Weird question, does anyone believe the creation story word for word?

[emyandpotato]

Not the usual GC topic, but anyhoo..

Does anyone believe the creation story as in Christianity/Judaism/Islam as it's written, word for word? Also, does anyone believe in the immaculate conception? This is by no means intended as a debate. Actually, I'm studying religion and trying to get my head around the belief that the events actually happened, and not as myth or interpretation, but that they happened exactly as stated. But brought up as an atheist and never even believing in Father Christmas I am finding it impossible.

If anyone does believe in these stories fundamentally could you just explain why you're absolutely set in the belief as opposed to believing it's an interpretation, and also how you rationalise it against the scientific beliefs of atheists? It would be SO helpful!

 

[NerdyMama]

I don't believe in this but there is a text book... I wish I could remember the name.... It is about intellectual design through creationism. It shows their studies of mitochondrial analysis and how it is so perfect that it simply couldn't have happened by chance and other theories. I haven't read the textbook myself but saw numerous documentaries about ID and this came up. I personally believe in ID to a point but also evolution lol it is one huge conversation me and hubby get into and can last for hours and we both agree haha

 

[emyandpotato]

I can understand people believing in ID through evolution as means, but it's the billions of people who believe we're all descended from Adam and Eve that I can't comprehend. I guess it doesn't really matter I just wish I could see that point of view!

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

Nope

 

[sue_88]

Nope

I believe in Science

 

[ktod]

I don't believe the creation story word for word but I can understand the Adam and Eve thing in a way. What I mean is I know humans today evolved but surely there was a first man and woman at some point so I would class them as Adam and Eve.

I have absolutely no scientific facts about the first humans (I don't even know if I'm using the right terminology) but that's just what I assumed happened! I would accept whatever science proved to be fact though, if they ever worked it out.

But also (and this is where I'm getting into dodgy territory cos I don't know anything about theology) isn't a lot of scripture just metaphors and parables and stuff. Do people actually have to believe it word for word?

 

[supertabby]

I don't believe in creationism but my stepmother (who's from Georgia, USA and moved to UK a few years ago) absolutely believes. Where she was raised most people believe in creationism and evolution isn't usually taught in schools, when she moved here she watched documentries on evolution and said she'd never seen that type of show.

She's now after a lot of convincing in agreement that fossils exist. But because the fossils are older than creation theory believes the world is, she thinks God put them there and faked how old they are. She can't say why though. I don't agree with her perspective but she's entitled to it and her faith gives her a lot of strength.

 

[emyandpotato]

I don't believe the creation story word for word but I can understand the Adam and Eve thing in a way. What I mean is I know humans today evolved but surely there was a first man and woman at some point so I would class them as Adam and Eve.

I have absolutely no scientific facts about the first humans (I don't even know if I'm using the right terminology) but that's just what I assumed happened! I would accept whatever science proved to be fact though, if they ever worked it out.

But also (and this is where I'm getting into dodgy territory cos I don't know anything about theology) isn't a lot of scripture just metaphors and parables and stuff. Do people actually have to believe it word for word?

There are loads of different views on this. Many churches and branches of Christianity (particular Biblical and Authoritarian denominations) believe that it is the word of God and believe it exactly as it's written. That's what I'm having trouble with hence wanting to talk to someone with these views as I don't know anyone in reality!

Many denominations, however, will tell you that certain elements are indeed myths or metaphorical interpretations, and will also tell you that the bible is the word of God written by man hence there are mistakes (as opposed to stricter denominations which will tell you it's the word of God and there are no flaws). Then from a historians point of view, the bible was made up officially by a church council when Christianity became so popular that a set of 'official' scriptures was necessary, and so a collection of appropriate existing accounts of Jesus's life was compiled and thus we have the New Testament. In turn, though, the accounts of Matthew et al are based on stories they were told themselves, and also on written accounts of Jesus, and also included things that were 'necessary' to the conversion of Jews. Then there's the Old Testament which is much older obviously but there's the same debate on it being the word of man versus the word of God.

And I won't even pretend to know enough about Islam to answer in regards to that!

 

[emyandpotato]

I don't believe in creationism but my stepmother (who's from Georgia, USA and moved to UK a few years ago) absolutely believes. Where she was raised most people believe in creationism and evolution isn't usually taught in schools, when she moved here she watched documentries on evolution and said she'd never seen that type of show.

She's now after a lot of convincing in agreement that fossils exist. But because the fossils are older than creation theory believes the world is, she thinks God put them there and faked how old they are. She can't say why though. I don't agree with her perspective but she's entitled to it and her faith gives her a lot of strength.

So she just point blank denies any scientific proof about evolution? This is really helpful, thanks! Do you know if she believes in the immaculate conception or in Adam and Eve causing original sin?

 

[NerdyMama]

You could always look up fundamental or orthodox churches in your area. Some people love to try to convert so you may have luck with that!

 

[supertabby]

I don't believe in creationism but my stepmother (who's from Georgia, USA and moved to UK a few years ago) absolutely believes. Where she was raised most people believe in creationism and evolution isn't usually taught in schools, when she moved here she watched documentries on evolution and said she'd never seen that type of show.

She's now after a lot of convincing in agreement that fossils exist. But because the fossils are older than creation theory believes the world is, she thinks God put them there and faked how old they are. She can't say why though. I don't agree with her perspective but she's entitled to it and her faith gives her a lot of strength.

So she just point blank denies any scientific proof about evolution? This is really helpful, thanks! Do you know if she believes in the immaculate conception or in Adam and Eve causing original sin?

Yes she believes in immaculate conception and Adam and Eve. I do think most aspects of Christianity can be separated - whilst Adam and Eve are fairly entwined with Creationism and you'd be hard pushed to believe one and not the other (as both go against evolution), I think it's quite probable for a person to believe in evolution and see Adam and Eve as metaphors - yet still believe in immaculate conception.

 

[binxyboo]

Check your local area. I know there us a creationist museum in Portsmouth.
https://www.genesisexpo.co.uk/

 

[emyandpotato]

I don't believe in creationism but my stepmother (who's from Georgia, USA and moved to UK a few years ago) absolutely believes. Where she was raised most people believe in creationism and evolution isn't usually taught in schools, when she moved here she watched documentries on evolution and said she'd never seen that type of show.

She's now after a lot of convincing in agreement that fossils exist. But because the fossils are older than creation theory believes the world is, she thinks God put them there and faked how old they are. She can't say why though. I don't agree with her perspective but she's entitled to it and her faith gives her a lot of strength.

So she just point blank denies any scientific proof about evolution? This is really helpful, thanks! Do you know if she believes in the immaculate conception or in Adam and Eve causing original sin?

Yes she believes in immaculate conception and Adam and Eve. I do think most aspects of Christianity can be separated - whilst Adam and Eve are fairly entwined with Creationism and you'd be hard pushed to believe one and not the other (as both go against evolution), I think it's quite probable for a person to believe in evolution and see Adam and Eve as metaphors - yet still believe in immaculate conception.

Yeah definitely, and I think the immaculate conception has a fair bit more importance for most, but I am still like whaaat?! How can you believe that?! But I guess if you're truly religious and can believe in miracles then that one isn't too far a cry.

 

[cherrylips100]

I don't believe in creationalism in the traditional sense as there are far too many obstacles in the way. Original scripts have been translated and rewritten thousands of times and could be interpreted in a number of ways. To me, all organised religion is a means of social control to get people to behave in ways that won't disrupt society: I.e Adam and Eve promote the family unit, which promotes stability. That is just my opinion though!

 

[emyandpotato]

I don't believe in creationalism in the traditional sense as there are far too many obstacles in the way. Original scripts have been translated and rewritten thousands of times and could be interpreted in a number of ways. To me, all organised religion is a means of social control to get people to behave in ways that won't disrupt society: I.e Adam and Eve promote the family unit, which promotes stability. That is just my opinion though!

I agree to an extent; many aspects of religion have come to part as they allow authoritarian control, even necessitate it etc etc. I'm not saying I'm religious though, I'm just studying it and trying to gain a different perspective IYSWIM?

 

[cherrylips100]

There was a programme on quite a while ago (think it was on bbc3) where a group of christians went on a journey meeting scientists amongst other things. It was really interesting, will try and find a link

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01n8ls6

 

[Eleanor ace]

I don't believe in immaculate conception completely, but I do believe in Mary's grace but that it was through concious choice (on her part) rather than pre-conception. I believe in free will and that we all have to try hard to follow the right path in life, avoiding the temptation to do wrong. For me the idea that Mary was "worthy" of carrying Jesus through her own choice to live a good life is very inspirational. It sets an example for me that I try hard to live by.

Creationism I see as more of an interpretation, a story emphasising God's omnipotence. I believe that God created all things, either directly (in the case of creating people, animals, landscapes etc) or indirectly (for example by giving people the intellect and opportunity to discover medicines). But I also believe in dinosaurs .

I "believe" in science, wholeheartedly. I also believe in miracles. For me religion and science are not mutually exclusive.

 

[emyandpotato]

Thank you Eleanor Ace that's really helpful! On the Mary part, sorry to be super annoying but can you expand a bit? I'm not 100% on what you mean!

 

[Eleanor ace]

Sure . Sorry if I'm repeating stuff that you know inside out but:
The immaculate conception dogma says that Mary was conceived without sin, that God kept her free of original sin in the womb, and that she then lived free of personal sin once born.

I personally believe that we are all born with original sin but that we are also all born good- we're like a toddler who has a tantrum, he's not "perfect" but he's not bad either, just human. This goes for Mary too. So I don't believe that she was born perfect but that she was born innocent (as we all are) and continued to be innocent through her own concious effort to live right.
I guess I believe more in the immaculate ante partum of Mary more than the immaculate conception .

Similarly I believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary (that Mary was a virgin before she conceived Jesus, during conception and after she gave birth), although I believe that the post-birth virginity is more metaphorical/theological than literal.

Does that make sense?? I don't want to waffle on lol

 

[supertabby]

The immaculate conception is not that far fetched (in relation to general belief in God - Richard Dawkins would not agree lol). There's no "proof" against it - other than we know biologically how babies are concived. It makes more sense to me that a one off miracle happened than evolution being wrong in the face of all the evidence.

I struggle to see how anyone can believe evolution is not real, the evidence is there, but I don't struggle with the idea of someone believing in a miracle.

I also don't believe science is the polar opposite to religion. I think it's perfectly possible to be a scientist znd faithful to religion - many people are. Darwin's is often quoted by aethiests as proof against God's existence - but Darwin was a Christian himself. I think many Christians in the UK today believe that some bible stories are metaphors but still have place and meaning, and that evolution is real but was God's intention (or at least life was started and allowed to follow it's own path, like how the bible says we were all given free will).

I know someone who claims as a scientist he knows God does not exist as there is no proof. I thought it was a silly thing for a scientist to say for a theory has to be proven or disproved. The existence of God is neither since while there is nobody who can prove evidentially that God exists, nobody can prove that he doesn't either. By that argument all scientists should be agnostic lol....!