Swine Flu Vaccine - Pandemrix or Celvapan Jab - yes or no?

[Xanthe]

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned David Iyke! oOPS! It was an interesting read and I didn't take it literally...each to their own eh! Who knows what's true and what's not. Just be as informed as possible is my philosophy...
xxxx

You did nowt wrong love........... it was others who got really silly about it.

People need to look beyond the information that is given to them. Its quite simple really.

 

[JessiHD]

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned David Iyke! oOPS! It was an interesting read and I didn't take it literally...each to their own eh! Who knows what's true and what's not. Just be as informed as possible is my philosophy...
xxxx

You did nowt wrong love........... it was others who got really silly about it.

People need to look beyond the information that is given to them. Its quite simple really.

I was only joking about the vaccine turning us into reptiles, I hope you didn't take offence as I was just being silly. I really agree that we need to challenge the evidence presented to us and it is a hotly debated topic even amoungst our doctors. Even if David Iyke has some pretty out there theories, it doesn't mean that he is always wrong. Most of the pro vaccine information in the UK is coming from the Government and we can't always trust them to tell us the truth! There is a really interesting article in the British Medical Journal about the H1N1 vaccine and consent:

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2009/11/1...med-consent-the-doctor-and-h1n1-immunisation/


My favourite section is how reliable is the data:

"The origins of Department of Health data are not as transparent as published research. The information is as trustworthy as any recent UK government information. Evidence for the effectiveness of influenza vaccines is not very strong. There is no strong evidence from randomised controlled trials and observational have major weaknesses. A sceptical view is that, “Evidence from systematic reviews shows that inactivated vaccines have little or no effect on the effects measured”."

 

[Carmela]

Hi all,

Last month I received a call from the surgery and was told that I was first in their list for swine flu vaccinations as I was pregnant. I was supposed to have the vaccine 2 weeks ago but said that I was affraid of having it after having read some worrying things about it. I was informed that if I decided to have it, I should ring them before the beginning of December as there is another vaccination date at that time.

So last month I was searching for topics like this like mad but only found you yesterday and still have not managed to read the whole thread fully (but getting there). Thank you for such a useful thread.

I am 23 weeks pregnant now. I read here that no pregnant women have reported any big problems after receiving the vaccine. I read that the swine flu vaccines have not been tested properly and I can't help thinking - what if the side effects take some time to manifest, or if they become more apparent when the baby is born? How is one to determine if some illness, that happened later, was not related to this jab?

Do I make sense or am I just being paranoid?

 

[Windmills]

I really don't know what to do, I assumed I'd been bypassed as I'm otherwise healthy and I live in an area with a LOT of old people so thought they'd be first priority. However, I've just received a phone call asking me to make an appointment for the vaccine- I booked in on Monday at 11am, but I'm not sure whether I'll phone and cancel. My situation is that generally, I have a very good immune system- it's extremely rare that I catch anything at all, maybe a cold over the winter but I don't get stomach bugs and have never had flu. But I'm going to be working with the public (in the JobCentre, people still come in to sign on etc when they're really sick) throughout my second and third trimester.
On one hand, I think I should get it because of the 'what if' factor. But on the other, if I wasn't pregnant I wouldn't even contemplate it. I'm literally just days out of first tri, and I'm not sure I want to take the risk of miscarriage. What would you do?

 

[JessiHD]

Hi all,

Last month I received a call from the surgery and was told that I was first in their list for swine flu vaccinations as I was pregnant. I was supposed to have the vaccine 2 weeks ago but said that I was affraid of having it after having read some worrying things about it. I was informed that if I decided to have it, I should ring them before the beginning of December as there is another vaccination date at that time.

So last month I was searching for topics like this like mad but only found you yesterday and still have not managed to read the whole thread fully (but getting there). Thank you for such a useful thread.

I am 23 weeks pregnant now. I read here that no pregnant women have reported any big problems after receiving the vaccine. I read that the swine flu vaccines have not been tested properly and I can't help thinking - what if the side effects take some time to manifest, or if they become more apparent when the baby is born? How is one to determine if some illness, that happened later, was not related to this jab?

Do I make sense or am I just being paranoid?

You make sense, you're not being paranoid! It's a hard choce to make. You and your baby are *likely* to have no ill effects from the vaccine and it is *likely* that it will give you some protection against swine flu but there is no guarantee that it is safe or effective. It is about weighing up what your personal fears are against your personal benefits. I was pretty much on the fence about it but after doing some research in medical journals and such like I have decided not to take it. However, if the pandemic death rate dramatically worsens (it is similar to seasonal flu at the moment) I may change my mind. If I had any other complications such as asthma, heart conditions or a morbid fear of swine flu then I would have taken it.
I do urge all pregnant women who have had it, not to ignore any flu symptoms on the basis you are protected because there is a good chance (between 10%-30%)you are infected despite immunisation.

 

[Carmela]

You make sense, you're not being paranoid! It's a hard choce to make. You and your baby are *likely* to have no ill effects from the vaccine and it is *likely* that it will give you some protection against swine flu but there is no guarantee that it is safe or effective. It is about weighing up what your personal fears are against your personal benefits. I was pretty much on the fence about it but after doing some research in medical journals and such like I have decided not to take it. However, if the pandemic death rate dramatically worsens (it is similar to seasonal flu at the moment) I may change my mind. If I had any other complications such as asthma, heart conditions or a morbid fear of swine flu then I would have taken it.
I do urge all pregnant women who have had it, not to ignore any flu symptoms on the basis you are protected because there is a good chance (between 10%-30%)you are infected despite immunisation.

Thanks a lot Jessi! (I will also be a March mummy and also on team blue ).
The risks are what I have been thinking about a lot. I left work early in my pregnancy as it was stressful and 40 miles away from my town, so I consider myself low risk at the moment. The thing is that my hubby commutes to London every day on trains and tube and usually brings flu home at least 2 times every winter. I would rather him get vaccinated but not sure if I will be able to arrange this at the surgery.

There is another thing - I am thinking of flying to another Eu country for the birth of my baby as my parents live there and I want them to help me in the first couple of months after the birth as this is my first baby. They will not be able to come around here for various reasons. So flying worries me a lot as it involves mixing with many people and sitting in a closed space where bugs spread easily (luckily not a long haul flight). Then, I cannot easily assess how the flu rate will develop over there in the coming winter months.

I have no special health concerns and my pregnancy has been going well so far. I have an appointment with the midwife on Monday 30 November and have to wait till then to talk with her. Will let you know what she says, but I expect her to recommend the vaccine.

 

[EmmaMarch2010]

I think the first step in all of this is to weigh up your own personal circumstances to try and evaluate if you are more at risk of catching swine flu.

I have no children, I'm not in regular contact with under 5 year olds (who are the age group spreading the virus most at this time). I consider myself fit, dont have asthma and feel my immuity to colds and flus is pretty good. I've had seasonal flu jab and I try to eat balanced foods (even though Im pregnant and partial to the odd donut or two!) and make sure I get regular vitamin c and antioxidants.

For these reasons I'm of the mind that I wont get the swine flu jab because I dont feel I am at a heightened risk of catching it. Even though I do commute on trains everyday and work in an airconditioned office which are my only 2 concerns I think I've weighed it up enough to choose that I will hopefully not fall victim to it.

Am I fully certain of the choice I'm making...not really, theres always that "what if" in the back of my mind that I may get really unlucky and catch it but weighing up your own personal situation might help people individually make that choice on whether there is a great chance of catching swine flu in the first place.

 

[EternalRose]

I have been quite a keen follower of david icke for some time now, and as much as some of his concepts are considered to be out there, I believe his research on the swine flu debate holds a lot of water, especially as he is not the only one making the claims that he has, there are several others. I remember a poster on this forum mentioned another and she was shot down! We are all skeptical, but I agree with izzies_mom and kermie, do your own research be informed but dont put down other peoples findings unless you have thoroughly researched that particular finding, and looked at the evidence base. I think if one was to do a thread, on the findings David Icke has found about the swine flu vaccine a lot of people may find themselves surprised. However, my personal opinion is that this " swine flu " outbreak that was supposedly found on a mexican farm is completely untrue and that these vaccinations are being used as a bioweapon. Some people may laugh at my previous statement, but thats my opinion and ive done my research to come to that conclusion.

 

[AimeeM]

I have been quite a keen follower of david icke for some time now, and as much as some of his concepts are considered to be out there, I believe his research on the swine flu debate holds a lot of water, especially as he is not the only one making the claims that he has, there are several others. I remember a poster on this forum mentioned another and she was shot down! We are all skeptical, but I agree with izzies_mom and kermie, do your own research be informed but dont put down other peoples findings unless you have thoroughly researched that particular finding, and looked at the evidence base. I think if one was to do a thread, on the findings David Icke has found about the swine flu vaccine a lot of people may find themselves surprised. However, my personal opinion is that this " swine flu " outbreak that was supposedly found on a mexican farm is completely untrue and that these vaccinations are being used as a bioweapon. Some people may laugh at my previous statement, but thats my opinion and ive done my research to come to that conclusion.

I agree with you. MY opinion! But then again, i am a little 'out there' too!

 

[EternalRose]

I want to add though, numerous doctors have filed complaints about this vaccination and I watched a youtube documentary today saying that the insert in the vaccine actually says its not safe for pregnant woman & I am not making this up

 

[AimeeM]

Would you mind sending me the link for the info chick? xx

 

[Carmela]

I would like to see the link too, please. If possible.

 

[EternalRose]

Pm sent

 

[EmmaDueInFeb]

My question is, and please don't shoot me down, but if you don't take the vaccine (which is ur own choice, I'm not a pro vaccine), are you going to refuse anti virals, antibiotics, and any other meds that they may have to use to save you, SHOULD you catch swine flu? My friend is an ICU nurse and the things they have to pump into someone who suffers from this virus I'm guessing aren't really on the top ten list of things for use in pregnancy either ! Its a catch 22!
I'm not looking to rile people up, I think we should all be sticking together on this one no matter of our choices, but it would be interesting to know, from those who are anti...

 

[EternalRose]

My question is, and please don't shoot me down, but if you don't take the vaccine (which is ur own choice, I'm not a pro vaccine), are you going to refuse anti virals, antibiotics, and any other meds that they may have to use to save you, SHOULD you catch swine flu? My friend is an ICU nurse and the things they have to pump into someone who suffers from this virus I'm guessing aren't really on the top ten list of things for use in pregnancy either ! Its a catch 22!
I'm not looking to rile people up, I think we should all be sticking together on this one no matter of our choices, but it would be interesting to know, from those who are anti...

I wouldnt shoot anyone down on this thread hun, we are all worried and trying our best to do whats right for us and our babies. I never said, I was anti- vaccines altogether, Im just very sceptical about this one. However, that opinion may now change as I have been reading some interesting research by a canadian doctor that shows vaccines are causing the incidence of autism to sky rocket. Anyhow I digress as always, If i was to get ill with swine flu I wouldnt just let myself die of course and if antibiotics were given to me I would take them but the antibiotics are not the cause for concern here. A lot of people have claimed to recover from swine flu without any need for medication, and have just had the usual chicken soup and bed rest. Not all, but I think the media and govt are succeeding in frightening people. Its as if they are saying if you get swine flu you are definately going to be fighting for your life in ITU. Also, the swine flu vaccination doesnt mean you wont get swine flu, and some may even say your more likely to have a weakened immune system after having it.

 

[EternalRose]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1226704/GPs-bigger-bonuses-meet-swine-flu-jab-targets.html

I dont know about anyone else, but this just angers me! Why are GP's getting incentives to cash in, at a time like this

 

[mumofboys]

Mmmm - some interesting points. Just a few more points to add to the mix:

- relenza (though licensed for pregnant women) has not been tested on pregnant women....so if you get SF (suspected) you will be under pressure to make a decision as to whether or not to take relenza, even though it falls into the same category of hypothetical risk as the SF jab

- the pandemic is not escalating as fast as was originally feared but the proportional numbers of people needing hospital treatment is causing alarm (i.e. the cases we do have are more serious than anticipated)

- while pregnant women are not dying in mass numbers, a fairly high number of women (60 at any one time, according to current figures) are in hospital requiring treatment

- while seasonal flu (currently) kills more people, the demographic of who it kills is vastly different to the demographic that SF is targeting (i.e. children under the age of 5 and pregnant women.....both seasonal flu and swine flu impact people with suppressed immune systems)

- the government is not rolling out the swine flu vaccine to under 5's

Now, we can all do the maths - the chances of us dying or ending up in hospital are still pretty low, so we could probably take the chance and be fine. However, with the way things stand, and the fact that people are not dropping like flies, do you really think that the government and the drug companies are going to risk a HUGE scandal of pushing an unsafe drug to pregnant women and small children....? If it turns out the drug is not safe, just take a minute to think of the impact this would have on the entire world.....some of our politician are a it annoying and drug companies like to make money, but I just don't believe that they would be such numpties as to take such a risk!!!

So in summary, I think that the vaccine is probably safe.....though I also think that if you don't take it, you will probably be ok too.

Dor the record - I'm getting it - I know (for a fact) that stress can subtly impact the neurological development of my unborn child (I did my PhD in this area so feel quite strongly about it), so personally for myself, I would feel calmer knowing I am protected.

Good luck to all of you with your choices and please try to stay calm, despite the fact that this is a trying time!!!!

 

[mumofboys]

Meant to say the the government IS rolling out the vaccine to under 5s!!!

 

[AimeeM]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1226704/GPs-bigger-bonuses-meet-swine-flu-jab-targets.html

I dont know about anyone else, but this just angers me! Why are GP's getting incentives to cash in, at a time like this

 

[EternalRose]

Mmmm - some interesting points. Just a few more points to add to the mix:

- relenza (though licensed for pregnant women) has not been tested on pregnant women....so if you get SF (suspected) you will be under pressure to make a decision as to whether or not to take relenza, even though it falls into the same category of hypothetical risk as the SF jab

- the pandemic is not escalating as fast as was originally feared but the proportional numbers of people needing hospital treatment is causing alarm (i.e. the cases we do have are more serious than anticipated)

- while pregnant women are not dying in mass numbers, a fairly high number of women (60 at any one time, according to current figures) are in hospital requiring treatment

- while seasonal flu (currently) kills more people, the demographic of who it kills is vastly different to the demographic that SF is targeting (i.e. children under the age of 5 and pregnant women.....both seasonal flu and swine flu impact people with suppressed immune systems)

- the government is not rolling out the swine flu vaccine to under 5's

Now, we can all do the maths - the chances of us dying or ending up in hospital are still pretty low, so we could probably take the chance and be fine. However, with the way things stand, and the fact that people are not dropping like flies, do you really think that the government and the drug companies are going to risk a HUGE scandal of pushing an unsafe drug to pregnant women and small children....? If it turns out the drug is not safe, just take a minute to think of the impact this would have on the entire world.....some of our politician are a it annoying and drug companies like to make money, but I just don't believe that they would be such numpties as to take such a risk!!!

So in summary, I think that the vaccine is probably safe.....though I also think that if you don't take it, you will probably be ok too.

Dor the record - I'm getting it - I know (for a fact) that stress can subtly impact the neurological development of my unborn child (I did my PhD in this area so feel quite strongly about it), so personally for myself, I would feel calmer knowing I am protected.

Good luck to all of you with your choices and please try to stay calm, despite the fact that this is a trying time!!!!

Interesting points hun, I thought the drug companies cant be sued if anything was to go wrong i.e side effects, miscarriages e.t.c or maybe Im wrong..