Do human beings have the right to commit suicide?

[Blah11]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
You cannot declare all suicide and those who commit it selfish for christ sake.
I attempted suicide, i genuinely believed my loved ones were better off without me, years and years of depression had seeped this into my brain, i was childless at this point. I was NOT selfish, i believe i was doing it for the right reasons, neither was i an "angry teenager" it infuriates me to see people say these things, if you have never been in the dark place that pre-empts suicide you could never know.
OH's cousin commited suicide because she was being horrendously bullied, she was not selfish she was desperate.
Whilst i don't think suicide should be legalised i do think that there should be better understanding, i also believe that someone who is terminally ill, in agony, no quality of life who are in the right mind to know they want it to be over, should be allowed that right, its so so wrong they are not.

the fact that you think that youre a burden and everyone would be better off without you is sort of irreevant. you might not think youre selfish at the time, but ultimately, its a very selfish thing to do.

 

[feeble]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
You cannot declare all suicide and those who commit it selfish for christ sake.
I attempted suicide, i genuinely believed my loved ones were better off without me, years and years of depression had seeped this into my brain, i was childless at this point. I was NOT selfish, i believe i was doing it for the right reasons, neither was i an "angry teenager" it infuriates me to see people say these things, if you have never been in the dark place that pre-empts suicide you could never know.
OH's cousin commited suicide because she was being horrendously bullied, she was not selfish she was desperate.
Whilst i don't think suicide should be legalised i do think that there should be better understanding, i also believe that someone who is terminally ill, in agony, no quality of life who are in the right mind to know they want it to be over, should be allowed that right, its so so wrong they are not.

the fact that you think that youre a burden and everyone would be better off without you is sort of irreevant. you might not think youre selfish at the time, but ultimately, its a very selfish thing to do.

You say this as if it is totally black and white... and it just is NOT

what if you have a person, who has an irrational NEED to abuse children sexually, this person is compelled to the point that they frequently think about, plan to and occassionally carry out an attack or abuse of a child.

If that person kills themselves, because they cannot live with their need to abuse a child, is that selfish?

What about a serial killer, someone who is compelled to kill?

What about a parent who abuses their own kids, yet knows if s/he tells anyone, the children will also be taken out of the care of the other caring parent?

To say 'it is selfish no matter what' is ignorant of the vastly different social and mental creatures humans are. Some of us are Really odd, have thoughts and feelings that are completely damaging to the people around us.

I do agree to a certain extend, i think that depression causes people to be incredibly self-involved and prevents them from seeing their own ability to sort things out.

Take Kurt Cobain for example, a junkie who lived with his junkie wife and young daughter, he knew he was a junkie and he knew the life HIS CHILD was living was not suitable, did he sort it out, get off the junk and save the life of his child? No, he shot himself, cowards way out (in my opinion)

But there are cases where a person is found hanged, and in their suicide note they have explained that they had (in their mind) two choices, to take their life or to take someone elses or abuse a child. Is that selfish or selfless?

 

[Blah11]

i think we're speaking in far more general terms than rapists and murderers!

 

[feeble]

you have said (without any prior understanding or information of any one situation) that suicide is selfish.

like it is a black and white issue

My point is that it is not. Why do you think people commit suicide? Do you think it is because they think 'I know, this will ruin their lives'

You have spoken about something that is as complex as human nature, in a completely black and white manner and its just not that simple at all.

 

[Lina]

Humans have a choice on whether to commit suicide, it used to be a crime not that long ago but was changed after the realisation that you cannot prosecute the dead.

I, for one hope that it never becomes a right that finds itself in statue, we should care for and help those who feel no reason to live not 'offer' such way out and provide means. What bothers me about suicide more than anything is the methods used, often by way of jumping in front of trains and in the process damaging the unsuspecting train driver. Train companies have had to set up specialist units to deal with the trauma. In that sense it is 'selfish', but a person at the depth of depression and hopelessness doesn't really think of that.

 

[lhancock90]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
You cannot declare all suicide and those who commit it selfish for christ sake.
I attempted suicide, i genuinely believed my loved ones were better off without me, years and years of depression had seeped this into my brain, i was childless at this point. I was NOT selfish, i believe i was doing it for the right reasons, neither was i an "angry teenager" it infuriates me to see people say these things, if you have never been in the dark place that pre-empts suicide you could never know.
OH's cousin commited suicide because she was being horrendously bullied, she was not selfish she was desperate.
Whilst i don't think suicide should be legalised i do think that there should be better understanding, i also believe that someone who is terminally ill, in agony, no quality of life who are in the right mind to know they want it to be over, should be allowed that right, its so so wrong they are not.

the fact that you think that youre a burden and everyone would be better off without you is sort of irreevant. you might not think youre selfish at the time, but ultimately, its a very selfish thing to do.

Its not irrelevant if it is the cause to you doing it.
My Dad attempted suicide on numerous occasions after suffering with constant depression, anger, violent mood swings, alcoholism. Personally, i find suicide in his case, less selfish than him choosing to stay alive, unhappy and destroying the life of his 11 year old daughter.
What about someone who has no family, no friends and commits suicide with nobody around to care? Is that selfish?
I'm sorry but you are trying to make something black and white that cannot possibly be labeled that way. Each case is different, its not ALWAYS SELFISH.
Especially when i consider my earlier example about OH's cousin, was a 16 year old girl, horrendously bullied selfish for taking her own life? Was she more selfish than the *******s that drove her to it??

 

[kerrie24]

This thread asked for peoples opinions,why start arguing just cos we have different ones?

I think it is a selfish thing to do too.
but yes we have a right to do it if we feel its the only way.

 

[Blah11]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
You cannot declare all suicide and those who commit it selfish for christ sake.
I attempted suicide, i genuinely believed my loved ones were better off without me, years and years of depression had seeped this into my brain, i was childless at this point. I was NOT selfish, i believe i was doing it for the right reasons, neither was i an "angry teenager" it infuriates me to see people say these things, if you have never been in the dark place that pre-empts suicide you could never know.
OH's cousin commited suicide because she was being horrendously bullied, she was not selfish she was desperate.
Whilst i don't think suicide should be legalised i do think that there should be better understanding, i also believe that someone who is terminally ill, in agony, no quality of life who are in the right mind to know they want it to be over, should be allowed that right, its so so wrong they are not.

the fact that you think that youre a burden and everyone would be better off without you is sort of irreevant. you might not think youre selfish at the time, but ultimately, its a very selfish thing to do.

Its not irrelevant if it is the cause to you doing it.
My Dad attempted suicide on numerous occasions after suffering with constant depression, anger, violent mood swings, alcoholism. Personally, i find suicide in his case, less selfish than him choosing to stay alive, unhappy and destroying the life of his 11 year old daughter.
What about someone who has no family, no friends and commits suicide with nobody around to care? Is that selfish?
I'm sorry but you are trying to make something black and white that cannot possibly be labeled that way. Each case is different, its not ALWAYS SELFISH.
Especially when i consider my earlier example about OH's cousin, was a 16 year old girl, horrendously bullied selfish for taking her own life? Was she more selfish than the *******s that drove her to it??

Theres always going to be someone who has to clean up after you. Government people trying to sort out your financial issues if you have no family, the people who are going to have to arrange your burial, people who have to clean up the mess your body has left and the person who finds you will probably be severly traumatised by it too.

 

[lhancock90]

This thread asked for peoples opinions,why start arguing just cos we have different ones?

I think it is a selfish thing to do too.
but yes we have a right to do it if we feel its the only way.

I think at the moment its still a discussion, maybe with some emotions running high, but its not a row.

 

[kerrie24]

Somebody jumped off the bridge in front of my sisters office 2 weeks ago.Some of the staff are having councilling for what they saw.The company pays for it.My sister included.She couldnt sleep for days.Everyone had to walk past his body on their way out.people were late home,late picking their kids up from the childminders,people vomitted at their desks,leaving more work for the cleaners that night.But of course,the man wasnt thinking of all those people,only his own misery.

 

[lhancock90]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
You cannot declare all suicide and those who commit it selfish for christ sake.
I attempted suicide, i genuinely believed my loved ones were better off without me, years and years of depression had seeped this into my brain, i was childless at this point. I was NOT selfish, i believe i was doing it for the right reasons, neither was i an "angry teenager" it infuriates me to see people say these things, if you have never been in the dark place that pre-empts suicide you could never know.
OH's cousin commited suicide because she was being horrendously bullied, she was not selfish she was desperate.
Whilst i don't think suicide should be legalised i do think that there should be better understanding, i also believe that someone who is terminally ill, in agony, no quality of life who are in the right mind to know they want it to be over, should be allowed that right, its so so wrong they are not.

the fact that you think that youre a burden and everyone would be better off without you is sort of irreevant. you might not think youre selfish at the time, but ultimately, its a very selfish thing to do.

Its not irrelevant if it is the cause to you doing it.
My Dad attempted suicide on numerous occasions after suffering with constant depression, anger, violent mood swings, alcoholism. Personally, i find suicide in his case, less selfish than him choosing to stay alive, unhappy and destroying the life of his 11 year old daughter.
What about someone who has no family, no friends and commits suicide with nobody around to care? Is that selfish?
I'm sorry but you are trying to make something black and white that cannot possibly be labeled that way. Each case is different, its not ALWAYS SELFISH.
Especially when i consider my earlier example about OH's cousin, was a 16 year old girl, horrendously bullied selfish for taking her own life? Was she more selfish than the *******s that drove her to it??

Theres always going to be someone who has to clean up after you. Government people trying to sort out your financial issues if you have no family, the people who are going to have to arrange your burial, people who have to clean up the mess your body has left and the person who finds you will probably be severly traumatised by it too.

I just don't think every case can be documented that way. The goverment has to sort out financial issues for thousands of people every day, its not selfish in every case. Just how i feel, obviously, as i'm so close to the subject i do feel quite strongly about it.

 

[Blah11]

I know the people who do commit suicide arent in the right state of mind and obviously they aren't thinking that so many people will miss them or that it'll affect so many people, but it does.

selfish - (of a person, action, or motive) Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.



Suicide is exactly that.

 

[indy and lara]

I do not believe that anyone has the right to make another person keep living. I believe in free will and that ultimately it is the decision of every individual as to whether they live or not. I have no religious faith. You have the right to end your life because, for me, it is your life and your choice.

Obviously suicide, like all death, is very sad and hard for those who are left behind and I am not belittling that. It is also exceptionally traumatic for those who witness 'violent' suicides such as jumping onto a train track. But if someone plans to take an overdose at home, is that not their right if they can stand living no longer?

 

[feeble]

Theres always going to be someone who has to clean up after you. Government people trying to sort out your financial issues if you have no family, the people who are going to have to arrange your burial, people who have to clean up the mess your body has left and the person who finds you will probably be severly traumatised by it too.

Doesnt that happen when someone dies anyway?

What difference would it make, hanging around for a few years to die naturally? There would still be loads to sort out, the estate, the possessions etc

This always happens with any death, so unless it is selfish to die in general, it doesnt really make a difference when.

 

[Blah11]

Theres always going to be someone who has to clean up after you. Government people trying to sort out your financial issues if you have no family, the people who are going to have to arrange your burial, people who have to clean up the mess your body has left and the person who finds you will probably be severly traumatised by it too.

Doesnt that happen when someone dies anyway?

What difference would it make, hanging around for a few years to die naturally? There would still be loads to sort out, the estate, the possessions etc

This always happens with any death, so unless it is selfish to die in general, it doesnt really make a difference when.

Hm, well no. Most people die with friends and family around and in general, they are old and have led long, fullfiling lifes and although its also sad when they die, that was natures way. I think its much much worse for the family and friends when their life was cut short at too young an age.

 

[feeble]

I know the people who do commit suicide arent in the right state of mind and obviously they aren't thinking that so many people will miss them or that it'll affect so many people, but it does.

selfish - (of a person, action, or motive) Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.



Suicide is exactly that.

I gave you a number of situations where suicide was completely in consideration for someone else

like in the case of a child abuser

and you ignored those points, why?

it is impossible to say in such a black and white manner that ALL suicide is selfish, there are situations where people kill themselves because they believe themselves to be a danger to other people. This is really having utter consideration for others, making it totally non-selfish.

I think if you are going to continue to suggest that ALL suicides are selfish, you need to clarify how a serial killer, taking his own life so not to take another persons, can be considered 'selfish'

or a child abuser who does not wish to harm a child.

 

[Blah11]

because like I said, we're talking in quite general terms (or atleast I am). Theres ALWAYS going to be an exception to the rule in every single thing you debate. How many child abusers kill themselves :\ Or serial killers? Very little until they get caught I bet.
I'd rather they handed themselves into the police and went to jail to serve time for their disgusting behaviour, not end it all so they don't need to suffer thinking about what theyve done.

 

[feeble]

But that is exactly the point. A person killing themselves IS an exceptional situation, its not just a random thought, or something someone decides to do in an instant.

I think you would be surprised actually, at how many paedophiles seek help and support for their illness, and end up causing themselves harm or death to prevent what is an uncontrollable urge to them.

The point IS that there are exceptional circumstances, and without knowing the ins and outs of each circumstance, it is impossible to make a blanket judgement.

Some suicide is selfish, admittedly

but some is not, and so we cannot make such black and white judgements. Humans just arent that simple.

 

[Blah11]

Well, surprise me then How many paedophiles seek help before they're caught? & serial killers? Do you have anything to back up your claims?

 

[feeble]

There have been cases, but it would be an impossible thing to put a number on because, if for example a man commited suicide in light of his urges, it would be easier on his family and friends if they did not know.

The fact remains, that without detailed information about the type of person, or the reasons behind a suicide, it is impossible to label it as selfish.

the fact is, unless a person had been found guilt for a crime such as this, and then commited suicide, there would be no way of knowing why they had done so and even if they had, it would be pretty cruel to drag it through the media wouldnt it?

Many people commit suicide because they feel it is the 'kinder' option to their friends/family etc for a variety of reasons, to say that all those reasons are selfish... well, i would ask you to provide proof of that! Which of course, you cannot do...