Vitamin B6 - Lengthen luteal phase or increase progesterone

[ebony2010]

Ooh not far then. xxx

 

[googly]

Well, managed to get an appointment with the nice doc this morning...

She was very pleased to see I was charting - and said it's clear I'm definitely ovulating so no need to worry about that. However, she didn't seem to think my short LP - 7 days - was a problem, even though my instincts tell me it is.

She's given me a form for CD21 blood tests to check progesterone levels... i think there's a big chance they'll come back low which could be causing the LP defect.

However, she seemed convinced it was supposed to be done on exactly CD21 for every women... my research has told me it's meant to be at around 7dpo to check for hormone levels a week after ovulation! I don't ovulate until around CD22, if not later, so if my progesterone is checked at CD21 then it's bound to be very low as i'll be pre-ov... which will make the results totally useless, surely?

She's given me the form to book the blood test... so... do I go for CD21 or for the day I will actually be 7dpo? I'm leaning towards 7dpo but would love to hear anyone else's opinions or experiences.

People who've had CD21 tests... when did you have yours?

Hi 254! That sounds pretttty much like my doc experience.... except mine was less interested in my charts.

Re. the cd21 blood test - I had that dilemma as well - I hedged my bets in the end, cd21 fell on a Saturday anyway, which wasn't convenient to go to the lab... so I went on the Monday at cd23 which was 5dpo. The FS I saw later told me that was spot on - it *is* supposed to be 7dpo, but that's still based on the 'average' cycle and the 14-day 'normal' LP. What they're aiming for is the progesterone in the *middle*/highest point of your LP... so if your LP is only 8 or 9 days, 4 or 5 dpo is the ideal.

So - FWIW - I'd aim for something like that... if you're temping, wait until you get to your highest temps at what would usually be the mid-ish point of your LP.

GL!! Glad you had a nice doc...

Oh hey, when they call you with the results, or when you see them for the results, ask them for the exact number and units of the result. One thing I've learned with GPs is that when they get the blood results back, they're given the "normal range" with the results - which is *massive*... and if your result is within that range, they'll just tell you it's normal, when it might actually be at the lowest or highest margin of that range. It'd be good info for you to know where you are in that range... (mine did exactly that - told me it was normal; the FS later told me it was at the way lowest end of normal, and most likely an issue).

 

[struth]

Googly - you've moved your O? Did it move when you discarded the 'poorly' temps or did you move it?

 

[googly]

Googly - you've moved your O? Did it move when you discarded the 'poorly' temps or did you move it?

Hey struth, nah I put it in... when I discarded those two temps (finally decided to do it!) it still kept it at cd15, which was weird. Anyway I really think it was cd 17 or 18 - I've put it in at cd17 just because when I line cd17 up with my last 4 charts, they all match *perfectly* - so I think that's it. Probably. Maybe.

So I had that big drop today... a bfn... and feeling AF like... so not looking too hopeful but you're not out til you're out eh!

Good to see yours is still dropping!

 

[struth]

D'oh - was so busy looking at your O date that I didn't notice the temp drop (or have you just put that in?).

It it so annoying when you have ambiguous temps right around O isn't it? I had that last cycle which meant I didn't know when to test but then when I got my bfp I didn't know when we had conceived. D'oh....

I'm going to say that your temp drop is implantation and I won't believe otherwise until you tell me that the nasty has arrived. I hope she doesn't though.

 

[googly]

Ha, thanks... yeah the ambiguous ov is REAL annoying -- it's the first time I've had that, every other month we've been ttc it's been really clear! Just that damn cold I had right at the crucial moment - totes threw it out I think. At least we had it covered BD wise... mostly... although - TMI - they were pretty lame attempts given we were both sick

Ah well, i'm not toooo gutted if we move on to next month - I've got all my supplements, softcups etc lined up ready to go! All out I tell you!!

 

[Raven_Moon]

Hey ladies!

Hope that was an implantation dip googly, and I hear you on ambiguous O! I swear I feel like i am going insane wondering if I've ovulated or worrying I won't, or wondering if its coming!

Glad you appear to be getting somewhere 254! I remember when I saw the midwife the mirning on my chemical pregnancy and she was telling me I was 5 and a galf weeks pregnant and I was Luke, I only ovulated 16 days ago and she looked at me luke i wad mad!

I'm thinking of stopping taking the b vitamin complex today, do you know,if thete ate any side effects from stopping? I'm just sick of having these wierd temps and now my cm seems to habe dried up but temps not showing ovulation. This has not happened my two other cycles so cam only assume b vits?

 

[LancyLass]

I had a chemical pregnancy last cycle so I guess after it happened I git paranoid and wondered whether it could be due to low progesterone, so thought it would my hurt to give it a try!

I stopped taking birth control in march, didn't chart my first 2 cycles, but thwy appear to be about 36-39 days long, so not massive variation but quite long.

Just took my b but for today lol, but if there are no developments tommorrow then maybe ill try a day not taking them. I guess I'm worried that might make things eorse, like make af come or something!

Hey ladies!

I'm thinking of stopping taking the b vitamin complex today, do you know,if thete ate any side effects from stopping? I'm just sick of having these wierd temps and now my cm seems to habe dried up but temps not showing ovulation. This has not happened my two other cycles so cam only assume b vits?

Hey Raven. If you had a chemical last month it's highly likely that has thrown your cycle out. Apparently some docs recommend you waiting a month after a chemical before TTC again (although others say don't worry about it, so I wouldn't worry about it, but it shows that chemicals can muck up your cycle).

Plus they say it can take 6 months for cycles to sort themselves out after being on the BCP so that might also be having an effect.

I haven't heard of Vit B mucking up cycles. My doc said "there's no harm in trying it" when I asked about taking it. My understanding is that a Vit B6 deficiency can cause problems so taking extra can help sort it out, and the body excretes anything over and above what it doesn't need. If you take massive doses (over 200mg a day) it can have a harmful effect, but on nervous systems, nothing about fertility.

Anyway, that's just my opinion based on my own internet research - I'm no scientist or doctor!

Well, managed to get an appointment with the nice doc this morning...

She was very pleased to see I was charting - and said it's clear I'm definitely ovulating so no need to worry about that. However, she didn't seem to think my short LP - 7 days - was a problem, even though my instincts tell me it is.

She's given me a form for CD21 blood tests to check progesterone levels... i think there's a big chance they'll come back low which could be causing the LP defect.

However, she seemed convinced it was supposed to be done on exactly CD21 for every women... my research has told me it's meant to be at around 7dpo to check for hormone levels a week after ovulation! I don't ovulate until around CD22, if not later, so if my progesterone is checked at CD21 then it's bound to be very low as i'll be pre-ov... which will make the results totally useless, surely?

She's given me the form to book the blood test... so... do I go for CD21 or for the day I will actually be 7dpo? I'm leaning towards 7dpo but would love to hear anyone else's opinions or experiences.

People who've had CD21 tests... when did you have yours?

Hi 254, I had the same dilemma. My doc acknowldeged that with my cycle 21 days might not be right, but she booked me for 14 days and 21 days instead because my cycle can be short - so still not quite getting the concept that 14 days would be way too early for me as my short cycle is caused by having a short LP! It worked out OK for me in the end because that month I did Ov on either day 13 or 15, so the test was on either day 6 or 8 (most likely 6) so it was at the right time. Haven't got my results yet. Need to phone up the doc today and ask about them.

As for me, temp dipped a bit this morning. I know one small dip doesn't necessarily mean anything but abdomen is also starting to feel a tiny bit achey.

My dilemma about the Vit B is whether to carry on taking it if it doesn't have any effect? I HATE taking it. You wouldn't believe the fuss I make - I have such problems trying to swallow the table. DH laughs at me every day when I'm trying to swallow it going "swallow... swallow... just swallow it!" (If anyone was listening they'd think something else was going on!)

 

[254]

Thanks for all the useful info girls... much appreciated. Interesting point googly about the 'mid point' - I can totally see how that makes sense. 7dpo for me would be 1 day before my period arrives, so I guess my progesterone will already be dropping by then...

I think I might go for whenever I can get a slot around CD26-28... although it's CD15 today and I'm already starting to get a little more fertile, so perhaps I'll ovulate even earlier than CD21 this cycle! We shall see...

Will definitely ask for the actual numbers... good point. I do that with my thyroid function tests (I have an underactive thyroid) as there's a massive range of 'normal' and I like to know where I am within it. Will do the same with fertility stuff. Plan on seeing doc a week after tests so I should know how they've come out 3 weeks from now.

Googly... it's not over til the fat lady sings. Fingers crossed!! And even if your period does show, maybe it'll hold off another day so you have a 'normal' LP? Obviously pregnancy is far preferable, but looking at the positives!!

Lancylass - hope your test results give you some answers.

BTW, I'm a total fraud still posting here as I'm not actually taking B6 this cycle, but I just can't leave you lovely ladies!

 

[LancyLass]

My dilemma about the Vit B is whether to carry on taking it if it doesn't have any effect? I HATE taking it. You wouldn't believe the fuss I make - I have such problems trying to swallow the table. DH laughs at me every day when I'm trying to swallow it going "swallow... swallow... just swallow it!" (If anyone was listening they'd think something else was going on!)

I just read the end of my last post and noticed my typo: "I have such problems trying to swallow the table". I've now got a great image in my head of me trying to shove a table in my mouth.

 

[Raven_Moon]

My dilemma about the Vit B is whether to carry on taking it if it doesn't have any effect? I HATE taking it. You wouldn't believe the fuss I make - I have such problems trying to swallow the table. DH laughs at me every day when I'm trying to swallow it going "swallow... swallow... just swallow it!" (If anyone was listening they'd think something else was going on!)

I just read the end of my last post and noticed my typo: "I have such problems trying to swallow the table". I've now got a great image in my head of me trying to shove a table in my mouth.

Lol, that gave me an amusing image as well!

Well, I've decided to not take my b vitamin today, I was deliberating, but then i had a random thought about my first cycle charting, the cycle that made me worry I had a short luteal phase.

That cycle was a nightmare because ff said I O'd on CD15 so I was like yay I'm normal, but then after I kept getting bfns and no af I was panicing, then someone on ff forum said ought have ovulated later as a 20+ luteal phase is unheard of, so I messed about with the ovulation predictor and it changed my O date to CD25 based on temps and the fact id put in watery cm that day.

But upon reflection and looking at the temps I could have just as eadily as ovulated on CD20, which is where the start on my upward trend began. I wasn't doing opks that cycle like i was with my lady cycle where I got the chemucal pregnancy so the O date is ambiguous.

If I did infact O on or around CD20 that cycle it would make my luteal phase 16 days, just like my chemical cycle which was 16 days, I had assumed it was longer due to the chemical pregnancy, but maybe that's my normal length.

So I guess taking a high dose of b vitamins when your luteal phase is already long enough could vause problems as b vits work by lowering prolactin levels which interfere with progestetone etc, but if my prolactin levels are already in balance then lowering prolactin can cause problems, such as supressing O.

This is all purely speculation but it kind of makes sense, or as much sense as my reasons for takung them in the first place.

I'm a little worried stopping taking them will make af appear, as I read happened to someine previously in this thread.

Lancylass and 254, I hope you get some answets soon, this is such a fraustrating process!

 

[struth]

BTW, I'm a total fraud still posting here as I'm not actually taking B6 this cycle, but I just can't leave you lovely ladies!

Ahhh...stay! We will give you honorary status!

LancyLass -

Raven Moon - hmmm.... it might be worth you stopping taking them for a couple of cycles and seeing what happens. I don't think you can have too much b vit though as we expell what the body doesn't need in our urine so I'm not sure on whether it would affect your O because you wouldn't be having any more than your body needs anyway (does that make sense? It does in my head). If you are concerned though it would perhaps be worth having a couple of natural cycles and seeing what happens. Hopefully you will have a bfp and it will all be irrelevant! Are you able to post a link to your charts?

 

[googly]

Hi gals, well the got me... Had that 'feeling' all day yesterday so I fully knew I was going to wake up with it today. Ah well.

So another ov=17, LP=9 cycle... At least it's 'regular'!!

I'm fine with AF, a bit disappointed the Clomid didn't seem to have any discernible impact on my cycle will give it a couple more months.

So - September! FX for bigger and better things for all of us!

 

[Raven_Moon]

Googly, so sorry af arrived its such a horrid sight to see. Is there anything new you have been thinking of trying this cycle? Could the doctor up your clomid if its not workunh at the dose you are taking?

Struth - you're probably right and they're not doing harm, but i thubk ill feel better of them, if that makes sense. Is live you to look at my charts but I dont know how to link them in my signiture lol!

Edit: maybe this will work...

www.fertilityfriend.com/home/393f0f/

 

[googly]

Hi Raven, thanks, yeah I'd rather not see it first thing of a morning for sure! Was pretty much expecting it though. Ah well.

And re. the B6 - I do still doubt it's causing your issues but you should absolutely do what is going to make you feel most at ease. And since your cycles aren't far off being 'normal', chances are you don't need too much supplement, just time for things to slot into order. GL!!

 

[googly]

Oh sorry, re this cycle... I'm actually not going to do anything different this cycle - will is unusual for me! Want to give the Clomid another chance to work. It didn't seem to do much this cycle but I had only just stopped taking agnus castus, and part of me is wondering whether that cancelled out the Clomid almost (they are supposed to do that).

So this month I will take 50mg Clomid, CD3-7; usual pre-natal + royal jelly + L-Arginine (may up the dose on the latter two); I'll continue with the B50 as I don't think it'll harm... I'll up the Robitussin, green tea, and grapefruit juice if the CM is looking a bit scanty at CD10 onwards.... and I'll continue with acupuncture x 1 a week. Will probably also do the Bromelain caps post-ov to try to help implantation as well. And that's me!

 

[Raven_Moon]

Yeah I read somewhere that agnud castus and clomid cancel each other out so hopefully thats why you didn't have much lick with it! Fingers crossed this moth will be better.

I've been having crampy pains today a bit more than the random on and iff ones, do hoping I might finally be gearing up to ovulate...only time will tell I guess!

Back to work tomorrow (I'm a teacher so been on summer holidays) which I'm glad about because I need to focus in something else and not ttc!

 

[Emmediva]

Hi gals, well the got me... Had that 'feeling' all day yesterday so I fully knew I was going to wake up with it today. Ah well.

So another ov=17, LP=9 cycle... At least it's 'regular'!!

I'm fine with AF, a bit disappointed the Clomid didn't seem to have any discernible impact on my cycle will give it a couple more months.

So - September! FX for bigger and better things for all of us!

Googly - Sorry to hear got you, I think I'm not too far from her getting me, started feeling cramping today on and off, I'm on cd25 so it should get here Sunday or Monday at the latest, another lost cycle but on the positive side I can start temping. Question for all you ladies, do all of you have tender breasts prior to arriving? I used to have that but haven't for the past year and a half...

Also have you all heard about Soy Isoflavones? It's supposed to work like clomid?

Babydust to everyone

 

[googly]

I have the wicked sore BBs from about half way through my LP, yes... it's actually got increasingly worse the last few cycles, not sure what I'm taking that has done that! (I thought tender BBs was down to progesterone, but I always test low on that, so )

Yeah have heard about soy, there's a couple of threads on it here - you should search for it... I think of a lot of girls have had good results on it, but also some negative experiences! So do loads of research before jumping in there. But yes, my understanding is that it's supposed to work like Clomid.

 

[Raven_Moon]

I never get sore boobs in my cycle, its odd, they also never seem to change size. E en with my chemical pregnancy where I had pregnancy symptoms, mainly nausea and mega tiredness, also at about 5dpo my amdomen ached like id been doing sit ups when i stretched, but no boon soreness or change if anything.

I swear ttc and pregnancy are so fraustrating as no two people have the same signs/experience, it makes for too much guess work.

Depending in how this cyce goes I'm tempted to look into soy as CD26 and negative opk thus morning...