Breastfeeding guilt trip at every opportunity?!

[petite ping]

Breast is best only if the mother eats a balanced diet. After all what you eat your baby will eat. There have been cases of babies dying of malnutrition because their mothers were vegan or on restricted diets and were

I wasn't going to reply to this thread but I couldn't leave this alone, this is simply not true, babies do not die from malnourished diets of the mother, the diet of the mother would have to be so poor she would be on death's door herself this wouldn't be true in the western world, many malnourished women in third world countries successfully raise babies to toddlers on breast milk (when nestle isn't interfering....) Due to the composition of breastmilk it is live cells, anti bodies etc, the very nature of that in itself will always make breast milk better than formula, even if the mother has a poor diet, it's widely known medical professionals would prefer a smoker to still BF than FF. Absolutely diet and quality of milk is linked, the better your diet the better your milk, it isn't something harped on about too much because they don't want to put women off more, and because they know even if you're obese, even if you drink litres of coke a day, your breast milk is better that formula because it has ingredients formula doesn't have (and probably won't ever have), formula simply doesn't have the live, natural ingredients breast milk has and there is no skirting around that no matter how much it can offend. Does that make formula evil? No of course not, there is nothing bad in formula, it's widely known it actually can have more basic nutrients in it after 6 months if the mother's diet isn't adequate, it is a satisfactory substitute but it's what it lacks that will always make it less ideal.

I say this as a now FF mum, I wasn't going to reply because I have nothing to say in threads like this, I BF both my boys till they were 8/9 months, combi fed from about 6 months and then completely FF beyond the 8/9 month mark and am completely satisitifed in my decisions so don't feel the need to get defensive either way, both sides experience issues, but let's keep it factual.

But honestly this all blows over, BF vs FF seems like the centre of the universe at the beginning for you and those around you, but once you're past 6 months, certainly a year I find it's all completely forgotten! For most I hope anyway, I know it must be difficult when it feels like choices were taken from us.

Actually I didn't make this one up. In 2007, there was a case of a EBF baby dying of malnutrition because the mother was vegan - I remember it being on the news.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/vegans-trial-death-baby-breast-milk

I understand that this is an extreme case but it does show that nutrition in breastmilk does depend on what the mother's diet.

 

[leash27]

From reading that article, it would seem those parents were guilty of a lot more than just following a vegan diet.

"The couple did not follow the doctor's advice to take the baby to hospital when they went for her nine-month checkup and found she was suffering from bronchitis and was losing weight," he said. Instead they treated her with cabbage poultices, mustard and camphor and washed her with earth and clay instead of giving her baths, the court heard."

X

 

[Pearls18]

And the baby was 11 months only getting breast milk nothing else, you can not make up facts from one article from the Guardian you've completely inferred your own story there.

 

[wookie130]

And the baby was 11 months only getting breast milk nothing else, you can not make up facts from one article from the Guardian you've completely inferred your own story there.

I thought breast milk was perfect food for babies? Why would a baby need anything else? So...breast milk can be an incomplete diet for babies over 6 months if they are not receiving other nutrients from solids? Hmmm. That is what I'm gleaning here.

Look, it's human milk. It's not made from unicorn farts and magic dust from woodland sprites, blessed by monks on ancient ruins. It's human milk, and yes, it does have it's benefits. In industrialized developed nations, where we have access to clean and safe water that can be used to prepare formula safely, however, the benefits of breast milk are NOT monumental compared to formula (regardless of what x, y, and z states...check the data behind x, y, and z, and know that there are a lot of confounders in these studies that have mucked up the reported "findings." In fact, in said-countries where formula is a safe option, the only real difference in a breastfed baby is less incidences of diarrhea and ear infections in the first 2 years of life.

So, let's just all respect that formula feeding is not only "fine"...but it's great, and feeds and nourishes babies perfectly well. No reason to feel guilty there.

Me, I'm fine feeding my babies the "poison in a can." And you can bet your happy ass I love my kids as much as anyone.

 

[Pearls18]

And the baby was 11 months only getting breast milk nothing else, you can not make up facts from one article from the Guardian you've completely inferred your own story there.

I thought breast milk was perfect food for babies? Why would a baby need anything else? So...breast milk can be an incomplete diet for babies over 6 months if they are not receiving other nutrients from solids? Hmmm. That is what I'm gleaning here.

Look, it's human milk. It's not made from unicorn farts and magic dust from woodland sprites, blessed by monks on ancient ruins. It's human milk, and yes, it does have it's benefits. In industrialized developed nations, where we have access to clean and safe water that can be used to prepare formula safely, however, the benefits of breast milk are NOT monumental compared to formula (regardless of what x, y, and z states...check the data behind x, y, and z, and know that there are a lot of confounders in these studies that have mucked up the reported "findings." In fact, in said-countries where formula is a safe option, the only real difference in a breastfed baby is less incidences of diarrhea and ear infections in the first 2 years of life.

So, let's just all respect that formula feeding is not only "fine"...but it's great, and feeds and nourishes babies perfectly well. No reason to feel guilty there.

Me, I'm fine feeding my babies the "poison in a can." And you can bet your happy ass I love my kids as much as anyone.

I'm not going to argue the benefits of breastfeeding, you can down play it as much as you want, if you've read what I've read, studied what I have, you would not be downplaying it like you are. I will never put formula anywhere near the level of breast milk because I have read the science, I don't bring emotion into it, I have given formula to my children and am happily FF my 9 month old but I am not blind to the fact I could be giving them better and I won't make excuses for it, I know why we are doing it this way and I am comfortable with that fact.

No milk only food is a complete food at 11 months that's why we start weaning before then, that was my point, breast milk is sufficient as the only source of food (same as with formula) until around 6 months (I know some people will say longer), it's not surprising an 11month old wasn't getting enough nutrition from milk alone it would have been very little to do with the fact the mum was a vegan (and as I said in my previous post it's widely known BFers are often recommended to give vitamin drops to babies after 6 months because if the woman isn't getting a good diet the stores from pregnancy have depleted by 6 months so just to be extra safe they can give drops to babies, so yeah not perfect I guess!!!), however, there is never anything you can substitute to a formula fed baby to give the antibodies that breastmilk will continue to give however long they continue, fact, nothing more, nothing less, not a dig, not a win, just a fact.

Why are you getting so defensive, I didn't say poison in a can? Ive stated absolutely nothing but facts and said that based on the facts I am happy to FF but at least I acknowledge there are short comings, all parts of parenting will be a compromise? You're the one who has brought up saying formula is poison in a can I've not seen anyone else use that language (the opposite to what I have stated numerous times) and gone as far as to say you love your children as much as anyone else, you're putting words in other people's mouths to make us sound like we're being unreasonable, harsh, don't let negative experiences tar all facts on feeding as being derogatory to formula feeding and putting breastfeeding on a pedestal, as I always say we need to stop saying breast is best, stop making it out to be this amazing thing, it's normal, nothing more, nothing less, then maybe this defensive attitude and sensational sarcasm can come to a halt.

 

[wookie130]

MarineWag, I have indeed read about all there is to read on the purported benefits of breastfeeding, and I am not downplaying the benefits of BM. They are indeed overstated, particularly in the long-term health and well-being of children. So, what are these studies you've read, the science? Because I PROMISE and can guarantee I can deliver on sharing with you and all others what I'm talking about. Again, breastfeeding has it's advantages...but they are short-lived, make very little difference in the long-term, and those benefits are grossly overstated.

 

[wookie130]

I'm not defensive at all...the poison in a can statement wasn't aimed at you. It was a jab at the overall sentiment toward formula that we see at this point in time. Other people would call it sarcasm, but that apparently translated poorly in my post. This is a subject very near and dear to me, and it breaks my heart that women feel the need to denigrade the choices of other mothers, which happens, in abundance. Women are paying dearly for this, and it's horrible!

 

[Pearls18]

No you're exactly right Wookie I agree with you in regards to how badly this topic is dividing women, I guess my stance is yes breast milk is better than formula it just is, whether you believe all the studies (actually I very much agree with you that I think the long term benefits are very much over stated, it's one of the reasons why for me my minimum goal was 6 months and why I have no guilt in stopping, I do believe continuing would have been better but not enough to convince me it was overall the best decision, I do however believe the early months for preparing the digestive system BM largely outweighs formula, I am a trained Bf supporter, I was trained by an NHS feeding support specialist for our borough and who is also a lactation consultant, I had training given to medical professionals despite not being medical myself, I don't want to go into a study war, you're happy with what you know, I'm happy with what I know let's leave it at that). I don't believe breastfed children are mother-loving-size-0-rocket-scientists waiting to happen, I cringe when a new study comes out because I do feel like a lot of the time they find out very useless things that probably won't factor into a woman's decision at the time and only apply pressure and guilt.

But I think part of empowering women is to say "yeah you know what BM is better for [whatever], but that doesn't mean BF is still right for you, yes you won't get x,y and z, but you will get x, y, and z" let's not cover up our decisions in excuses, let's not slander the other side, let's not take things to heart (that last one is the hardest I know) and just own our choices.

As soon as we are happy in our decisions we won't care what's written on a formula can or when the 80 year old asks us if we're breastfeeding. We need to stop turning on each other, breast milk is great for a lot of things and it will trump formula in many ways, but formula trumps breastfeeding too because otherwise there wouldn't be so many of us doing it.

We should never have to apologise for ourselves when we're all just trying to get through this amazing a turbulent journey of parenthood. Period.

 

[Pearls18]

Also, just to add, one thing that has calmed me down from my breastfeeding is awesome mantra is my children, I fed them identically almost- EBF 6 months, weaned 6 months, then combi fed, then FF 8/9 months, and they are sooooo different in terms of health and immunity, but still my decisions were my own and I'm ok with that.

 

[redneckhippy]

I disagree with the whole "formula is marketed to the poor" thing, and I do feel that's an argument that lactivists commonly use to further the indoctrination of women to all move their feeding decisions toward breastfeeding...it's just another thing that brainwashes women into thinking that "Big Formula" is working in conjunction with food assistance programs such as WIC to promote their agenda, and discourage breastfeeding.

Ummm...WRONG! Breastfeeding has clearly become the "trendy" option, and is pushed heavily upon EVERYONE who has a baby, poor, or not. It is most commonly discussed across blogs, in magazine articles, and in all of the fun "extras" associated with breastfeeding...the general assumption across most mediums is that women will be nursing, or at least attempting to once their babies are born. There is a World Breastfeeding Day (or is it week? Where's the World Formula Feeding Day? Oh...wait...anyway, anyone with a Facebook account is aware of the breastfeeding day), and it's become quite a splash to go to nurse-ins, public breastfeeding groups, etc. It's almost a social expectation, really. Also, shall we talk about the various celebrity endorsements aimed at breastfeeding? The pictures of various supermodels riding MOTORCYCLES and HORSES while nursing their babies??? (Gisele, to be specific.) All of the beautiful and wealthy people are doing it, so the rest of us should be also! The photographer I use to do my kids' baby pictures is now doing discounted special "nursing photo shoots" (that are NOT CHEAP, mind you), to capture that special breastfeeding bond on film. Have you picked up a copy of "Parents" magazine recently? Most articles are geared toward nursing mothers, with the occasional "or if you're formula feeding" comment tossed in here and there as an afterthought.

The sacred cow of parenting currently is a woman's ability and willingness to breastfeed, plain and simple. I truly fail to see how even poor women can escape the rhetoric that is shoved down their throats in doctor's offices, reading material, the internet (which yes, even poor people often have access to), television, etc., etc. Clearly, everyone CAN breastfeed, right? (WRONG!) And so everyone SHOULD, right? (WRONG!)

Look, as I said before, the health benefits are often overstated. There are benefits, yes, but women are being taught to literally martyr themselves for the cause (yes, that's right...the inability to breastfeed is now being closely associated with severe PND, and feelings of worthlessness as a mother), that they are miserable, and thereby sad. How is THAT good for the bond between mother and child? Crying all of the time? Self-loathing? Yeah, it happens, and it's not because deep down they know all of the hoopla about breastfeeding is "right." It is because SOCIETY (other women, mainly) is pooping on women for the choices they make, and apparently there is only one right way to feed an infant, lest your child grow up with a lower IQ, diabetes, and obese. No, even the socioeconomically-challenged among us do not escape these messages, sadly.

I think it really depends on your area. Like I said, where I live (rural Ohio) it most DEFINATELY is marketed to low-income women. I don't know ANYONE who breastfeeds and everyone I talk to just assumes I will formula feed because that's what everyone does here. Everyone is on WIC and they get free formula. At the OBs office there are all these adds for formula and coupons. Nobody has even asked me if I want to breastfeed or suggested anything to support me in it and I know people will think I'm a weirdo for doing it. Im sure in other areas breastfeeding is pushed more, but in my area at least, I don't think the majority of women even consider breastfeeding or know anyone who breastfed their child.

 

[redneckhippy]

Also, to be clear, I'm not anti-formula. My baby will (hoefully) be breastfed for the first 6 months, then switched to formula because we will be moving so I can go to school full time and he will be in daycare. What I'm saying is we tend to assume that everyone has the level of knowledge we do and does the research and it feels like a slap in the face to hear these messages, but the truth is that in many areas of the US (probably other countries too, I just don't know) women do not know that breastfeeding is better and are not making informed decisions. It may seem impossible to believe that from your persepctive with all the info you see everywhere, but it's absolutely the truth. And if they don't have these "campaigns" where are these girls ever going to hear the message?

I mean, I'm sure it would seem shocking to most people on here to put soda in a baby's bottle right? You probably think "everybody" knows not to put soda in a baby's bottle? But I see it all. the. time. I wish I was exagerating but I'm not. People think it's totally fine to just pour some Mountain Dew or Pepsi in the baby's bottle. It takes everything in me not to flip out when I see it, but it's not my business. But the point is, if people don't know that babies shouldn't be given Mountain Dew in their bottle, then do you really think they know the studies on formula feeding vs breastfeeding or are they just picking up their formula coupons at the WIC office and never giving it another thought.

 

[Rcx]

I obviously didn't mean for this thread to turn in to another massive BFvFF debate, I just wanted to share my thoughts and worries with some ladies on here who mightve experienced that guilt & upset at these messages on the tin. A lot of the posts in here have made me feel bad about my decision again.
I appreciate people saying that they have to do it (I know this) but I'm more upset that the government has these guidlines to again make you feel guilty.
Hopefully ill feel better about I as time goes on like a few have said but this topic hasn't exactly helped much !
Clearly this is too controversial a topic to even ask for a bit of support/have a little rant on!

 

[leash27]

Unfortunately, these type of threads often evoke strong emotions from both FF and BF mums. However, I think overall the general consensus here has been that you definitely shouldn't feel guilty at all for making the choice that you have and that the most important thing is that your LO is being fed. As a PP has said, the messages on the tins are most likely a legal requirement for the formula companies and are not intended to make anyone feel bad about a choice the have made.

X

 

[sethsmummy]

I obviously didn't mean for this thread to turn in to another massive BFvFF debate, I just wanted to share my thoughts and worries with some ladies on here who mightve experienced that guilt & upset at these messages on the tin. A lot of the posts in here have made me feel bad about my decision again.
I appreciate people saying that they have to do it (I know this) but I'm more upset that the government has these guidlines to again make you feel guilty.
Hopefully ill feel better about I as time goes on like a few have said but this topic hasn't exactly helped much !
Clearly this is too controversial a topic to even ask for a bit of support/have a little rant on!

im sorry hun obviously people have just decided to ignore your main post. yes you posters were maybe trying to be helpful but the numerous posts outlining how bf is better than ff for anti-bodies etc, however true... have just been making the op feel even worse! thats not what she needs nor wanted to here. she wanted some support from women whod experienced the same situation as her.

op im sending you love and hugs xxxx

 

[Pearls18]

Oh for goodness sake how will this debate ever move on (generally speaking) if we can't call a spade a spade?

I AM A FORMULA FEEDING MOTHER BUT I KNOW BREASTFEEDING WOULD BE BETTER!!!!

Big deal, who sounds the happiest and most secure in this thread? I'm not sat here saying the government is out to guilt trip me.

You're formula feeding, big deal, own it, I bet your kid is happy and healthy, now to make yourself happy and put your fingers up to those who genuinely guilt trip you and just accept facts when the government is out doing their job trying to keep the nation healthy, the sooner you realise those who promote BF aren't out to get you and only you the better you will feel about your own decisions. If you want to self wallow that's your business, but I actually think you're doing a great job just as I think I am doing, do I have to believe breastfeeding is overrated to think that? No I don't.

 

[sethsmummy]

Oh for goodness sake how will this debate ever move on (generally speaking) if we can't call a spade a spade?

I AM A FORMULA FEEDING MOTHER BUT I KNOW BREASTFEEDING WOULD BE BETTER!!!!

Big deal, who sounds the happiest and most secure in this thread? I'm not sat here saying the government is out to guilt trip me.

You're formula feeding, big deal, own it, I bet your kid is happy and healthy, now to make yourself happy and put your fingers up to those who genuinely guilt trip you and just accept facts when the government is out doing their job trying to keep the nation healthy, the sooner you realise those who promote BF aren't out to get you and only you the better you will feel about your own decisions. If you want to self wallow that's your business, but I actually think you're doing a great job just as I think I am doing, do I have to believe breastfeeding is overrated to think that? No I don't.

your doing it again. NOT what is helpful for goodness sake. your whole attitude on this is actually horrible. OP DID NOT WANT A DARN DEBATE SHE WANTS SUPPORT!!!

It doesnt matter that you are happy and secure in your choice and dont feel guilty... the op does, and is therefore looking for support from like minded women not having it shoved down her throat in every post that bf is better!!

 

[petite ping]

Ahhh Sethsmummy is right. Back to the original post.

I believe that it is government policy to promote BF no matter what country you are in. BF was not really promoted until recently - my MIL and her friends were encouraged to FF. I think that the pushiness of some pro BF promoters has gotten some FF mom's backs up whether it is forums or in maternities or wherever.

The messages on the milk tins are a legal obligation - just like in France it is illegal to promote stage 1 milks. Even on the websites of formula manufacturers (in France) there is no information on stage 1 milks and a lot of info on BF.

I think the lack of objective information on the feeding choices makes FF moms feel like they are doing something "wrong" as there is little or no information on FF. Even when new moms are really really struggling the BF, health visitors and MWs tend to tell moms to keep on trying instead of really listening and discussing other possible options - I don't know if there is an obligation for them to do that.

What is true was that guilt-tripping does come from other people. Some of my friends who decided to FF before giving birth said that the MWs really put the pressure on them to BF in the prenatal classes and after giving birth and some of the hardcore lactivist reactions on the forums whenever they asked questions on feeding choices made them feel as if they had only one possible choice.

I don't have a problem with BF. I do have a problem with feeling pressured into doing something - it automatically gets my hackles up.

 

[wookie130]

How the hell would anyone know if they're the "happiest and most secure" in here? And by saying that, you're assuming I am not happy or whatever? How is that remotely relevant to the discussion of guilt, and how the lactivist rhetoric shames women who formula feeds? Because they do! I made no mention of "the government", either...unless you feel the MEDIA is the government, which it isn't, which was what I was referring to earlier.

Breastfeeding ISN'T best for everyone. It's only best, if it's BEST for you, your baby, and the situation. And that isn't true for everyone, and it doesn't matter anyway. What right do lactivists have making formula feeding women feel less-than? They don't, yet it happens DAILY.

 

[leash27]

I believe MarineWAG is referring to the legal requirement to have BF messages on formula tins etc when she is talking about the government. This is where the OP started isn't it? I also think she is referring to OP when she is talking about being 'happy and secure' since it would seem that she isn't from what she has written.

Unfortunately, this is a debate that is never going to end as we will always have some women who BF and some women who FF. Having done both, I know there are pros and cons to each and ultimately the decision has to come down to what is right for you and your family. There should be no guilt or shame in anything we do as parents providing we are doing the best we can do for our children.

X

 

[Ummi2boyz]

I haven't read all the posts, just the first page.

I just wanted to give some encouragement to the OP.

I have been where you are atm, it's a tough place but it does get better. But you must not let it get to you (the fact that you breastfee for a week or the messages on website for example). Because, yes breast is best, but as a mum YOU did what is best for YOUR baby.
We, when pregnant think bf is all natural or that it will come naturally. The fact is it used to be natural, but it is not anymore because in our societies we haven't grown up with mums, unties, sisters, neighbours well all the women in the community really breastfeeding. So it has become harder for us.

I bf'ed ds1 for 2 weeks and then I had to give him formula. I was litterally depressed by it and crying all the time. He is actually a healthy almost 12 year old boy, and even though if I could change things I would, But I can't and there is no reason to dwell on that now as he is as healthy as any other boy his age.
And yes you CAN bond with your baby even when bottle fed. You know that it is was the right choice for you and baby. So concentrate on your wellbeing to tyou both and you'll be fine.
Also, and I say that to everyone who has the same issue, you did not "only manage to bf for a week", no, you succeeded in breastfeeding for a week. That makes all the difference.
One last thing, I bf'ed ds2 for 23 months, so that doesn't mean you'll never bf again. I have a friend who has 8 children, bless her. She had some breastfed for 18 months, some who had formula after a month and even some who never took the breast (it's not in order, the one who took only formula is in the middle). Every child is different even in the same family.

You're doing good by your child and that 's what matters.