Surrogacy

[lhancock90]

I was using my example to say that two and a bit years is a very short time to decide you're infertile.

I'm not even going to get into the closed minded things I've read in this thread.

Tasha I wish you all the best...I really do! I can't wait to hear good news from you!

I missed this the first time round. But i am horrified and upset that this woman. Who clearly has no concept of infertility is making this sort of comment. What right do you have Piper,to determine the time limit of deciding infertility. Some of your comments on this thread have been incredibly offensive, their sre same sex couple parents here, surrogates, single mothers, women with fertility issues who, should they come across this thread i imagine would be absolutely heartbroken at some of your old fashioned judgements.

 

[Piper84]

I was using my example to say that two and a bit years is a very short time to decide you're infertile.

I'm not even going to get into the closed minded things I've read in this thread.

Tasha I wish you all the best...I really do! I can't wait to hear good news from you!

I missed this the first time round. But i am horrified and upset that this woman. Who clearly has no concept of infertility is making this sort of comment. What right do you have Piper,to determine the time limit of deciding infertility. Some of your comments on this thread have been incredibly offensive, their sre same sex couple parents here, surrogates, single mothers, women with fertility issues who, should they come across this thread i imagine would be absolutely heartbroken at some of your old fashioned judgements.

Don't presume to tell me what I know and don't know about infertility. Just because I don't tell all to people online I've never met, doesn't mean you or anyone else gets to claim the moral highground on every subject I dare to disagree with the majority on. I'm also not stuck in 1840, as you seem to think. I am not the only person with reservations about children being treated as commodities. Commercial surrogacy is only legal in a few states in the US, let alone in the world. There is a lot of reasoning behind that and a lot of it has to do with the ethics of buying a child from a woman fresh from the labour ward.

I know from the PMs I've got that I'm not the only one with doubts about this, so for those reading the thread and not wanting to be shouted down for daring to disagree, here are a few interesting links:

Interesting blog by a man who was a surrogate baby and the effect it has had on him, incidentally also the abuse he received for daring to question surrogacy.
Piece in the Daily Telegraph about Hollywood surrogacy and the tendency to delay trying to conceive at childbearing age for the sake of career.
The theory of the fourth trimester
An article from the Joseph and Rosa Kennedy Institute of Ethics on the ethics of surrogacy.
Article on the commercial surrogacy trade in India, one of the few other countries in the world that allow commercial surrogacy, mainly reserved for "reproductive tourism", i.e. rich westerners.

I find the lack of discussion here about surrogacy depressing. It's either "I was ****** [insert unfortunate circumstance], so you talking about it offends me, because you could not possibly what you're talking about because it only happened to me" or a rose-tinted view about the warm and fuzzy feeling of giving away a baby to a same-sex couple, who are all, apparently without exception, wonderful, loving, caring parents and just the same as a biological mother, and if you don't share this view you're a homophobic monster stuck in the dark ages

 

[lhancock90]

I think, if you don't want to misjudged, misread or misunderstood, reword your posts because at the moment you are not coming off quite rude, judgemental and dismissive of anyone who doesn't agree with you (works both ways..)

 

[Tasha]

I find the lack of discussion here about surrogacy depressing. It's either "I was ****** [insert unfortunate circumstance], so you talking about it offends me, because you could not possibly what you're talking about because it only happened to me" or a rose-tinted view about the warm and fuzzy feeling of giving away a baby to a same-sex couple, who are all, apparently without exception, wonderful, loving, caring parents and just the same as a biological mother, and if you don't share this view you're a homophobic monster stuck in the dark ages

Okay that is clearly a dig at me considering I am the only who has said about me having having multiple miscarriages and said I am the only one I know of that is considering surrogacy/I didnt know someone else on here has had twelve miscarriages. I was just giving my side that I have spoken to hundreds and hundreds of women who have multiple loses and I am the only one I have seen consider this route.

You did come across as if you thought you knew what women with recurrent loses would do, and I was sharing another angle. I never said I was offended about your opinion though.

 

[Tasha]

Zan, thank you x

 

[zanDark]

I find the lack of discussion here about surrogacy depressing. It's either "I was ****** [insert unfortunate circumstance], so you talking about it offends me, because you could not possibly what you're talking about because it only happened to me" or a rose-tinted view about the warm and fuzzy feeling of giving away a baby to a same-sex couple, who are all, apparently without exception, wonderful, loving, caring parents and just the same as a biological mother, and if you don't share this view you're a homophobic monster stuck in the dark ages

I'm sorry but how can you tell people not to make assumptions about you, when you think it's perfectly fine to make assumptions about other people (celebrities, gay couples, etc)?! You don't want people to make assumptions about you since you haven't shared information...what makes it right for you to judge the celebrities you mentioned? How do you know they can carry a pregnancy to term? That their previous birth wasn't extremely traumatic for them? Maybe they haven't shared all of the information with the world either!! Practice what you preach, or don't preach at all.

The only reason this thread has wandered off the topic of surrogacy is because people felt the need to respond to your posts about who is or isn't suitable to be a parent! Of course instead of explaining that "no I didn't mean it in a bad way" you choose to insult even more people, and basically take back what you've said in other posts?

There is not ONE person on this planet that has been affected by infertility (either directly or via someone they love) that would blurt out that people shouldn't rush to class themselves as infertile after 2 years...yet you know all about it but don't want to share with a bunch of strangers on the net...right.

I don't think your issues are with same sex couples, or surrogates...you seem to keep coming back to money...people with money obviously irk you for some reason! That doesn't mean you can insinuate that people with money can buy a healthy pregnancy! It's insulting to all the parents that have ever lost a child!!

Doesn't Gary Barlow have money? He and his wife suffered a stillbirth.
Doesn't Khloe Kardashian have money? She suffers from infertility
Doesn't Giuliana Rancic have money? She had a miscarriage after IVF and was diagnosed with breast cancer...which is why she used a surrogate
Nicole Kidman who irks you so much and should have adopted...already has two adopted children!

Saying that someone with money should be able to carry their own pregnancy to term is one of the most horrific things I have read on BnB.

 

[Tasha]

I'm sorry but how can you tell people not to make assumptions about you, when you think it's perfectly fine to make assumptions about other people (celebrities, gay couples, etc)?! You don't want people to make assumptions about you since you haven't shared information...what makes it right for you to judge the celebrities you mentioned? How do you know they can carry a pregnancy to term? That their previous birth wasn't extremely traumatic for them? Maybe they haven't shared all of the information with the world either!! Practice what you preach, or don't preach at all.

The only reason this thread has wandered off the topic of surrogacy is because people felt the need to respond to your posts about who is or isn't suitable to be a parent! Of course instead of explaining that "no I didn't mean it in a bad way" you choose to insult even more people, and basically take back what you've said in other posts?

There is not ONE person on this planet that has been affected by infertility (either directly or via someone they love) that would blurt out that people shouldn't rush to class themselves as infertile after 2 years...yet you know all about it but don't want to share with a bunch of strangers on the net...right.

I don't think your issues are with same sex couples, or surrogates...you seem to keep coming back to money...people with money obviously irk you for some reason! That doesn't mean you can insinuate that people with money can buy a healthy pregnancy! It's insulting to all the parents that have ever lost a child!!

Doesn't Gary Barlow have money? He and his wife suffered a stillbirth.
Doesn't Khloe Kardashian have money? She suffers from infertility
Doesn't Giuliana Rancic have money? She had a miscarriage after IVF and was diagnosed with breast cancer...which is why she used a surrogate
Nicole Kidman who irks you so much and should have adopted...already has two adopted children!

Saying that someone with money should be able to carry their own pregnancy to term is one of the most horrific things I have read on BnB.

Great post. Thank you.

 

[TriChick]

I was using my example to say that two and a bit years is a very short time to decide you're infertile.

I'm not even going to get into the closed minded things I've read in this thread.

Tasha I wish you all the best...I really do! I can't wait to hear good news from you!

I missed this the first time round. But i am horrified and upset that this woman. Who clearly has no concept of infertility is making this sort of comment. What right do you have Piper,to determine the time limit of deciding infertility. Some of your comments on this thread have been incredibly offensive, their sre same sex couple parents here, surrogates, single mothers, women with fertility issues who, should they come across this thread i imagine would be absolutely heartbroken at some of your old fashioned judgements.

Don't presume to tell me what I know and don't know about infertility. Just because I don't tell all to people online I've never met, doesn't mean you or anyone else gets to claim the moral highground on every subject I dare to disagree with the majority on. I'm also not stuck in 1840, as you seem to think. I am not the only person with reservations about children being treated as commodities. Commercial surrogacy is only legal in a few states in the US, let alone in the world. There is a lot of reasoning behind that and a lot of it has to do with the ethics of buying a child from a woman fresh from the labour ward.

I know from the PMs I've got that I'm not the only one with doubts about this, so for those reading the thread and not wanting to be shouted down for daring to disagree, here are a few interesting links:

Interesting blog by a man who was a surrogate baby and the effect it has had on him, incidentally also the abuse he received for daring to question surrogacy.
Piece in the Daily Telegraph about Hollywood surrogacy and the tendency to delay trying to conceive at childbearing age for the sake of career.
The theory of the fourth trimester
An article from the Joseph and Rosa Kennedy Institute of Ethics on the ethics of surrogacy.
Article on the commercial surrogacy trade in India, one of the few other countries in the world that allow commercial surrogacy, mainly reserved for "reproductive tourism", i.e. rich westerners.

I find the lack of discussion here about surrogacy depressing. It's either "I was ****** [insert unfortunate circumstance], so you talking about it offends me, because you could not possibly what you're talking about because it only happened to me" or a rose-tinted view about the warm and fuzzy feeling of giving away a baby to a same-sex couple, who are all, apparently without exception, wonderful, loving, caring parents and just the same as a biological mother, and if you don't share this view you're a homophobic monster stuck in the dark ages

But Piper, we presumed to know what you knew about infertility based on the sheer amount of inaccurate information you provided. If you know so much, why didn't you come to the table with THAT information instead?

In addition, I still get the feeling you don't understand that these children also belong to the father.
You tend to underestimate the intelligence of the women on this forum but constantly claiming that we have "misread things" or make grossly inaccurate assumptions about you by simply reading what you write word for word. I'm noticing a disturbing pattern.

 

[TriChick]

We aren't claiming moral high ground, we are claiming knowledge and acceptance for loving parents from a multitude of backgrounds.

There are other posters on here who expressed that they aren't in favor of surrogacy, and their opinions have been resepected. It's the misinformation, ignorance, and discrimination that many women find hard to swallow. To be honest, there has been so much back peddling that I am finding it increasingly harder to keep your posts straight.

Let's not start on what's "depressing" about this discussion, shall we?

 

[marley2580]

I used to think that surrogacy was a selfless and wonderful thing to do for someone. But the more I look into it, and the more I learn about the kids up for adoption, the more I disagree with surrogacy. I have a close friend that is in a same sex relationship and they are thinking about surrogacy in the future, but I can't help but feel that it's a selfish path to go down.

Let me just say now, that my views on surrogacy are the same regardless of sexual orientation, it just so happens that he is the only person I know that's thinking of surrogacy.

I just feel that there are so many children out there that are in the care system and are so desperate for a family that will love them, that to go to all the trouble and expense of surrogacy is a bit selfish. That said I do understand why people want their 'own' child, I am having those feelings again(!) but if I could adopt a baby/wee one then I really would as I hate being pregnant. I do feel, however, that the adoption process needs a real shake up - I couldn't adopt if I wanted to as the child wouldn't have their own room!

 

[NellyLou]

I used to think that surrogacy was a selfless and wonderful thing to do for someone. But the more I look into it, and the more I learn about the kids up for adoption, the more I disagree with surrogacy. I have a close friend that is in a same sex relationship and they are thinking about surrogacy in the future, but I can't help but feel that it's a selfish path to go down.

Let me just say now, that my views on surrogacy are the same regardless of sexual orientation, it just so happens that he is the only person I know that's thinking of surrogacy.

I just feel that there are so many children out there that are in the care system and are so desperate for a family that will love them, that to go to all the trouble and expense of surrogacy is a bit selfish. That said I do understand why people want their 'own' child, I am having those feelings again(!) but if I could adopt a baby/wee one then I really would as I hate being pregnant. I do feel, however, that the adoption process needs a real shake up - I couldn't adopt if I wanted to as the child wouldn't have their own room!

I don't think it's fair to say that people should adopt instead of going down the surrogacy route. As you say, the adoption process can be very long and difficult which is why so many people who do adopt choose to adopt from other countries. You wouldn't tell someone they should adopt instead of getting pregnant and having their own baby, so I don't think you can use this logic for people who choose surrogacy. And really, aren't we all selfish for wanting children?

 

[Tasha]

Marley we couldnt adopt for that reason and other silly rules put in place too.

 

[Tasha]

I don't think it's fair to say that people should adopt instead of going down the surrogacy route. As you say, the adoption process can be very long and difficult which is why so many people who do adopt choose to adopt from other countries. You wouldn't tell someone they should adopt instead of getting pregnant and having their own baby, so I don't think you can use this logic for people who choose surrogacy. And really, aren't we all selfish for wanting children?

Oh, interesting post. Ive never looked at it that way but yes you are right, in that case shouldnt everyone's first port of call be adoption rather than just people with fertility issues.

 

[NellyLou]

I don't think it's fair to say that people should adopt instead of going down the surrogacy route. As you say, the adoption process can be very long and difficult which is why so many people who do adopt choose to adopt from other countries. You wouldn't tell someone they should adopt instead of getting pregnant and having their own baby, so I don't think you can use this logic for people who choose surrogacy. And really, aren't we all selfish for wanting children?

Oh, interesting post. Ive never looked at it that way but yes you are right, in that case shouldnt everyone's first port of call be adoption rather than just people with fertility issues.

The thing is too that the kids who are waiting to be adopted are older... There aren't babies waiting to be adopted. Unfortunately not just any person can take on the adoption of an older child. It takes a very special parent to adopt a child who has been through the foster system etc. (Does anyone watch Parenthood? lol)

 

[Tasha]

I havent but I agree.

 

[TriChick]

Prior to joining the military, I was a live-in nanny for a foster family. I completely agree with you Marley that the adoption system in general needs major revision. We had a few children who were with us due to the fact that their prospective adoptive parents were being forced to jump through hoops for months, if not years

 

[NellyLou]

Prior to joining the military, I was a live-in nanny for a foster family. I completely agree with you Marley that the adoption system in general needs major revision. We had a few childre who were with us due to the fact that their prospective adoptive parents were being forced to jump through hoops for months, if not years

THat is so sad. The system really needs to be fixed. If they have people that want to adopt them, the children should be with them!

 

[TriChick]

Prior to joining the military, I was a live-in nanny for a foster family. I completely agree with you Marley that the adoption system in general needs major revision. We had a few childre who were with us due to the fact that their prospective adoptive parents were being forced to jump through hoops for months, if not years

THat is so sad. The system really needs to be fixed. If they have people that want to adopt them, the children should be with them!

I completely agree. What was even more heartbreaking were the times that the adoptions would fall through (many times due to silly reasons like the example Marley gave). The parents and children would form a strong and loving bond, yet ultimately be forced to walk away from one another

 

[TriChick]

I wanted to add that, surprisingly enough, surrogacy is sometimes the less expensive option out of the two as well.

The cost of adoption is astounding many times It's so unfortunate, as the heavy price tag proves to be a deterrent for many loving people who would otherwise adopt in a heartbeat but many not have the financial means to make it a reality. Even in the case of foster-care adoption, many of the allowances offered by the state are either hard to obtain, or cap out early in the fiscal year.

 

[whit.]

I think this is one of the most ridiculous threads I have ever read.

ANYONE, no matter if they are rich or poor - straight or gay - has the RIGHT to decide for themselves - (without others judging their decision) if they want to have a surrogate mother OR adopt.

Who cares if celebrities (no matter if they have fertility issues or not) choose to have a surrogate? That is no ones business but their own. Everyone should have the option to have a baby of their own.

Also some of the contradictions/hypocrisy in this thread is ridiculous.