any other over 35 first time mums?

Written yesterday:

Borboleta--aaaaahhhh!!!! Taxes!!!!!! Luckily OH does them. I earn so little that I get it all back, and then he uses MY return to pay down how much he owes. Which is fine (and actually necessary), but sometimes, just sometimes, I'd like my own money, other than the pittance I make at the university and the baby bonus checks I get which go to J's education fund anyway. OH doesn't give me an allowance; he just pays off my credit cards at the end of the month, but still...

Oh, poor little T! My heart broke reading what you wrote. And poor you guys, as well. It must be so hard! I used to be afraid of the same thing: J getting addicted to the painkillers because he was so excited when we broke them out, but I think he just knew it meant relief from the pain. I think this is the only (but it is a big one) bonus to J's coming in so very very slowly. But your doc is right about incisors. They just frickin' won't come in! They're there: you can feel them, but they won't descend! I've been able to see one of J's for MONTHS.

That's good to know about the straw cup; that was the only thing keeping me from getting it. I'll go to BRU and find it; I just went to, granted, a HUGE grocery store that sells way more than groceries, but they aren't dedicated to babies. But we appear to have something good going on with the bottles and the milk; I've been giving him pure milk and warming it up before nap/bedtime. And, I had totally forgotten that milk has an enzyme that helps you sleep! Anyway, he is accepting the milk, without the formula, so we're halfway there! I'll worry about bottles later. The big problem was accepting milk, and now he is.

Angel--it sounds like such a lovely visit with your mum! My mum and I just decided an hour ago that she's coming at the end of this month, once all my marks are in, and I'm so happy. OH is going to take that time to go skiing in the Rockies for a few days, so we'll have the run of the house.

As for Marbella, or at least where my Grandmother lived, it was gorgeous. I've yet to see anything as beautiful. They had a lovely house (there was even a tower!) and pool, and orange and lemon trees, and if you looked to the right, you could see the mountains, and if you looked to the left, you could see the ocean. Have you been to the Alhambra? If you ever make it out there again, you should go there; I think your artistic sensibilities would quite appreciate it!

As for the bread, my BLW cookbook suggests putting it in the oven on broil, and just quickly toasting one side only. You're then to use the soft side (I think--I actually never remember which side so I'll check it out) to put whatever you want to put on it, and the toasted side stops it from sticking. Again--I think. Let me get back to you about which side to use.

I can't believe you got the same eggs! Who thinks these are a good idea??? Apparently J's cousin loved them at the age of one, but J shows no interest, and I can't even find all the pieces to even put it away properly.

And re: dressing. I am just like you. The postman (in other words, the Amazon Prime delivery man!) is used to me by now, I think, as J is always running around in the background yelling "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!" so I think it's obvious what's causing my dishevelled state. I can't even pull my hair back anymore because it's too short. Though I did find the most amazing thing the other day: Dry Shampoo! Who knew? I've always used baby powder (as I am no stranger to greasy hair and needing to go somewhere with no time to wash it), but this... The inventor deserves a Nobel Prize.

Boob-wise, I wear a bra night and day because I hate the feeling of my breasts sagging against my skin. And if it worked for Elizabeth Taylor...



SK--hollow eggs and bunnies drive me NUTS, and always have. What's the point? I'm so sorry that there is such a lack of proper easter chocolate there. :hugs: Next year I'll send you a proper bunny.

Your husband needs a "come to Jesus moment," I think, where he finally wakes up and realizes he's been living in a fantasy land. It's too bad that you don't have relatives around so you can take off for a weekend or something and leave F with OH, just as he does with you. Did he tell you he intended to stay so long at his mother's?

Continued Today:

Leeze--First, I'm so glad you had such fun at the farm! I think I missed how it works; is it your own farm? And, "cockerel"! What a great word! Multi-syllabic indeed! I don't think the ducks are back from their winter stay down south, but when they're back and the snow is gone, I'm now going to take him to feed and chase ducks. What a great idea! K must have loved it! And second--SIX teeth? How many more do you have to go? And why is J not getting any? Does he not have anymore than 8? Absolutely nothing is moving in that mouth. Except his lips and his tongue...

Ten Little Ladybugs--I'm on it! Thank you. Did you get the No No Yes Yes book? J LOVES it. Or rather, loved it. Can you believe he's off of books again? That was all of 4-5 months of obsession, and now, he'll bring over a few occasionally, but it's not a constant occurrence anymore. He's working intensely on his "tunes" right now, though. He keeps lugging the xylophone around the house and putting it on different surfaces. He seems to be looking for something with good reverb, and something that is at the perfect height for him to really rock that thing. :cloud9:

Borboleta--a fever?! Oh no! :hugs: And here are some for little T: :hugs: How high is it? I'm sorry your night was so miserable, too.

Okay, have to go for now, but will be back!
 
clio - similar situation here re: taxes. I make so little money that although I pay for medical appointments, prescriptions out of my money, we get tax relief (some money back) only because my OH is taxed. Plus, this government is planning on cutting child benefit if your family income is over a certain amount, but not if the individual receiving is making peanuts. GROWL.

LO is too active for me -- I feel sooooooooo old and achey (day 3 of AF, though) as I try to keep him active. Only housework now is when/if he has a nap. I honestly didn't think how much work a baby would be, BUT I think it's because I want to spend time with him and only use the jumperoo for a break, otherwise I am in the same room always (obviously, LO needs independent time to play....but as his new thing is trying to get out of the living room as fast as possible, I need to be right there....). Must go and turn off the oven, etc., as dinner is almost ready and LO needs to wake up from his nap....

bye!
 
forgot to say

leeze - cockerel? wow! and bye bye ba is def a sentence to me! :thumbup:
 
Good morning ladies :) Thanks all for your responses re the BST. I think the boys have adjusted themselves. Today they woke at 6:45 which is actually 5:45 by BWT. So I am assuming this is the result of our setting them back by increments. And I was so hoping to sleep till AFTER 7 by the clock :haha:

Borboleta I hope T is better now and the fever is gone? Hopefully your night last night was better too! Sounds awful before! I love the pic of him on FB with the pasta. So cute!! Btw I thought the incisors were the 4 teeth at the top front and the corner teeth (or fangs ;)) are called canines? Might be wrong there though. But T has the top front four hasn't he?
As for the bottle, the one we have definitely has a straw and we can only turn the bottle at an angle when there is quite a lot of liquid still left. But they both like this bottle and I am now giving them these for their water during the day. Dominic will still do his suck ans spill game but his Funky Giraffe bibs catch most of it if I don't give him too much at a go.
Good luck with the taxes!I don't envy you and I am so glad my father's (now my brother's) bookkeeper does mine for me :p
As for the meds, I wonder if perhaps he just likes the taste and not the fact that it is a painkiller? I hope so! Our boys get their Calpol in their milk cause they won't swallow it if I give it directly from the syringe. (Mind you I haven't tried in many months as the bottle is easier).

Leeze how is sleeping going with Kia now? Is she having a break from teething at the moment? I loved the pic of her in the farmyard! So cute! I really want to take my boys to a petting zoo now or a farm if we can manage it (and the weather stays sunny). And I am so impressed with K and the word cockerel! And saying bye bye to things is definitely a sentence :) Well done young lady

Kosh how was G's sleep last night? I hope he didn't wake screaming again? I was thinking about what you said and maybe it IS the new sheets. I bet to him the old sheets just smelled of mummy and comfort and maybe the new smell of washing powder was unsettling to him and he thought you weren't there? If so, I am guessing he woke after every sleep cycle cause sleep isn't deep then and the new smell penetrated his consciousness? Would make sense. Let us hope that as the sheets get more lived in he sleeps a little better again. :hugs:
Gave the boys toast last night which Dominic, greedy as he is, more or less swallowed whole. Sebastian loved it but still spat out most of the bread and took over 10 minutes for just one piece. I think he really cannot process the bread yet. Today we will try with omelette. That should be easier :)
As for books, I have been buying a lot of Lynley Dodd's Hairy Maclary and Slinky Malinki books which deal with cats and dogs and they rhyme. My boys seem to like them a lot and I think Clio said J liked some of them too. Very cute books :)

Clio yay for your mum coming :) Has she been with your sister all this time? And how is your sister and her little girl doing?
And yes I have been to the Alhambra several times. I agree that it is one of the most magical and gorgeous places in the world! Absolutely stunning!
I tried the toast last night and Dominic loved it and more or less swallowed it whole. Sebastian, more delicate in all things nibbled and tried to "chew" but most of the bread came out again. So I think we shall not give that as a main meal thing again but maybe just as a snack for a while. Today we will try omelette with ham and cheese and see how that goes. Should be easier. But thank you so much for your recommendations :)
As for Dry Shampoo, yeah I have known about it since a child and have bought it on occasion but I don't like it much. It leaves my hair kinda dull-coloured and even greyish, no matter how much I brush. But I am guessing this might be more apparent in dark hair and ok in your blond?
So what do you think of Amazon Prime? Pretty cool huh? I order so much from Amazon that their yearly fee is nothing! lol And I so LOVE having my stuff the next day hehe.
Oh and did I mention already how incredibly impressed I am that J speaks in sentences now? He is just amazing! Not only really really cute and funny but also amazingly intelligent. :D

Jules thanks so much for the warning re Diet Chef. I find the WeightWatchers ready meals inedible already so I don't think I can manage a whole 4 months with meals that are equally disgusting. Especially not since I don't find that programme cheap. But I must say that though Pure Package sounds lovely I don't think I want to pay £32 per day. I really cannot afford that. If I calculate correctly this would cost £960 per month and I want to lose 35lbs which would probably take about 4 month. Golly! lol
I guess I will stick with the WeightWatchers plan but just not eat their meals. :( Maybe I will have to start going to their meetings to add the peer pressure as a motivation. lol
Glad all your appointments went well and that your boy is doing well. Have you finalised your choice of names? And yay for 8 hours sleep :D Long may it continue :)

Sabrina as usual your stories about your cats make me smile. I love that they stay on surfaces to avoid F lol And if you get extra kitty cuddles so much the better! Our Alfie is still biting and clawing us after 1 minute of us being allowed to stroke him. All in playfulness but it makes bonding very hard. I think we made a mistake in adopting him cause I suppose if we had loads more time to devote to him, he might be over this now. Maybe he would have been better off with someone else. But of course I am attached to him and I don't want to give him away and really there is no need either as he isn't dangerous to either us or the boys. I am still hoping he will get over it, though he is now roughly 2 years old. What do you think? He does always come to the room I am in especially and he purrs lots too but I am just not used to a cat I cannot cuddle. Even my stroppy half-wild Schnitzel in Switzerland loved to be stroked and cuddled. Admittedly she got swipey when she had enough of my mum stroking her but that was after a good 10 to 15 minutes and she never pulled that trick with me. :(

Anyway got to go and feed my lovely boys their brekkie. I am sure there was something else I wanted to say but alas my baby brain is still transforming my brain into a sieve! xxx
(ETA and that last sentence was proof if you ever needed such (shakes head at self))
 
Good morning ladies,

Thiago is back to his old self :happydance:. He ran a fever from Saturday till Tuesday morning but he is doing great now:). So happy to have my little man back :thumbup:. The funny thing is that his sleep has been been great for almost 2 ww. He has been Sttn often now :shrug:. But I am not complaining about that :haha:. And he has been eating like crazy since yesterday!!! He devour pasta with meat sauce yesterday ( which he didn't like before) and today I made him scrambled eggs for breakfast and he ate all that too. I am so proud of him :kiss:. His eating has greatly improved!!! And by the way the pasta was fresh from a nice grocery store here. So maybe he doesn't like pasta that comes in a box :haha:!!

We finished our taxes and we finally are getting some money back :happydance:!!! It has been years that we owe money but little T helped us this year!!!

I am posting this now and will do personals when little t goes take his nap:).
 
Hi Ladies, I have been reading but haven't managed to find enough time to actually post.
I am mad busy as I go away with Lucy for 2 weeks tomorrow eve (Daddy follows on a week later) I have a mountain to pack and I am soooooooo tired today. Lucy had a dreadful night last night and I just know it's teething - she was even moaning/crying in her sleep:cry:
I really,really need a good night tonight as tomorrow I have to set off in the car at about 8pm to drive to catch the ferry at 2.45am! then if I'm lucky I can grab 4 hours on the ferry in the cabin,but that would be a miracle as I will have to get hers truly back off to sleep 1st and then get off to sleep myself:wacko: then it will be up and off for a 4 hour drive:nope: I think I'm crazy!!
Oh and I think we both have colds too:cry:

Right,best get on and I apologise in advance for my absence over the next couple of weeks - lack of internet connection due to being in the arse end of nowhere!! lol
:hugs:
 
Angel: You are so right about the teeth!!! I was calling canine but my MIL was calling incisors and I thought she was naming right :haha:!! Thiago is getting his canines. He already has his incisors :dohh:! He is really just missing the 4 canines and the other 4 sets of molars that are way back and them he will have 20 teeth :wacko:.
I am glad to hear the boys are eating a little better ( well seb :haha:). I am telling that once thiago got his molars life has changed. So maybe that will happen to seb too:).
You know what I love about your boys ... They are so different physically and their personality. I love that Dom has more of a wavy hair and seb is straight:). And one is more sensitive and the other more wild:). Just perfect!

Clio: yay for J drinking regular milk :happydance:!!! And I totally agree with you on the bottles and actually everything about how we need to take one step at a time with babies. Too much change at once for them is not good. Milk first ( check) them bottles to sippy cup.

Kosh: I loved your story about Gael saying agua for things he wants. I wonder if thiago is going to do that too :haha:. At the moment he just says dada and we are think he is trying to say clock which sounds like ak. I can't blame him for trying to say that word instead of relogio ( Portuguese for clock :haha:). I just wished he would say mamma before ak. :dohh:.
And how did he sleep last night? I have a feeling he could be teething and that is why he woke up so many times the night before. Or maybe he could be gassy?

Oh, talking about gassy, thiago has the WORST gasses ever!!!! Man they stinck!!!! Do your LOs have bad gas too?

Anyways back with you kosh: thiago enjoys the baby version books from doctor Seuss and now he is enjoying a book series about a yellow puppy called biscuit. He just got from my SIL biscuit's pet & play Easter. It is by alyssa satin capucilli. And he likes the fisher price little people books too. Oh and sesame street books. And like leeze said 10 little lady bugs and baby Galileo see the stars.

Jules: man you are busy!! How are you managing to travel so much almost at the end of pregnancy? When is your actual due date? And :happydance:For sleeping 8 hours straight!!! Like you we have two different changing stations at our house two, one upstairs and one downstairs. It really helps!!

Claire: you are crazy :haha:! And you are doing all that by yourself? My heart goes to you Claire:). You are a trooper!! Hope L will sleep for you today.

Sabrina: I know how you feel about feeling to old of a mommy :haha:! I am glad I workout because other wise I could not keep up with little t. And that is because he is not super active yet :dohh:! Wait until they about 2 :dohh:!!! I am really thinking of stopping with little t :haha:.

Leeze: cockerel!! I am going to check the dictionary to find out what that word is and how to spell it :haha:!!!! She is amazing!!! And I love how her little hair has a little wave to it:).

Charlie: how is S doing? Hope she is sleeping better:).

Talk to you ladies soon:).
 
Borboleta - I really don't know but I'm getting to the end of my energy to be bothered now! I'm 36 weeks and technical due date was 1 May but C section is 29 April. Was just saying to Mum that I think I may head back to London earlier than expected and leave on Monday. I started getting cramping during the night last night and that has put the wind up me a bit!

Clairey - that sounds quite full on with L! Hope it all goes well though and you can get some rest.

Angel - yep, Pure Package is definitely punchy.... I'm really pro Weight Watchers (not their ready meals though :haha:) and years back I used to do it via the public weekly weigh-ins rather than just doing it at home. The benefit of the public ones is encouragement from the leader and having someone chart your weight. Definitely no naming and shaming though! It was really supportive.

And speaking of weight, here is my 36 week bump shot. Blahhhh x
 

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Wow Jules are you sure you have a baby in there??? you look tiny!:thumbup: I think you shoild come back to London and rest up,just incase.
Lucy is super fussy today and I'm finding it hard to get things done. I'm only on here now as she is next to me eating her dinner:winkwink:
Oh, and she had her 1st hair cut today - I felt like crying:cry: my baby isn't a baby anymore!

xx
 
Awww, LOs first hair cuts are always so nice though as its the start of their hair looking a bit thicker from trimming. I'm sure she looks lovely :hugs:

Yep, I'm distended as hell so definitely a bamboo in there! I think its just that my bump is a funny shape and coming round my sides too, not just all out at the front. I feel like a barrel x
 
Jules: I agree with Claire, where is the baby? :haha:. But you are right we have different bump shapes and yours just looks higher:). He is not ready to come down I guess :winkwink:.
 
another 4am party...growl. So brought LO into bed with me and he wanted to hold hands (sweet, yes), but then discovered that I had buttons on my nightgown so wanted to play with them, had to change into a t-shirt to get him to stop....am exhausted, so no real personals, sorry....

hope all are well. good to hear that T is better, Borboleta!...

bye!
 
Sabrina: you made me laugh about Finn wanting to play with your bottoms at 4am!!! Babies ... They are so ADD aren't they :haha:!!
 
Oh My!! we had a screaming fest last night and she just wouldn't settle! I've not had a great deal of sleep and the thought of having to drive tonight until 2am is stomach churning!!!:wacko::wacko: also, think AF is on the way too and I have a cold.....could it be any worse??? oh yes, Lucy could have a cold too? oh! she has one of those too - goodie!:haha:
Hope everyone elses nights were a bit better than mine.
Ps. I think the bad sleep is teething related!
 
claire - :hugs::hugs:

sabrina - how long do your parties at 4am go for? we had one yesterday until 6am :wacko: we hadn't had one of those in a long time. i am absolutely shattered.:sleep:

jules - agree with the ladies, where is the baby??

borboleta - I can't see G saying 'reloj' any time soon either :winkwink:

angel - your clean sheets theory would make perfect sense, but unfortunately the first day I changed them Gael slept pretty well :shrug: in fact I even thought I should change them more often! :blush:

sleep is getting worse. as I said, last night he not only woke every hour, but also spent 2hr awake and would not go back to sleep :wacko:
please please tell me that this is teeth related. I was actually crying last night :cry:

enough of that :coffee:

re. books - we need something where rhyme is not relevant, as I read them to him in Spanish! :haha:

hope you are all well
:flower:
 
Claire: can your mom join you on your trip? If not make sure you take loads Os caffeine to keep yourself awake. And to top it all of AF is coming too :wacko:. :hugs:

Kosh: how many teeth does Gael has? My SIL said and I read on the Internet about a lot of moms saying how sleep is gone when they are teething. So that could most definetely be the answer of him awaking up so. Early. You know what it is funny is that my MIL says that she does not remember any of her kids waking up during the night because of teething issues. Well, she had no monitor at the time and it has been 43 years ago so how can you remember that!!

And the books I do the same as you with thiago, even though they are in English I just translate to Portuguese as I am reading unless is dr. Seuss although I do translate the fish story to thiago cause it is an easy one.

I guess I spoke to soon about the good sleep. Thiago woke up at 3:45am and I just was able to go back to bed at 4:15am!! I think he has something against the heater. Maybe he was cold too, but everytime the heater has to be on during the night he wakes up! Another one of my theories :haha:. At least he doesn't seem to have anything against the A/C which is the one that will be running the most throughout the year :haha:.
 
borboleta - gael has 11 teeth!! 4 top + 4 bottom + 3 molars!!!
 
Kosh: I know the feeling of all these teething coming in!!! Thiago has 12 and now going to 13 ( I think I felt the left top canine). Maybe Gael is getting his 4th molar? Thiago was not very happy with that one either. But not as bad as this canine that hopefully is coming down soon:). I have been giving him ibuprofen every time before bed and it seems to help better than Tylenol. Maybe you can try that.
 
Right ladies,this is my last post for a bit (unless I can get internet connection somewhere?)
I will have a lot to catch up on my return.
Jules keep your legs crossed until I return as I don't want to miss the birth of baby!! lol

Keep well and happy ladies and babies.
xx
 
Hi Kosh!--one of J's favourite books right now is "Good Night Gorilla," which definitely has a story, but it's mainly in pictures, and is so cute. Very easily translated, with lots of objects to identify in the pictures. He was also obsessed with "Good Night Moon" before bed as well for the longest time. When I first got it, I thought it had such strange colours that J wouldn't like it, but he LOVED it, and also learned a lot of words from not only the "story" but also the pictures. Right now he's really into this one, too:

https://www.amazon.ca/Big-Board-Fir...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365087200&sr=1-1

It seems really simple, but the colours are so bright and the pictures so easily recognizable that again, he's learned new words, and practiced old ones (and it's so easily translatable into Spanish!).

I wouldn't dismiss books that have no story; often they're the ones which help vocabulary the most, and I find J gets bored with stories. He doesn't have the attention span for them. At first I thought that he really would get into stories, but nope...

Oh, and some other great ones are the Eric Carle books: "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" and "Brown Bear, Brown Bear, What Do You See?" Leeze also turned me onto the Leslie Patricelli books, which have few words, but even my 5 year old nephew loves them. He finds "Yummy Yucky" hilarious.

https://www.amazon.com/Yummy-Yucky-Leslie-Patricelli-board/dp/0763619507

So, has G's hourly screaming stopped? Before this, how many stretches of sleep have you been getting?

Jules--what a lovely bump! I was HUGE at 35 weeks, but it seems that J was going at an accelerated pace in order to be born at 8 lbs 1 oz at 38 weeks (little stinker!).

Thanks for the advice re: the blanket. I actually wanted one that he can wrap around himself so he can get used to moving around and keeping the comforter on him. So I found a crib duvet and cover at IKEA:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8397/8620140936_e2ddc8b8d4_n.jpg

He's actually doing very well with it; OH often comes in and finds him under it. For some reason, he's always sitting up when I come in, so I've never seen it. But now I have to get him a pillow. Back to IKEA I go (which is SUCH a hardship!).

Claire--if you are anywhere in the vicinity of the internet right now, oh my lord! What an odyssey you have planned, and you're both sick! Are your parents going to be there when you arrive so they can baby you both until you feel better? How long are you staying? And have a lovely time! I am so jealous!

Borboleta--Is T getting anywhere with those canines? That fever must have resulted in something! I'm still waiting on the one canine I can see, which STILL has a blood pocket around it and yet shows no signs of moving down. Oh well, at least teething has been so slow for us that it has been relatively painless, so no wake-ups in the night. What did the nurse suggest T chew on to help them break through?

Angel--J does the same "sip and spill" game! Drives me nuts. He'll take a sip from his sippy cup, open his mouth and let the water dribble down his shirt. And then, I've got to change his shirt 50 million times a day because when he's on a roll, he's on a roll.

My sister's LO is doing well, we think. My sis isn't too forthcoming with information. She will phone my mother in tears because something is wrong (usually a feeding issue), but the very next day my mum will phone back and ask after the problem. And then my sister acts as if nothing happened and is confused as to why my mum is concerned. It's driving my poor mum round the bend.

Did the omelette work? This has been a staple of J's diet since we started BLW because you can sneak so many veggies in, plus cheese, and it's really easy for him to handle. Scrambled eggs work very well, too.

Oh, and I love Amazon Prime! I think I will buy a membership. Though we get two day shipping, and some packages arrive later than two days, which is annoying. But I love thinking of something we need, finding it on Amazon, click one button, and then not have to worry about shipping costs and how long it'll take to arrive. I ordered an alarm clock last night, and a new set of phones a few weeks ago. And the number of books for J is just embarrassing.

SK--how sweet about holding hands! How not sweet for playing with your "bottom," as Borboleta's typo said... :haha: I hope that this teething session ends soon!

Nothing much new here. J has a new favourite "thing," though. He will come up to me with his 'tar (ukelele), say "'tar," and look pointedly at my laptop. He wants to hear guitar music and once I set it up for him, he immediately throws his guitar onto the ground and stares intently at the screen, even though nothing is happening. He's even figured out how to start the music again by hitting the space bar if I've stopped it.

Oh, and we took the gate down from the stairs leading to the upper floor. It was becoming increasingly unstable (it never fit well to begin with) and J kept on pulling on it and using it to help him bounce. We figured he was actually in more danger with the gate up! So, we've removed all breakables and the plant in the upstairs hallway, make sure all the doors are closed and he now has free-rein up there. Though all he really wants to do is climb up and down the stairs.

Question:--J is no longer STTN because he wakes at 4 something every morning wanting a bottle. My husband gives it to him every time, and then J falls right back to sleep. BUT, right now, all he's getting is whole milk in his bottles, so this seems like more of a comfort thing than a hunger thing. Did any of you try to wean your LO off of a middle of the night bottle that you know he doesn't need? Do we put water in the bottle to discourage him? Angel, didn't you do something like this with Dom?
 

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