Underhand tactics - formula companies

[Tiff]

There is one thing i don't understand. I'd like to say that i am asking this genuinely out of curiosity, not to make any kind of point

It is quite obvious that there are lots of people here that tried BF and were sad about having to use formula when it didn't work out (understandably ). I can see that is because you wanted the best for your child and did what you could to provide that. What i don't get is why there is such debate when we're all agreeing that BFing, when possible, is what's ideal. Some people just choose different words (such as saying BM is superior)

Good question.

Perhaps because, while it is the it is the best 'substance', circumstances may mean BF is not ideal. So therefore not ideal for a particular individual?

That's a brilliant way to put it. Well done! (Not that you were looking for praise, but I've never heard it put like that before and it makes TOTAL sense to me!)

 

[Rach27]

There is one thing i don't understand. I'd like to say that i am asking this genuinely out of curiosity, not to make any kind of point

It is quite obvious that there are lots of people here that tried BF and were sad about having to use formula when it didn't work out (understandably ). I can see that is because you wanted the best for your child and did what you could to provide that. What i don't get is why there is such debate when we're all agreeing that BFing, when possible, is what's ideal. Some people just choose different words (such as saying BM is superior)

Good question.

Perhaps because, while it is the it is the best 'substance', circumstances may mean BF is not ideal. So therefore not ideal for a particular individual?

That's a brilliant way to put it. Well done! (Not that you were looking for praise, but I've never heard it put like that before and it makes TOTAL sense to me!)

Thank you

 

[leelee]

I have been away until now.

All I was trying to say is that I don't think it is right to post such a scary article. I would neve post one on FF, BF, tinned food etc etc that could potentially frighten other mothers.

And to say that people who frighten easily shouldn't come on the net is daft??? That article would cause anxiety for a lot of FF mothers, not just the easily frightened ones.

I don't think every post should be censored, but I also think a lot of people on here are not able to think outside their own situation, and how something might affect others.

 

[Rach27]

...

All I was trying to say is that I don't think it is right to post such a scary article. I would neve post one on FF, BF, tinned food etc etc that could potentially frighten other mothers......That article would cause anxiety for a lot of FF mothers, not just the easily frightened ones.....

And so we will have to agree to disagree I personally think it's good to back up statements you make with the research you've done. Any information can potentially scare people but I think it's scarier not to have the information!

 

[IvyBaby]

I have been away until now.

All I was trying to say is that I don't think it is right to post such a scary article. I would neve post one on FF, BF, tinned food etc etc that could potentially frighten other mothers.

And to say that people who frighten easily shouldn't come on the net is daft??? That article would cause anxiety for a lot of FF mothers, not just the easily frightened ones.

I don't think every post should be censored, but I also think a lot of people on here are not able to think outside their own situation, and how something might affect others.

Even if all of us here on BnB decided not to post potentially frightening articles, the rest of internet population would probably not be with us, so the easily frightened ones would still stumble upon the scary information and get frightened.
And I think information is generally neutral, it is how we take it that is of importance. I personally choose to know rather than ignore things that I don't like or that don't fit with my views (of course no info should be believed blindly).

 

[leelee]

I have been away until now.

All I was trying to say is that I don't think it is right to post such a scary article. I would neve post one on FF, BF, tinned food etc etc that could potentially frighten other mothers.

And to say that people who frighten easily shouldn't come on the net is daft??? That article would cause anxiety for a lot of FF mothers, not just the easily frightened ones.

I don't think every post should be censored, but I also think a lot of people on here are not able to think outside their own situation, and how something might affect others.

Even if all of us here on BnB decided not to post potentially frightening articles, the rest of internet population would probably not be with us, so the easily frightened ones would still stumble upon the scary information and get frightened.
And I think information is generally neutral, it is how we take it that is of importance. I personally choose to know rather than ignore things that I don't like or that don't fit with my views (of course no info should be believed blindly).

I also like to do my own research with regards BF, food, parenting methods, weaning etc etc. Unfortunately no amount of research into formula was going to be able to prevent us from using it as my LO would not latch on, despite a fantastic support system.

There have been other reasons outlined in this thread as to why women can't FF, such as childhood abuse/trauma, breast removal, birth injury etc. So for many women there is no choice when it comes to BF or FF. And this is why I object to this particular article being posted.

As I have said time and time again. I know breast is best. I know formula is not as good. No-one has to keep telling me that. What I don't like are scary articles suggesting that I might have contributed to my child getting dementia later in life. Please don't tell me any mum would like to read that.

By the way Rach27, I am not getting at you as I feel we have agreed to disagree and think we have managed to sort out our disagreement in a mature manner. I am just responding to IvyBaby.

 

[IvyBaby]

When I read this kind of threads that have escalated in to arguments I feel one thing for sure- a lot of us simply need a place to blow off steam! (It is not even about who is right and who is wrong.) I would create a thread where everybody would be allowed to say anything they want about any topic under the sun, including BF, FF, CC, CIO, etc, etc, but I am afraid it would be locked after a few posts. Could be so therapeutic

 

[IvyBaby]

I have been away until now.

All I was trying to say is that I don't think it is right to post such a scary article. I would neve post one on FF, BF, tinned food etc etc that could potentially frighten other mothers.

And to say that people who frighten easily shouldn't come on the net is daft??? That article would cause anxiety for a lot of FF mothers, not just the easily frightened ones.

I don't think every post should be censored, but I also think a lot of people on here are not able to think outside their own situation, and how something might affect others.

Even if all of us here on BnB decided not to post potentially frightening articles, the rest of internet population would probably not be with us, so the easily frightened ones would still stumble upon the scary information and get frightened.
And I think information is generally neutral, it is how we take it that is of importance. I personally choose to know rather than ignore things that I don't like or that don't fit with my views (of course no info should be believed blindly).

I also like to do my own research with regards BF, food, parenting methods, weaning etc etc. Unfortunately no amount of research into formula was going to be able to prevent us from using it as my LO would not latch on, despite a fantastic support system.

There have been other reasons outlined in this thread as to why women can't FF, such as childhood abuse/trauma, breast removal, birth injury etc. So for many women there is no choice when it comes to BF or FF. And this is why I object to this particular article being posted.

As I have said time and time again. I know breast is best. I know formula is not as good. No-one has to keep telling me that. What I don't like are scary articles suggesting that I might have contributed to my child getting dementia later in life. Please don't tell me any mum would like to read that.

By the way Rach27, I am not getting at you as I feel we have agreed to disagree and think we have managed to sort out our disagreement in a mature manner. I am just responding to IvyBaby.

Hun, I don't question that some moms indeed have no choice, I had to supplement for the first 4 months too because of low supply and other problems, I am just saying that there are people for who this kind of info could be beneficial (to help them make the right choice, for example), but the rest who already have made this choice or maybe did not really have a choice at all, should just ignore it and move on. Why should this become an argument at all, I don't understand.

 

[jojo2605]

I commented on this a while back but have been reading it here and there as it's gone along.

Before I say this I want to clarify that apart from expressing for 6 weeks, my LO was FF: I personally feel that BFers do get the rawer end of the deal and it does look to me as though people who BF aren't allowed to express their view on the FF side as clearly or as frankly as FFers expressing about BF. It just seems to me as though FFing is more socially acceptable - the only person I know who BFed is my sister in law, everyone else who I associate with; friends, family, extended family, etc, have all FFed. So, aside from the possible emotional factors to be considered with someone who had to chose to FF when BFing didn't work out, I think this could be the reason why it looks to me BFers have to fight their corner more so to speak (not that I'm saying there is a 'fight' as such).

I think this is the issue that is most important to deal with to try and bridge the divide: BFing needs to be more socially acceptable in general, then this would perhaps help women who have tried and ultimately not managed (such as myself!) to BF to be more successful.

I don't know if what I have said is diplomatic enough to have not caused offence and if it has then I apologise, this is just my penneth's worth, and just one little person's opinion!!

 

[leelee]

I have been away until now.

All I was trying to say is that I don't think it is right to post such a scary article. I would neve post one on FF, BF, tinned food etc etc that could potentially frighten other mothers.

And to say that people who frighten easily shouldn't come on the net is daft??? That article would cause anxiety for a lot of FF mothers, not just the easily frightened ones.

I don't think every post should be censored, but I also think a lot of people on here are not able to think outside their own situation, and how something might affect others.

Even if all of us here on BnB decided not to post potentially frightening articles, the rest of internet population would probably not be with us, so the easily frightened ones would still stumble upon the scary information and get frightened.
And I think information is generally neutral, it is how we take it that is of importance. I personally choose to know rather than ignore things that I don't like or that don't fit with my views (of course no info should be believed blindly).

I also like to do my own research with regards BF, food, parenting methods, weaning etc etc. Unfortunately no amount of research into formula was going to be able to prevent us from using it as my LO would not latch on, despite a fantastic support system.

There have been other reasons outlined in this thread as to why women can't FF, such as childhood abuse/trauma, breast removal, birth injury etc. So for many women there is no choice when it comes to BF or FF. And this is why I object to this particular article being posted.

As I have said time and time again. I know breast is best. I know formula is not as good. No-one has to keep telling me that. What I don't like are scary articles suggesting that I might have contributed to my child getting dementia later in life. Please don't tell me any mum would like to read that.

By the way Rach27, I am not getting at you as I feel we have agreed to disagree and think we have managed to sort out our disagreement in a mature manner. I am just responding to IvyBaby.

Hun, I don't question that some moms indeed have no choice, I had to supplement for the first 4 months too because of low supply and other problems, I am just saying that there are people for who this kind of info could be beneficial (to help them make the right choice, for example), but the rest who already have made this choice or maybe did not really have a choice at all, should just ignore it and move on. Why should this become an argument at all, I don't understand.

I think we will also have to agree to disagree on this one as well.

 

[smokey]

I commented on this a while back but have been reading it here and there as it's gone along.

Before I say this I want to clarify that apart from expressing for 6 weeks, my LO was FF: I personally feel that BFers do get the rawer end of the deal and it does look to me as though people who BF aren't allowed to express their view on the FF side as clearly or as frankly as FFers expressing about BF. It just seems to me as though FFing is more socially acceptable - the only person I know who BFed is my sister in law, everyone else who I associate with; friends, family, extended family, etc, have all FFed. So, aside from the possible emotional factors to be considered with someone who had to chose to FF when BFing didn't work out, I think this could be the reason why it looks to me BFers have to fight their corner more so to speak (not that I'm saying there is a 'fight' as such).

I think this is the issue that is most important to deal with to try and bridge the divide: BFing needs to be more socially acceptable in general, then this would perhaps help women who have tried and ultimately not managed (such as myself!) to BF to be more successful.

I don't know if what I have said is diplomatic enough to have not caused offence and if it has then I apologise, this is just my penneth's worth, and just one little person's opinion!!

No offence taken by what you have said at all
but
I find it to be the other way round, it always seems to be ff (not just on this but in life too) that are being told ff is bad, ff is fake, ff can cause dementia blah blah blah where as no one makes or has any reason to make any claims such as these towards bf.
Yes from society they may get the leave it at home type of rubish but at least no one ever tells them they may be killing or harming their baby and for this I think ff get the rawer end of it all.
Of course im only realy refering to attatuides here not so much when it comes to actual feeding as then bf do get it worse by being told sill things like if it hurts your not doing right and just get on with it

I think is like anything in life though, no matter what views or choices you make it will always seem like someone is out to make judgment against you.
If you get your baby vacinated there will always be people that say your endangering them, if you dont there will always be people who say your stupid, if you use one brand of somthing there will always be people who say your killing the planet you should do it differently

 

[bubbles123]

What ever you do as a mother is wrong. You can find studies that show pretty much anything will cause cancers/lead to an early death. The Daily Mail thrives on telling us every day exactly what's going to kill us next... You really can't worry about it all too much.
Many factors affect your health now and in the future... these things are never clear cut.
And I too feel FF'ers get the raw end of the deal. BF'ers may get told by the ignorant that it's disgusting or whatever but I bet they don't have to constantly feed their child something that they're told again and again is suboptimal, leads to poorer health etc. That's a killer for your mental health and self esteem as a mother. BF'ers know their child is getting the best milk whatever people that knock BF'ing may say. So Ff'ers definitely get the poorer deal!

 

[jojo2605]

I think it must depend on where we live as to what type of views we are exposed to. I have never seen FF be denounced by anyone throughout my life. When pregnant with Sam and when he was born, no one even so much as even suggested BFing to me, it was almost assumed that FF was the initial option. Despite me saying early on that I intended to attempt BFing (again, this didn't work out for us). Also, I really worried when pregnant how my family would deal with the whole bresatfeeding issue. They (mostly my Oh's family) would kinda screw up their nose when I mentioned it and when I was expressing, if they got my milk on them they would say things like "yuk that's disgusting" etc.

I think you're right that medical research and reports often come out which may suggest that formula isn't great in one aspect or another, but surely this is a good thing if any kinks in the ingredients can be ironed out and improved? As I have just read in the last couple of threads, no matter what we do as mothers, someone will always critisise anyway so I just think sometimes we have to just do what we feel honestly in our hearts is the right thing and if we honestly feel that is the case, comments to the contrary should just bounce off!

 

[Dragonfly]

I think it must depend on where we live as to what type of views we are exposed to. I have never seen FF be denounced by anyone throughout my life. When pregnant with Sam and when he was born, no one even so much as even suggested BFing to me, it was almost assumed that FF was the initial option. Despite me saying early on that I intended to attempt BFing (again, this didn't work out for us). Also, I really worried when pregnant how my family would deal with the whole bresatfeeding issue. They (mostly my Oh's family) would kinda screw up their nose when I mentioned it and when I was expressing, if they got my milk on them they would say things like "yuk that's disgusting" etc.

I was about to say it must be an area thing to as no one ever would say anything bad about formula where I am, we all had it, all our friends and family had it and its the way to go. I have had many people saying yuk to me for breastfeeding and asking why I simply havnt switched to formula then get offended when I say I dont want to. Friends have asked why am I doing it when formula is the same and to give myself a break and just get bottles in. Then its thrown in my face about how their kids are fine on formula when I havnt even said a word about any of it to them. I doint have any fam or friends that visit any more. I have a Health visitor who always says my milk is no good after 6 months also. I dont care who feeds their child formula just let me feed my child what I want to, its not a dig to any of my fam or my friends just my choice like they made theirs.

 

[jojo2605]

I think it must depend on where we live as to what type of views we are exposed to. I have never seen FF be denounced by anyone throughout my life. When pregnant with Sam and when he was born, no one even so much as even suggested BFing to me, it was almost assumed that FF was the initial option. Despite me saying early on that I intended to attempt BFing (again, this didn't work out for us). Also, I really worried when pregnant how my family would deal with the whole bresatfeeding issue. They (mostly my Oh's family) would kinda screw up their nose when I mentioned it and when I was expressing, if they got my milk on them they would say things like "yuk that's disgusting" etc.

I was about to say it must be an area thing to as no one ever would say anything bad about formula where I am, we all had it, all our friends and family had it and its the way to go. I have had many people saying yuk to me for breastfeeding and asking why I simply havnt switched to formula then get offended when I say I dont want to. Friends have asked why am I doing it when formula is the same and to give myself a break and just get bottles in. Then its thrown in my face about how their kids are fine on formula when I havnt even said a word about any of it to them. I doint have any fam or friends that visit any more. I have a Health visitor who always says my milk is no good after 6 months also. I dont care who feeds their child formula just let me feed my child what I want to, its not a dig to any of my fam or my friends just my choice like they made theirs.

I guess this epitomises what I was saying really - things can be hard to deal with and offensive on both sides. I'm sure the fact that you knew you were doing what you thought was the right thing and the 'best' for your baby didn't particularly help at the time when all you heard was how much better and simpler FF was. I think either side it's hard depending on what you're exposed to.

 

[Rach27]

Agree. Everyone's experience is going to be different. Out of the four other girls I met at antenatal, I am the only one BF'ing now so I feel quite alone there. I haven't had the extreme experience that Dragonfly has had but I can empathise with how she feels to a certain extent. Though now I'm past my 'hard' part (getting him to latch and feel confident my supply was meeting his demand), I feel determined to continue until he self weans. I have already had to defend my decision to BF among my family and am fully prepared to do so as we move along through the months.

Rambling a bit - sorry! To get back to what I was going to say....

Having FF and BF, I have definitely copped more flack BF'ing mainly because it is not the social norm around me. I have complaints from my family that I'm being selfish by not letting them feed Thomas, that I'm making a rod for my own back and encouraging him to be clingy, that I should be indulging myself and getting dome time out instead of feeding him on demand...etc...

If I was still in NZ, this wouldn't be the case as BF'ing is the social norm.

 

[leelee]

Agree. Everyone's experience is going to be different. Out of the four other girls I met at antenatal, I am the only one BF'ing now so I feel quite alone there. I haven't had the extreme experience that Dragonfly has had but I can empathise with how she feels to a certain extent. Though now I'm past my 'hard' part (getting him to latch and feel confident my supply was meeting his demand), I feel determined to continue until he self weans. I have already had to defend my decision to BF among my family and am fully prepared to do so as we move along through the months.

Rambling a bit - sorry! To get back to what I was going to say....

Having FF and BF, I have definitely copped more flack BF'ing mainly because it is not the social norm around me. I have complaints from my family that I'm being selfish by not letting them feed Thomas, that I'm making a rod for my own back and encouraging him to be clingy, that I should be indulging myself and getting dome time out instead of feeding him on demand...etc...

If I was still in NZ, this wouldn't be the case as BF'ing is the social norm.

It must be hard when they are so unsupportive.

Where I am from and where I live now BF is the norm but I am lucky as no-one looks down on me because I FF. I used to feel like I needed to justify why I didn't BF but I am over that now as I tried my best and as my LO is 6 months a lot of other mums have stopped so I don't feel the odd one out with the bottle.

 

[MikaylasMummy]

i totally agree its an area issue!where im from the midwives are very VERY against giving u formula or allowing u to use it/help u..i bf because i wanted to for numerous reasons..but back to the original post i really think formula adverts dont really have much to do with people decisions..if someone wants to breastfeed..they want to breastfeed..like i myself did not buy ANY bottles(apart from what came with my expresser) where as i know plenty of women go out and buy a full set of bottles while they are still pregnant..their minds are made up through their attitudes i think..and for those who wanted to and tried to bf and couldnt do it the same thing goes..im sure the adverts had nothing to do with their decisions either..
i am so lucky here in australia i never got dirty looks for bf in public(and i did it anywhere i wanted)if anything i mostly got looks from older ladies to say good on you type of thing..which was very encouraging.i guess we are a bit more laid back down here cos i havnt really known anyone to be slated for doing either =)

 

[polo_princess]

Around here its a predominatley FF area, BF isnt really "pushed" here either, they kind of just go wth the flow and dont push you either way really.

I must say of all of my friends that have had children in the last 2 years only 2 out of 10 have BF

 

[bambino156]

I totally agree that it is probably an area thing as to what is the 'norm' and what is more 'acceptable'. I recently read that you are more likely to breastfeed if you are: having your first baby, aged 30 or above, middle class, university educated and have friends who breastfed. Of course I know that this isn't always the case, but I believe this is probably very true. So the way I see it is, if you live in an affluent area with lots of successful women, that have more than likely been to uni to get their career and have probably decided to have children later as a result of said career, then it is probably an area where bf is commonplace.