Debate: Capital punishment

[babyblog]

To the above. It doesn't matter that crime you have commited, you have broken the law and should be punished. You shouldn't just be taken into something that appears like a home from home. It's not right, it's not just and it's not punishment.

And tbh, who cares if they serve hard time. Hell mend them. Should have stayed on the straight and narrow. Tax payers should not have to pay money to make the lives of prisoners easy.

Oh and open jails are a joke. A year or so ago a man broke out from a scottish open prison, he was a known rapist but put in there because it was near the end of his sentence. He escaped, got to my home town, raped a school girl and beat her with a hammer. This wouldn't of happened had there of been no open prisons and stricter release terms - no early release for 'good' behaviour etc.

Of course it makes a difference what crime you have committed! Some people do find themselves in custody for minor offences, especially women-and a high majority of these women are victims of abuse/DV which has lead to drug addictions and financial instability. You think someone who has committed a minor shoplifting offence should be in the same category prison as someone who has committed far worse a crime?

'There but for the grace of God go i'

You don't need to 'break out' of an open prison-they are open, hence the fact most inmates walk out each day to go to work and are trusted to return in the evenings. Break a rule and you are back inside and back to Cat A prison. The example you have given above, whilst disturbing, is extreme. Most prisoners in an open prison have served their sentences well, which is why they are given the privilege of moving to open conditions.

I think it would be far worse for someone to go straight from a Cat A to release as they have had no time to be tested with trust or allowed to re-integrate into society. This way prisoners can get back into employment, build up their relationships with their families and have a menaningful existence which is far more likely to keep them on the straight and narrow. Yes things go wrong, yes sometimes people re-offend, but you can bet that they wil get longer sentences the next time.

On a different note-life does mean life-but it means subject to a life licence, not usually a lifetime in prison. It is a lack of people's understanding. Once 'life' prisoners are released they live a life licence, subject to Home Office rules and regs and can be supervised by probation officers.

Back to the topic-i don't agree with capital punishment,simply for the fact that mistakes can happen-which is why it was stopped in the first place.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

My sisters brother has got life. And he will be on a license if released. But for what he did to another human being I think they should have locked him up and thrown away the key.

I think when prisoners come up for parole when they have commited a crime such as murder, some of them can be very clever. Like take gareth for example he says he has turnedto god.. I just sit there thinking I hoep tehy see through you. As at the beginning of teh trail he set his cell alight and tried to tell the judge the 'voices' told him to do it. After several physiatric assesments he was found to be mentally sound. Now I can see him trying to pull tricks when he comes up for parole and I am sure many others do.

I think for him and others that have commited such a crime as murder and in such a brutal way, then life should mean life impsonment. But i gues I would say that as I am petrfied he will try and make contact
xx

 

[buttonnose82]

To the above. It doesn't matter that crime you have commited, you have broken the law and should be punished. You shouldn't just be taken into something that appears like a home from home. It's not right, it's not just and it's not punishment.

And tbh, who cares if they serve hard time. Hell mend them. Should have stayed on the straight and narrow. Tax payers should not have to pay money to make the lives of prisoners easy.

Oh and open jails are a joke. A year or so ago a man broke out from a scottish open prison, he was a known rapist but put in there because it was near the end of his sentence. He escaped, got to my home town, raped a school girl and beat her with a hammer. This wouldn't of happened had there of been no open prisons and stricter release terms - no early release for 'good' behaviour etc.

The whole justice system is a joke imo. you say this man was near his release date so chances are some horrific incident like this may have happened eventually anyway regardless of his escape. I hope Mr Cameron sorts this out. Well the best he can anyway

With the massive cuts they are making to the justice system, things will get worse, not better.

ETA - I wonder where most people have their perceptions of prison from? Presumably, in most cases it's from the mass media ect, rather than actually having any knowledge of prison itself. I really, really don't understand where the holiday camp analogy comes from, other than the Daily Express. In high sec. prisons, all the suggestions which are being said already happen

I got my perception (and since i haven't been in prison myself i can only go off what i read from official sources) for a wide range of sources, for example reading the HM prison service website ....... even if it is really bad inside those 4 walls, they make it sound like some kind of holiday camp almost! gyms, sporting activities, basic education but also open university degrees, prison shops, Acupuncture, some are entitled to kitchens to prepare their own food, some are entitled to in cell tv's, some are entitled to voluntary drugs tests - to name but a few things ...... and this is a category A prison which is meant to be for the most severe offenders

 

[buttonnose82]

grrr double post!

 

[rubixcyoob.]

but thats what does happen in these prisons?? i dont understand why you think it doesnt as i said before they only get the luxries on remand and when they start to drop levels! they have to work all day to ear money for phone calls or earn money to buy choclate or pop they all have the same prison tracksuit ect1

the only reason certain people have more treats in prison is because off the srcews and drugs being sold on wings!

Who really cares if they have to work to earn their way of life? It's the same for people on the outside, why should it change because they go to jail? They should be made to work much harder for their stuff imo, instead of just in the kitchens, laundry room etc.

With the massive cuts they are making to the justice system, things will get worse, not better.

ETA - I wonder where most people have their perceptions of prison from? Presumably, in most cases it's from the mass media ect, rather than actually having any knowledge of prison itself. I really, really don't understand where the holiday camp analogy comes from, other than the Daily Express. In high sec. prisons, all the suggestions which are being said already happen

I got my perception of prison from a prison guard in Barlinnie prison, and ex in Perth prison and HMP Scotland websites.
However, I did say I acknowledged that these were low catagory prisons and therefore not the same as high catagory prisons.

Of course it makes a difference what crime you have committed! Some people do find themselves in custody for minor offences, especially women-and a high majority of these women are victims of abuse/DV which has lead to drug addictions and financial instability. You think someone who has committed a minor shoplifting offence should be in the same category prison as someone who has committed far worse a crime?

'There but for the grace of God go i'

You don't need to 'break out' of an open prison-they are open, hence the fact most inmates walk out each day to go to work and are trusted to return in the evenings. Break a rule and you are back inside and back to Cat A prison. The example you have given above, whilst disturbing, is extreme. Most prisoners in an open prison have served their sentences well, which is why they are given the privilege of moving to open conditions.

I think it would be far worse for someone to go straight from a Cat A to release as they have had no time to be tested with trust or allowed to re-integrate into society. This way prisoners can get back into employment, build up their relationships with their families and have a menaningful existence which is far more likely to keep them on the straight and narrow. Yes things go wrong, yes sometimes people re-offend, but you can bet that they wil get longer sentences the next time.

On a different note-life does mean life-but it means subject to a life licence, not usually a lifetime in prison. It is a lack of people's understanding. Once 'life' prisoners are released they live a life licence, subject to Home Office rules and regs and can be supervised by probation officers.

Back to the topic-i don't agree with capital punishment,simply for the fact that mistakes can happen-which is why it was stopped in the first place.

I did not say they should be in the same catagory prison as murders etc. I did say that regardless of what crime they have committed, all prisoners should have the same living standards. You are being punished for a reason, and there should not be different levels of luxuries for different crimes. You stole from someone, you don't deserve to have a TV or games room etc. You murdered someone, you don't deserve to have a TV or games room.

Prison is supposed to teach people a lesson, regardless of what they have done.

Open prisons are still regulated and prisoners are still ackowledge coming back into the prison after what they have done. So yes, he 'broke out' by not coming back. I know most prisoners have sentenced their sentences well, but there are those who just play the system to get out earlier, have more privaleges etc.

Yes life does mean life, but it's hard to understand how life sentence means 25 years in prison, yet some get out in 7. There is no justice in this what so ever. Just because a person is on probation etc. does not mean they will not recommit an offence. If someone murders someone in cold blood, life should mean life behind bars, where they are not a danger to anyone else.

 

[lozzy21]

Bring back hard labour. Make them work on farms moving horse shit, digging ditches, rebuild fences and walls ect.

Cleaning toilets and washing clothes is easy, most of us do that once we get back from work!

 

[aob1013]

Lozzy you do make me laugh

xx

 

[sophxx]

but thats what does happen in these prisons?? i dont understand why you think it doesnt as i said before they only get the luxries on remand and when they start to drop levels! they have to work all day to ear money for phone calls or earn money to buy choclate or pop they all have the same prison tracksuit ect1

the only reason certain people have more treats in prison is because off the srcews and drugs being sold on wings!

Who really cares if they have to work to earn their way of life? It's the same for people on the outside, why should it change because they go to jail? They should be made to work much harder for their stuff imo, instead of just in the kitchens, laundry room etc.

With the massive cuts they are making to the justice system, things will get worse, not better.

ETA - I wonder where most people have their perceptions of prison from? Presumably, in most cases it's from the mass media ect, rather than actually having any knowledge of prison itself. I really, really don't understand where the holiday camp analogy comes from, other than the Daily Express. In high sec. prisons, all the suggestions which are being said already happen

I got my perception of prison from a prison guard in Barlinnie prison, and ex in Perth prison and HMP Scotland websites.
However, I did say I acknowledged that these were low catagory prisons and therefore not the same as high catagory prisons.

Of course it makes a difference what crime you have committed! Some people do find themselves in custody for minor offences, especially women-and a high majority of these women are victims of abuse/DV which has lead to drug addictions and financial instability. You think someone who has committed a minor shoplifting offence should be in the same category prison as someone who has committed far worse a crime?

'There but for the grace of God go i'

You don't need to 'break out' of an open prison-they are open, hence the fact most inmates walk out each day to go to work and are trusted to return in the evenings. Break a rule and you are back inside and back to Cat A prison. The example you have given above, whilst disturbing, is extreme. Most prisoners in an open prison have served their sentences well, which is why they are given the privilege of moving to open conditions.

I think it would be far worse for someone to go straight from a Cat A to release as they have had no time to be tested with trust or allowed to re-integrate into society. This way prisoners can get back into employment, build up their relationships with their families and have a menaningful existence which is far more likely to keep them on the straight and narrow. Yes things go wrong, yes sometimes people re-offend, but you can bet that they wil get longer sentences the next time.

On a different note-life does mean life-but it means subject to a life licence, not usually a lifetime in prison. It is a lack of people's understanding. Once 'life' prisoners are released they live a life licence, subject to Home Office rules and regs and can be supervised by probation officers.

Back to the topic-i don't agree with capital punishment,simply for the fact that mistakes can happen-which is why it was stopped in the first place.

I did not say they should be in the same catagory prison as murders etc. I did say that regardless of what crime they have committed, all prisoners should have the same living standards. You are being punished for a reason, and there should not be different levels of luxuries for different crimes. You stole from someone, you don't deserve to have a TV or games room etc. You murdered someone, you don't deserve to have a TV or games room.

Prison is supposed to teach people a lesson, regardless of what they have done.

Open prisons are still regulated and prisoners are still ackowledge coming back into the prison after what they have done. So yes, he 'broke out' by not coming back. I know most prisoners have sentenced their sentences well, but there are those who just play the system to get out earlier, have more privaleges etc.

Yes life does mean life, but it's hard to understand how life sentence means 25 years in prison, yet some get out in 7. There is no justice in this what so ever. Just because a person is on probation etc. does not mean they will not recommit an offence. If someone murders someone in cold blood, life should mean life behind bars, where they are not a danger to anyone else.

its not about who really cares as you so nicely put it and for your info they do some horrid jobs! its about people saying they have it easy they get all these thigs food ect and dont do anything!

non of us can turely comment until weve walkedf in there shoes or bin inside or someone extremley close has! this topic is more about what people think goes on in jails from what they have read rather than the actual topic!

 

[rubixcyoob.]

I have had someone very close to me inside jail fyi albeit he was a cheat, liar, abuser and complete waster, but at the time I thought I was in love with him.
I've also had a prison guard himself tell me.
And before you tell me anything about how it's not like that at all, as you have repeatedly done so - let me reitterate. I do ackowledge these were low catagory prisons. However, that does not mean they should be given TVs etc. No prisoner should have a TV when people living on the straight and narrow cannot even afford such things.

And tbh, they should do worse jobs then they do. They are in prison for a reason.

 

[buttonnose82]

i think my info came from a pretty reliable source ..... i didn't just go look at say wiki!

 

[babyblog]

But why does it matter if a prisoner is allowed to watch TV, it hardly means he/she is living the life of luxury does it!

 

[rubixcyoob.]

Why should they be allowed creature comforts though? They are put in prison as punishment, yet watching TV is hardly a punishment is it?

 

[JASMAK]

I don't really agree with prisoners having any luxuries...no matter what they did. Time is time, and jail should be jail. You do the crime you do the time...the problem is, I do think that prisoners have too many luxuries. Bread, water, bed, toilet...that's it. It's more than what some have in third world countries!!!! The longer you are in there, the more you suffer...that's just too bad!

 

[babyblog]

Why should they be allowed creature comforts though? They are put in prison as punishment, yet watching TV is hardly a punishment is it?

They are punished-they have restricted movement, restricted contact from family, can't see their children etc. I'm sure that watching a bit of TV does not make most prisoners happy-it just helps to ease the boredom at times

 

[buttonnose82]

if they don't want to be away from their family and children then why do something illegal in the first place

We live in a country where we know well enough that breaking the law can lead to time in prison, they have no one but themselves to blame for being away from family & their children

 

[rubixcyoob.]

They do have some punishments yes, but don't deserve to have TVs to ease their time and boredom. They really should have thought about that before breaking the law. There are people who do not have TVs because they simply cannot afford one, yet prisoners get to watch a TV paid for by the tax system for committing crimes. That's not fair or just.

 

[babyblog]

You're a hard lot aren't you!

Really? has no one ever made a mistake in their lives?! Some of these things could easily have happened to you.

 

[JASMAK]

You're a hard lot aren't you!

Really? has no one ever made a mistake in their lives?! Some of these things could easily have happened to you.

A mistake?!! I mistakingly murdered someone, or mistakingly broke into their house and stole something, or mistakingly committed fraud?!!! Those aren't accidents...those are things that people do KNOWING they are wrong.

 

[rubixcyoob.]

I've never murdered someone, I've never assualted someone, I've never stolen, I've never broke the peace. So tbh, no it couldn't have been me.

And tbh, we have every right to be hard. Our tax money is going to fund TVs and games to keep prisoners amused because they broke the law. No, that's not right. Why should the family of someone who got murdered, the family who got robbed, the person who got assualted etc. pay for their attacker to watch TV?

Just because they are away from family and friends is no excuse. They know the possible consequences of their actions.

 

[buttonnose82]

'hard' no, but i know the difference between breaking the law and not breaking the law