Suicide - Bravery or Cowardly?

[Ozzieshunni]

Suicide and depression education is so important for teens, but anti-bullying education is a great start for younger kids. There will always be bullies, unfortunately, but it's up to parents and educators to make sure the proper education is put into place.

 

[AppleBlossom]

Suicide is selfish. When you take your own life, your problems are over. But you leave behind family and friends who will always question but never know answer, blame themselves... It's not cowardly, I think you have to have "guts" to do it. Lots of people threaten to do it but never do. I have contemplated it at one time or another but then I realised what a mess I would leave behind.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Suicide is selfish. When you take your own life, your problems are over. But you leave behind family and friends who will always question but never know answer, blame themselves... It's not cowardly, I think you have to have "guts" to do it. Lots of people threaten to do it but never do. I have contemplated it at one time or another but then I realised what a mess I would leave behind.

I think you need to go back and read my post about my godsister who had a BIOLOGICAL depression. She was in no way selfish. Her family did everything to help her and understand what she was going through and my godmother even admitted that in a way, she knew my godsister would try again. It hurts so badly to see you say that as a generalization.

 

[AppleBlossom]

Suicide is selfish. When you take your own life, your problems are over. But you leave behind family and friends who will always question but never know answer, blame themselves... It's not cowardly, I think you have to have "guts" to do it. Lots of people threaten to do it but never do. I have contemplated it at one time or another but then I realised what a mess I would leave behind.

I think you need to go back and read my post about my godsister who had a BIOLOGICAL depression. She was in no way selfish. Her family did everything to help her and understand what she was going through and my godmother even admitted that in a way, she knew my godsister would try again. It hurts so badly to see you say that as a generalization.

Sorry, I only read OP. I meant suicide in general not as an individal situation. I'm sorry if you're offended by my opinion but that's just how I see it on the whole

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Suicide is selfish. When you take your own life, your problems are over. But you leave behind family and friends who will always question but never know answer, blame themselves... It's not cowardly, I think you have to have "guts" to do it. Lots of people threaten to do it but never do. I have contemplated it at one time or another but then I realised what a mess I would leave behind.

I think you need to go back and read my post about my godsister who had a BIOLOGICAL depression. She was in no way selfish. Her family did everything to help her and understand what she was going through and my godmother even admitted that in a way, she knew my godsister would try again. It hurts so badly to see you say that as a generalization.

Sorry, I only read OP. I meant suicide in general not as an individal situation. I'm sorry if you're offended by my opinion but that's just how I see it on the whole

Suicide should be taken on a case by case basis because every case is different with different circumstances.

 

[AppleBlossom]

Suicide is selfish. When you take your own life, your problems are over. But you leave behind family and friends who will always question but never know answer, blame themselves... It's not cowardly, I think you have to have "guts" to do it. Lots of people threaten to do it but never do. I have contemplated it at one time or another but then I realised what a mess I would leave behind.

I think you need to go back and read my post about my godsister who had a BIOLOGICAL depression. She was in no way selfish. Her family did everything to help her and understand what she was going through and my godmother even admitted that in a way, she knew my godsister would try again. It hurts so badly to see you say that as a generalization.

Sorry, I only read OP. I meant suicide in general not as an individal situation. I'm sorry if you're offended by my opinion but that's just how I see it on the whole

Suicide should be taken on a case by case basis because every case is different with different circumstances.

Maybe so but like I said, it's my opinion. If you kill yourself to solve your own problems knowing that you're leaving behind all those people with unanswered questions then that to me is selfish. I read your story and it truely is sad and I'm sorry to hear that your godmother had to go through that

 

[Pixxie]

I tried to take an overdose when I was 14 as I was severely depressed. At the time I thought I was making everyone unhappy and they would be better off without me. I was also drinking, taking drugs and self harming. At the time I thought I was doing the best thing for everyone by taking my life, it's just how the depression makes you feel.

I do however now think suicide is selfish, the people left behind are the ones who suffer more in the end. My best friends mum was a heroin addict, they had an argument one day and later that night her mum took an overdose. My friend was 15, you can't imagine how it affected her to know the last thing she said to her mum was 'I hate you, I wish you were dead' My friend then became depressed, was self harming, drinking, taking drugs and eventually developed a eating disorder which would have killed her if she hadn't got help when she did.

While I understand how these people feel when they attempt suicide, now I'm better and have seen what it does to those left behind I can only think it's selfish xx

 

[Curlybug]

Hello
I am a junior psychiatrist and I find peoples comments on here very interesting. I am quite worried at the amount of stigma.
As you can imagine, Ive seen loads of people usually very soon after a suicide attempt. And thats the main point - they are normal people, its less of a them and us. I think in bad circumstances, everyone has a tipping point (different for different people, like height for example) where they become unwell mentally. It is hard to imagine what that would feel like if you havn't been there.
A difficulty with patients in psychiatry is that they don't always seek to get better in the same way that people with other illnesses might and their normal communication may be disrupted. Also they may abuse drugs/alcohol which others feel they should be able to control. This means that they are more likely to be blamed for being ill than people with other conditions that are easier to understand.

There is chemistry behind it too - changes in chemical levels in the brain on post-mortem, changes in brain activity on scans. 50% of depressed people have abnormally raised stress hormone on testing. Disturbance in sleep rhythms and appetite can be there. Its a proper illness, we are just a bit behind on the blood tests compared to diabetes. I think its a continuum from normal to unwell that a lot of people are on (with the same for schizophrenia, addictions, bipolar, other conditions that have increased risk of suicide).

Not that I think it can't be helped (otherwise why would I be doing this job!). There are chemical and psychological therapies that do help in a lot of people. Yes, that includes psychological therapies that improve coping techniques and cognitive restructuring. That changes brain chemistry too (part of the mystery of being human).

Just what I feel from what I know so far.

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[andbabymakes3]

I had a big disagreement with my friends about a similar subject not that long ago. I was speaking about those who have to deal with the loss of a child (which I just have no idea how you can deal with) and I was quite open with my view that I couldn't live in a world without my baby girl.

Now, I don't expect people to agree with me, in fact, a lot disagree, but God forbid if I ever lost Holly, I would be with her soon after. I know for a fact that I couldn't physically or mentally cope without her. Speaking to my dad about this, he oddly enough said he and my mum made a similar 'decision' when I was a child that if they lost me, they would not be able to live without me.

Before Holly, there was nothing in the world that would ever drive me to feel this way, but since having her, and living my life with her in it (which is the most precious and amazing thing I have ever experienced), I know I couldn't carry on without her.

I totally admire the strength of women (and men) who cope with the loss of a child. But I know I wouldn't be able to.

 

[PeanutBean]

Andbaby I understand where you are coming from though I know I wouldn't act that way. I think having more children helps in that situation as you have other kids to live for. When I was first pregnant I hypothesised various horrendous situations, as seems to come so naturally when pregnant, and found that in a Casualty type mum or baby scenario I'd rather DH choose me so we could try again and so he wouldn't have to struggle alone. Now I have Byron I feel it all the more strongly because he should have his mum. It's not the same as losing a child I know but the principle is there.

 

[andbabymakes3]

I don't know if it's more so because it's just me and Holly, and because I know she will be my only baby...I just know I couldn't be without her.

 

[Pricey]

"A permanent solution to a temporary problem"

Good words I think, surely there's nothing that can't be talked about?

 

[annawrigley]

Is every problem temporary?

 

[Serenity81]

I have spoken to many people in recent months about suicide as in July/August of this year 7 young people took their own life in Dundee over the period of one month. It shocked the whole city and reading press coverage and watching tv interviews with the families left behind was heartbreaking. One of the victims father pleaded with other young people not to devastate their families by doing what his son did. He went on to say that he was now taking anti-depressants and on sleeping tablets because his life was a living hell without his son. Another issue for the families were the unanswered questions of why they did it and at that time all I could think about was how selfish these people had been to do this to their heartbroken families. Their pain may have gone but it was passed on to their family instead and now they will have to live the rest of their lives suffering and grieving for the loved one they lost.
However, I completely agree that someone who is suffering from severe depression or other mental illness isn't thinking in the same competent, rational manner that we are and only want their way out and the suffering and pain to end. I can see it from both sides but I do think that it must be absolutely awful to be so mentally unwell that the only option you have is to end your own existance and I don't think I'll ever be able to understand that.....I can't possibly because I've never been there. It is so very very sad for everyone involved xx

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Again, sometimes there is no amount of medicine or therapy that can help, as in my godsister's case. It was biological (look it up). Her parents took her EVERYWHERE looking for help/advice/answers and the result was always the same. Please don't discount this small group of people that really can't get the help they need

 

[SKATERBUN]

Hello
I am a junior psychiatrist and I find peoples comments on here very interesting. I am quite worried at the amount of stigma.
As you can imagine, Ive seen loads of people usually very soon after a suicide attempt. And thats the main point - they are normal people, its less of a them and us. I think in bad circumstances, everyone has a tipping point (different for different people, like height for example) where they become unwell mentally. It is hard to imagine what that would feel like if you havn't been there.
A difficulty with patients in psychiatry is that they don't always seek to get better in the same way that people with other illnesses might and their normal communication may be disrupted. Also they may abuse drugs/alcohol which others feel they should be able to control. This means that they are more likely to be blamed for being ill than people with other conditions that are easier to understand.

There is chemistry behind it too - changes in chemical levels in the brain on post-mortem, changes in brain activity on scans. 50% of depressed people have abnormally raised stress hormone on testing. Disturbance in sleep rhythms and appetite can be there. Its a proper illness, we are just a bit behind on the blood tests compared to diabetes. I think its a continuum from normal to unwell that a lot of people are on (with the same for schizophrenia, addictions, bipolar, other conditions that have increased risk of suicide).

Not that I think it can't be helped (otherwise why would I be doing this job!). There are chemical and psychological therapies that do help in a lot of people. Yes, that includes psychological therapies that improve coping techniques and cognitive restructuring. That changes brain chemistry too (part of the mystery of being human).

Just what I feel from what I know so far.

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https://global.thebump.com/tickers/ttad007.aspx

Thanks for this

This is what worries me about this thread. Like Ozzieshunni said its the generalisation that gets me and the lack of understanding of mental illness.
Its not black and white and labeling shouldnt really come into it, brave selfish whatever, at the end of the day a poor helpless person has felt that taking their own precious life is the only way possible to escape the dispair - irrespective of who they are leaving behind
Suicide for me is a bit of an emotive subject really so guess I shouldnt of really read the thread tbh

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Very well said hun xx

 

[aliss]

Here is my take as a 911 operator who has spoken with many suicidal people, including ones that have actually completed suicide (I have had people jump out windows, off bridges, and shoot themselves while trying to talk them out of it).

There is no selfishness in those who complete suicide. They are ill - VERY ill - and they do not do it for selfish reasons - they do it, for what they often perceive, as very unselfish reasons. They do not wish to burden others with their problems, behaviours, etc. It is a state of mind that you cannot possibly imagine unless you have been there.

Yes, there are people who use suicidal statements/actions as selfish manipulation (ie. cutting your wrists very superficially every night and yelling at family "see! this is because of YOU!"), that in itself, is in a completely different category. Mental instability yes, but not comparable to those who actually complete suicide. Yes, those people sometimes get to the point where they actually do kill themselves. It's very difficult to understand who is truly at risk, so it's best to assume all are.

It's a very complex issue.

 

[hopeandpray]

To me suicide is selfish.I don't think that people that attempt or commit suicide are bad people but when they do it they are doing something that they consider 'good' for themselves while hurting everybody else. The people doing it may think people are better off without them but it is almost never true. I know that there are alot of people that cannot help being depressed. Trust me, I have depression as a result of my genetics, I had it as a child even so I do understand how awful the disease is. I had huge periods of times where I didn't want to live, as disgusting as this sound I used to hope that I'd get cancer because then that would let me die and my family wouldn't feel as bad about it as if it was suicide. When I was depressed I didn't value my life very highly, I valued the people I loved more than I valued myself and I knew if i commited suicide that I would ruin their lives, so I didn't.
Permanant solution to a temporary solution fits a lot of situations, a 14 year old girl from my brother and sisters school killed herself because her boyfriend dumped her. What a huge waste of a life. I think that it is a very tiny fraction of cases of depression that cannot be helped in any way and I really hope that medicine will advance so that these people can be helped too. My depression would have been considered 'biological' but that does not in any way mean that it could not be helped

 

[Ozzieshunni]

To me suicide is selfish.I don't think that people that attempt or commit suicide are bad people but when they do it they are doing something that they consider 'good' for themselves while hurting everybody else. The people doing it may think people are better off without them but it is almost never true. I know that there are alot of people that cannot help being depressed. Trust me, I have depression as a result of my genetics, I had it as a child even so I do understand how awful the disease is. I had huge periods of times where I didn't want to live, as disgusting as this sound I used to hope that I'd get cancer because then that would let me die and my family wouldn't feel as bad about it as if it was suicide. When I was depressed I didn't value my life very highly, I valued the people I loved more than I valued myself and I knew if i commited suicide that I would ruin their lives, so I didn't.
Permanant solution to a temporary solution fits a lot of situations, a 14 year old girl from my brother and sisters school killed herself because her boyfriend dumped her. What a huge waste of a life. I think that it is a very tiny fraction of cases of depression that cannot be helped in any way and I really hope that medicine will advance so that these people can be helped too. My depression would have been considered 'biological' but that does not in any way mean that it could not be helped

This is very untrue. Look up real biological depression. It is engrained in your brain chemistry and CANNOT be changed. I have to say I'm very angered by this.