Vaccine Video

[xemmax]

YESSSS after almost an entire year of complaining I am finally in news & debates...can we please take a moment to rejoice

 

[louandivy]

Just some mistake I think, I thought I had been banned for being a rude bitch

 

[pinklightbulb]

Least it's sorted now

 

[ttc_lolly]

you are just confirming exactly everything i just said
i never swore by babyjayne.
it was a general statement that the comment was rude.
some of these comments are extremely insensitive and offensive.
i personally believe whatever the parents choose is fine.
i don't get why people have to offend.

i think other comments people are saying are more hurtful than the f-bomb.

i used to think you were really nice, and i have no idea why you feel the need to attack me

Attacking you? I think you are being mildly over sensitive, all I did was point out there was no need to swear ("YOU ARE SO FUCKING RUDE" quote you) to get your point across, and all you've done since is call me rude for pointing that out to you. Anyway sorry you feel that way, but I still don't understand why you're so irate.

Let's get the thread back on topic!

 

[EllaAndLyla]

I think it's a big difference if you believe in herd immunity or not. If you do, then any eneccesary weaknesses in the system make the whole system more vulnerable.
Its just not the same as say refusing to give your child cough medicine.... Cough medicine will not reduce the chances that your child can catch an illness and spread it, not vaccinating DOES have an effect on others.

It is an individual's choice, but you can't pretend there is no potential for impact on others. That doesn't mean you have to vaccinate just to make other people happy, but I feel like many non-vaccinators ignore the possible impact on others and THAT does bother me.

Can I ask a serious question, I am not being rude or anything at all but genuinely curious.

How can not vaccinating your child have any effect on others because they are already vaccinated? therefore 'can't' get the illness? So in reality the only people that would have any 'effect' from an un-vaccined child is a child that is also un-vaccined? Which both would have most likely not been vaccinated from choice of parent/gaurdian. Those with vaccinations would be, in reality, immune from this illness so why worry? I don't really understand, sorry.

Hope that makes sense!

 

[mommyof3co]

I was under the impression that even in the military you can choose? That they can only actually require it of the person actually enlisted...but not their dependents? So they can't say your kids have to be or their spouse has to be?

 

[pinklightbulb]

I've often wondered this too, and as I said above thread somewhere, some people's bodies reject the vaccine so they can still contract/carry whatever it is that they never produced antibodies against, which isn't their fault, so are they to be blamed for messing up the 'herd immunity' as well anyway?

 

[Breezy]

I've been told that we have no choice but to vaccinate lo and I know the kids in base schools have to be as well.

 

[BabyJayne]

I think it's a big difference if you believe in herd immunity or not. If you do, then any eneccesary weaknesses in the system make the whole system more vulnerable.
Its just not the same as say refusing to give your child cough medicine.... Cough medicine will not reduce the chances that your child can catch an illness and spread it, not vaccinating DOES have an effect on others.

It is an individual's choice, but you can't pretend there is no potential for impact on others. That doesn't mean you have to vaccinate just to make other people happy, but I feel like many non-vaccinators ignore the possible impact on others and THAT does bother me.

I agree with you in many respects. And thinking about it from an analytical viewpoint I would say that everyone should vaccinate.

But - as a mother I don't think you make a decision for your child based on the greater good of society. I vaccinate because that is what I want for my daughter. It just so happens that it is what "should" be for the greater good. If vaccinating was against the greater good, I would have done it anyway because DH and I decided that was what we thought was best for her.

The majority of people vaccinate. Mostly because they are told to - it's just what happens. Others look into it more deeply, an vaccinate, and others look into it more deeply and don't vaccinate. Where we are now can accommodate that. And as vaccines are not 100 per cent effective - the infection rates could be similar with everyone having injections.

 

[BabyJayne]

I think it's a big difference if you believe in herd immunity or not. If you do, then any eneccesary weaknesses in the system make the whole system more vulnerable.
Its just not the same as say refusing to give your child cough medicine.... Cough medicine will not reduce the chances that your child can catch an illness and spread it, not vaccinating DOES have an effect on others.

It is an individual's choice, but you can't pretend there is no potential for impact on others. That doesn't mean you have to vaccinate just to make other people happy, but I feel like many non-vaccinators ignore the possible impact on others and THAT does bother me.

Can I ask a serious question, I am not being rude or anything at all but genuinely curious.

How can not vaccinating your child have any effect on others because they are already vaccinated? therefore 'can't' get the illness? So in reality the only people that would have any 'effect' from an un-vaccined child is a child that is also un-vaccined? Which both would have most likely not been vaccinated from choice of parent/gaurdian. Those with vaccinations would be, in reality, immune from this illness so why worry? I don't really understand, sorry.

Hope that makes sense!

In basic terms it's because vaccines do not give 100 per cent immunity. The disease can still spread, and unvaccinated children would have a higher chance of catching it in theory - therefore increasing the risk for those who have gone through having the vaccine. The idea is that if everyone is vaccinated, the overall risk is lower as there is less chance of it being passed on.

Or something like that...

 

[lisaf]

I think it's a big difference if you believe in herd immunity or not. If you do, then any eneccesary weaknesses in the system make the whole system more vulnerable.
Its just not the same as say refusing to give your child cough medicine.... Cough medicine will not reduce the chances that your child can catch an illness and spread it, not vaccinating DOES have an effect on others.

It is an individual's choice, but you can't pretend there is no potential for impact on others. That doesn't mean you have to vaccinate just to make other people happy, but I feel like many non-vaccinators ignore the possible impact on others and THAT does bother me.

Can I ask a serious question, I am not being rude or anything at all but genuinely curious.

How can not vaccinating your child have any effect on others because they are already vaccinated? therefore 'can't' get the illness? So in reality the only people that would have any 'effect' from an un-vaccined child is a child that is also un-vaccined? Which both would have most likely not been vaccinated from choice of parent/gaurdian. Those with vaccinations would be, in reality, immune from this illness so why worry? I don't really understand, sorry.

Hope that makes sense!

(First off, I totally appreciate your tone, and know what you are saying)

The biggest at risk population would be people who cannot vaccinate due to medical reactions to the vaccine. Also, people too young to be vaccinated.

Also, the numbers game indicates that the more unvaccinated people there are, the higher chance of you still catching it even if you were vaccinated if you happen to be unlucky enough not to have full protection.
https://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/training/overview/pdf/eradicationhistory.pdf
Slide 23 - infection rate was 58% in unvaccinated households. In vaccinated households it was 3.8%. So, out of 100 people who were vaccinated, about 3 might still catch the illness. The more you are exposed to it, the higher chance you have of getting it. So if you're in a group of 100 unvaccinated people and 58 have it, your chances of contracting it are much higher than if you're in a group of 100 other vaccinated people with only 3 people in the group capable of passing it to you.

 

[lisaf]

I've often wondered this too, and as I said above thread somewhere, some people's bodies reject the vaccine so they can still contract/carry whatever it is that they never produced antibodies against, which isn't their fault, so are they to be blamed for messing up the 'herd immunity' as well anyway?

Herd immunity is acquired at a certain % of vaccination. (see slide 17 https://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/training/overview/pdf/eradicationhistory.pdf)
So the herd immunity theory can accomodate a certain number of unvaccinated individuals.

 

[EllaAndLyla]

Thanks for explaining lisa, i was extremely confused!! x

 

[lisaf]

I think it's a big difference if you believe in herd immunity or not. If you do, then any eneccesary weaknesses in the system make the whole system more vulnerable.
Its just not the same as say refusing to give your child cough medicine.... Cough medicine will not reduce the chances that your child can catch an illness and spread it, not vaccinating DOES have an effect on others.

It is an individual's choice, but you can't pretend there is no potential for impact on others. That doesn't mean you have to vaccinate just to make other people happy, but I feel like many non-vaccinators ignore the possible impact on others and THAT does bother me.

I agree with you in many respects. And thinking about it from an analytical viewpoint I would say that everyone should vaccinate.

But - as a mother I don't think you make a decision for your child based on the greater good of society. I vaccinate because that is what I want for my daughter. It just so happens that it is what "should" be for the greater good. If vaccinating was against the greater good, I would have done it anyway because DH and I decided that was what we thought was best for her.

The majority of people vaccinate. Mostly because they are told to - it's just what happens. Others look into it more deeply, an vaccinate, and others look into it more deeply and don't vaccinate. Where we are now can accommodate that. And as vaccines are not 100 per cent effective - the infection rates could be similar with everyone having injections.

I do understand this, and think that it is our right to make those choices. I just also understand the worries as someone who believes in vaccinations that my child may get infected due to the % of effectiveness or before they are vaccinated. So I understand that fear as well. I just really want the parents making those choices to understand that their choice could have potential consequences for someone else's family.

And what if that 'someone else' was a relative of yours.... say your child happened to catch a disease (which they are less likely to do because of the other people who do vaccinate) and passed it on to their cousin who was either allergic to the vaccine ingredients or was too young to get their vaccination and died from it? I'm not sayign this WILL happen, but that its a possibility.
IF your child was vaccinated and still caught the disease and unknowingly passed it on, you would at least know that you did what you could to stop it.

Its still your choice to vaccinate or not, but just respect and understand that it can impact someone else.

 

[mommyof3co]

I've been told that we have no choice but to vaccinate lo and I know the kids in base schools have to be as well.

I just asked around to some military friends, some of which don't vaccinate. You don't have to, they said the only issue might be on base child care or going certain places overseas. But there are ways around that apparently too, she said a friend got around it when going to Japan but she wasn't sure what she had to do. I just asked about on base schooling, if there were any exemptions like public schools but she hasn't answered yet. Obviously it doesn't matter to you since you feel strongly about vaccinating...but for anyone else who might be wondering...it isn't mandatory.

 

[Lina]

satine51: I am still waiting to hear what exactly is wrong with alternative medicine. You cant come here insinuating rubbish without evidence detailing what exactly is wrong with 1000s of years of such use. There is a reason why many people are reverting back to it and have become disillusioned with conventional medicine.

 

[BabyJayne]

The doctor offices here have begun letting the families of unvaxed children know they are no longer welcome there and are not allowed to be seen at those clinics. I think 3-4 offices have already refused to see children that aren't vaxed and more to follow suit.

You will be okay though because you live in the desert according to your avatar.

That probably accounts for your complete lack of social skills.

im sorry but that was SO FUCKING RUDE.
where do you laides get off speaking like that?
this thread needs to be closed!

Oooh she's pulled the big guns out - CAPITALS

You think thats rude, yet some small minded person accusing people of child abuse ok!?!? Hmmmmm

why is EVERYBODY being so rude?!
i have not said a single thing about whether to vaccinate or not.
wow, you all are showing your true colors.

Yes and so you keep saying. If you haven't said a single thing on this thread to contribute to it's topic, why are you here, just to tell people how rude they are? To argue?

I can see a select few disgustingly rude comments on this thread by a couple of members, that have, rightly so, been challenged for being so wrong & negative. That is all.

you are so rude i can't stand it.
what did i even say to you?

Obviously just to tell people they are rude then

You swore at babyjayne, which is why I quoted you in the first place.

you are just confirming exactly everything i just said
i never swore by babyjayne.
it was a general statement that the comment was rude.
some of these comments are extremely insensitive and offensive.
i personally believe whatever the parents choose is fine.
i don't get why people have to offend.

i think other comments people are saying are more hurtful than the f-bomb.

i used to think you were really nice, and i have no idea why you feel the need to attack me

You did. You quoted me and said that was "SO FUCKING RUDE".

You can't make a general statement while quoting and commenting on a specific post that you have chosen to quote. And then you laughingly follow it up with "some comments and extremely insensitive and offensive".

Sorry admin if highlighting this here is not playing the game - but I just wanted to point out that you can't play Good Cop and Bad Cop all at the same time. Or say something that could be deemed as offensive (if you don't have rhino skin like me) and then moan about insensitive and offensive quotes.

If you want to add anything to this, best to do it via PM.

 

[Breezy]

I've been told that we have no choice but to vaccinate lo and I know the kids in base schools have to be as well.

I just asked around to some military friends, some of which don't vaccinate. You don't have to, they said the only issue might be on base child care or going certain places overseas. But there are ways around that apparently too, she said a friend got around it when going to Japan but she wasn't sure what she had to do. I just asked about on base schooling, if there were any exemptions like public schools but she hasn't answered yet. Obviously it doesn't matter to you since you feel strongly about vaccinating...but for anyone else who might be wondering...it isn't mandatory.

And I was told at our first appt we had no choice. Not to mention I do daycare for military children so I'm required to be as well.

 

[pinklightbulb]

Thank you, lisaf You explain things very well.

 

[mommyof3co]

I've been told that we have no choice but to vaccinate lo and I know the kids in base schools have to be as well.

I just asked around to some military friends, some of which don't vaccinate. You don't have to, they said the only issue might be on base child care or going certain places overseas. But there are ways around that apparently too, she said a friend got around it when going to Japan but she wasn't sure what she had to do. I just asked about on base schooling, if there were any exemptions like public schools but she hasn't answered yet. Obviously it doesn't matter to you since you feel strongly about vaccinating...but for anyone else who might be wondering...it isn't mandatory.

And I was told at our first appt we had no choice. Not to mention I do daycare for military children so I'm required to be as well.

I'm not questioning your reason to. You may need to to have your child in daycare (or to run one) but the military does not require enlisted members children to be vaccinated. So again, no where in the US is it actually mandatory to vaccinate your children.