The Pearls' Book leads to another death

[nevernormal]

Can you cite a law that says that?

The article you posts cites the Pearls as saying that the recommend light flexible tubing because "it's too light to cause damage to muscle or bone." It is supposed to sting a little, enough to create a negative connotation with negative behavior so they learn not to do it. It's not supposed to do any physical damage. Think of how much easier it would be to damage/bruise a child's muscles or break their bones with your hands!

And when did they say you should use it on your child whether or not they are doing anything wrong? Is it in an article or video that has not yet been linked to in this thread?

Like I said before, I haven't yet had time to research it as thoroughly as possible. However, from what I can tell, the Pearls have a balanced outlook. That doesn't mean they are 100% right on everything; I'm sure their not. But to blame a child's death on them because the parents read/liked that book is ridiculous. Should we blame Mohammed when Muslim terrorists go on bombing missions? Perhaps we should. After all, I've never read the Quran, and despite all the peaceful Muslims out there saying that those people are extremists, surely the small population of terrorists (relative to the Muslim population as a whole) are examples of what the Quran really teaches. Do we blame the designer or manufacturer of a set of kitchen knives if someone uses one to kill a family member?

Blaming the Pearls for this child's death is ridiculous on all accounts. If the parents didn't use their book as an excuse, they would've found something else to use. FULL responsibility needs to be put on the parents' shoulders, and they and the media need to stop looking for someone else to blame.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I'm looking for the law just now. I learned about it in my Family Violence course while studying Criminology.

I think you need to do your research. The Pearls advocate hitting a child on a daily basis. The Pearls are to blame because they provided the means that lead to the child's death. Of course the parents are to blame fully, but their book needs to come off the shelf. How would you like to be whipped with a tube and have it "sting just a little"? It absolutely sickens me when people use corporal punishment. I was spanked and I remember living in fear of my parents. When they stopped spanking, I felt much better and safer.

 

[ellie]

Yes of course it is the parents fault, but having books like this out there that DO advocate, in one chapter, physical violence (and detailed how-to's, what to buy, how to do it, how often etc) is clearly wrong, no matter how much people want to dress it up as 'appropriate discipline'. Other interviews of theirs I have read also advocate physical punishment - which aside from being against the law in the UK, is abusive and any physical punishment will have serious long term consequences to the child's emotional and mental health, even without any physical scars. The role of parents is to guide, certainly, but with love. They make out they are coming from a place of 'god's love' or something but they advocate things which are ahborrent to most clear thinking, loving parents. This makes them dangerous and responsible regarding deaths such as this, since some people will think that 'its in a book so it must be ok'. Remember that this is a time and culture that holds 'training babies' to be paramount (sadly).

If people havent' seen it, there is a petition somewhere to Amazon to stop selling their book - think via The Mule? (its on facebook and probably on their website)

 

[Dragonfly]

Not a new death though but one. I hate these people, I made my facebook page when I was sick of poeple like that and have had some impact on them as some have closed down facebook pages for this horrible book. You will also be sad to know they have a new book coming out all about breaking the spirit of children to raise a warrior. Theres a petition on facebook can you please sign it , first link here https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Dangers-of-Baby-Training/126002307480818?ref=ts . Theres a lot on my page about them actually,. They depress me when I hear of them as the details really do get to me. Their fans are deluded.

 

[ellie]

^ thats the one i was thinking of - thanks dragonfly!

 

[nevernormal]

I already admitted that I need to do further research, and I fully intend to do so when I get some time off of work. From what I've seen SO FAR, they seem fairly balanced. It almost seems too good to be true.

But I did find a link where I can read "To Train Up A Child" for free (https://www.achristianhome.org/to_train_up_a_child.htm). I will read it myself and see what message they are trying to say, in context, rather than listen just to the media. I have also found links to several anti-Pearl blog posts, and I will also look them up again as time permits. I want to get the full picture.

Do I think spanking can be an effective method of training a child? Yes! I was also spanked as a child, and besides my butt stinging for a few minutes, there was no damage. There was, however, lasting benefit. I was not spanked frequently, and it was always explained why I was being punished. Really this isn't even how the Pearls advocate it, as they use it more as "training" rather than punishment, but if done in the correct manner, spanking can have a lot of benefit with no lasting harm.

I also think that children should be trained to obey their parents, provided the methods used are not doing any permanent damage (physical, psycological, or emotional). I cannot count the number of children I've seen that are disrespectful towards their parents and other adults, rebellious towards all authority, and quite selfish. Some of these children have parents who would never dream of spanking (some don't dream of discipline at all), while others I"m sure are/have been spanked regularly. Usually in those that have been spanked, however, the spankings are last resort for the parents, out of anger, accompanied by yelling, etc. The child learns how far they can push the parents, and will continuously go to the edge. They will be disobedient and rebellious as much as the parents allow.

Again, you are right, I do need to do more research, and I fully intend to. But we ALL need to seek out the entire situation, instead of reading one article and accusing the authors of a book as being partly to blame for a child's death.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Ok, I've actually studying this in school (child abuse) and I can tell you that spanking a child can lead to other negative behaviours.

"Spanking by Parents and Subsequent Antisocial Behaviour of Children" https://gauss.unh.edu/~mas2/CP24.pdf

"The Physical Punishment of Children" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1718452/pdf/v083p00196.pdf

"Is it Time to Ban Corporal Punishment of Children?" https://www.canadianmedicaljournal.ca/content/161/7/821.full

Three articles from scholarly journals on corporal punishment from three different countries.

What the Pearls are advocating is to beat a child to ensure compliance. I do not believe that my son should obey me. I'm actually sick that you think children should be brought up to obey their parents. Children are not dogs. I will be teaching my son to respect me. I have worked with children for going on ten years and I have never once had to use corporal punishment (I couldn't even if I wanted to because it's ILLEGAL in schools). How do I get those children to "obey" me? By respecting them and using reasonable means of discipline.

I have done my research on the Pearls. If they are so open to alternative means of parenting, why do they delete any negative comments about their methods on their Facebook page and website?

 

[ellie]

hmm, spanking never did any harm, yet a spanked child grows up to believe that children are subordinate or lesser beings who should be "trained" and need to "obey others", not be their own people or learn from their parents. That's clearly fine then ....

And most of us commenting have read way more than this one article about these people. Sadly, in no way are they unique, there are so many "baby trainer experts" out there preying on vulnerable parents with their abusive claptrap. There is a LOT of good, reliable evidence showing that children who are yelled at, who are physically hit, who have unreasonably strict behavioural limits placed on them, who live in fear of their parents etc - grow up to be disobedient, rebellious, antisocial, distrustful, have difficulty in forming or maintaining relationships, respecting others, and are more likely to use violence against others as a way of coping or "gaining respect".

However, everyone parents the way they see fit ..... so if you want to go along with the pearls stuff with your own family, thats totally your call. Im not sure why you are being so defensive of them just because you are considering listening to them for future reference though ....

 

[Dragonfly]

I already admitted that I need to do further research, and I fully intend to do so when I get some time off of work. From what I've seen SO FAR, they seem fairly balanced. It almost seems too good to be true.

But I did find a link where I can read "To Train Up A Child" for free (https://www.achristianhome.org/to_train_up_a_child.htm). I will read it myself and see what message they are trying to say, in context, rather than listen just to the media. I have also found links to several anti-Pearl blog posts, and I will also look them up again as time permits. I want to get the full picture.

Do I think spanking can be an effective method of training a child? Yes! I was also spanked as a child, and besides my butt stinging for a few minutes, there was no damage. There was, however, lasting benefit. I was not spanked frequently, and it was always explained why I was being punished. Really this isn't even how the Pearls advocate it, as they use it more as "training" rather than punishment, but if done in the correct manner, spanking can have a lot of benefit with no lasting harm.

I also think that children should be trained to obey their parents, provided the methods used are not doing any permanent damage (physical, psycological, or emotional). I cannot count the number of children I've seen that are disrespectful towards their parents and other adults, rebellious towards all authority, and quite selfish. Some of these children have parents who would never dream of spanking (some don't dream of discipline at all), while others I"m sure are/have been spanked regularly. Usually in those that have been spanked, however, the spankings are last resort for the parents, out of anger, accompanied by yelling, etc. The child learns how far they can push the parents, and will continuously go to the edge. They will be disobedient and rebellious as much as the parents allow.

Again, you are right, I do need to do more research, and I fully intend to. But we ALL need to seek out the entire situation, instead of reading one article and accusing the authors of a book as being partly to blame for a child's death.

Would you say you had a negative outlook on children?
This is abuse.
Heres the lovely Debbi Pearls words in an interview.
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=152409224840126

 

[JackiePed]

Keep in mind, the Pearls books go beyond simply "how to 'properly' spank (or switch) your children".... they advocate switching a baby of 6 months to quell crying fits, etc! How can a baby understand that? For older children, they specifically say to 'sit on the child if needed (to gain physical control) and continue the switching until their spirit is broken and they no longer flinch or attempt to defend themselves'.

Yikes.

No... the Pearls should not be 'blamed' for the disgusting acts of abusive parents...we aren't a bunch of robots. We make decisions on what we should and shouldn't do.

But yes, their books should be removed from shelves as a matter of statement of what we support as a society. Tbh, it won't really stop them because they have many more outlets in which to 'spread their message', but it will send a message.

 

[Dragonfly]

They wiped their 8 week old on bare skin for crying its in the book.

Here are some details:



1) The Pearls recommend whipping infants only a few months old on their bare skin. They describe whipping their own 4 month old daughter (p.9). They recommend whipping the bare skin of "every child" (p.2) for "Christians and non-Christians" (p.5) and for "every transgression" (p.1). Parents who don't whip their babies into complete submission are portrayed as indifferent, lazy, careless and neglectful (p.19) and are "creating a Nazi" (p.45).



2) On p.60 they recommend whipping babies who cannot sleep and are crying, and to never allow them "to get up." On p.61 they recommend whipping a 12 month old girl for crying. On p.79 they recommend whipping a 7 month old for screaming.



3) On p.65 co-author Debi Pearl whips the bare leg of a 15 month old she is babysitting, 10 separate times, for not playing with something she tells him to play with. On p.56 Debi Pearl hits a 2 year old so hard "a karate chop like wheeze came from somewhere deep inside."



4) On p.44 they say not to let the child's crying while being hit to "cause you to lighten up on the intensity or duration of the spanking." On p.59 they recommend whipping a 3 year old until he is "totally broken."



5) On p.55 the Pearls say a mother should hit her child if he cries for her.



6) On p.46 the Pearls say that if a child does obey before being whipped, whip them anyway. And "if you have to sit on him to spank him, then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he is surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher." "Defeat him totally." On p.80 they recommend giving a child having a tantrum "a swift *forceful* spanking." On the same page they say to whip small children on their bare skin until they stop screaming. "Don't be bullied. Give him more of the same." They say to continue whipping until their crying turns into a "wounded, submissive whimper."



7) On p.47 they recommend their various whips, including "a belt or larger tree branch" to hit children.



8) The Pearls recommend pulling a nursing infant's hair (p.7), and describe tripping their non-swimming toddler so she falls into deep water (p.67). They recommend ignoring an infant's bumped head when he falls to the floor, and ignoring skinned knees (p.86). They also say "if your child is roughed-up by peers, rejoice." (p.81) And on p.103 the Pearls say if children lose their shoes, "let them go without until they (the children) can make the money to buy more."



9) The Pearls claim their "training" methods are Godly, yet they have *no religious training or credentials* They never mention Jesus' injunctions to forgive "seventy times seven" and be merciful, and they decry the "extraordinary ingnorance of modern psychology."



The Pearls' methods have resulted in parents being investigated by Child Protective Services, children being taken away from parents, a restraining order against a father, and even a babysitter going to jail on felony charges!


https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=127095617371487


I have seen their fans discuss how their children never take tantrums as they where slagging others off whos tantrums where at the age of 2 onwards etc. Their kids are beaten so they dont do that.

 

[JackiePed]

Argh. That last bit makes me angry. My kids don't throw tantrums either, and rarely ever did, and I never whipped them, beat them, or spanked them to get them to not behave that way. Although I am grateful that my kids don't throw horrid tantrums, and I do believe that SOME of it is down to me being consistent as a parent, I'm not ignorant or conceited enough to take full credit for it. I think I was lucky for a big part, and have been given more mellow kids...and I'm grateful every day for my kids' innate personalities.
I would NEVER look at another parent's child throwing a tantrum and say or assume that they are lazy, inept, and that if they did it MY way their kids wouldn't throw tantrums. Nor would I ever be arrogant enough to say or imply that I get the credit for my kids personalities. Some behaviors and habits, yes. Personalities and urges like tempers and emotions? No. (Karma would kick me in the butt and you KNOW that this little guy on the way would come out a tantrum-throwing tornado!)

 

[ShanandBoc]

Disgusting........How anyone thinks this is an acceptable way to treat children is beyond me, their book should be banned and the Pearls should be arrested and charged for child abuse imo

 

[BlackBerry25]

Reminds me of the sick Westboro Baptist Church. Which is a whole 'nother topic but MAN. I don't even get how someone could come into this thread and defend this book.

Seems UNREAL. But I guess this shows that this shit really is happening and people believe it. Disgusting is right.

 

[lhancock90]

But how do you know their advice is twisted and disgusting? Have you read it for yourself?

The Pearls are advocates of spanking, but they are strongly against all forms of child abuse. They are adamant that you should never spank (or do any other discipline) out of anger, partly because it doesn't actually correct their behavior it just teaches the child that the biggest, strongest person wins, and also because anger can escalate things to an abusive level very quickly. And that applies to all forms of discipline, not just spanking. Screaming at your children because you're at your wits end can be just as damaging (if not more!), emotionally, as spanking has the potential to be, physically.

There's nothing wrong with sending a child to be without supper if it is appropriate, relevant discipline to the situation. Not feeding them for days and starving them to death like those parents did is clearly wrong and violates the methods the Pearls are advocating. That is abuse, not training or discipline out of love.

Above, it states they believe in whipping a baby only a few months old. If you can't see how that is wrong. I have nothing left to say.

 

[aliss]

They wiped their 8 week old on bare skin for crying its in the book.

Here are some details:



1) The Pearls recommend whipping infants only a few months old on their bare skin. They describe whipping their own 4 month old daughter (p.9). They recommend whipping the bare skin of "every child" (p.2) for "Christians and non-Christians" (p.5) and for "every transgression" (p.1). Parents who don't whip their babies into complete submission are portrayed as indifferent, lazy, careless and neglectful (p.19) and are "creating a Nazi" (p.45).



2) On p.60 they recommend whipping babies who cannot sleep and are crying, and to never allow them "to get up." On p.61 they recommend whipping a 12 month old girl for crying. On p.79 they recommend whipping a 7 month old for screaming.



3) On p.65 co-author Debi Pearl whips the bare leg of a 15 month old she is babysitting, 10 separate times, for not playing with something she tells him to play with. On p.56 Debi Pearl hits a 2 year old so hard "a karate chop like wheeze came from somewhere deep inside."



4) On p.44 they say not to let the child's crying while being hit to "cause you to lighten up on the intensity or duration of the spanking." On p.59 they recommend whipping a 3 year old until he is "totally broken."



5) On p.55 the Pearls say a mother should hit her child if he cries for her.



6) On p.46 the Pearls say that if a child does obey before being whipped, whip them anyway. And "if you have to sit on him to spank him, then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he is surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher." "Defeat him totally." On p.80 they recommend giving a child having a tantrum "a swift *forceful* spanking." On the same page they say to whip small children on their bare skin until they stop screaming. "Don't be bullied. Give him more of the same." They say to continue whipping until their crying turns into a "wounded, submissive whimper."



7) On p.47 they recommend their various whips, including "a belt or larger tree branch" to hit children.



8) The Pearls recommend pulling a nursing infant's hair (p.7), and describe tripping their non-swimming toddler so she falls into deep water (p.67). They recommend ignoring an infant's bumped head when he falls to the floor, and ignoring skinned knees (p.86). They also say "if your child is roughed-up by peers, rejoice." (p.81) And on p.103 the Pearls say if children lose their shoes, "let them go without until they (the children) can make the money to buy more."



9) The Pearls claim their "training" methods are Godly, yet they have *no religious training or credentials* They never mention Jesus' injunctions to forgive "seventy times seven" and be merciful, and they decry the "extraordinary ingnorance of modern psychology."



The Pearls' methods have resulted in parents being investigated by Child Protective Services, children being taken away from parents, a restraining order against a father, and even a babysitter going to jail on felony charges!


https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=127095617371487


I have seen their fans discuss how their children never take tantrums as they where slagging others off whos tantrums where at the age of 2 onwards etc. Their kids are beaten so they dont do that.

How can one go so far from the motherly instinct that was given to them in the first place? What horrible cruelty, I cannot imagine how ... I am honestly speechless.

 

[smokey]

Im not deffending the book by a long shot, its a discusting thing but I cant help think what type of parents follow these things, there has to be something there in their heads that is not right in the first place to choose a book of this kind of topic as their guide and to turn away from any form of instinct or commen sense.
Its like when music is blaimed for a teenager shooting classmates, their has to be something not right in their judgment and reasoning to choose a non human instinctive path.
These parents shouldnt be allowed near children to begine with if they can so easily follow such a destructive path so its not all the blaim of the book, the parents have to be screwed up in the head as well.

 

[Lydiarose]

i HATE the world "child training" for fuck sake there not animals

Absolutly disgusting people and awful book,the only thing they are doing is breeding a group of screwed up children,who dont trust and fear there parents.


Just awful.

 

[JackiePed]

Im not deffending the book by a long shot, its a discusting thing but I cant help think what type of parents follow these things, there has to be something there in their heads that is not right in the first place to choose a book of this kind of topic as their guide and to turn away from any form of instinct or commen sense.
Its like when music is blaimed for a teenager shooting classmates, their has to be something not right in their judgment and reasoning to choose a non human instinctive path.
These parents shouldnt be allowed near children to begine with if they can so easily follow such a destructive path so its not all the blaim of the book, the parents have to be screwed up in the head as well.

Very, very true. If you can't see something innately wrong with this, then the problem already lies within.

 

[BlackBerry25]

People who blindly follow religion.