Would you let a newborn cry it out?

[HanaK]

I personally wouldn't leave my newborn to cry but I know people who have and you know what? No adverse effects. I think everyone gets so caught up in parenting philosophy that they forget to be human; responding to your baby's needs is paramount, yes, but I don't think a slightly misinformed father and MIL are really going to have any adverse effects on this baby.

Whilst I do believe that the idea of a fourth trimester is helpful to parents of newborns, ultimately a lot of parents don't give it so much thought and inadvertently employ methods which sound shocking to those of us who do a lot of research. Will these people being up less balanced children? You know what, I highly doubt it.

I said I will not debate, but this tests me. You have zero evidence that it had no adverse effects and in fact, the research that is there does point to adverse effects. Saying stuff like that is misleading. Just because it doesn't immediately cripple the child in an obvious way doesn't mean it's not harmful.
I grew up with constant secondhand smoke for 18 straight years. They smoked inside the house with the windows closed, in the car with the windows up, in bed beside me at night, would speak directly into my face while smoking, thought it was funny to tease me about taking puffs, etc. I run marathons and ultramarathons now. Does that mean that since it has done me no obvious harm that it wasn't harmful? By your definition it does. See how your logic doesn't work?

No. I don't see how this equates to passive smoking or how you can compare the issue. Your link is tenuous and quite frankly, boring.

 

[Melisa1985]

You can not let a newborn cry it out!!! do NOT listen to them...Your baby can have abandonment issues when they grow up because they were never trained to have a safety net. You need to be their safety net when they are a newborn and that small. They are small and can not manipulate you. Even my doctor told me they can not be spoiled when they are that young always go to it and calm it down when crying, pick it up. If you let it cry than you are def. doing it harm. It is not time to train him/her yet to sooth himself, he is a newborn and very young for that, I would say maybe 7-8 months you can possibly start training a baby and let them cry it out a little bit. You leave them 2-3 minutes and than come and than 5 minutes and than go to them. But you can not leave any baby cry for 15-30 minutes and never attend to them, that's ridicolous. I know older people would say you are spoiling a baby, but my doctor said you can't spoil a newborn. Even my MIL was like you spoiled her after she was born a week later, she is gotta be kidding me the baby was just born and needs to be picked up. She is not educated enough to know any better and that you need to pick up a baby.

 

[special_kala]

I personally wouldn't leave my newborn to cry but I know people who have and you know what? No adverse effects. I think everyone gets so caught up in parenting philosophy that they forget to be human; responding to your baby's needs is paramount, yes, but I don't think a slightly misinformed father and MIL are really going to have any adverse effects on this baby.

Whilst I do believe that the idea of a fourth trimester is helpful to parents of newborns, ultimately a lot of parents don't give it so much thought and inadvertently employ methods which sound shocking to those of us who do a lot of research. Will these people being up less balanced children? You know what, I highly doubt it.

I said I will not debate, but this tests me. You have zero evidence that it had no adverse effects and in fact, the research that is there does point to adverse effects. Saying stuff like that is misleading. Just because it doesn't immediately cripple the child in an obvious way doesn't mean it's not harmful.
I grew up with constant secondhand smoke for 18 straight years. They smoked inside the house with the windows closed, in the car with the windows up, in bed beside me at night, would speak directly into my face while smoking, thought it was funny to tease me about taking puffs, etc. I run marathons and ultramarathons now. Does that mean that since it has done me no obvious harm that it wasn't harmful? By your definition it does. See how your logic doesn't work?

No. I don't see how this equates to passive smoking or how you can compare the issue. Your link is tenuous and quite frankly, boring.

A little rude there.

I have cried myself to sleep before, it hasnt has a big overall effect on my life but it really wasnt very nice and not something i would want to do again.

Is the fact that they must be distraught not enough for people not to do it?

 

[sue_88]

Saying "no adverse effects" to children that you know is completely anecdotal and holds no weight at all.

There is evidence out there that says leaving a baby to cry does affect and indeed damage brain development.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/apr/21/leaving-baby-to-cry-brain-development-damage

My HV actually gave me a report to the same effect also and it scared the living crap out of me to even leave my baby to cry for a few minutes.....but sometimes you have too. Long term CIO methods can harm a baby.

 

[HanaK]

Every parent has different beliefs. You cannot parent for other people. Sanctimony is not a parenting style, it is a personal choice. In my humble opinion, sanctimonious parenting is probably more detrimental than CIO.

 

[special_kala]

Every parent has different beliefs. You cannot parent for other people. Sanctimony is not a parenting style, it is a personal choice. In my humble opinion, sanctimonious parenting is probably more detrimental than CIO.

No you cant parent for others but you can try and provide guidance so that things are alot gentler on baby.

 

[HanaK]

Every parent has different beliefs. You cannot parent for other people. Sanctimony is not a parenting style, it is a personal choice. In my humble opinion, sanctimonious parenting is probably more detrimental than CIO.

No you cant parent for others but you can try and provide guidance so that things are alot gentler on baby.

There's a difference between advice though and pushing your views upon others, no? Citing vague newspaper studies in order to prove a particular parenting choice as wrong is basically propaganda. Definitely not gentle.

 

[staralfur]

Just to offer a different perspective...

I've never done CC or CIO with my LO. But I'm seriously struggling with the decision not to at this point. There is nothing gentle or calm about my 1.5 year old waking up every two hours because she has no idea how to self-soothe. Nothing terribly comforting about her being overtired all day, either.

I'm just not entirely convinced that the "wait it out" approach is without its own adverse effects since I feel like I'm seeing them in my child every day and I almost feel like I've let her down in some way by not encouraging her to sleep better.

I'm not trying to advocate sleep training, or anything, really... I'm just in a place where I'm seriously questioning whether the "they'll get there in their own time" mentality is really beneficial for everyone.

 

[special_kala]

Sleep training doesnt need to be CIO though.

I dont sleep train but when the time is right you can encourage different sleeping patterns. Willow fed to sleep until she was 14 months old once she stopped that we moved onto holding her hand then sitting next to the bed.

Just because i dont sleep train it doesnt mean there isnt a natural progression as they get older.

 

[sequeena]

Just to offer a different perspective...

I've never done CC or CIO with my LO. But I'm seriously struggling with the decision not to at this point. There is nothing gentle or calm about my 1.5 year old waking up every two hours because she has no idea how to self-soothe. Nothing terribly comforting about her being overtired all day, either.

I'm just not entirely convinced that the "wait it out" approach is without its own adverse affects since I feel like I'm seeing them in my child every day and I almost feel like I've let her down in some way by not encouraging her to sleep better.

I'm not trying to advocate sleep training, or anything, really... I'm just in a place where I'm seriously questioning whether the "they'll get there in their own time" mentality is really beneficial for everyone.

I'm right there with you. I cannot get my boy to sleep through. He managed 3 hours before he woke tonight.

 

[staralfur]

Just to offer a different perspective...

I've never done CC or CIO with my LO. But I'm seriously struggling with the decision not to at this point. There is nothing gentle or calm about my 1.5 year old waking up every two hours because she has no idea how to self-soothe. Nothing terribly comforting about her being overtired all day, either.

I'm just not entirely convinced that the "wait it out" approach is without its own adverse affects since I feel like I'm seeing them in my child every day and I almost feel like I've let her down in some way by not encouraging her to sleep better.

I'm not trying to advocate sleep training, or anything, really... I'm just in a place where I'm seriously questioning whether the "they'll get there in their own time" mentality is really beneficial for everyone.

I'm right there with you. I cannot get my boy to sleep through. He managed 3 hours before he woke tonight.

 

[HanaK]

Sleep training doesnt need to be CIO though.

I dont sleep train but when the time is right you can encourage different sleeping patterns. Willow fed to sleep until she was 14 months old once she stopped that we moved onto holding her hand then sitting next to the bed.

Just because i dont sleep train it doesnt mean there isnt a natural progression as they get older.

Exactly. It's what works for the family isn't it?

 

[special_kala]

Sleep training doesnt need to be CIO though.

I dont sleep train but when the time is right you can encourage different sleeping patterns. Willow fed to sleep until she was 14 months old once she stopped that we moved onto holding her hand then sitting next to the bed.

Just because i dont sleep train it doesnt mean there isnt a natural progression as they get older.

Exactly. It's what works for the family isn't it?

I have no doubt that if i did CIO with my children at 1 week it would work eventually but i think the journey is just as important as the end result.

 

[nevernormal]

Just remember ladies, what works for one family may not work for the next

Of course, it's great when we can help each other learn what the current research says, such as: Even if you're okay with CIO, don't do it before 6 months.
It's great when we can educate each other on other options besides CIO!

Personally, I feel like a subpar mom and wife on days that follow a rough night of sleep, especially if it's been multiple nights in a row. On days when he just won't nap, he's overtired, I haven't gotten anything done, and DH has worked 12+ hrs and I feel bad because he's coming home to a wrecked house and probably no dinner. At this point (my LO is 3.5 months) I do try to gently encourage self settling (as in, I just give him the chance to do it), but I don't make a big deal of it if it doesn't work. I just pick him up and start again tomorrow. In fact, I'm wearing him for a nap right now. However, I can definitely see myself using some other techniques to teach him to self settle for naps as that's where he has the hardest time. Thankfully he's been a great sleeper overall, but for ME, personally, I think I could function significantly better as a wife and mother if his daytime sleep was better, and if his nighttime sleep was more consistent. We have to remember that the parent-child relationship involves more than JUST the baby. Our needs are important too and there does come a time when we can start adjusting how we do things to account for that.

That said (about my LO's sleep), I do try to keep in mind that sleep training is really only about self settling. He may still need a feed in the middle of the night for a long time, even if he self settles from it afterward. So while I may teach him to self settle, that doesn't guarantee me that I I'll get a full night's sleep until HE is ready to drop that feed, and that's okay! Like I said thankfully nights are USUALLY okay, but I do think I'd be a better wife & mom if I could just have a break some days in the form of a napping baby (for more than 20 minutes!).

 

[pinklightbulb]

It was either let my almost 4 month old CIO in the end, or I was going to flip and walk out and never come back, or worse, one day. I got so close to shaking my youngest son, that I *am* pro-CIO in some cases, like that one. I'd rather take the risk of *maybe* affecting my kid psychologically later in life (and there is no proof CIO harms either way) than end up with a dead one, because in a moment of sleep-induced insanity, I did something irreversible. It happens. I am a good mother. But in a moment of pure desperation, I put hands on my youngest son to shake him after two days and nights of no sleep at all. Thank God I realised what I was doing, and just let him CIO before I went through with it. That's all I can say. I walked away, and let him CIO, and who knows what I would have done otherwise. I dread to think about it. CIO isn't always evil. Like aliss, I made a horrible mistake, much worse than hers of leaving her newborn to cry, and if I hadn't left Liam to CIO when I did, I don't want to think about what a different result that moment could have had.

 

[mom2b2013]

Good news!!! I showed OH the 4th trimester stuff and he is on the same page as me now I also told him that I posted on a parenting board about it and there were pages & pages of responses all saying no to letting a newborn CIO. When he told MIL she quickly changed her tune and said she didn't let her kids CIO until they were 6mths. I think she realized she was wrong and didn't want to admit it. She lives 3 hrs away so fortunately we wont have to deal with this too often.

This topic has definitely brought up some interesting points. I agree that if the mother is at breaking point then of course letting baby CIO is the safest thing to do. In terms of psychological damage, I think both my sister & I were probably left to CIO as our parents were not very attentive at all. As a result we both exhibit traits of insecure attachment especially from what I remember. I was extremely anxious and shy and scared to ask for help as a child. I wonder if that's why both my sister and I are extreme people pleasers and are not great at getting our own needs met. I doubt that occasionally letting baby CIO would cause that but I don't want to take any chances.

One of the reasons I love this site is because there is so much great advice even with all the differing opinions.

 

[aliss]

I forget things about my 1st after only 3 years, I'm not surprised to hear changing stories from 25-35 years ago. Babies sttn at 1 week, never cried, eating proper steak dinners by 3 months old blah blah blah blah (roads paved with gold right?). Walking at 6 months and talking sentences by 12 months!

A bit of an exaggeration but you know what I mean

 

[MommyJogger]

I personally wouldn't leave my newborn to cry but I know people who have and you know what? No adverse effects. I think everyone gets so caught up in parenting philosophy that they forget to be human; responding to your baby's needs is paramount, yes, but I don't think a slightly misinformed father and MIL are really going to have any adverse effects on this baby.

Whilst I do believe that the idea of a fourth trimester is helpful to parents of newborns, ultimately a lot of parents don't give it so much thought and inadvertently employ methods which sound shocking to those of us who do a lot of research. Will these people being up less balanced children? You know what, I highly doubt it.

I said I will not debate, but this tests me. You have zero evidence that it had no adverse effects and in fact, the research that is there does point to adverse effects. Saying stuff like that is misleading. Just because it doesn't immediately cripple the child in an obvious way doesn't mean it's not harmful.
I grew up with constant secondhand smoke for 18 straight years. They smoked inside the house with the windows closed, in the car with the windows up, in bed beside me at night, would speak directly into my face while smoking, thought it was funny to tease me about taking puffs, etc. I run marathons and ultramarathons now. Does that mean that since it has done me no obvious harm that it wasn't harmful? By your definition it does. See how your logic doesn't work?

No. I don't see how this equates to passive smoking or how you can compare the issue. Your link is tenuous and quite frankly, boring.

Yup, because my post was equating CIO to secondhand smoke. Exactly.
My post was to point out that just because you don't observe an immediate detrimental effect of a practice doesn't mean that it's not there.
No one looking at me would say "that girls suffers from secondhand smoke damage". But I do.
You're looking at your friends' babies saying "that baby suffers no damage from cio". Chances are, they probably do.

Eta: And isn't baby being sad, lonely, or scared bad enough of an effect?
Eta again: Sorry, just saw the other post already saying my first eta.

 

[Magsy]

While I am glad to hear that the newborn is not being left to cry, I am not sure I understand the opinions stating that anything has been proven when it comes to sleep training. There have been many studies done, but most studies cited are based on unproven theories.

While I see what MommyJogger is trying to say concerning the unseen effects of crying on babies, I do not think it can be compared to second hand smoke simply because we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that smoke is harmful. There is no such consensus when it comes to sleep training.

 

[MommyJogger]

While I am glad to hear that the newborn is not being left to cry, I am not sure I understand the opinions stating that anything has been proven when it comes to sleep training. There have been many studies done, but most studies cited are based on unproven theories.

While I see what MommyJogger is trying to say concerning the unseen effects of crying on babies, I do not think it can be compared to second hand smoke simply because we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that smoke is harmful. There is no such consensus when it comes to sleep training.

There have actually been precious few studies done on sleep training and for me, that's where a large part of the problem lies. However, the research that is there doesn't support extinction sleep training as a safe or effective method. It's been shown to reduce stress signaling and has been shown to be statistically ineffective by 6mo after training has taken place. There is a scientific consensus on the harm of high levels of stress on developing brains. Sleep training causes infants to stop signalling their stress, even though they still feel it, which disrupts the ability of the adult caregiver to sooth such stress. While I'm not going to argue that cio will cause a baby to become a serial killer or a moron, it's generally understood that any straying from the conditions in which our bodies evolved to perform best under will result in disimproved outcomes. And cio/cc/ferberizing/etc is a huge leap from what humans evolved to expect from caregivers.
https://evolutionaryparenting.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-crying-it-out/