Debate: - Gun Laws and Self Defence

[Jo]

at your description under your name jo x

Shhhhh she hasn't noticed yet

Back to topic LOL

 

[aly888]

I think it depends on HOW you defend yourself really

If you strike them once or twice (enough to disarm/disorientate them) then that is ok ...... self defence in my eyes. However there are people who will beat someone 8, 9 10 times, even after they are disarmed, unconscious and that is wrong, because that is angry and NOT self denfence

I think there needs to be guidelines about what is and isn't acceptable in regards to self defence if that makes sense, there was a story a few years back about a man that beat someone so badly that he left him brain damaged, I am not saying it was right that the man broke into the other mans house, but to beat someone to the point on brain damage just shows a lack of self control and angry which isn't self defence

If it's the same guy, that was a guy in Luton. He got sentenced for it, but then appealed and had his sentence reduced You are right though, that was anger and not self defence. But I think alot of people in that position would automatically strike the offender around the head, as that is the most sure-fire way to disorientate a person (although I think this guy repeatedly hit him around the head), and I suppose you never know what sort of damage you are going to do when your 'fight or flight' instinct takes over...
Anyone remember the story of the farmer who shot an killed a lad who he found in his house?? That is a prime example of unreasonable force. The boy was shot in the back and found outside, which suggests that the farmer shot him as he was running away. The boy shouldnt have been there, but the farmer had obviously done enough to protect his property so why he felt the need to shoot the guy is beyond me!?

and on second thoughts, if there was an intruder in my house who didnt realise I was in then I too would hide...probably under my duvet I Would only put up resistance if I came face to face with the intruder

 

[SKATERBUN]

IMO, you shuold be able to protect yourself in your own home. A person breaking into your house shows you no mercy, why should you show them any? If someone broke into my house and attempted to attack me or Grace I wouldn't think twice about clobbering them round the head with something. They shouldn't be there in the first place. It's human nature to protect yourself and your family. I think self defence shouldn't be a criminal offence whatsoever

I agree Bexy, they made that choice to break in so then why on earth would they expect to asked to leave nicely!

Criminals admitedly can either be knife weilding maniacs, maybe possessed by the actions of taking drugs and feeling of desperation, or just maybe guliable youngsters who are bored and get kicks from impressing their friends for a laugh or a dare. Whichever way you look at it, it is still their choice to break in.

If I was attacked I would defend myself in the least violent way possible as at the moment the law in the UK doesn't always protect the victim.
I wouldnt intentionally chase after someone. If scaring them away is enough then I'd just call the police.

Its a hard one though if someones actually holding you and family hostage, what can you do, fight back, or agree to comply with the burglar?!
I think I would just say take what you want and leave

 

[Shellyvet2007]

Honestly I think that if someone breaks in your home threatens you or your family, then you should have every right possible to defend yourself given the circumstances...

TO be honest though unless there is a witness no one really knows what those circumstances were? Was he just a petty theive who was trying to get away before you clobbered him vs. someone trying to do you or your family physical harm???

Still I think you should have every right to defend your home and your family... even if that involves giving the perpetrator a good clobbering...

 

[Jo]

If it's the same guy, that was a guy in Luton. He got sentenced for it, but then appealed and had his sentence reduced You are right though, that was anger and not self defence. But I think alot of people in that position would automatically strike the offender around the head, as that is the most sure-fire way to disorientate a person (although I think this guy repeatedly hit him around the head), and I suppose you never know what sort of damage you are going to do when your 'fight or flight' instinct takes over...
Anyone remember the story of the farmer who shot an killed a lad who he found in his house?? That is a prime example of unreasonable force. The boy was shot in the back and found outside, which suggests that the farmer shot him as he was running away. The boy shouldnt have been there, but the farmer had obviously done enough to protect his property so why he felt the need to shoot the guy is beyond me!?

and on second thoughts, if there was an intruder in my house who didnt realise I was in then I too would hide...probably under my duvet I Would only put up resistance if I came face to face with the intruder

I think this was Tony Martin, If I remember rightly he had been harrased for a number of months by the guy who he shot, yeah fair does he shouldn't have shot him in the back whilst he was running but he should not have been on his land in the first place, he was frightened and panicked and IMO he should not have been locked up for it, if the police had dealt with the problems in the first place it would never have come to that, this guy saw Tony Martin as an easy target and understandably he had had enough and just snapped, rightly or wrongly.

 

[Jo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)
just checked to see if it was who I thought, He actually shot in the dark, so did not aim at Barras's back as he fled

 

[dani_tinks]

If someone broke into my house, with my son here.. I wouldnt think twice about defending my family. In a situation like that I dont think there's time to think logically and tbh i'd probably myself run screaming at them with some kindof object.. knowing me my hairbrush!

EDIT - I wouldn't stand and wait to see what their intention of being in my home was... they have no right to be there therefore I have every right to defend myself & my family!

 

[buttonnose82]

What kinda world would be live in if 'an eye for an eye' was acceptable

 

[aly888]

If it's the same guy, that was a guy in Luton. He got sentenced for it, but then appealed and had his sentence reduced You are right though, that was anger and not self defence. But I think alot of people in that position would automatically strike the offender around the head, as that is the most sure-fire way to disorientate a person (although I think this guy repeatedly hit him around the head), and I suppose you never know what sort of damage you are going to do when your 'fight or flight' instinct takes over...
Anyone remember the story of the farmer who shot an killed a lad who he found in his house?? That is a prime example of unreasonable force. The boy was shot in the back and found outside, which suggests that the farmer shot him as he was running away. The boy shouldnt have been there, but the farmer had obviously done enough to protect his property so why he felt the need to shoot the guy is beyond me!?

and on second thoughts, if there was an intruder in my house who didnt realise I was in then I too would hide...probably under my duvet I Would only put up resistance if I came face to face with the intruder

I think this was Tony Martin, If I remember rightly he had been harrased for a number of months by the guy who he shot, yeah fair does he shouldn't have shot him in the back whilst he was running but he should not have been on his land in the first place, he was frightened and panicked and IMO he should not have been locked up for it, if the police had dealt with the problems in the first place it would never have come to that, this guy saw Tony Martin as an easy target and understandably he had had enough and just snapped, rightly or wrongly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)
just checked to see if it was who I thought, He actually shot in the dark, so did not aim at Barras's back as he fled

oooh, I didnt know he had been harrassing him
but as for shooting him, he obviously knew he was running away, and if he was just trying to scare him further he could have shot in a different direction. He may not have meant to kill him (god only knows what goes through someones head after months of that and then to find them on your property), but he was obviously hoping to hit him

ETA - OMG, I just skimmed over that Wiki article and I can not believe that the other guy tried to SUE Tony Martin for loss of earnings!! THAT is where the court system fails IMO, but that is another topic..
Martin got a rough deal in that case. He was defending his property, and although he went too far, he should not have been convicted of murder

 

[Elli21]

Personally, if someone enters my home with the intent to take my things or hurt my children or myself, then im sorry but i will defend my family and property with all i have.
And if they get a frying pan to the head then thats their fault for being in my house!

Im not going to sit and wonder what circumstances they are in for them to be in my house, i dont care...
I dare say we have all hit hard rocks at one time where we dont know how we are going to cope for that day/week/month, but i would never go into someones house! and if i did for whatever reason i would EXPECT to be met with brute force!

 

[Lilicat]

I once caught two teenagers trying to break in to my flat. They were aged about 17/18 so not children, I caught them as they were trying to get in kitchen window. I grabbed the biggest knife tapped on the window with it and said "I am coming for you so you'd better f**king run", I chased them down the street, the morons were so scared they ran in to oncoming traffic to get away from me

I need to add at this point I dropped the knife before I left the flat so I was within the law. I am scary enough without weaponry!

I did phone the police after I had chased them off and they said they would send someone over "at some point" as they were short staffed. I was living alone at that point so I basically got to sit there alone late at night waiting to see if they would come back. I told the police officer on the phone that I wanted it recorded that they had refused to attend and if they did come back and I did them some serious damage it was because I had been refused police assistance.

They never did send anyone round, although someone phoned a few hours later, to ensure I wasn't dead I assume.

I do think people should have more rights to defend themselves against someone breaking in. If you hear a noise at 2am and find a stranger in your house the options aren't really good a burglar/rapist/murderer/mentally unstable person. Aside from the mentally ill person the rest pretty much deserve what they get.

My basic premise is that if you break in to my flat you are a danger to my family, particularly my baby son. I would have no problem defending myself and my family physically with the closed thing to hand. I think the law should allow me to use a reasonable force to defend myself.

 

[Chaos]

I did phone the police after I had chased them off and they said they would send someone over "at some point" as they were short staffed.

wtf? "Sorry madam, we appreciate you've just had an attempted break in and they've gone, but would you mind waiting despite the fact they might come back with others because they are pissed off at you, and when they do, just offer them a drink and wait for us to turn up, because you know, being short staffed trumps your safety"

 

[ALY]

im sorry but if some one ever came into my house i wouldnt think about anything id defend my kids as bet i could (karl has alwayed said he feels sorry for anyone if they break into our house ) but saying that i wouldnt want to put myself in danger what if they hurt me and the kids after so id just set max my dog onto them, am sure if someone breaks into a home where there is a dog that you dont get into trouble if the dog bites them as they say the dog has a right to protect the house and persons in it

anyway no i wouldnt wait to find out what they were doing in my house

 

[special_kala]

I think that reasonable force is acceptable when defending your home and family.


Wasn't there a man a few years ago who got sent to prison because he shot a young burglar in his home and killed him? In my eyes that is not ok because as far as i can remember the lad was unarmed and im sure some big bloke holding a shotgun was enough to scare the sh#t out of him.

Though i guess at the time you get all caught up the adrenaline and maybe cant stop yourself?

 

[special_kala]

im sorry but if some one ever came into my house i wouldnt think about anything id defend my kids as bet i could (karl has alwayed said he feels sorry for anyone if they break into our house ) but saying that i wouldnt want to put myself in danger what if they hurt me and the kids after so id just set max my dog onto them, am sure if someone breaks into a home where there is a dog that you dont get into trouble if the dog bites them as they say the dog has a right to protect the house and persons in it

anyway no i wouldnt wait to find out what they were doing in my house

I have a pretty big labrador and i honestly think that if someone came into our house in the middle of the nigth he would just lick them

 

[Lilicat]

wtf? "Sorry madam, we appreciate you've just had an attempted break in and they've gone, but would you mind waiting despite the fact they might come back with others because they are pissed off at you, and when they do, just offer them a drink and wait for us to turn up, because you know, being short staffed trumps your safety"

I can take care of myself (used to work in mental health and then at a prison) but they don't know that. All they knew is that I was a young woman alone in a flat late at night with a couple of guys trying to break in so I did think it was more that a bit crap they didn't come out. Also one of my neighbour's flats got broken in that evening (I am not sure if it was before or after mine, they were out) and that possibly could have been avoided if they had actually bothered to come out.

I have a pretty big labrador and i honestly think that if someone came into our house in the middle of the nigth he would just lick them

My mum's neighbour's had a rottweiler who would have loved it if someone broke in, he liked making new friends and would have been jumping up and licking them and generally just have been really pleased. He was so cute

 

[ALY]

im sorry but if some one ever came into my house i wouldnt think about anything id defend my kids as bet i could (karl has alwayed said he feels sorry for anyone if they break into our house ) but saying that i wouldnt want to put myself in danger what if they hurt me and the kids after so id just set max my dog onto them, am sure if someone breaks into a home where there is a dog that you dont get into trouble if the dog bites them as they say the dog has a right to protect the house and persons in it

anyway no i wouldnt wait to find out what they were doing in my house

I have a pretty big labrador and i honestly think that if someone came into our house in the middle of the nigth he would just lick them

max my puppy is 6 1/2 months old but already weighs 5 1\2 stone so he is big he isnt nasty or anything but he does go mad if he hears a noise outside late at night

 

[Hayley90]

I know someone who was raped by a burglar. She tried hiding from him, he must have heard her, because he found her, attacked her in her house and ran away. Didnt take a thing. So YES i would hide, but id hide with a pretty scary weapon to be honest.

And thats me on my own, without a baby. Once baby is here (and even now as im pregnant) i'm sure i'd be a LOT less willing to hide in a wardrobe and let some scumbag take my stuff. That's what Liam is for anyway

No one coming into your house illegally has innocent intentions, otherwise they'd ring the doorbell. Even THEN you get some scumbags who hurt old ladies...

If you aren't invited into my house, you aren't welcome. And i think if i want to protect myself from those people, i shouldn't be arrested for it, while they get off scot-free with a laptop or tv, or a slap on the wrist.

 

[ALY]

wtf? "Sorry madam, we appreciate you've just had an attempted break in and they've gone, but would you mind waiting despite the fact they might come back with others because they are pissed off at you, and when they do, just offer them a drink and wait for us to turn up, because you know, being short staffed trumps your safety"

I can take care of myself (used to work in mental health and then at a prison) but they don't know that. All they knew is that I was a young woman alone in a flat late at night with a couple of guys trying to break in so I did think it was more that a bit crap they didn't come out. Also one of my neighbour's flats got broken in that evening (I am not sure if it was before or after mine, they were out) and that possibly could have been avoided if they had actually bothered to come out.

I have a pretty big labrador and i honestly think that if someone came into our house in the middle of the nigth he would just lick them

My mum's neighbour's had a rottweiler who would have loved it if someone broke in, he liked making new friends and would have been jumping up and licking them and generally just have been really pleased. He was so cute

max is a rottweiler cross german shep and he is a big softie thro the day but at night he is always listening and barking if he hears a noise and he isnt playing he is been nasty and aggressive

 

[Nic1107]

If it was a burglar coming in with the intention of stealing my stuff, stuff is replaceable. I assume I'll have homeowner's insurance which will cover loss due to theft anyway. Life is not replaceable, so I wouldn't go near a dangerous intruder if it wasn't necessary. However, I'll be standing at the doorway to Carmen's room with a tazer so if he comes near us, he's getting knocked on his ass! I wouldn't kill except as a last resort, especially if the intruder is just some dumb kid. However, if my husband is home and perceives a threat to his family, he'll be loading his rifle and I'm not getting in his way.

EDIT: And I absolutely don't think he should get prosecuted if he kills whomever has broken into our house. Breaking in is a crime, and a crime is a threat to the victims. When someone is in your home, a threat to the property is a threat to the people in the home. If it's obvious that the self-defense went too far- like the burglar is shot after fleeing the property or the body is mangled with the head on a pike on the front lawn, then the jury and judge can take it on a case-by-case basis.