Stop been so cheap!

[DottyLottie]

Oops

 

[DottyLottie]

There are some people in developing countries that get zero.

Of what relevance is this? We are not in developing countries, they have a whole set of problems we simply cannot relate to, including little or no healthcare.

It's like pointing out to someone who is going through a divorce, lost a baby or something that some people have no home, or some people have cancer, or some people are living in war zones, it is not consolation for anyones current plight. We all have our crosses to bare, I appreciate we should count our blessings, there is ALWAYS someone worse off, but what relevance does it really have in this discussion?

 

[DottyLottie]

Check this out - I will bet a lot of us brits are surprised to see the USA so far down on the list... it is a common misconception they have it better.

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
101 Moldova
102 Bulgaria
103 Iraq
104 Armenia
105 Latvia
106 Yugoslavia
107 Cook Islands
108 Syria
109 Azerbaijan
110 Suriname
111 Ecuador
112 India
113 Cape Verde
114 Georgia
115 El Salvador
116 Tonga
117 Uzbekistan
118 Comoros
119 Samoa
120 Yemen
121 Niue
122 Pakistan
123 Micronesia
124 Bhutan
125 Brazil
126 Bolivia
127 Vanuatu
128 Guyana
129 Peru
130 Russia
131 Honduras
132 Burkina Faso
133 Sao Tome and Principe
134 Sudan
135 Ghana
136 Tuvalu
137 Ivory Coast
138 Haiti
139 Gabon
140 Kenya
141 Marshall Islands
142 Kiribati
143 Burundi
144 China
145 Mongolia
146 Gambia
147 Maldives
148 Papua New Guinea
149 Uganda
150 Nepal
151 Kyrgystan
152 Togo
153 Turkmenistan
154 Tajikistan
155 Zimbabwe
156 Tanzania
157 Djibouti
158 Eritrea
159 Madagascar
160 Vietnam
161 Guinea
162 Mauritania
163 Mali
164 Cameroon
165 Laos
166 Congo
167 North Korea
168 Namibia
169 Botswana
170 Niger
171 Equatorial Guinea
172 Rwanda
173 Afghanistan
174 Cambodia
175 South Africa
176 Guinea-Bissau
177 Swaziland
178 Chad
179 Somalia
180 Ethiopia
181 Angola
182 Zambia
183 Lesotho
184 Mozambique
185 Malawi
186 Liberia
187 Nigeria
188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
189 Central African Republic
190 Myanmar

 

[ShanandBoc]

There are some people in developing countries that get zero.

Of what relevance is this? We are not in developing countries, they have a whole set of problems we simply cannot relate to, including little or no healthcare.

It's like pointing out to someone who is going through a divorce, lost a baby or something that some people have no home, or some people have cancer, or some people are living in war zones, it is not consolation for anyones current plight. We all have our crosses to bare, I appreciate we should count our blessings, there is ALWAYS someone worse off, but what relevance does it really have in this discussion?

Plenty imo. You hit the nail on the head....they have little or no healthcare, so is it so hard to be thankful for what you have! For me, that puts it in perspective which is why i dont sit here and complain

Australia is further down the list than the UK,and we have a good healthcare system (i have recieved excellent care from the public system in pregnancy)

 

[Serene123]

Well if you want to pay more taxes I guess that is upto you. I personally think the health care you get during pregnancy is FANTASTIC considering it is FREE.

Why scan everyone when they have a wonderful method that helps them find out who really needs more scans?

If you want more scans so desperately you can get private ones, and get your hands out of your own pockets, rather than everyone having to pay more taxes for something that isn't necessary.

 

[DottyLottie]

These stats are also interesting, they refer to how much each country actually spends on health care, interesting to note, that those that spend more do not necessarily have better health care.
https://www.photius.com/rankings/total_health_expenditure_as_pecent_of_gdp_2000_to_2005.html

 

[DottyLottie]

Well if you want to pay more taxes I guess that is upto you. I personally think the health care you get during pregnancy is FANTASTIC considering it is FREE.

Why scan everyone when they have a wonderful method that helps them find out who really needs more scans?

If you want more scans so desperately you can get private ones, and get your hands out of your own pockets, rather than everyone having to pay more taxes for something that isn't necessary.

But it is not FREE, why do you think you pay your taxes?

 

[forgodssake]

Post #158 (I can't quote such a long post on my phone):

"Constantly fails us" - are you serious?? Do you read The Daily Mail??

How many lives do you think the NHS saves every day? Your views have certainly been warped if this is really what you think of the NHS.

Like I said in my post that you have quoted, it's certainly not infallible but on a "what we get for what we pay" basis it's pretty bloody amazing!!! I couldn't cover the costs in THREE lifetimes for what it has done for my daughter!

Oh, I never said it was free either!!

 

[ShanandBoc]

I wonder how accurate thati s now tho 5 years later? Thanks for this tho.

 

[Serene123]

Well if you want to pay more taxes I guess that is upto you. I personally think the health care you get during pregnancy is FANTASTIC considering it is FREE.

Why scan everyone when they have a wonderful method that helps them find out who really needs more scans?

If you want more scans so desperately you can get private ones, and get your hands out of your own pockets, rather than everyone having to pay more taxes for something that isn't necessary.

But it is not FREE, why do you think you pay your taxes?

Other countries pay taxes and STILL don't get free healthcare.

They have more important things to spend money on than healthy babies. Like people who are DYING.

 

[pinklightbulb]

I got 4 scans, but 2 extra had to be done. I'm grateful for what I got and if it wasn't for our system here in Australia and I had to pay for those two extra scans at the end, I might not have bothered as I would have thought all was well. My baby was footling breech and it was missed all through midwife appts and all so if I had gone into natural labor my LO might not be here now or I could have even bled to death trying to deliver him naturally. So I am extremely grateful for what I got for free as I don't have much money and paying for extra would have been a stretch I hate to think what could have happened if we didn't have the healthcare system we have now and I didn't get those last scans.

 

[buttonnose82]

having worked in the NHS I find it deeply offensive when people refer to the NHS 'Constantly fails us', try seeing some of the things I and other NHS workers have seen, THEN come tell me it's 'failing' people!

 

[Serene123]

You can't save everyone tbh. It's just not realistic.

 

[Dragonfly]

I do think this varies in different areas, I had good anti natel care but not so good after care where as some had it bad all the way through and some had it great, all NHS. I cant speak for other countries.


As for other care outside anti natel i wasnt impressed at the waiting of a week my other half had to do in agony for an emergency op and the cheeky neglectful after care he had to. We are actually complaining about it it was so bad. But I am sure everyone has a story likethat with staff that just dont care, they are everywhere.

I dont think you can win here someone is always going to get the shit end of the stick where some dont. Some of us had both.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I got 4 scans, but 2 extra had to be done. I'm grateful for what I got and if it wasn't for our system here in Australia and I had to pay for those two extra scans at the end, I might not have bothered as I would have thought all was well. My baby was footling breech and it was missed all through midwife appts and all so if I had gone into natural labor my LO might not be here now or I could have even bled to death trying to deliver him naturally. So I am extremely grateful for what I got for free as I don't have much money and paying for extra would have been a stretch I hate to think what could have happened if we didn't have the healthcare system we have now and I didn't get those last scans.

Wow hunni glad things turn out ok. Like i said ive been very happy with my public healthcare in pregnancyin Aus. I dont think we in the western world can even fathom how lucky we arecompared to developing countries.

 

[DottyLottie]

Post #158 (I can't quote such a long post on my phone):

"Constantly fails us" - are you serious?? Do you read The Daily Mail??

How many lives do you think the NHS saves every day? Your views have certainly been warped if this is really what you think of the NHS.

Like I said in my post that you have quoted, it's certainly not infallible but on a "what we get for what we pay" basis it's pretty bloody amazing!!! I couldn't cover the costs in THREE lifetimes for what it has done for my daughter!

Oh, I never said it was free either!!

My views are not warped, they are very much informed.
I don't doubt that those working within the NHS (in the majority of cases) do their best to provide excellent care, but it is not as great as everyone suggests considering the amount of taxes we pay, it is not without fault, and huge failings are consistently reported left right and centre (and not just in the daily mail).
As we speak, one of my colleagues is off work caring for his daughter, because his wife has back problems, for which she is on a 6-12 month waiting list for treatment, she is bed ridden, how is that a brilliant service?

Millions of people are denied life saving drugs because the NHS will not provide them.
Every single day there are posts on this forum about women who fail to receive adequate maternity care.
People are regularly turfed out of hospitals due to lack of beds, or leave hospital more sick due to poor hygiene.
My nearest hospital has one of the highest infant mortality rate in the country, but I am supposed to be thankful because it is free???
I have had two scans, both were delayed by over a month because there were no appointments available sooner, same for my midwife appointments, where I am marched in and out in under 5 minutes and I thank my lucky stars I am not a first time mother, because then I truly would despair.

Perhaps if people took notice of the apparent issues, and fought for change, we would see our health services improve. I cannot understand anyones blind acceptance of what it is, because it might be a bit better than another country, or some people get no health care so who are we to complain? Those kind of attitudes perpetrate bad service, and hold up the evolution of change that is MUCH needed in the NHS.

I am proud to be British, but that doesn't mean I don't strive for my country to be better, and it doesn't mean I should not believe it CAN be better, but you can bet it won't ever get better unless people demand it!

 

[Ju_bubbs]

I'm very grateful to get free 12 and 20wk scans tbh, a lot of countries have to pay for them, or need to have health isurance to be able to get them, we dot have to have anythig like that! Ofcourse more scans would be lovely, I'm not saying I'd not want to be able to see my baby on the screen ever day if I could, but there are private scans available if you want to see baby more.

I'm sure a lot of women who do get extra free scans for various reasons would much rather have a 'normal' healthy pregancy that meant they only got the 2 scans, I now I'd ratehr have just the 2, and leave some extra money for the wome who NEED more scans for health reasons, the nhs are pushed for money as it is.

The NHS may not be absolutely brilliant, but I'm very grateful that its there or I wouldn't be able to afford any scans at all!

 

[Serene123]

Maybe first you should work on getting all the lazy bums off job seekers so there's more taxes and more money going into the NHS? Lets face it, not everyone using the NHS pays into it and that puts a massive strain on them.

 

[Blah11]

Well if you want to pay more taxes I guess that is upto you. I personally think the health care you get during pregnancy is FANTASTIC considering it is FREE.

Why scan everyone when they have a wonderful method that helps them find out who really needs more scans?

If you want more scans so desperately you can get private ones, and get your hands out of your own pockets, rather than everyone having to pay more taxes for something that isn't necessary.

But it is not FREE, why do you think you pay your taxes?

Do you seriously think all our taxes pay for the NHS or something A TINY proportion is for the NHS.

 

[Pearls18]

The NHS should get their hand out their pockets ...

My point?

well in some countrys you get a scan every 4 weeks... here you get 2 or 3 max and thats your lot (unless they have concerns) instead what do they do here...use such a stupid inacurate device of measuring your fundal height and relying on that for babys growth... well im sorry but half the midwifes ive come across either measure diff/wrong to one another... or just did it briefly and ended up with a meh itl be reet attitude then the others turn around and go "ooooh we will keep an eye on that" majority of the time there is nothing wrong with babys size!!! how can they possibly rely on this!?!?!? if baby has his bum stuck up then obvs the fundal height is going to be higher!!! it just seems to me instead of been so cheap they should be offering a scan to check growth etc every 4 weeks!!! not just that but to make sure there is no further problems with placenta/cord or baby! and to check fluid!...

anyone else agree?

Sorry but no, I dont - you have ALL your healthcare needs taken care off for either free or a small deduction from your wages - how many "other countries" can say that?

Point us in the direction that says the fundal measrements / doppler tests / usual checks put babies at risk and I may be inclined to think again.

Ok, the NHS isnt infallible but I would take it over many, if not most other systems any day of the week and too many "Brits" arent thankful for what is available to us.

Why should we be "thankful" for a system that consistently fails us.

Please speak for yourself and not for everyone else. I have never felt like the NHS have failed me. I appreciate it's not fantastic in all areas geographically or departmentally, but I have received FANTASTIC care in my pregnancy. They were BRILLIANT with my grandmother when she was in and out of different hopitals for over a decade with strokes, my aunt survived breast cancer on the NHS and certain female members have had annual mammograms since their 30s due to this to be monitored. I could go on and on with all the ways they've helped me. Yes it's expensive, no it isn't perfect, there is a lot that could be done to improve and I disagree with a lot of issues within the NHS but I am and always will be grateful for the service and am bored of hearing ppl slagging it off. Ppl who don't always have first hand experience but spend too much time reading crappy papers being fed inaccurate dribble from the media just going along with line "oh the NHS is crap" bla bla. Having lived in America WITH insurance and being ill there, I will always cherish our NHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!