7th Natural cycle IVF(w/o meds) and finally BFP!

[Briss]

re milk, i think whole milk (not treated and semi fat stuff) is actually very good for fertility and egg quality. but obviously depends on where you live, I hear US milk is quite crappy and full of hormones. UK milk is pretty good and natural. not sure about Germany but I think european countries should have good quality milk compared to US

 

[dovkav123]

Butter, milk taste heavenly here compare to US. Also veggies and fruits taste sweeter and juicier here.

Did you know that you could improve DH's sperm dna fragmantation with
1g VitC and 1gr. Vit E in 2 months? Very small improvement, but it's something!
Instead testing for it I should treat him instead. I do give him Vit C every other day but Vit E he gets only small amount.
I give him Chlorella with every meal.

I found this info;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15867002

I'll ask the girl about the pills for sperm's dna.

my hubby needs to read that, it states that embryo get fertilised but doesn't grow till blastocyst.

https://www.tdlpathology.com/servic...i'll check my tubes and we'll go natural.[/U]

 

[Briss]

My DH has been on 1,000 E and 1,000 C and all the rest of it for years on and off... our urologist laughed when he saw my Dh's list of vitamins and said I captured every antioxidant known to men

I asked our urologist about antibiotics i.e. Doxycycline etc because a man could have an infection that goes undetectable for years ruining his SA but he said it is not our case we should stick to hormonal treatment and proxeed for the time being.

infertility is not always curable unfortunately...

 

[Yimah]

Hi Dovkav123,

I went through my first IVF cycle in 2011 and it failed. Dr. found fluid in my uterus and extracted the fluid prior to transferring a total of 5 "perfect" embryos on 3 different occasions. After the failed IVF i checked my tubes and they were both blocked at the distal ends. Needless to say the blockage caused fluid to retain and spill out into my uterus which is toxic to the embryos.

I had to have my tubes removed to have a good chance at my next IVF attempt. I am happy to say that at the age of 37 i fell pregnant with fraternal twins with my second IVF attempt.

If you have not done so already, please have your tubes checked to make sure you dont have a blockage and if they are blocked the doctor should be able to recommend treatment and how to move forward.

Best of luck to you all on this journey. And NEVER GIVE UP! Stay positive , God is great and you will have your blessing. My husband thought it would never happen but i always believed it would.

Baby dust to you all!

 

[dovkav123]

Yimah,
Thank you for advice. I am checking my tubes next Friday. I have seen 3 RE in 6 months and they all convinced me and my hubby that this test will not show anything, because the lap is not done. If the tubes are open, but they don't function, I'll get ectopic.
RE recommended hysteroscopy, cos the view is much better for diagnosis and he insured me that he would check the tubes. Another RE did an exam and never checked them.
I agree with you!
This journey is the hardest ever; however, we should never give up!

 

[dovkav123]

My RE wrote me:

as I told you last time there is no evidence concerning potential benefits of examining sperm DNA-fragmentation or of specfic treatment in case of higher framentation rates. This is why I do not recommend these examinations. In case a couple however wants to test the sperm DNA-fragmentation it can be examined by Synlab.

We send some information concerning Sperm DNA fragmentation (we have it only in German language) to your husband.

As it is a (genetic) examination of the male partner your husband must make an appointment with me after having read the infomation to talk about the test and the costs. He then must also bring the information back as he has to sign the consent forms. Then (and not before!!!) he can make an appointment with our IVF-lab to give the sperm sample and we then will send the sperm then to Synlab.

RESPONCE to his silver teeth filling :Concerning his teeth: When the dentist says everything is ok then I do not recommend additional examinations. The effect of vitamin tablets is not clear. Most likely they are not harmful, however there is no evidence for a benefit.


RE told me before that his sperm may have chromosomal problems.
Before stimulated IVF I want to check this out. What happens, if non of the egg will fertilise?

 

[dovkav123]

I hear this every single appointment:"No supportive evidence concerning potential benefits about this test"(immunity, dq match, genetic) I understand that only small studies were done about those issues and insurance or goverment will not pay for that. But we pay ourselves. Dr. should not deny a test even for our peace of mind.

"Vitamins(zinc, selenium, chlorella) has no evidence of benefits?" Why do I take folic acid?

 

[Briss]

dovkav, I had laparoscopy & Dye/hysteroscopy all at the same time. it took about 30-40 min under general anesthetic; it's very invasive test but at least it confirmed that tubes/ uterus is fine (cos HSG previously was inconclusive) and no endo etc.

re examining sperm DNA-fragmentation, my DH's morphology is quite bad so our urologist did not recommend wasting money on this test cos he said we can assume the result wont be great and it is only going to depress us. so DH is to take antioxidants (and most importantly stay away from the beer which is basically the main reason for his poor morphology). also obviously he recommended stim IVF for a choice of embryos. we could also go for IMSI next time which is an additional level of sperm quality check before choosing a sperm for ICSI. in your case morphology is good but due to age DNA fragmentation can still be bad. I cant tell you whether you need to do the test or not but it can provide an answer as to why you cant conceive (anything over 30% fragmentation and the chances of a healthy embryo are basically close to 0) but if the DNA fragmentation is OK then you should probably leave your DH alone and concentrate on your fertility and maybe go for more invasive tests.

re vitamins and tests, there are official guidelines so no research will be accepted by FS unless it is included in the official guidelines. for example, two years ago I begged my FS to do AMH test and she refused because it was not part of the tests accepted for IVF in the UK. now two years later they finally accepted it and now everyone gets it done for free via NHS. Really annoying cos I had to pay for it. the same with vitamins, she told me no research on any vitamins helping sperm quality. now our urologist said that it is confirmed that antioxidants help sperm quality. but obviously I have known this for years. it's just taking ages for the system to process new findings so they are always behind.

 

[Briss]

re folic acid, I do not know it is the same in germany but in the UK we are deficient and there were studies linking it to birth defects. but please make sure you take the natural form which is folate and not folic acid. folic acid is being stored in your body and is linked to cancer. it's fine for ladies who get pregnant quickly but we are TTC for ages so taking folic acid long term can be harmful. folate seems like a much better alternative.

 

[dovkav123]

Thank you, my friend, I am taking folate acid, I double checked on the lable.

Today we received info about a sperm dna fragmentation. My RE put an extra brochure from the synlab and it states that the sperm dna fragmantation problem could be fixed with antioxidants! Hell, my hubby got mad on our RE! She stated it's not proven!

Anyway, I have drank alcohol every day since I found out our embryo didn't make it.
Tonight was the last 3 glasses of wine I drank, cos tomorrow will be the 3rd day of my cycle and my folilcle will start growing.

Few days ago we went to the art gallery to Heidelberg and we saw a beautiful painting and I was so sure I can paint it myself. The castle, the bridge and Necka river. My hubby's mother's birthday is on February and she always wanted a painting of Heidelberg. I want to do it for her. Today I bought the canvas for a painting and I realised I need to paint it for us. For me and my hubby cos we had our first romantic walk by the river in Heidelberg a night before my first IVF. I injected myself with HCG shot in the car, with the light of street lights. And we were dreaming of big...maybe too big....

 

[Briss]

Dovkav, how romantic! I am sure you will get lucky very soon. you so deserve it. I did not know you can paint. it's wonderful! I have bought a few paintings I just love it and could stare at them for ages.

 

[dovkav123]

You deserve it soooo much too!
Tomorrow I have contrast u/s for tubes.
Wish me good luck! If they are open we'll try IUI on Monday.
My hubby will do his sperm dna fragmentation test.
Just hate sit and do nothing, any little step it's only forward!

 

[Briss]

best of luck with your contrast u/s tomorrow! I hope it's good news and IUI will work! fingers crossed!!

 

[dovkav123]

Thank you, Briss.
My procedure took looong time! RE couldn't put catheter in...She wanted to use a baloon catheter but they didn't have it. She kept trying till she succeeded(3rd try) It was painful! More painful than an egg retrieval! The dye went throught the tubes, so my tubes are open. However, we don't know if my tubes are damaged from pelvic surgery.
Anyway, Everything looks normal. My follicle on the left was 12mm. On Monday we may do IUI.
Sperm dna we'll check when we know the result of this cycle.

I asked my RE about ureaplasma, mycoplasma in sperm(bacteria could cause dna problems). She told me it's always there, if you have too many you treat with antibiotics and in two weeks the bacteria comes back.
I don't know if we'll test for that.
I asked about the white blood cells in sperm. Durind SA they check that. DR. worry if they find a big number of those cells.

I'll sleep better tonight, the mystery is solved. My tubes are OK.
I wanted to cry after this test. Why are we both so perfect and why are we so infertile? How many other tests we should do to find out the reason?



How is your mood today?
Hve you planned anything fun for this weekend?

I am hopeful for you this month.
Can you do IUI while you waiting those 2 long months?

 

[Briss]

dovkav, great news!!! such a relief that tubes are open! you can go ahead with IUI, I am so hoping it will work!

afm, too much stress at work. there is a lot going on and lots of pressure from everywhere I feel like I am about to break. am also facing several business trips abroad and some during our ferrite time so we will miss a cycle or two…

I wanted to do IUI but we do not have enough sperm for that

 

[dovkav123]

Stay strong, the weather makes people unhappy. When the sun will shine brighter, things will be better
Have you thought about taking sperm from testicular and do IUI? we need only one to make it!
https://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/7/2031.full

 

[Briss]

yes, we considered that but our urologist said it's not going to make a difference and it's mainly used for men who have very little sperm not more than a few thousands not millions. basically we are following the treatment that our urologist suggested which is hormones but ultimately it's most likely going to take a few stim IVFs until we get a viable embryo, I have no idea why it is so dramatically complicated, too tired to even think about it at the moment. I just need to get through the next couple of months and see if the treatment made any difference to DH's SA and then we will think about our options.

it's depressing but unfortunately "we need only one" does not quite work for sperm cos in reality we need at least 100,000,000 to start the journey so that 5-10 swimmers could get a good chance of getting to the egg; penetrating that egg is a whole different story. when you actually look at the journey the sperm have to make you wont believe that anyone ever gets pregnant

 

[dovkav123]

I agree the journey is a very difficult one. Lots of die, most of them, only a few gets to the egg. However, with IuI we are helping them to make it to the uterus, maybe closer to the tubes.
Dr. goes by golden standart, but we are all individual people with different needs. You should try IUI!
Look at me 3 RE were against flushing my tubes, but finally I did and found out they are open, hopefully got open during the flush. Hope and pray that my pelvic surgery didn't do much harm to my fimbrae, cos those hair like structures help the egg to find a tube.

I went to my RE on Monday. I was hoping to see 20mm on my left size, but we found only 14,6mm. It grew only 2,6 mm in 4 days. My right size has a 13.6mm!!!!!
What a suprise! This is crazy! I am excited!
But my RE is sure that we have only one follicle this cycle, cos another didn't grow enought and possible there is no egg. She insured me that it's not a cyst. My lining is still thin 7.2mm. It's growing along with a follicle. We are checking again on Wednesday.
I am going to be CD12 tomorrow and I am sure I'll O late this cycle.
This cycle is different, no spotting after AF. This cycle possible is a healthy one, maybe a healthy egg is growing slowly and cozy.(or maybe 2?)

I think that my body decided to grow two follicles. It slowed down the left one that it catches up with a right one.
My grandmother has twins, fartenal. This is a genetic and runs into families.

We asked RE about clomid, she wouldn't do it in this case. How funny, that my hubby came up with this idea, cos he is so against hormones.

 

[dovkav123]

I am sorry,Briss AF came and I am so sorry you need to go out of the town during your fertile time. I hope things will change

 

[Briss]

dovkav, with my first natural IVf I was told the second follicle was smaller and did not grow and unlikely to have an egg so they did not touch it during EC BUT it did ovulate later on its own so it did have an egg after all (it was confirmed on the scan there was a yellow body seen where the follicle used to be) so hopefully you have at least two healthy eggies on their way!