any other over 35 first time mums?

re: boys' clothes -- I absolutely agree with you clio -- fortunately, there's loads with animals, e.g. farm or jungle, so we go for that. I found loads of cute stuff at babyGap, but not so sure about toddlerGap! I do have a few items with helicopters on it, and don't mind so much some boyish stuff but HATE the 'my little boy is a soldier' stuff. NO!!!!

My goal with LO is to have him grow up to know how to do housework, dig a hole and hopefully, know a few languages! I absolutely hate the gender bias with toys as well....in my case, with an older brother, I played with cars and barbie, I built cities in the mud and read girls' books, but am not so girly, I guess. oh, well...my OH uses the 'but you're his mother', when I complain that I do everything for LO', and my response, 'but I'm not YOURS!'.....

bye!!!!!!!!
 
hello everyone :flower:
sorry I've been totally MIA, we're in hell over here - started with really bad cold with high temperature and ended up with paramedic's visit :nope: as it happens as soon as they arrived Gael was absolutely fine and all smiles :dohh:
he's still not well, can't breath properly and is incredibly upset all day. i have the feeling a molar is coming through as he wakes up in the middle of the night screaming :nope:
he's waking up hourly at night and from 3-4am he will not sleep if it's not in my arms,so I spent all the last few days sleeping (or trying to sleep) propped up with pillows :wacko::sleep:
We'll be moving houses soon so I have started packing. Quite exciting, but exhausting too. Plus, I actually hate moving, so I am somehow trying to deal with the anxiety it causes :nope:
it's thursday today - 2 weeks to go back to work. I can't believe it. Feel really sad about it, can't stop crying :cry:
On the positive side, it seems my little man is saying daddy (papa). I have denied it for a while, but I think I can;t anymore :winkwink: he's crawling backwards and also clapping :cloud9: I love him soooo much :cloud9::cry:

So that's us

I haven't read any of the posts so, I have no idea what's going on, but I wanted to say hi a least. To be honest, I really don't know how much I'll be able to check in once I am back at work, so it might be goodbye from me soon :cry:
 
ah kosh big hugs x - great re how well gael is doing - teeth suck big time!!!! hope they come through soon and hope the house move goes well - weve moved 4 times in the last few years so I know what a pain it is!

over here we had 4 hours sleep in a row last night woop woop! good times!

booked a preg massage but phoned my folks and they said they couldn't look after martha as my dad wanted to go on a walk that day......my folks march to their own beat - they said the other day they would start looking after martha one day a week which i thought wow thats amazing - could get so much done - pilates, massage, swim, dhs accounts, housework etc etc it would really really help us out - esp as we lost over a years worth of accounts when our laptop broke so we now have that to do as well - well that has already changed to from 10.30am til mid afternoon and not on a thursday and I have to take martha as they wont buy a carseat etc etc and they dont want to buy toys so can i just bring some of the toys shes grown out of...

they always offer stuff then slowly take it back....
 
To be honest, I really don't know how much I'll be able to check in once I am back at work, so it might be goodbye from me soon :cry:

It's hard, I admit -- but I'd hate it think that our little group would end......I'm back at work (mornings only, tho) and try to check once a day - LOL! As for the crying, honey -- it isn't so bad being back at work, but give yourself a little time to get used to it -- and hope Gael is okay!

Rowan -- :growlmad:how annoying re: 'offers' of help from parentals!

LO is good, eating crayons at creche and playing with paint -- now, I understand why mummies have to do laundry so much (it was easier before when immobile and at home) - LOL!

hope everybody else is okay? I'm going to either have a great weekend with LO (OH is working both days) or will be killing my OH through sheer exhaustion (as OH is working both days!)...fingers crossed that we all three survive ....

will try to check in later today/tonight!

bye!!!!!!!
 
Hi ladies. I wrote a long post yesterday and it seems to have gone missing. Grr. Anyway, it was mainly to say 'don't leave us, Kosh. You're our thread Mummy!' totally understand not having any time, but even if you just popped in when you have a minute to say hello - that would be great. I'm not at work yet but have no time as it is but hope people understand if I don't comment on all posts or remember things etc. We're all tired and busy Mummies who know what it's like! Moving house is stressful, we're doing it too in a few weeks time. Looking forward to being in a bigger place on the ground floor but not looking forward to packing and moving and unpacking. Too much hard work!
 
Sabrina, sounds like Finn is having a great time at the creche. Are you happy with the care they give him? Does he nap ok there? Sounds like they do some fun stuff there with him. Hope you have a lovely weekend. Sometimes I find it easier when OH isn't there, there's less for us to think about when planning something or even just trying to leave the house at a certain time. But, if I've had a bad night, then sometimes it's a real struggle to get through the day without him!
 
Rowan, hooray for 4 hours sleep in a row. What a result! We're going through a really difficult sleep phase with multiple wake ups some after just 45 mins. A regular block of 4 hours at a time sounds great. Hopefully this is the start of something big! That's a real shame re your parents changing their plans re looking after Martha. I think sometimes people forget what it's like to have a baby and how important it is to plan and be reliable. Right, kia has just gone to sleep at nearly midnight so it's bedtime for me too. One evening this week we got her to settle at 8pm, but she was up about 5 times that night so was still exhausting! Speak soon x
 
Sabrina, sounds like Finn is having a great time at the creche. Are you happy with the care they give him? Does he nap ok there? Sounds like they do some fun stuff there with him. Hope you have a lovely weekend. Sometimes I find it easier when OH isn't there, there's less me us to think about when planning something or even just trying to leave the house at a certain time. But, if I've had a bad night, then sometimes it's a real struggle to get through the day without him!

He naps loads and eats loads, and seems really happy -- my only complaint is that he comes back with dirty hands (from painting!) and a bit of food on his clothes BUT it's normal childhood/baby mess and I have to get used to it. What is also great is that they do loads of tummy time with him (my back is iffy at times) and he rolls over onto his tummy, head up, legs moving and then....falls back onto his butt and moves the ole butt shuffle way AND he can sit up by himself for a good minute or two and dig around in his toy box! (I sit on the floor with him inbetween my legs so if he falls, can grab, but with no support), so I am really pleased with his progress....

and kosh-- you are our thread mummy!

bedtime for me -- LO has been fussy-ish, e.g. will wake up every hour or so and cry a little, but if you put his dummy back in, he 'goes back to sleep', so whether it's developmental or teething, he's sleeping okay, but I'm not (you all know what I mean, e.g. you hear LO, you tense, you wait, you hope and then, either they wake up or settle back, and it's the few minutes each time that means it's harder for me to get back to sleep (remember I used to take sleeping tablets/sedatives and only take a half to 1/3 dose now just in case, but it also means, I never get decent sleep....

and, I fell running across the street today (running to the creche, wouldn't run if I was with LO and now, my left hand and left knee hurts (the curb was just an inch too high) and I feel sooooooooooo old....growl!

and here's another sign that I'm a mummy -- my OH is working tomorrow, but not leaving until 7.45am, so he's got LO and me, instead of up at 6.15am, I get a lie-in until 7.45am and I'm delighted!

bye!
 
Thanks ladies - were playing them at their own game got them an isofix base and some toys lol so they cant make excuses - got the stroller yest as well - its so small but cute! so they can borrow that too!

martha is napping we got all ready for the walk then I had to go to the loo and she fell asleep! lol she must have been tired!

shes been off her food the last few days - i ended up giving her biscuits yesterday just so she ate something - needless to say they were demolished! but she ate her tea yesterday yey! and was hungry this am so hopefully she'll eat more today - got dentinox gel as that can be used every 20 mins instead of bongela which is every 3 hours -hope these teeth break through soon - seems that when theyve broken the gum the pain eases a lot!
 
Hi ladies,
First week of maternity leave gone and I still feel no more ready for baby than I was this time last week. The majority of my to-do-list has not even been touched.
But one thing I have started (thanks Clio) is knitting!! And I'm loving it!! The blanket is looking really good so far - barring the dropped stitch! Will have to visit my mom to get that sorted before I can continue any further unless I can find something thin enough to do pick up the stitch that has run about 3 rows down!

Kosh - can't leave us
Moving house - good luck. I hate packing the entire house to move. I know we will have to do it soon too but hopefully that soon will only be in about 2 years time!
No way we can have a 2nd LO in this house - its just way to small. And I really don't want my kids growing up in this area. It's not exactly the best area and schools around here aren't great either.


Rowan - :grr: to parentals going back on their word! Good on you for buying all the extra stuff for them to use. Now at least they have no excuse.
YAY to 4 hours of solid sleep - sounds bliss to me even now!! And I'm still pregnant!! I can't seem to sleep that long without needing to pee!! I would kill for 4 hours sleep right now. Goodness knows what I will be like once baba is here!
FXed those next teeth cut through quickly!

Sabrina - sounds like Finn is loving nursery! Hell, I can't even just help out in the nursery at work without coming away with paint on me somewhere. If its not under my nails its all over my jumper or shirt! haha
Hope your hand and knee is feeling better soon.
YAY to the lie-in!!
 
Am falling behind again WAAH!

skweek your comment about streaky windows made me grin! I am the same! I would rather have them uniformly dirty (which they are at present) than streaky. And as for my OH, I am sure he would leave them streaky too. In fact I often wonder if so many men really are bad at housework or if they have worked out that if they do it badly, we end up doing it ourselves? This is certainly the case with us. OH would probably do more in the household if I asked him but he doesn't do it as I would so I'd rather leave it and do it myself. Odd I know.
I remember how difficult sleep was towards the end of pregnancy though I didn't have to pee that often. For me it was the constant hip pain and my carpal tunnel if I was lying on my arm for too long. And needless to say that with my enormous bump I found turning over in bed really really hard lol

clio after your answer I assessed my boys' clothes and you are right, there are a lot with trucks cars and helicopters on them. It never occurred to me before! Though mainly they tend to be on their rompers and vests (their "underthings", not sure what you call them over there) cause I usually buy those in multipacks from cheaper shops. The clothes they wear to go out with are mostly with dinosaur like monsters and animals. But on the whole we do tend to choose boyish things.
Still, I am hoping to bring them up to be helpful in the house cause it really annoyed me when I was small that in my Oma's house my brother didn't have to help at all "cause he is a boy"! And I also hated it that my other grandmother, Omi, thought I shouldn't climb trees or whistle cause I am a girl! :grr: So yeah even then I hated that chauvinistic stuff! Oh I am guessing they will learn cooking from OH cause he loves that and I loathe it lol.

kosh I've been missing you here! This thread is your baby and you cannot just leave us for good! Even if you can only check in once a while, please do so that we know how you and Gael are doing! Saying that, I really hope he is doing better? How dreadful that he was that poorly! And how exhausting for you too to get so little sleep again. I am sending you tons of :hugs:

Rowan I am sorry your parents let you down like that. In different ways my dad is like that too. He would promise one thing and then forget about it. So nowadays I am like, I believe it when I see it! :(
I hope your SPD is under control and you get to sleep a bit at night? I didn't have SPD but I remember well how difficult it was to be comfy at night as my hips hurt like crazy!
How is Martha today? Hope she ate better again and that the tooth has broken through :)

Sabrina I am glad Finn seems happy in the creche :) And I guess having dirty hands really is something we shall all have to get used to as the kids get more mobile. But I know that nothing can prepare me for the reality of two boys running in opposite directions lol. How did today go for you? Was it exhausting as you feared or was it ok? Yay for a lie in tomorrow though :)

Leeze I didn't realise Kia was such a bad sleeper. Is this new or did I somehow miss this? Her going to bed at midnight does sound very exhausting! Hope today went better. :hugs:

As for us, Dominic finally learnt to roll front to back yesterday and promptly rolled off the nursery bed when we were getting them ready for bed in the evening. He was more shocked than hurt and there isn't even a mark on him today. But my golly I thought my heart would stop at the awful bump! Poor baby! Definitely cannot take my eyes off that boy for a second any more!
Sebastian can turn front to back if we turn him on his tummy but not always and he never turns to his front on his own. But he does stretch out his arms to take stuff from us. He gets soo excited when we hold the remote of the tv even and really wants to have it and examine it. I think he is definitely ready for finger food but Dom really isn't. What a dilemma. Anyway, I bought a little cookbook by Annabel Karmel called 100 Top Finger Foods and it looks really nice. Hopefully I can get OH to make some of them or otherwise I shall have to! Shock horror! I really loathe cooking, I even prefer ironing, which is number 3 on my most hated chores list! Number 1 is cleaning the oven and number 2 is cooking. I know that is ridiculous of me but there you have it! :blush:

OH will be gone tomorrow from 8 to about 3 or 4 and I am so hoping it won't rain so that I can get out of the house. If I can take the boys to the park and there get a coffee to go, I don't mind looking after them myself for the whole day. But being stuck in the house all day by myself with them is kinda exhausting, especially if the night before was not very good. I know that sounds really terrible and I feel awful even saying it. :(

Things are ok with the kitty I guess. She is kinda wild still and it doesn't help with the bonding that when ever we try to stroke her for more than a few seconds, she starts to claw at us. She wants to play, I know but wow she isn't gentle! She actually jumped up and scratched my OH's face yesterday when he was just sitting there reading. I suppose we should play with her more but it seems the more we play the wilder she gets, till I am kinda scared that she will totally flip out. It is almost like she gets hyper on catnip. She still ignores the boys luckily and I make sure she doesn't come near them when she is in her crazy mood. I am hoping she will improve when she is allowed out. But so far we haven't really bonded enough with her that I am comfy to open the catflap for her. Btw, though we liked her immediately when we saw her, it was the ppl at the centre that said she would be suitable for us. We were actually asking for an older kitty. But I am sure in time she will improve and become more gentle :)
We are seeing the vet on Monday to have her second vaccine done and to have her stitches removed (from being spayed). Hopefully she can also recommend a different food for her cause at the moment her flatulence is astonishingly bad lol. Not sure if it is the dry food or the Whiskas kitten food that is causing it.

Right, I am off to bed in a mo hopefully cause I have night duty tonight and I want a bit of sleep before I have to get up to feed them again at midnight.
Hope everyone is well. xxxx
 
Hello ladies,

Sorry I have not been posting very much lately but I am reading all your posts just don't have time to post back. My sister is still here but my dad left back to brazil :cry:. When my sister leaves and my husband finds a job the house is going to feel so empty :cry:. Got used to all this craziness around us!

Thiago is doing good although he has been teething ( like most of our LO). The 30 to 45 min naps are back :growlmad: and he has been waking up more often during the night too :growlmad:. He has been drulling soooooo much! Cannot tell what teeth is coming in because he does not like when I try to open his mouth :shrug:.

Another thing that thiago is into is walking while you hold his hands. He loves it!!! It was not my idea because I knew if we started that he would just want to keep going and I really want him to crawl but family members started with the walking so I am going with the flow. He is still doing the had on the ground butty up kind of crawling. Really hope he gets that head up and get the arm and hands movement. His sitting is great! He goes from his belly to a sitted position with no problem or assistance.

Oh, and I kind of feel bad but we have been doing the simple songs on the iPad at restaurants and car rides. Kind of worried that we are using to much tv screen time for him but when he watches his little videos we can eat at restaurants and he doesn't cry in the car ride ( he still hates car seats, high chair ( getting a little bett at this one) and stroller). We bring toys too but after a while he wants to be picked up and we have to use the iPad and put the simple songs videos to settle him :dohh:!

Sabrina: yeah for been happy back to work:). I think that we all need a little time away from LO even if it is just an hour or so. It is good for us and for them:).

Skwekk: are you getting anxious? When is your baby due again? Are you sick of being pregnant? :haha:

Kosh: please don't leave :cry:. I am afraid that our little group will slowly go away because some of us will be busy with work and LOs. But we don't care if you don't respond to our questions :). Just tell us how are you and Gael are doing:).

Leeze: :hugs:To you. I don't know how you function with the lack of sleep. Do you nap when Kia sleeps?

Angel: yeah for those cute little teeth:). Hope they will all come like a breeze:). You deserve it:). How is Dominic sleep these days?

Clio: when do you go back to work? Is it part time?

Rowan: sorry to hear your parents are letting you down! And about cleaning the house we have cleaning ladies that come 2 times a month. I told my hubby that they are the last thing I will give up! I love them :haha:!!! Worth every penny!!!

Feel good that I got to say hello. Talk to you soon:)!
 
So, yesterday morning (Sat) was like being back on maternity leave, e.g. alone with LO from about 8am and you know what? I missed work a little -- so even though it is hard getting up the ordinary morning, I know he's being stimulated at creche with loads of activities and then we have all afternoon together. Yesterday, I had run out of things to do by 5, whereas now back at work, I run out of things to do around 7-8pm...LOL!

angel- hope you're surviving/have survived OH's absence today. My OH and I were talking about 'what if' we had had twins, and decided that you are a saint!
barboleta - at least you have your sister around for the moment! and yeah, thiago for almost walking! Finn is still a bum shuffler, but it is cute!
rowan- we also have a cleaner come twice a month (not October as am broke, but she's very understanding and will return in November -- she also babysits for us as Finn loves her!)
skweek - try to organise as much as possible (this is when the OH has to do loads, e.g. I moved bookcases into another room (well, he moved the bookcases) and generally IKEA-fied parts of the house so I would have less stress with cleaning later, etc. as for sleep, LO's head was on my bladder from about wk20, so I always had to go to the bathroom -- it was so great after he was born as I could pee and pee and then....go to sleep....! (or try to sleep with a newborn....)
clio - where are you?
kosh - even a little peek in is good!

OH is NOT working today (yeah!), but is still sleeping (10am) - nice, huh? and my LO slept from 11pm-ish (we'd been trying since about 9, tho) to about 8 am, but I woke up sore and achey (remember I fell on Friday?), so feel old, old, old!

talk to everybody later.

bye!!!!!!!!!
 
I keep looking through the posts for my replies, and you're right, SK, I don't have any. Apparently I start them, then erase them because they are so old by the time I return to them.

So first, because there are so many personals to respond to, I'm going to be selfish and get my As For Me done first.

AFM--So, in yet another fit of worry, I dragged my (skeptical) OH to the bookstore to buy J different books (he's had the ones he's currently got since he was 2 months, when I had great plans for my new little reader. :dohh:) We all know about the library fiasco and I have actually calculated that it is cheaper for me to buy him books than pay fines.

So, as per your recommendations, I got him two "That's not my" books: Teddy and Tiger. (The only other available one was "That's Not My Tractor," and you know how I feel about tractors...) And I got him three Sandra Boynton books that are illustrated versions of three of the songs we listen to. Well, he has no interest whatsoever in the "song" books, but he likes to pet the furry stuff on the animals. But it's kind of like it was with that first touchy-feely book, the zoo one. There he was only interested in Elephant, and here, he is only interested in touching the bear with the velcro toes and the tiger's corrugated teeth. Then he loses interest and goes to stare at himself in my black computer screen and wave at himself. Maybe he'll be a model instead? I've heard that books are not essential to succeed in that industry.

But, he has taken his first steps! OH and I continued to practice balance with him and yesterday we managed to get him to take a few steps towards us. Then today, he made up a game where he has to go quickly around the (large) coffee table, stop when he got to me, and then try and walk to me. Then I have to turn him around again, get him balanced on his feet and then he tries to walk to the table and back he goes to circling it.

I looked it on Doctor Google how long it can take after he took his first steps, but it appears that this can go on for months.

Okay, I'm about to fall asleep, so personals will have to wait. :sleep:
 
evening ladies, your comments really touched me, thanks :hugs:
ok, i'll try not to leave for good, but i really don't think i'll be able to keep up with questions and comments...

things are not improving at our end. don't know what it was with that nasty cold, but everything went pear-shaped. he doesn't seem to enjoy his bath anymore,and he used to love them! :shrug:
his sleep is terrible,and i'm exhausted and almost depressed. i was sooo tired this morning that i didn't hear him waking up and then i heard a loud thump!
yep, he'd fallen off the bed. :nope: luckily he didn't hurt himself, only got scared.

again, hope you're all doing better than us! :winkwink:
 
evening ladies, your comments really touched me, thanks :hugs:
ok, i'll try not to leave for good, but i really don't think i'll be able to keep up with questions and comments...

things are not improving at our end. don't know what it was with that nasty cold, but everything went pear-shaped. he doesn't seem to enjoy his bath anymore,and he used to love them! :shrug:
his sleep is terrible,and i'm exhausted and almost depressed. i was sooo tired this morning that i didn't hear him waking up and then i heard a loud thump!
yep, he'd fallen off the bed. :nope: luckily he didn't hurt himself, only got scared.

again, hope you're all doing better than us! :winkwink:

Oh kosh so sorry Gael is still not feeling himself. How long has it been? Can you take him to the doctor for a follow up? And I bet you got scared when he felt out of bed. I told my husband that from now on when thiago comes to bed with us around 5am he needs to stay in our bed so thiago is surrounded :haha:. Our bed is really high off the floor and we just have wood floors. So probably would not be a good fall!!
 
evening ladies, your comments really touched me, thanks :hugs:
ok, i'll try not to leave for good, but i really don't think i'll be able to keep up with questions and comments...

things are not improving at our end. don't know what it was with that nasty cold, but everything went pear-shaped. he doesn't seem to enjoy his bath anymore,and he used to love them! :shrug:
his sleep is terrible,and i'm exhausted and almost depressed. i was sooo tired this morning that i didn't hear him waking up and then i heard a loud thump!
yep, he'd fallen off the bed. :nope: luckily he didn't hurt himself, only got scared.

again, hope you're all doing better than us! :winkwink:

Oh kosh so sorry Gael is still not feeling himself. How long has it been? Can you take him to the doctor for a follow up? And I bet you got scared when he felt out of bed. I told my husband that from now on when thiago comes to bed with us around 5am he needs to stay in our bed so thiago is surrounded :haha:. Our bed is really high off the floor and we just have wood floors. So probably would not be a good fall!!

Please don't leave for good! Remember, you are our thread mother. You started a community. We will always want to know what's going on with you, and don't worry about responding to us! You've done something very awesome here. You created a community here of like women. You've done that with the sleep thread, too.

Why won't people help you with Gael? What does he have, exactly? A really bad cold? Or worse? If it makes you feel any better, J took a header over the arm of the couch the other day when I wasn't looking. Scared the hell out of me.

I'm sorry it's so rough, and you are often in my thoughts. :flower:
 
Just wanted to say hi! Still having rough nights and exhausted. Kia went to sleep last night at 1.45am. For those who asked, she's always been hard to settle at bedtime, with her time of going to sleep normally somewhere between 9pm and midnight. In the past, she would then normally wake once or twice briefly and otherwise sleep until about 8.30. For the last month or so, she's been waking up to 5 or 6 times and sometimes awake for up to 2 hours when she does wake up. I thinkit's related to teething and developmental spurts, but she's also had a bad cold for just over a week. I'm feeling so tired and struggling a bit to stay sane. Sometimes I lie down with her for daytime naps and occasionally catch up a little this way. Or I'll have a little nap in the evening when OH gets home. Kosh, I'm very pleased to hear you're not leaving us. I'm going through a lot of the same anxieties as you re work and nursery so hopefully we can offer each other a bit of support with that. Sorry guys but my brain has gone numb and I can't remember what else I wanted to say. Plus Kia ha miraculously fallen asleep really quickly again. Oh, just one thing - re car journeys. Was it Borboleta who said these are tough for LO? We discovered LO was getting too hot in her carseat so we dress her lightly when going in the car. Also, if the seat still has the infant insert then take it out as this adds to heat. Finally, we play kiddies songs and sing along and do actions etc and let her hold the mini speakers. It's completely changed car journeys for us, doing these 3 things x
 
hey ladies - quick visit as martha is asleep (only had 20 mins up to now today after not much last night) and i have so much to do - gah crappy nights continue bloomin teeth - but no sign of the cuplrits still!

well done j on walking :)

leeze hope you have better nights sleep soon

borboleta thiago is doing so well!

kosh hope gael gets better soon

sorry if ive missed anyone!

were pootling marthas speech is coming on, shes walking holding on with one hand now and keeps standing alone for a bit, getting braver! she also wants to crawl under everything so am going to buy her a tunnel this week - she wants to feed herself more and more and yes ive given in and gave her chocolate!

glad to hear people have cleaners :) we'll give it another month and see if my folks do help more then we'll get one!

not sure if Im wearing my si belt right...will ask dr google
 
Nothing much here -- LO has a bit of a sore bum, discovered that the wet wipes (which make my hands itch) may be causing him problems (they were the back of the cupboard ones that I never liked), so my OH had to stock up on our usuals -- LOL! I have really sensitive skin, so test everything for LO on me first, e.g. face cream, washing powder, etc., but the wipes which we normally use, we had run out of, so I used these others and ....poor, sore bum for LO and itchy, red hands for me!

work okay -- morning 'rush' wasn't too bad today, now that my OH is getting up earlier (e.g. same time as me, so we both have a chance to shower, etc)....

can't think of anything else....um....

bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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