Vitamin K Injection

I agree with the cord pulsating thing, no professional has mentioned this to me either, it's funny because we are supposed to make informed decisions...I wasn't even given an choice of where to give birth, I was told what hospital is would be and that was that...
 
Please remember that there are people on here that choose either to selectively vaccinate or to not vaccinate. We are respectful of people who choose to vaccinate, I don't think it's too much to ask for the reverse to be true.

Lozzy, it is extremely unlikely for Polio to ever make a comeback to this country as most cases were due to contaminated swimming pools and the chlorination of swimming pools stops that.

Polio is spread from person to person mostly by people not washing there hands after going to the toilet. If we stop vaccinating all it takes is one person to not wash there hands after going to the toilet to give it to 10+ people and they pass it to another 10. We could be back to pandemic preportions in 6 months if no one was vaccinated.
 
I agree with the cord pulsating thing, no professional has mentioned this to me either, it's funny because we are supposed to make informed decisions...I wasn't even given an choice of where to give birth, I was told what hospital is would be and that was that...

Then your MW was not doing her job properly.
xx
 
I agree with the cord pulsating thing, no professional has mentioned this to me either, it's funny because we are supposed to make informed decisions...I wasn't even given an choice of where to give birth, I was told what hospital is would be and that was that...

Then your MW was not doing her jon properly
xx

Clearly, there are also no antenatal classes anymore or tours of the delivery suite, I've got most of my information from my own research and through the NCT classes we have done
 
I would speak to her about your concerns and ask why you have no choice. If you wish the cord to be left pulsating then I would write it in your birth plan. The only time they may go against this is if the babies ro your life is at risk and even then tehy should ask
xx
 
I agree with the cord pulsating thing, no professional has mentioned this to me either, it's funny because we are supposed to make informed decisions...I wasn't even given an choice of where to give birth, I was told what hospital is would be and that was that...

Then your MW was not doing her jon properly
xx

Clearly, there are also no antenatal classes anymore or tours of the delivery suite, I've got most of my information from my own research and through the NCT classes we have done

They should be, again if you were not offerd then your midwife is not doing her job propperly.
 
It scares me to think what will start happening if people continue refusing what medical professionals advise us to do :wacko:

So called medical professionals aren't always right by a long shot.

The sooner people start to realise that the better. Like you said they are only advising and in a lot of cases their advice isn't what's best for us personally.

I think people should question things more rather than refusing first.
 
You can always question it. I question it and I still come to the same conclusion. Not as a trainee nurse either. I questioned it as a mother and my childs welfare was first and foremost I would never go with advise if I found it to ahev adverse affects
xx
 
I think as long as we remember that we might have strong opinions, but we all want the best for our children, these debates are fine. Plus, I agree it should be in here. I don't see how the Vitamin K debate, as it is given so soon after birth, is of the same relevance in the parenting sections.

Research can be highly informative, but also incredibly dangerous. The internet allows people a platform to mass produce and distribute tonnes of information. For every 1000 websites, there is probably one helpful, fully educated and PROPERLY researched document. The other 999 will be full of opinion and misguided, though well intentioned, 'facts'. These scare us all and don't help.

Plus, I don't feel I will be pumping my girl full of mercury - because the type given is associated with minimal reside and effects. If you really want to think conspiracy - why would the Government PAY to give our children these injections if they wern't relevant? It's all about cost-benefit analysis - they cost less to vaccinate than to treat for the illness. It isn't sinister. Genuinely, I feel I have to vaccinate my children because others are choosing not to, bringing back otherwise unheard of illness. But as for Vitamin K, she will be having it if all is well, as I believe strongly it is in her interest, and have done enough research to see the studies which linked it to leukaemia have failed again and again (as with MMR) to be replicated.

Like all of you - I feel this is the best decision for my child. It's all we can do.
 
to be honest for the amount of information that you can have about pregnancy and birth midwives do NOT have time to go through most of it. This is why you get pregnancy books and leaflets and go on websites etc.

They generally not saying it's the best way but do the most efficient thing. I.e. clamp and cut not leave it. HOWEVER many trusts are starting to leave the cord at least a couple of minutes before clamping and cutting as standard practise.

This is one of the reasons people pay for independant midwives. Don't forget we are LUCKY to have the nhs and all the free treatment we get, we are LUCKY to have midwives and not doctors telling us to lay flat on our back with our legs in stirrups.

So for me I don't think they should be telling us all this information. I'm happy for my midwife to do all the screening she needs, take all the blood and pee she needs, do all the scans that need to be done rather than use the time to talk to me about options i could research more thoroughly on my own. Don't forget that is the primary reason they are there to make sure everything is ok with mum and baby
 
I agree with you Bex, but the problem with this kinda thing on the forum is it brings out opinions not fact, kwim? Maybe it would help you more in your research to make an appointment with your MW or GP so they can give you fact, not just their opinion? Alot of people get emotional about this topic, so thats when fact/fiction gets a bit skewed x

It would be brilliant to find a MW or GP that had all the facts and answers but alot of these people were quite happy to vaccinate pregnant women with the swine flu vaccination which allegedly caused alot of miscarriages, which obviously isnt their fault as they are just doing what they are told and that's what worrys me!

Saying that, I dont doubt there are alot who have done their own research but were do the facts that they have researched come from?

I must sound overly paranoid ha ha I'm not, but I do believe there is somehow more than meets the eye to alot of things involving governments, big pharma, money, control and power but thats a whole different story!

I just question everything and it definately seems i'm not the only one as all you ladies have also studied this....it's just taking me abit longer to come to a decision.

As for the vitamin k which is my primary concern as I have to make my choice within 3-5 weeks, eek, I think I will go with the oral form and my own diet unless there is a problem. I'd love to be able to just say yes give him the injection and not have to worry about it but that wouldnt be the case for me, i'm going to worry either way (as we all do) and as you say, this is why emotions run high on the subject...I didnt quite expect to start all this though! Ha ha definately got more than I bargained for!

Abit OT but another thing thats come to my attention is when the cutting of the umbilical cord. Baby benefits from not having it cut until after the cord has stopped pulsing so why had I never heard of this before? I feel like they dont tell us anything! Its really quite sad:nope:

It must differ from area to area. I've always been given the pro's and con's of all immunisations and injections during pregnancy. Today at my antenatal class we were told that it's best to wait until the cord has stopped pulsating before cutting it .. it must differ where everyone is x
 
It scares me to think what will start happening if people continue refusing what medical professionals advise us to do :wacko:

So called medical professionals aren't always right by a long shot.

The sooner people start to realise that the better. Like you said they are only advising and in a lot of cases their advice isn't what's best for us personally.

I think people should question things more rather than refusing first.

So called medical professionals? They ARE medical professionals, they have studied and completed their course and have experience, they have been trained to save lives and look after people - if they had some hidden agenda then that would go against everything a medical professional does.
I will never ever believe anything otherwise.

All these consipiracy theories about the government/NHS/Polic are just ridiculous :lol:
 
It scares me to think what will start happening if people continue refusing what medical professionals advise us to do :wacko:

So called medical professionals aren't always right by a long shot.

The sooner people start to realise that the better. Like you said they are only advising and in a lot of cases their advice isn't what's best for us personally.

I think people should question things more rather than refusing first.

So called medical professionals? They ARE medical professionals, they have studied and completed their course and have experience, they have been trained to save lives and look after people - if they had some hidden agenda then that would go against everything a medical professional does.
I will never ever believe anything otherwise.

All these consipiracy theories about the government/NHS/Polic are just ridiculous :lol:

i agree 'so called' lol! they ARE medical professionals. They have studied for years.

What i don't understand is all these people that are scared of the goverment....... don't they think that if there was such a problem with things i.e. vaccinations NO ONE in power would use them. NO ONE in the government would be vaccinated because they 'know the truth'. no doctors or so called healthcare professionals would be vaccinated. half the bloomin country wouldn't be vaccinated. we would be rife with disease, hospitals would be full of the diseases we are preventing!
 
It scares me to think what will start happening if people continue refusing what medical professionals advise us to do :wacko:

So called medical professionals aren't always right by a long shot.

The sooner people start to realise that the better. Like you said they are only advising and in a lot of cases their advice isn't what's best for us personally.

I think people should question things more rather than refusing first.

So called medical professionals? They ARE medical professionals, they have studied and completed their course and have experience, they have been trained to save lives and look after people - if they had some hidden agenda then that would go against everything a medical professional does.
I will never ever believe anything otherwise.

All these consipiracy theories about the government/NHS/Polic are just ridiculous :lol:

I agree. I don't understand the nature of paranoia which comes in this country sometimes. Maybe being so lucky for so long as made us unable to appreciate the opportunities around us?

Although I don't always agree with my MW, I strongly believe at the end of the day she wants to see a healthy mum and a healthy baby - why on earth would she join the profession if she didn't? I chose not to have the swine flu vaccination and she supported me. She advised me to look at the evidence and decide for myself.
 
River has had all of her vaccinations including vitk but this baby wont he havijg the vitk injection as I still remember how river screamed when they did it. More so then any other injection.

I will prob go for the oral one.

I think that the routine vaccinations need to be done not just for your baby but for society as a whole. It's selfish to risk your child giving a younger/weaker child something that could kill them.


I'm usually don't agree with all the conspiracy stuff but doctors me and hv have to follow the line so even if they had a problem with something they couldn't say anything. A paramedics told my sil that there was no way he would get swine flu vaccination but was told by his superiors that he had to day he had.
 
To be clear, when i said it shouldn't be discussed in here I meant the wider vaccination debate, rather than the vit k debate.

I know that the majority of medical professionals are there to help people and are very well read etc. But they still base many judgements on their opinion. I was told by a medical professional that a home birth vbac was too risky and that I should be in hospital strapped to a monitor. I know he was only wanting me and the baby safe, but that's the same argument that many docs in the US are using to give women C-Sections for hardly any reason at all - because it's 'controllable'. Medical professionals do NOT all agree that vaccinations are to be given without question, there are a few that believe that the risks outweigh the benefits for many children.
 
There is certainly benefits and risks to each approach and I am still flumbling around on the fence in regards to my personal stance but here's my views so far.

First off, I do think this is an appropriate spot for this thread. Yes the vitamin K injection occurs after the birth but it is done just hours if not immediately following the birth so it's a decision that parents must make prenatally and many of us pregnant folks don't actually venture over to the parenting boards until after our little babes are born.

Secondly, the vitamin K injection works quite differently then other immunizations. Other immunizations trigger the immune system in attempts to create a relatively long lasting immunity to disease while vitamin K is used to supplements the babies already existent vitamin K supply to help the blood to clot and the protection is relatively short term.... until the baby begins producing their own vitamin K. {interesting but relatively useless fact, babies born vaginally produce vitamin K sooner, because they are more likely to come into contact with bacteria from their mother's anus :blush:... Who knew that would be a good thing?!?! Another reason to lower those c-section rates...) Anyways back to vitamin k, essentially we are giving the baby more of what it already has... plus the additives they use in the formulation of the injection....

And yes there are different "types" of mercury. To date there is no study thus far to indicate that the type they are using is harmful..... But that doesn't mean that in 20 years they won't discover or confirm that what we were giving our babies was actually causing cancer or MS or Autism or ADD or Early Onset Alzheimer or the list goes on and on and on and on..... (note: there were studies that PROVED that links to cancer and autism existed... but then those studies were examined to be "faulty" and the associations were discredited.... Who was actually right.... Who knows???)

Also..... Babies are born with less then 50% of an adults vitamin K concentration.... So as the scientific humans we are, we have decided to fix that.... But I can't help but think that maybe there is a reason babies are born with low concentrations in vitamin K following birth? Perhaps it's crucial for their development in some way or another????? Yes, the babies do get a little vitamin K from the placenta, and a little vitamin K from breastmilk, but even if the mother has an excellent diet and supplements with vitamin K herself... those babies levels have still been shown to be deficient in vitamin k... again maybe's it's suppose to be that way??? Nature doesn't f*ck up that often!

Now onto risk factors... Yes prematurity, hypoxia, birth trauma, c-section and breastfeeding increase the chances the baby will suffer from hemorrhagic disease of the newborn it's important to note that in over 50% of cases there are NO RISK FACTORS.... Now that is the scary aspect of it all that bothers me. Thank god it's relatively rare.

Every study I have looked at states different incidences.. Likely due to the fact that there was a mass movement to give all newborns supplemental vitamin K prior to conducting adequate studies on the incidence of these bleeding conditions.... But anyways, the risk is about 1/10000-15000 if no vitamin K is given and about 1/100,000 -250,000 if vitamin K is given. Regardless of the "exact" numbers it is quite clear that this vitamin K supplementation is highly effective at preventing VKBD. (not like the GBS thing.... when antibiotics are not given babies have a 1/1000 chance of getting it... when antibiotics are given babis have a 1/2000 chance of getting it.... but I won't go there now....) back to vitamin K.

VKBD is a VERY scary thing. I thankfully have never met a baby who has experienced this and I have only ever had a handful of mothers refuse the injection but I did work with a midwife who once had a client who had a baby who experienced this and the results were fatal as they are in up to 30% of cases... And if death does not occur brain damage is likely. The midwife was EXTREMELY shaken by the experience and I think her tension had rubbed off on me a bit.

A little on my thoughts of oral doses... They are good in that they are less invasive and do not cause pain... And they are protective against vitamin k deficiency bleeding in comparison to giving no vitamin k at all, but they are approximatley 4 times less effective then their vitamin K injection counterpart even when compliance is perfect and the baby receives ALL of the doses of the vitamin K. It's suggested that they get atleast 3 doses, but there was one study in Denmark which gives babies oral vitamin k weekly until 3 months of age. Also of interest, there are some countries in which oral vitamin K is not even offered! Canada is one of them. The vitamin K they use has not been "tested" orally and therefore the fomulation they used is suppose to be for injection only. Some midwives will give this vitamin K orally, but they are not suppose to as it is not licenced to be admisisterd orally.

Last but not least... yes I do believe that health care providers go into the profession to help people... But I also believe that they are just regular people... And there are generally two types of people... One group who accepts the norms of society and conforms to what everyone else does, those are the type of "easy" clients who do not question their doctors or midwives recommendations they are also the type of clinical practioners that do not question their "college guidelines", do little research outside the box and just follow mainstream practice until a big "movement" tells them to do otherwise... Then there are the other group of people who analyze everything critically. They don't take everything to be written in stone and they do not conform to societals norms unless doing so is their preferred route. Those health care providers in this group tend to know that there is no hard and fast rule as to what the best plan of care is and they realize that medicine is constantly changing.. What they do now may not be the right thing tomorrow and that acknowlege that clients have every right to question current procedures and decide for themselves how to procede... Just food for thought.....

Oh I know that and I know not all cases of the disease these children can contract can be life threatening to each individaul child. Some many have no really adverse affects whereas others can deteroate radpidly. As a trainee health care proffessional and a mother I have done resarch coming out of my ears. Especially as the matter invovles something so important, my son. I can assure you I am very confident from hours of reading that the benifits do out weigh the risks. Medical science is always changing. Have a read of the nursing journal etc and you will see this. If a patheint ever questions an immunisation I will tell them my findings of my research. I will never 'conform' to my college books. And you will find MOST health proffessionals are like this as we are all encouraged to do our own research in to very single bit of medicine we will be taught


I just hope that in years to come I don't see an outbreak that could have easily been prevented. Like I said some children may not be adversly affected by some diseases but som will. And no one knows how any individual child will react.

Are you will to take that risk? Because after reading and reading and reading i am not. From a mothers point of view the benfits outweigh the risks by far IMO
xx

Having spent the last several years as a midwifery student I too have spent alot of time researching this topic, not just using dr.google but from midwifery and obstetrical journals and in the end I still feel that there is certain merit in both perspectives (vitamin K vs no vitamin K). Quite honestly I tend to be in favour of the medication, because it does reduce the incidence DRAMATICALLY but I still am skeptical of it's assumed safety and because of that I completely respect any parent who chooses not to conform to this mass movement.

And I am glad to hear that you do keep up with the research, but I do not believe that "most" health care professionals do so. I've done several placements and worked with midwives, obstetricians, family physicians and nurses and unfortunately there are many that blindly conform to their hospital regulations despite research.... (off topic but just as an example: admission EFM strips. There has been alot of research on it, they show to increase intervention rates without improving outcomes and the Society of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (in canada) have advised not to perform them... yet at many hospitals in my province they are still done routinely because that is the hospital regulations and those who work there have chosen not to speak up...) It's just that there are many medical professionals that don't keep up with research and then there are some that do but then they don't have the guts to change their practice anyways :nope:


Then the other off topic cord cutting issue....
I tend to favour the delayed cord clamping method because it is the more natural approach and it just seems as though that is what is suppose to happen... But standards of practice regarding this issue is highly variable, at least in Canada. There has been good research to suggest it reduces the risk of infant anemia and there has been not so great research to suggest it increases the risk of newborn jaundice (there are many conflicting studies, some strongly support this statement and others prove absolutely no association... who to believe???:shrug:) Anyways, in my community it is the obs standard of practice to cut and clamp right away (in a teaching hospital!). Often even before they hand the baby to the mother (a non so ideal practice in my opinion :growlmad:), then I have met some midwives who do not clamp or cut until the cord stops pulsating. They have somewhere deemed this the most acceptable method and tend not to even discuss it with their clients unless the client brings it up. Then there are midwives who bring this subject up antenatally, engage in an informed choice conversation and then go with whatever the client decides... My point is different health care professionals act in different ways and they all do so for the babies best interest based on their own opinions of the research in addition to what they were "taught" to do.
 
I really resent the so called health proffesionals comment. I will go to Uni for 3 years of hard work. I think I would have earned the right to be given respect for that and not 'so called'

As for the vit K Aidan was given it without my consent. I only foudn this out a few months ago diu to a thread similar to this one. I was very upset as I hadn't researched it and I wasn't given the choice.
xx
 
I really resent the so called health proffesionals comment. I will go to Uni for 3 years of hard work. I think I would have earned the right to be given respect for that and not 'so called'


Are you attending Uni for the status in the end? If so, that's sad. :nope: I've now completed several 7 years for two degrees and consider myself no more above anyone else on this thread. Equality is key, not superiority.
 
I really resent the so called health proffesionals comment. I will go to Uni for 3 years of hard work. I think I would have earned the right to be given respect for that and not 'so called'


Are you attending Uni for the status in the end? If so, that's sad. :nope: I've now completed several 7 years for two degrees and consider myself no more above anyone else on this thread. Equality is key, not superiority.

How dare you. No I am attending Uni to go into a proffesion that I have wanted to do for years. My passion is children and I wan't to help improve their qaulity of life and make their stay in hospital a little bit less daunting whilst caring for their individual needs.

No I am not going for the status. But i resent being called 'so called' proffessioanlw hen we are trying our best to help people and we work hard to do that!!
 

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