Underhand tactics - formula companies

[curlykate]

I FF's Aidan and he has never been chubby. He is on the lower percentile for weight as is my friends baby. I don't think the way you feed has anything to do with it. I just think it's different for each individiual baby and how fast their motabolism is
xx

^WSS
My LO is EBF, and at his last checkup was in the 97th centile for both weight, and height. And then he had a growth spurt the next day!
However, talking to MIL, he's just like his Daddy. So I'm pretty sure FF or BF, he was going to be a big baby!

 

[Eve]

I FF's Aidan and he has never been chubby. He is on the lower percentile for weight as is my friends baby. I don't think the way you feed has anything to do with it. I just think it's different for each individiual baby and how fast their motabolism is
xx

And how much they are fed, if they are active early-on schedule, genetics. There are many things that would factor into a baby being bigger or smaller. I just meant the Moms I know have chubbier babies, not everyone who uses Formula. I used it with my son and he was a butterball LOL but he also ate a lot and by 1 month he was taking 8 ounces no problem... but another friend of mine used it and her son has always been average sized. Mark was FF I believe, and he is a skinny stick!

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

At 3 months he was on 8ozs draining them. Even now he eats loads and doesn;t put a lot on. I just think he has a really fast motablosim plus he is always on the move. He never stops lol
xx

 

[Eve]

How often was he eating the 8ozs? I've been told I was over feeding Jake, but once he started walking he thinned out good. He had always been thick, built like his father... now he is on the bigger side again due to his medication.

 

[trumpetbum]

I can fully appreciate that there are potential public health issues posed by not bf, but realistically how common are these and to what extent? Considering the very high levels of obesity in the children and adults of our society today, I feel that the potential, none the less significant, public health issues raised by not bf are really just the tip of the iceberg iykwim?

They are huge and they aren't potential public health issues but very real ones imo, there is a wealth of evidence acknowledged by virtually every health organisation in the world, including WHO, NHS, UNICEF as outlined earlier that support the fact that breastfeeding levels have a significant impact on health. Yes, there are many other issues however I don't think that we can afford to underestimate the impact that this one has on health across the board.

Not all of the following is aimed at your post, more at obesity/formula in general.
There is considerable evidence linking obesity to infant feeding imo, however there are still gaps in this research, problems with control factors and isolating formula as a risk factor. I don't think anyone would or could argue that being formula fed and being overweight is a foregone conclusion.
I actually have a good metabolism despite formula (although personal analogies when talking about risk and links are obviously as helpful and as meaningful as me saying 'smoking is not bad for you, my granda was fit as a fiddle, lived until 102 and smoked like a chimney since he was 9 etc.)

Of course it would be ridiculous not to acknowledge and work to reduce other risk factors which the NHS and UK are attempting to do. However since there appears to be a link between obesity and formula overall then this is something which needs to be acknowledged and researched further, NOT just to make a stronger argument for breastfeeding but also to see if the formula available can be improved to reduce this factor. It is important that the infant food available is raising it's standard all the time to match the research available.
For example :due to research regarding obesity and level of milk protein, the formula companies are taking note and further research has been recommended to assess whether infant formulas and follow up formulas should be developed differently, so while we shouldn't jump the gun and blame childhood (or adult) obesity on formula per se, we should definitely as a society be aware that it may be a risk factor.
Targeting health from the beginning is essential to improving health in the population imo.

 

[GiGi2002]

I can fully appreciate that there are potential public health issues posed by not bf, but realistically how common are these and to what extent? Considering the very high levels of obesity in the children and adults of our society today, I feel that the potential, none the less significant, public health issues raised by not bf are really just the tip of the iceberg iykwim?

They are huge and they aren't potential public health issues but very real ones imo, there is a wealth of evidence acknowledged by virtually every health organisation in the world, including WHO, NHS, UNICEF as outlined earlier that support the fact that breastfeeding levels have a significant impact on health. Yes, there are many other issues however I don't think that we can afford to underestimate the impact that this one has on health across the board.

Not all of the following is aimed at your post, more at obesity/formula in general.
There is considerable evidence linking obesity to infant feeding imo, however there are still gaps in this research, problems with control factors and isolating formula as a risk factor. I don't think anyone would or could argue that being formula fed and being overweight is a foregone conclusion.
I actually have a good metabolism despite formula (although personal analogies when talking about risk and links are obviously as helpful and as meaningful as me saying 'smoking is not bad for you, my granda was fit as a fiddle, lived until 102 and smoked like a chimney since he was 9 etc.)

Of course it would be ridiculous not to acknowledge and work to reduce other risk factors which the NHS and UK are attempting to do. However since there appears to be a link between obesity and formula overall then this is something which needs to be acknowledged and researched further, NOT just to make a stronger argument for breastfeeding but also to see if the formula available can be improved to reduce this factor. It is important that the infant food available is raising it's standard all the time to match the research available.
For example :due to research regarding obesity and level of milk protein, the formula companies are taking note and further research has been recommended to assess whether infant formulas and follow up formulas should be developed differently, so while we shouldn't jump the gun and blame childhood (or adult) obesity on formula per se, we should definitely as a society be aware that it may be a risk factor.
Targeting health from the beginning is essential to improving health in the population imo.

I have to apologise as this is my first post on this forum and this post will be contetious but whilst I agree that formula fed babies tend to be larger I by no means think that a formula fed baby is at risk of anything that a breastfed baby is not. I breastfed my baby for a number of weeks (exclusive, not that it mades much difference in my mind but feel I have to justify myself)! and could no longer carry on, during this period of exclusive breastfeeding my baby contracted chickenpox, i was told it was not possible as I had had it at the age of 25, as they didn't believe me, I agreed to be tested for the antibodies as they didn't believe me - suprise suprise - I had had it and had the antibodies in my system. Now whilst I wholehartedly agree that breast can sometimes be best, I do believe there appears to be a 'I suffered more to get breastfeeding established, therefore I am best' mentality' I| happened to have been breastfed for 1+year, I also happened to have been an obese child until I was 15 years old, I now have a bmi of 21 naturally so have reached my natural weight.

My son has been formula fed from 1 week and aknowledge he is on the 98th centile but this is for both weight and height (99.6th for head) and also aknowledge that for the first year a breastfed baby will ususually be better off, but I do not agree that a breastfed baby is in anyway 'better' than a formula fed baby, However (ancedotally) MY Son has reached more milestones quicker than his breastfed peers,

We all do what we have to with our children and being in 'one camp or another' is detrimental to society and to the invaluable support mother can give to each other despite the way they feed.

Rant over!

G

I guess my first post has been horrendously long

 

[BlackBerry25]

We know how much we put in the bottle, its not like its a neverending supply where they chug it down and not know they are full.

Anyways, my LO was up there (90th percentiles) for everything, and she is skinny! She just is mega tall, so it all evened out. I actually never see a super "fat" baby, bf or ff. I think it is very rare, and more due to them not moving than overeating.

 

[Eve]

Like I said, I've seen a very fat baby before, and he was being fed every time he cried. He was eating like 5oz (at 1 month) then 45 minutes later if he cried, she would feed him again, again and again. I'm not the only person who has seen him, and everyone I know who has seen him as mentioned his size for his height and age... maybe if he were BF he would be the same size, I don't know... he was BF for like 2 days I guess after birth...

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

I deman fed so the time between his feeds would vary. During the day he would be needing a feed every 4 to 5 hours and then at night he could sleep through
xx

 

[Eve]

Jake went longer like that too, but he was up every 4 hours day and night to feed... He had night feeds until he was 8 months old, and then I had to do CIO ( advice from doctor ) to cut out the feeds...

 

[Eve]

He was on Isomil (soy) and it cost $50.00 a case of 12 concentrate cans of liquid.

 

[NuKe]

I dont think weight has anything to do with bf or ff. poppy was bf for a week then ff since and she is slightly over the average weight for her age, but also slightly longer too. shes totally in proportion.

 

[hattiehippo]

I'd also agree that FF or BF doesn't actually seem to have anything to do with baby weight.
Tom has been FF since 3 days due a failure to latch on. He was slow to establish FF too and despite being born on the 50th centile by 8 weeks old he had dropped to the 9th. He has consistently stayed around the same line and out of my group of friends babies he is now the lightest depsite being one of the heaviest at birth and the only one FF from so early on.

At nearly 9 months he is doing really well with weaning and still taking 4 bottles a day of formula - approx 25oz max. But his weight has stayed between the 9th and 20th lines at around 17 1/2 lbs. I suspect his dad's metabolism - slim and can eat anything without putting an oz on.

It would be really interesting if research did show a definate link between nutrition really early in life and later health. There are so many other factors that influence the ever rising obsesity levels - lifestyle and the constant supply of cheap unhealthy food being by far more significant I personally think, rather whether you were BF or FF for what is a very short period of your life.

 

[aliss]

My FF baby is a fatty, 16lbs at 13 weeks. Hah. That's probably because he was a fatty at birth and his dad is a powerlifter. Personally, I don't care much for the argument of obesity and FF. My OH and I are both weight lifters, we both eat extremely healthy, we both spend hours a day outside exercising (walking the dog, hiking), OH is a very fit police officer and I go to the gym daily. #1 reason for obesity hands down is parents feeding their children garbage food and children being inactive. Unacceptable in my home.

 

[Rach27]

I think it's easier for a bottlefed baby (whether formula or EBM) to take more milk than they need because it is so much less work for them to bottle feed than to breastfeed. They are less likely to act upon their natural feelings of fullness and stop because it is so easy to go on eating. If one overrides their natural feeling of fullness enough times I think it becomes more difficult to know when one is full (I say 'one' because it can apply equally to babies, adults and children)
That's the only way I understand it anyway, I don't think it is formula itself that has the link with possibly causing obesity.
Happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

But it said that u can never over feed a baby. they throw up if they'r overfed. Omar is FF since day 1 & he always took much less than the recomended. With bottle feeding (EBM or formula), quantities r usually controlled & mothers r usually very coutious when it comes to quantities.

My cousin's daughter was exclusively BF & jumped frm 2nd percentile @ birth to 99th at 3 mnths. Her Dr advised her mother to express to control quantities.

Just like an adult, I think it's possible to eat more than you need without consuming enough too make you sick, which I believe is what Claire is trying to say. The flow from a bottle is faster and requires less work, so by the time a baby realizes that oops, they're full, they may have had maybe a half oz or so more than they really needed, and then mummy meaning well holds the bottle to their mouth saying "are you sure you're done?"and out of instinct baby takes a few more sucks before saying, "yep, done." Overall, it's not enough to make them sick, but it's just enough to leave them with that Sunday roast dinner feeling of full. I'm obviously not saying this is a given and always happens, but I can see how it can. At the breast a baby has to work to get milk and if they are done, they're done and there is no convincing them otherwise. They can also comfort suckle at the breast at any time during a feed which slows the feeding enough for their bodies to send the message that enough is enough.

Oh, and that is crazy advice from a doctor about expressing, especially since it would just end up increasing her supply after a few days.

Agree and with bottle feeding, we are more in control of the quantity - whereas the baby takes the lead with BF'ing. My baby was force fed on day one (by a stupid midwife without my permission), he didn't need that volume, his stomach would have stretched to take it. He only needed my colostrum (which he also got through a syringe) but because of that one feed, his stomach stretched waaaaay beyond what I could match myself seeing as my milk didn't come in for the next few days.

My understanding was that it is impossible for a baby to overfeed himself and also to be greedy - he will only take what he needs.

RE links between FF and obesity.... my doctor gave me a self-written sheet on all the 'nasties' I was exposing my child to by giving him a bottle of formula. Yes, hum, helpful - not! I actually chucked it but obesity was on it, as was diabetes type 2 and some degestive tract complications.

Also, there's apparently more than 40 times the amount of aluminum in formula in comparision with breastmilk which the powers that be say could cause neurological problems.

With obesity, I think it's probably to do with being prone to overeating rather than anything actually in the formula although I guess this habit could also be established during childhood.

 

[leelee]

I think it's easier for a bottlefed baby (whether formula or EBM) to take more milk than they need because it is so much less work for them to bottle feed than to breastfeed. They are less likely to act upon their natural feelings of fullness and stop because it is so easy to go on eating. If one overrides their natural feeling of fullness enough times I think it becomes more difficult to know when one is full (I say 'one' because it can apply equally to babies, adults and children)
That's the only way I understand it anyway, I don't think it is formula itself that has the link with possibly causing obesity.
Happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

But it said that u can never over feed a baby. they throw up if they'r overfed. Omar is FF since day 1 & he always took much less than the recomended. With bottle feeding (EBM or formula), quantities r usually controlled & mothers r usually very coutious when it comes to quantities.

My cousin's daughter was exclusively BF & jumped frm 2nd percentile @ birth to 99th at 3 mnths. Her Dr advised her mother to express to control quantities.

Just like an adult, I think it's possible to eat more than you need without consuming enough too make you sick, which I believe is what Claire is trying to say. The flow from a bottle is faster and requires less work, so by the time a baby realizes that oops, they're full, they may have had maybe a half oz or so more than they really needed, and then mummy meaning well holds the bottle to their mouth saying "are you sure you're done?"and out of instinct baby takes a few more sucks before saying, "yep, done." Overall, it's not enough to make them sick, but it's just enough to leave them with that Sunday roast dinner feeling of full. I'm obviously not saying this is a given and always happens, but I can see how it can. At the breast a baby has to work to get milk and if they are done, they're done and there is no convincing them otherwise. They can also comfort suckle at the breast at any time during a feed which slows the feeding enough for their bodies to send the message that enough is enough.

Oh, and that is crazy advice from a doctor about expressing, especially since it would just end up increasing her supply after a few days.

Agree and with bottle feeding, we are more in control of the quantity - whereas the baby takes the lead with BF'ing. My baby was force fed on day one (by a stupid midwife without my permission), he didn't need that volume, his stomach would have stretched to take it. He only needed my colostrum (which he also got through a syringe) but because of that one feed, his stomach stretched waaaaay beyond what I could match myself seeing as my milk didn't come in for the next few days.

My understanding was that it is impossible for a baby to overfeed himself and also to be greedy - he will only take what he needs.

RE links between FF and obesity.... my doctor gave me a self-written sheet on all the 'nasties' I was exposing my child to by giving him a bottle of formula. Yes, hum, helpful - not! I actually chucked it but obesity was on it, as was diabetes type 2 and some degestive tract complications.

Also, there's apparently more than 40 times the amount of aluminum in formula in comparision with breastmilk which the powers that be say could cause neurological problems.

With obesity, I think it's probably to do with being prone to overeating rather than anything actually in the formula although I guess this habit could also be established during childhood.

Maybe you should think before you post an article like that up here. How do you think FF mothers are going to feel when they read something like that?

I am all for reading up on articles and research but I think you are scare mongering here. No-one is disagreeing with the fact that breast milk is better so I don't see why there is a need for posting that up.

I would never post an article up that would potentially worry other mums about the health of their babies.

I am disgusted.

 

[RainbowDrop_x]

My DD is FF and she knows when she's had enough. If I put 7oz in a bottle and she's had enough at say 5oz she'll push the bottle out with her tongue and if she's had enough she will not have that bottle put back in her mouth. Like someone said a mothers instinct is to try again "Are you sure you've had enough" but (and I can't speak for every FF baby) my daughter knows when she is full.

I personally don't think the method of feeding a baby can be linked to obesity (Be it BF OR FF). I honestly believe it comes from eating too much crap at an older age and not enough physical activity. I've seen plenty of school children in their first couple of years who are obviously smaller than me but not far off in weight. That said I am also one that can eat a horse and not put on weight. My dad is the same where as my mum can eat a slice of bread and put on a stone,it just depends on metabolism.

 

[Rach27]

Maybe I should clarify that I was pointing out I thought much has been said over the years about FF (and BF for that matter) in the media, by doctors, by many 'powers that be' but that the majority of it is conjecture as they just don't know!!

I have fed my child formula FFS!!!! However, I am very sorry if that did offend you.

Here are some other articles which are also highly ranked by Google.

Breastmilk in NOT better than formula

Mums told formula milk is good for babies

I find these quite offensive, having struggled so much with BF'ing. This is like being told it wasn't worth it!! You have to take it all with a pinch of salt!

 

[leelee]

Maybe I should clarify that I was pointing out I thought much has been said over the years about FF (and BF for that matter) in the media, by doctors, by many 'powers that be' but that the majority of it is conjecture as they just don't know!!

I have fed my child formula FFS!!!! However, I am very sorry if that did offend you.

Here are some other articles which are also highly ranked by Google.

Breastmilk in NOT better than formula

Mums told formula milk is good for babies

I find these quite offensive, having struggled so much with BF'ing. This is like being told it wasn't worth it!! You have to take it all with a pinch of salt!

Yes, but my point is that I wouldn't post it up as I know that it would potentially frighten someone.

 

[Dragonfly]

I think the risks of obesity are lower in breastfed babies is true and thats what i see for myself.

Why is it ok in here for people to put down breast milk and not formula? soon as someone posts something on formula theres an outcry yet its ok for everyone to comment on how they think breast milk dosnt really work on this and that when there are proven studies. When formula studies are posted its scare mongering.

Thats just something I noticed in here. If you dont think something in brestmilk is true then why cant anyone say anything about formula not being perfect?