
the nhs saved my daughters life 7 yrs ago when she was first diagnosed with her diabetes type 1 i think they do a wonderful job on very little money x
 
Just saw this and I'm only a week from 3rd tri so just wanted to comment! :flower:

My first scan was fab at 12 weeks couldnt fault it at all! My second scan however at 21 weeks was rubbish. I was left for an hour with a horrendously painful full bladder because they'd "forgotten" I was there, the scan was rushed, the sonographer moaned about being understaffed all the way through it and made us feel like we were a burden. I got a tiny peek at bubs and that's it. I know it's not there for me to see bubs and it's a medical procedure but still compared to everyone else's scans at 20 weeks I was gutted.

In relation to the NHS pregnancy care in general, my mw is crap, I've only seen her 3 times in 26 weeks, she's forgetful and never does the things she's supposed to, I've only heard bubs hb once for about 10 seconds, the hospital have lost my blood results twice.....it goes on.

And whilst I appreciate that we are lucky we don't have to pay for insurance like in the US, that the NHS doesnt have an endless pot of money and that we have access to medical facilities that 3rd world countries don't, it really grates on my last nerve when people say it's free - it's not free at all, tax payers pay for it, albeit a smaller amount than insurance would cost us but still, it's not free and I think I deserve better treatment than what I've been lumbered with for my first pregnancy! In fact it's down right shoddy! I'm so disappointed compared with the care others have received.

And I've not had the best experience with the NHS in the past either not just with my pregnancy. I've been treated pretty poorly by surgeons and doctors (I have coeliac disease) that took 3.5 years to diagnose my coeliac disease because they wouldnt listen to me, not only have I suffered pain and illness for all that time but I've been put through unnecessary MRI scans and camera's in places cameras shouldnt go....but I digress, this is about scans on the NHS.

Personally I feel 3 scans would be more medically appropriate. After your 20 week scan they shoud do one about 32 weeks to check fetal growth and development etc.

But I've paid £70 for a gender scan and £100 for a 4D so I can see my bubs more than twice - I know not everyone is lucky enough to be able to afford extra private scans though xx
 
blimey your scans were dirt cheap! We've paid almost 500 for a downs nuchal scan and a wellbeing/4d scan.
 
Yeah the Nuchal scans are ridiculously expensive though with them being a specific medical proceudre rather than just a viewing of the baby - the 4D is usually £130 but I got a special deal and there's different types of package that cost more or less too :thumbup:
 
Ah I see what you mean, yeah both of ours were full medical with the fancy stuff thrown in. Fair enough I guess.
 
Yeah they said on my confirmation that the 4D or sexing scans are not there to check for any medical conditions - I think they have to get specialists in for the NT scans but £500 wow thats so expensive! Worth it for peace of mind I guess though.
 
I think it's so dear becuase they do all the meds stuff, it's a proper obs consultant women who does it, she did all bloods for me too. She was bloody marvellous, really looked after us :)
 
Aaargh been watching this thread debating whether or not to wade in!!!!

Trumpetbum I applaud your post!!!!!!!!!!! There, that pretty much covers my stance.

I guess I would add a couple of other thoughts as well... firstly the NHS is on a mission to de-medicalise normal deliveries and pregnancies. Secondly those who unfortunately do have issues are then given the care that is required and stepped up observations.
Thirdly do we need to condiser whether EVERYONE need extra scans for medical reasons? How many lives would be saved by every single pregnant woman having extra scans?
I do hear the views of some of the other girls that NHS bashing does seem to be a favourite stance to take by some!! Let it wash over you girls, YOU and I know we work really really hard and try to do a great job for our patients. The attitudinal issue of entitlement runs deep in the UK sadly, and is a tough one to tackle.
But here we are debating frequency of ultrasonography in pregnancy and I guess my bottom line is whether enough lives are saved by increasing scans in every single normal pregnancy to warrant a considerable time and expenditure burden? I suspect not I'm afraid!!!
Dont get me wrong, I love seeing my baby wriggle and wave at me...but is it REALLY necessary?
Pregnancy is a time of anxiety and worry but do maternal anxieties constitute a valid reason for a non medically essential procedure?
Interesting thread, but I fear it will be a contentious one and am expecting that wee padlock to appear before too long....!!!! :)
 
Its quite upsetting as an NHS worker when someone says the NHS is failing everybody really. Nurses, doctors, admin workers.. everyone works damn hard for not so great money and deal with not so nice situations every single day and to get told that we're failing is a right kick in the teeth. Not good.
 
£500 omg?!

I spent £40 for a dating scan and I got my reassurance and sexing scan for half price cos I had been before on the same pregnancy - it was £35 :D
 

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