Would you let finances determine family size?

[special_kala]

If you cant rent/food then yes obviously you need to take that into consideration but to a certain extent no i wouldnt let it stop me having more children.

Its about compromises and sacrifices, i think when im old and grey id look back and regret not having the other kids i could have rather then looking back and regretting the holidays, meals out or clothes i missed out on by having more children.

I would rather give my kids another sibling then make sure they are kitted out in all next clothes or go on expensive holidays.

but obviously everyone is different and wants different things in life.

 

[hopeandpray]

I wouldn't have a child if I couldn't afford it. However I would consider lowing my standard of living to be able to have more children. The way it is where I live, the benefits are so high that it seems that if you are middle income you're likely to have the least children. High income can afford as many as they like and people with no/low incomes often have everything paid for them. To me it's wrong to know that you won't have the money to have a child and then have one and expect the state to support you. When people without jobs plan a pregnancy I think it's incredibly selfish.

 

[louandivy]

If you cant rent/food then yes obviously you need to take that into consideration but to a certain extent no i wouldnt let it stop me having more children.

Its about compromises and sacrifices, i think when im old and grey id look back and regret not having the other kids i could have rather then looking back and regretting the holidays, meals out or clothes i missed out on by having more children.

I would rather give my kids another sibling then make sure they are kitted out in all next clothes or go on expensive holidays.

but obviously everyone is different and wants different things in life.

Absolutely agree with this. I love having 3 sisters so so much, no holidays or presents could replace any of them! Sometimes I feel so bad for not being broody yet, as I can't imagine growing up as an only child.

 

[ahcigar1]

Yes I do believe that finances should deffinitely take a roll in the decision of having a child or another child. Also I think that how you want that child to be raised should also take a role in the decision. For hubby and I we would love to have a second child, BUT, we also know that having a second child would not allow us to offer all that we want to the one we have now. Such as private schooling, afford to do sports and activities, etc. But if we were fine putting our children through public school system then we would deffinitely be able to afford a second.

Also I am a VERY firm believer in that if you are on any form of welfare, food stamps, WIC, etc. then you should NOT be adding kids into the mix. That is something that aggravates me to no end and quite frankly pisses me off. When I see someone in the checkout food counter with 2 kids in tow already pregnant with a third and having to use food stamps for your food. That right their tells me that you are irrisponsible.

 

[special_kala]

Yes I do believe that finances should deffinitely take a roll in the decision of having a child or another child. Also I think that how you want that child to be raised should also take a role in the decision. For hubby and I we would love to have a second child, BUT, we also know that having a second child would not allow us to offer all that we want to the one we have now. Such as private schooling, afford to do sports and activities, etc. But if we were fine putting our children through public school system then we would deffinitely be able to afford a second.

Also I am a VERY firm believer in that if you are on any form of welfare, food stamps, WIC, etc. then you should NOT be adding kids into the mix. That is something that aggravates me to no end and quite frankly pisses me off. When I see someone in the checkout food counter with 2 kids in tow already pregnant with a third and having to use food stamps for your food. That right their tells me that you are irrisponsible.

To be fair peoples circumstances do change. OH's leave, force the woman to leave, they die which could leave a woman struggling to manage on her own.

 

[Sarahkka]

Yes I do believe that finances should deffinitely take a roll in the decision of having a child or another child. Also I think that how you want that child to be raised should also take a role in the decision. For hubby and I we would love to have a second child, BUT, we also know that having a second child would not allow us to offer all that we want to the one we have now. Such as private schooling, afford to do sports and activities, etc. But if we were fine putting our children through public school system then we would deffinitely be able to afford a second.

Also I am a VERY firm believer in that if you are on any form of welfare, food stamps, WIC, etc. then you should NOT be adding kids into the mix. That is something that aggravates me to no end and quite frankly pisses me off. When I see someone in the checkout food counter with 2 kids in tow already pregnant with a third and having to use food stamps for your food. That right their tells me that you are irrisponsible.

While I understand your sentiment, I think judging some stranger in a grocery line is pretty harsh. You don't know how that person got there, and remember, ANY of us could be that woman given a few turns of bad luck.

 

[Natsku]

Yes I do believe that finances should deffinitely take a roll in the decision of having a child or another child. Also I think that how you want that child to be raised should also take a role in the decision. For hubby and I we would love to have a second child, BUT, we also know that having a second child would not allow us to offer all that we want to the one we have now. Such as private schooling, afford to do sports and activities, etc. But if we were fine putting our children through public school system then we would deffinitely be able to afford a second.

Also I am a VERY firm believer in that if you are on any form of welfare, food stamps, WIC, etc. then you should NOT be adding kids into the mix. That is something that aggravates me to no end and quite frankly pisses me off. When I see someone in the checkout food counter with 2 kids in tow already pregnant with a third and having to use food stamps for your food. That right their tells me that you are irrisponsible.

While I understand your sentiment, I think judging some stranger in a grocery line is pretty harsh. You don't know how that person got there, and remember, ANY of us could be that woman given a few turns of bad luck.

Thats true. I've had to go on welfare since I split with FOB as my income alone just isn't enough for me and Maria to live on.

 

[robinator]

Yes I do believe that finances should deffinitely take a roll in the decision of having a child or another child. Also I think that how you want that child to be raised should also take a role in the decision. For hubby and I we would love to have a second child, BUT, we also know that having a second child would not allow us to offer all that we want to the one we have now. Such as private schooling, afford to do sports and activities, etc. But if we were fine putting our children through public school system then we would deffinitely be able to afford a second.

Also I am a VERY firm believer in that if you are on any form of welfare, food stamps, WIC, etc. then you should NOT be adding kids into the mix. That is something that aggravates me to no end and quite frankly pisses me off. When I see someone in the checkout food counter with 2 kids in tow already pregnant with a third and having to use food stamps for your food. That right their tells me that you are irrisponsible.

While I understand your sentiment, I think judging some stranger in a grocery line is pretty harsh. You don't know how that person got there, and remember, ANY of us could be that woman given a few turns of bad luck.

Thats true. I've had to go on welfare since I split with FOB as my income alone just isn't enough for me and Maria to live on.

Yes, I'll agree that we don't know everyone's situation.

However, I have a hard time believing that ALL women in this situation just happened to be left by their OH's and are now in this predicament. I'm sure a lot are irresponsible and make poor choices. We all are/do at some point. These women aren't exempt!

I don't think that when we see a mom with x amount of kids and pregnant with another and using food stamps, that our first thought is, "oh, OH must have left her, poor dear".

 

[Natsku]

Definitely some women are just playing the system but I don't think our first thought needs to be either "welfare grabbing bad mama" or "poor woman, abandoned by FOB" - our first thought should be "I don't know that family's situation so I will not judge them"

 

[ahcigar1]

In regards to my comment I used that scenario as an example but in several of my past jobs I have seen WAY too many times of it being just my thought, IRRISPONSIBLE! And not just down in luck. Oh and also at the same time of being of food stamps using an iphone and driving an escalade. Tell me how that is in any shape or form responsible. It is called being lazy and abusing the system and finding ways to seap more money from the hard working tax payers.

 

[Sarahkka]

In regards to my comment I used that scenario as an example but in several of my past jobs I have seen WAY too many times of it being just my thought, IRRISPONSIBLE! And not just down in luck. Oh and also at the same time of being of food stamps using an iphone and driving an escalade. Tell me how that is in any shape or form responsible. It is called being lazy and abusing the system and finding ways to seap more money from the hard working tax payers.

I'm not sure what your past job was, but I do think it is easy to take the judgement too far. Yes, some people are bad apples and abuse the system, but the vast majority have payed into it all of their working lives and are trying to keep body and soul together while they look for work. Given what I have been reading lately about the terrible employment scenario in the US right now, I can think of about a dozen reasons someone might be driving a fancy car and still using food stamps.
A hell of a lot of hardworking Americans have lost their shirts in the last few years. The economy is struggling all over the world. Personally, I would rather start with compassion, not judgement. I don't begrudge anyone my tax dollars to get back on their feet - oh, expect maybe the shockingly incompetent, irresponsible, and totally overpaid jackasses from Wall Street who crashed the economy and walked away with billions in bonuses, after public funds were used to rescue their firms and try to save the economy from completely tanking. Those guys? I judge! But not some random pregnant woman with a gaggle of kids.
Maybe it's all perspective, but I have my own opinion on who the real criminals are when it comes to exploiting tax dollars.

 

[robinator]

In regards to my comment I used that scenario as an example but in several of my past jobs I have seen WAY too many times of it being just my thought, IRRISPONSIBLE! And not just down in luck. Oh and also at the same time of being of food stamps using an iphone and driving an escalade. Tell me how that is in any shape or form responsible. It is called being lazy and abusing the system and finding ways to seap more money from the hard working tax payers.

I'm not sure what your past job was, but I do think it is easy to take the judgement too far. Yes, some people are bad apples and abuse the system, but the vast majority have payed into it all of their working lives and are trying to keep body and soul together while they look for work. Given what I have been reading lately about the terrible employment scenario in the US right now, I can think of about a dozen reasons someone might be driving a fancy car and still using food stamps.A hell of a lot of hardworking Americans have lost their shirts in the last few years. The economy is struggling all over the world. Personally, I would rather start with compassion, not judgement. I don't begrudge anyone my tax dollars to get back on their feet - oh, expect maybe the shockingly incompetent, irresponsible, and totally overpaid jackasses from Wall Street who crashed the economy and walked away with billions in bonuses, after public funds were used to rescue their firms and try to save the economy from completely tanking. Those guys? I judge! But not some random pregnant woman with a gaggle of kids.
Maybe it's all perspective, but I have my own opinion on who the real criminals are when it comes to exploiting tax dollars.

The issue I have with the bolded comment, though, is that the vast majority of Americans lease their cars. So it's not like they outright own the vehicle and are "stuck" driving it - they are paying hundreds of dollars a month to keep that vehicle. There is nothing wrong with driving a used car if finances are really that dire, but no one wants a beater if others are driving nice cars. But people won't let go of vanity, even if it means having more money available for things that really matter. In my state, a family of four can have a monthly income of nearly $3,900 and still qualify for food stamps. That's not a lot of money, so if they are still driving a fancy car, I would question their judgement.

I realize it was just one example that you used, so I'm not trying to nitpick and disregard the rest of your post. That just jumped out at me, is all.

For the record, I have never owned/leased a new car!

 

[JASMAK]

Its not that easy to get out of a lease, actually. If they still need a vehicle, it may be cheaper to keep leasing it. If its a secured loan, even in bankruptcy, you have to keep paying or they take it away...then what do these people drive. I see all sorts in my work too, but I have been poor, very poor as a child, and had nasty ignorant comments from those wh clearly have never been there and think they know exactly what we 'should' be doing. Sad that society thinks you should be wearing dirty rags, shoes with holes, and no have any means of transportation (what if they borrowed the escalade) or pretty nails (birthday gift) to deserve help. Basically, if you think people are getting away with fraud, report them. Don paint everyone with the same brush. I am very thankful that my husband and I have great jobs, a house, and cars...but I will never pretend to know what others are going through, have been through, or what they should be doing.

 

[Sarahkka]

While we are maybe getting slightly off topic here, Jasmak just made several of the points that I was about to.
In that snapshot of time in which you see the person use food stamps and then drive away in the car, you do not know their circumstances, so it is rather foolish and, quite frankly, mean-spirited, to condemn them as irresponsible. Maybe it isn't their car. Maybe it is their only means of transportation until it gets repossessed at the end of the month. Maybe it is their only option until their lease runs out.
There are so many possible explanations - why immediately assume the worst? That's such a negative way to live. And man, there are no shortage of things to get genuinely worked up about (see my point about corporate crooks above), so why waste your energy condemning some random stranger that you have just made massive assumptions about?

 

[robinator]

Seems like you're wasting energy condemning me, making a massive assumption that I'm super-judgmental simply because I don't see things the same way you do

Whose to say I'm wrong and you're right? Or I'm right and you're wrong? We're simply looking at scenarios and discussing. Or that's what I thought this was about, anyway.

 

[Sarahkka]

Nope, not condemning you at all - I am discussing the scenario just as you are. I intended "you" as in the second person, not as in you personally. Apologies if it came across as such.
And yes, you are absolutely right - the scenario could be just as irresponsible as was originally suggested. I am just trying to make the point that there could be so many different reasons for the described scenario, why choose to immediately assume the worst about people? Some might call my perspective on that naive (ie immediately assuming that there must be some reasonable explanation for food stamps and a fancy car), so it does go both ways.
I just choose to give people the benefit of the doubt.

 

[JASMAK]

Seems like you're wasting energy condemning me, making a massive assumption that I'm super-judgmental simply because I don't see things the same way you do

Whose to say I'm wrong and you're right? Or I'm right and you're wrong? We're simply looking at scenarios and discussing. Or that's what I thought this was about, anyway.

Are you saying what you said wasn't super judgemental? Why judge them at all? Why look at someone and wonder why they need food stamps, or drive a certain car? Why not see them as just people first?

 

[meli1981]

if people cant afford to lease and are spending their money on a car instead of food than yes it is irresponsible. we were poor when i was a child, we never owned a car, we took the bus. why cant these people do the same?

 

[Sarahkka]

if people cant afford to lease and are spending their money on a car instead of food than yes it is irresponsible. we were poor when i was a child, we never owned a car, we took the bus. why cant these people do the same?

To play devil's advocate, what if this scenario were in a rural setting - some place where public transit is sparse? I've lived in many places where it would be very hard to rely on public transit to get to my work place. If there is public assistance for food, but none for meeting the need of transportation (and it is a legitimate need in some cases), then you could easily get the described scenario in which someone is trying their best to provide for their family - as in, they cannot reach their place of work without personal transportation, but they aren't making enough to cover both groceries and transportation. I don't think the "convenience" of owning a car is enough to let most people choose that over food. I think the car can be a means to get to work. And for some jobs, having your own vehicle is a necessity.

 

[meli1981]

I dont think its a necessity at all, you can walk, take the bus or taxi (yes i know they are expensive!). I think if you live in the country and cant afford a car than you should move to a city where it is easier and cheaper to get around town. there are always ways of reducing your monthly or yearly expensives. You dont need the internet or cable or a cell phone or even a car for that matter. My mom was a single mom and took care of three children with none of those things. It is a different time these days but if you cant afford food or clothes for your children than these are a luxury.