7th Natural cycle IVF(w/o meds) and finally BFP!

[MoBaby]

Are you bit going to be able to transfer? If not im sorry

The fragmentation test is a waste I would say. Dh seems to have good sperm so usually good sperm don't need further testing.

Also karotyping probably won't help.. It will only tell you if all your chromosomes are normal or not. What you should consider is genetic testing embryos instead of you and dh as genetic testing the embryos is what is going to give you a higher chance. Clinics only usually karotype if say dh has low/no speem or a reason. You can do genetic screening for things like fragile x, cystic fibrosis etc which will tell you and dh if you carry anything. Then you can know your chances if you both have something come up which is probably unlikely. Dq match I briefly looked up and I don't think for you guys it's an issue because your eggs fertilize with dh sperm and start dividing.

Here's waft I would do in your shoes

Full stim ivf
Icsi all eggs although dh has good sperm
Ask about endometrial scratch biopsy cycle before transfer
Genetic test embryos
Transfer normal embryos in either frozen cycle or same cycle

This will give you and dh your best chances at successful ivf.

Hope my opinion doesn't offend you. I've just done this so many times I've learned a lot and researched a lot with what works and doesn't etc.

 

[dovkav123]

Mobaby,
I thank you so much for your advice. No ET for us
We are interested in stimulated IVF and now our job is to pick the best clinic In Europe or USA. We should rest and recharge for a couple of months. Spring time, sunshine, vitamins will give us emtional strenth.
We do need to test embryo for chromosomes I think it's called PGD.
Endometrium scratch is a good idea too.
We don't have any genetic deseases in the family, maybe genetic testing would be a waste.

Briss, how are you?
I was looking for a fertility clinic in USA and I found this info:
"Some fertility centers don't allow women to try IVF with their own eggs if their level of follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) is over 10. FSH, produced by the pituitary gland, causes eggs to mature; a high level of it, measured on the third day after menstruation begins, may indicate that few eggs are left in the ovaries.

But physicians at University Fertility Consultants routinely take patients whose FSH is up to 15. In a recent study of 350 women over age 35, they found that the clinical pregnancy rate for women with FSH levels of 10 to 15 was about 33% -- below the 42% pregnancy rate when a patient's FSH is under 7, but still pretty good. "My overall success rates are lower because about 25% of the women in my caseload have high FSH levels," says the center's director, Kenneth Burry, M.D. "But I don't feel comfortable referring patients for egg donation when they have a reasonable chance of success using their own.""

 

[Briss]

We had a follow up appointment with our urologist and the good news is that our karyotype testing came back fine, no genetic issues, all chromosomes are in place - what a relief! I was so worried.

based on Dh's test results and particularly lower testosterone, the doc suggested the following treatment:

(i) increasing the count: FSH. There are three possible options for taking FSH: 1. tamoxifen, 20 mg/day for 30 days, which is what DH was prescribed; 2. some other anti-estrogen, forgot the name but basically it's only for overweight men; 3. Clomid, but the doc said this is too aggressive and may increase the testosterone too much and shut the system off completely;

(ii) improving the quality/morphology: antioxidants i.e. proxeed.

The doc was very clear that the above treatment may increase his count by 30-40% but it will not necessarily lead to pregnancy. We need to check DH's blood in 6 weeks to check that testosterone and FSH are rising and if everything is OK we will repeat SA in 3 months and then consider another IVF. Our urologist suggested stim IVF to improve the odds and did not recommend natural IVF. When I tried to explain that natural worked better for us because of my high FSH (at least we had a chemical pregnancy while with stim cycle we did not have any fertilasation), he kind of hinted that our clinic may not have been the best place for a stim IVF.

DH started the treatment last night but 3 months seems like ages.

 

[dovkav123]

Briss,
You are doing everything right, you are doing everything super!
Infertility is treatable!
You are going forward step by step. You'll need a little bit more patients.
Genetic tests came back normal. Congrats!
You have lots of options for your DH treatment. Start with one meds and see how he improves.
Is the proxeed a prescription med?
I started a new thread, if you wish, please read


https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/p...103461-heavy-metal-poisoning-infertility.html

My hubby has silver teeth fillings and I am afraid of mercury vapors leaking to his brain and body. I have never talked about it with my RE.
I found very interesting info about heavy metals.
We live in the old home, the water pipes I am sure has copper or lead. WE do filter our water. Old paint has lead also.
We are doing lead, mercury and cadmium tests on Monday.

Karyotype test will be next. I have some childless relatives in my family. I need to know. The prices here are more reasonable than in US.

I hope you'll enjoy a wonderful time with your family this weekend!

 

[dovkav123]

Stimulated IVF in Germany is out for me. You have to pick the best eggs and others freeze. So 2 eggs fertilise and look great, but on the day 5th they arrest, and you have nothing left.
My clinic can never tell if my egg is the best. Only during ICSI RE can tell about it cos RE removes covering from the egg. During IVF you shouldn't remove the cover cos sperm will not find the way!(interesting)
In Germany there are strict laws about the German Embryo Protection Act of 1990 forbids the selection of embryos. This means that all human eggs being produced in the course of one IVF-cycle may only be fertilized for a later transfer back to the mother's uterus. Therefore the doctors have to select the 'best' eggs already on the day of fertilization when the male and female nuclei have not melted to one, yet. Should there be more than 3 eggs, they can be frozen (cryopreservation) and used for another, later attempt. However it's very hard to decide on the eggs with the best chances at such an early state. In Austria or the Chech Republic (for example) the legal situation is much better. There all eggs can be fertilized and cultivated until blastocyst stadium (5th day after fertilization). Only then the decision for the 'best' embryo has to be made. Should there be more than three, the others still can be cryopreserved.
I don't like this law. It doesn't give me high success chances.

 

[dovkav123]

please read this info about men and women fertility and Vit D

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22275473

 

[MoBaby]

The laws seem really strict over there! But I dont think you should take stimulated IVF off the table. Have you had a hsg to make sure tubes are open? i see in your signature re suspects tubes blocked from scarring but is this a fact? if not then maybe you should have a hsg to see if they are. if not then maybe you could try iui with mild stims or clomid since dh has good sperm this may give you good chances? You probably have but I just did not see it. What other options are you considering?

 

[dovkav123]

I'd like to try my IVF in USA. That's were I live. Technology seems to be more updated there and the statistics are higher too.

I have never checked my tubes. It does drive me crazy!
We did hysteroscopy in June.

My first RE told me to do Lap and she was suprised that I came back to her with a request to check my tubes. Well, she agreed to do it with a grumpy face. She beleaved that if my tubes were clear or would clear up, my tubes from appendix or endo could be damaged, scarred and only lap could clean all up.
So we didn't check my tubes cos RE couldn't get into my cervix, she ruined 3 catheters and she stated this was her first bad experience during this procedure. I never came back to her....

Now I am starting to think, if we havn't found a healthy embryo yet, maybe my tubes are fine, just fertilised egg doesn't grow or implant further. If this is correct, we could try naturally with IUI.

Maybe I should shoot for my tube check up after my AF.

Mobaby,
your big bean looks so cool on this photo!

 

[MoBaby]

Yes in US there are hardly any restrictions on IVF. We have guidelines on embry transfer but no rules so basically whatever the RE thinks goes. The only problem here is the IVF cost is so expensive. And natural IVF isnt usually done. What part of US are you from?

I definitely think you need to check your tubes because there are conditions that can affect IVF success from your tubes like if there is fluid on them.

I had a lap and not too bad. They can check your tubes then and if there is scarring around them causing them to be blocked can potentially remove it. My RE did a dye test during my lap and saw my 1 tube is open (unfortunately my right tube had to be removed because of a congenital abnormality).

my profile pic is the last ultrasound we had about a month ago. it was the best pic we got as baby isnt very cooperative about getting pic taken. but I love the babys little face and cant wait to meet him/her

 

[dovkav123]

I am from san francisco bay area. Colorado and New york clinics are OK. I am willing to travel. IN Los angeles area they do a natural IVF and it is a research project, and it cost 7000.
You went through soo much pain during IVF treatment. Little angels will be missed...
Why did you succeed with a 3rd try?
Did you finaly find your healthy embryo?

 

[MoBaby]

we actually did 6 tries... 3 fully stimulated IVF cycles. The first 2 resulted in great embryos but only 2 at day 5 and there were some but they were not able to be frozen due to poor quality. Our 3rd fully stimulated cycle we were lucky and got 6 blasts. We froze 4. The first MC was tested at a speciality lab where they had to mail the material off...Nothing was found. Perfect little girl. The second miscarriage we sent it to the local lab and nothing was found. Perfect little girl. Two cycles were chemical pregnancies where I had a positive HPT but the beta was way to low and AF came shortly after expected. Our last FET was transfer of two embryos, one which had been frozen twice! But they both thawed perfectly and we must have found the perfect embryo. The way it was explained to me that the bad sperm makes bad embryos and there is no way to tell without doing the genetic testing. Some will make it, some will be babies, some will stop developing, some with miscarry. So if we every went through it again we would opt to do a very aggressive protocol with genetic diagnosing the embryos (if 5 or more) then transfer on a fet.

I had all the testing in the book, genetic test, karyotyping, blood clotting disorders, thyroid, diabetes, the works. Nothing. I am a perfectly helathy female.

DH had all the testing in the books. Nothing. Karotype normal, genetic screening normal, no other issues. Just hardly any sperm- mainly due to issues he had as a child. Unfortunately he makes hardly enough sperm but just enough for ICSI (we get anywhere from 25 sperm per sample to 500,000; average around 100).

The cycle where we had success I had an endometrial scratch biopsy the cycle before. We checked the blood flow to my uterus and it is perfect. I tried aspirin in previous cycle and it resulted in a chemical so I didnt do that. Basically, we had the transfer, ate a milkshake after, bed rest for 2 days, then went on with my normal life. I had HCG shots three times to boost the progesterone but other than that no other medications. I ovulated on my own and went in shortly after ovulation, had the embryos thawed and tranferred. It was a very easy cycle. My theory is I actually ovulate before the OPK detects my LH surge so I was obsessively testing for my ovulation and when it was almost positive I called the clinic and sure enough I had ovulated. So instead of transferring on day 6 after positive LH surge I went in on day 5 (since the test was almost positive but not just yet). But it worked and can't believe we are having a baby soon!

Sorry that is a long answer!!

 

[Briss]

dovkav, proxeed is just multi vitamins. I got it from amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/NEW-PROXEE...e=UTF8&qid=1390221895&sr=8-1&keywords=proxeed

Ingredients are here https://www.proxeed.com/ingredients.asp

I do not think it's any better than what I was giving to my DH but there were some tests done and there is proof that this complex works. DH is happy to take it cos it's dissolvable powder and is easier than swallowing tonnes of large pills.

I have seen your new thread on metal poisoning. I looked into this in the past but to be honest I do not think this is something DH and I can have control over. We filter our water but what else is there you can do about your water? Bottled water is not any better actually. Neither of us has silver/metal teeth fillings as far as I know and other than that I think any effect is minimal. (yes I did read all these wonderful stories about people TTC for ever and then changing their metal fillings and getting pregnant immediately; good for them but I do not think this is the whole story) We may have old paint who knows but I think pollution etc have some effect but it's not a determining factor; there are other issues here that have a direct and far more reaching affect on fertility. I gave up on "lifestyle" changes because (i) I wasted too much time on this already and it had no effect whatsoever and (ii) most people who get pregnant with no difficulty are very unhealthy and exposed to the same negative environmental issues as we are but it does not stop them.

If I am completely frank, I think our main issue is age. and in your case it's most likely your DH's age. I know that his SA is wonderful but most likely a lot of his sperm is chromosomally abnormal due to age. going through stims and getting to blastostage is probably the only way to find out but even than it's not a guarantee but at least you will have a choice of what embryos to put back in. I regret I did not follow my FS' advice and did not do stim IVF two years ago while my FSH was still OK. our urologist did not think that natural IVf can offer us anything because we need to have a choice of embryos to improve our chances.

I am sorry if I sound negative again, it's a tough journey and I get disappointed every time whatever I try it does not work.

I also found it interesting that you need to remove covering from the egg for ICSi. the downside is when you have an immature egg it can still fertilise it with IVF but if you take out the covering from the egg and it turns out to be immature you basically lose this egg as it's no longer suitable for ICSI and you cant go back and do IVF either. That's how we lost one egg last cycle. very depressing.

I do not understand these German laws, you can freeze the eggs for future selection but not the embryos? it really is non-sensical because the whole point of stim IVF is to be able to chose the best embryos (not the eggs) for ET the ones that are most likely going to make it in your uterus. it seems like German laws are slightly behind on this. I went for a presentation in one of London's clinics last week and they showed statistics on how the IVF success rates jumped since they introduced blastocyst culture. it seems proven that if you put back a good quality 5 day blastocyst you have far more chances of getting a viable pregnancy.

re Vit D, as with every other vitamin and super food and all the rest of it, there is some research supporting it. obviously there are also side effects. in the UK everyone is deficient in Vit D simply because we have very little sun here and yet women get pregnant here like there is no tomorrow… having said that I do take 4,000 of vit D daily for a few weeks every year, particularly winter time

I agree with MoBaby, checking tubes seems very important considering your history. sorry I forgot did hysteroscopy show any abnormality in your uterus? if not, I would not spend lots of money on immune testing but rather just take steroids after ET to deal with any possible implantation issues.

 

[dovkav123]

Mobaby,
What a story. Thank you for sharing with us. You didn't give up that's why you are rewarded!
Endometrium scratch. What is this procedure? Do you need a painkiller?
I also tried to do 3 HCG shots after the ET.

Briss, you are right that enviroment is full of poisons and you can't do much about it.
What I try to do to:
1. Open bedroom window for fresh air only before the bedtime, less traffic on the road that ime.
2. My soap detergent has no perfume and I do a second rinse. I am planning on switching washing my laundry with a baking soda.
3. Talking about baking soda and vinegar they are the best cleaners. Kitchen counter top, toilet, bathtubs, fridge. Add some lemon juice for beter aroma.
4. When I was in Lithuania, my family washes dishes with baking soda. I'll do it too. Only a very greasy pan I'll clean wih a dishsoap.
5. I always wash my fruit and veggies with vinegar, to remove pesticides.

In Lithuania we don't get much sun too, but my family eats lots of fish and I love it too!

 

[Briss]

dovkav, excellent plan! I stopped using synthetic body wash years ago and switched to organic tar soap – smells bad but DH and I got used to it over the years. I also use soda (and have been for years) to wash cups and glasses. None of it got me pregnant though…

 

[dovkav123]

You are doing everything right, Briss. You have history of cancer in your family, so protecting yourself from toxins is very important. Well done!
WE'll be parents one day, we just need to wait for a healthy egg and sperm.

I think you are righ, we are dealing with an age here. My hubby's sperm is super, but who know what are the chromosomes?
This month we every other day and hopefully this will give us the best quality Probably it'll take 3 months to see an improvement. He is sure happy about this plan!
I also finally doing my stretching exercise, castor oil with meditation.

I was in the shopping mall a couple of days ago. A little girl 1.5 was walking back and forward with her dad. My hubby noticed she liked me, smiled at me. She wanted to stay around me, but her dad was taking her away. Finally she came to me and held my hand for a second, giggled and walked away.
My hubby told me this child really likedyou. I told him this was our child, she was born to a wrong parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those were the bittest thoughts I have ever had during this infertility journey. I hope I won't have them again.

 

[dovkav123]

My hubby wants to try again natural IVF with a big implanation aid plan.
I want to check my tubes first, maybe I have a tubal problem that prevents me to succeed. Mo baby me gave this idea.
Hysteroscopy was OK. RE tells me I don't have hydrosalpynx, a BIG ONE! If I have a SMALL ONE she can't see with regular U/S.

 

[Briss]

dovkav, I think with your hubby's sperm count you can BD every day to improve the quality. at least that's what our urologist (he is considered one of the best in the UK) recommended. even though my DH's count is very low he still said it's about the quality!

re cancer, I am focusing on alkaline vs acidic food. basically cancer sells love everything acidic and they survive and grow in acidic environment; they cant live in alkaline environment. our body tries to maintain certain balance between being acidic and alkaline. but if we eat acidic food (which is basically most of our food and sugar in particular) it makes it very hard for our body to maintain this balance and cancer sells find they way in. i try to eat and drink more alkaline stuff like greens / mate tea etc

seeing other children is tough, I once was queuing to the loo on a plane and there was a lady with a new born in front of me, seeing that baby so close distressed me so much and for the first time just for a moment I actually understood how a woman can steal anther woman's child... infertility is a terrible thing it turns your soul upside down

 

[dovkav123]

Big hug, Briss
I was in the interview for a nanny position in USA several years ago and lady told me , she knew many stories when a babysitter steals kids and takes them to Mexico...(Mexican nannies are very popular, low cost and they teach children spanish.)
Now I know what could be a reason for this action.

Yes, I have read about acidic food.
Vegans suppose to be cancer free.
Unfortunatly, eating too many veggies one takes in too much pesticides.
Everything in moderation.
Milk we don't drink, we eat cheese sometimes.
I grew up with milk, with farmer's milk, raw milk. It was pure and full of vitamins. These day milk in the store is a very low quality.

some studies about infertility and milk
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18314116
avoid milk products
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11601881


choose low fat milk instead fat milk for a man
https://rmany.com/2012/11/new-study-dairy-consumption-linked-to-infertility/

 

[dovkav123]

Citation form another babybump member, something new:
Well I had my consultation on Monday in London. Very interesting. Long story short I'm doing what they call Chicago immune tests as they are over 50% sure I have immune issues given what they called my young age (ha nearly fell off my chair!) cos I'm 38 and my amh level vs what quality of eggs I seem to get. They think I have an active immune system which is what has attacked my eggs basically they cannot reverse it but they can surpress it for our cycle. So I'm doing the tests next week £800! Plus I'm doing a monitoring cycle so had a blood test last week on day 3 so having a mid cycle scan also next week then I need to get a blood test from GP to test my progesterone to see if I ovulated. They do a monitoring cycle so that when you are on a cycle and your levels change they know what's normal for me so they can deal with it. They said depending on results I will either be on a short cycle or a medicated natural cycle. It will be tests and scans everyday for 2 weeks during stimulation but have relatives down there so this is the Bootcamp for Ivf by the sounds of it and it's not going to be cheap esp if I have immunes but as this is our last try I want to leave no stone unturned! They also said that they would not take my eggs to blasto cos of the few I get it's too traumatic for them cos what they have to go through to get from day 3 to 5 or 6. They think it's better to out them back where they belong. That may change if I have 4+ eggs and they need to choose but we will see.

So that's it in a nutshell. Oh and they are doing sperm DNA fragmentation test on DH sperm not that it has been a problem but they want to check as they may put him on tablets for 3 months before treatment to help improve fragmentation which can lead to lack of implantation and miscarriages. Fx he doesn't have this prob x

 

[Briss]

Do you know what tablets they are putting her DH on for DNA fragmentation?