Do human beings have the right to commit suicide?

[indy and lara]

Mindy_mini, I am sorry you are having to live through this. We lonst my Mum quite a few years ago now and watching her last few days was just unbearable. I am thinking of you and hope that your Dad is at peace.

I do strongly support euthanasia and did before my own experience of losing a loved one to a terminal illness. My issue with Dignitas is the cost element.

 

[JASMAK]

I started this thread and then forgot about it...sorry ladies!

My opinion...I don't know!!! I am on the fence about it. I think it can be selfish in a way, or it can seem selfish, for those who are left behind. But, then I have never been in that much emotional pain to want to kill myself, so who am I to judge that.

As far as euthanization...I think I might be for it, actually. But, there would have to be some guidelines, because my fear, is that the elderly will start requesting because they feel they are a burden, kwim? I don't know what guidelines though. I know when my step-grandpa died, he had a broken hip, a blocked intestine, infection, he developed insulin depended diabetes...all in a matter of a week (after he fell and broke his hip). He was in so much pain, and he requested to the doctors that they let him die. He actually wanted to go home but they said he couldn't, because he wouldn't make it to the parking lot. But, they didn't give him his next insulin, and he was dead in a matter of an hour. To me, that makes sense.

 

[Lightworker]

I started this thread and then forgot about it...sorry ladies!

LOL

 

[tina3747]

I wondered where you went to!! ^^^

 

[Blah11]

Yes, probably but I don't think euthanasia is right.
.

So clearly you've never sat at a hospital bed side day after day watching a loved one get weaker and weaker, suffering more and more pain to the point where they are taking so much pain relief, they are unable to speak to you any more yet they can still hear you.

This is a very sensitive subject to me - especially today - my dad is in hospital in the exact state described above. He wants it over, we want it over, we've watched him go through hell in the last two weeks watching him get worse and worse (well actually the last 5years since his illness got worse). He now can't eat or drink, he is bowel continent and during the few minutes a day he is able to open his eyes he just stares at us with a look of pain on his eyes (the eyes which are failing him fast an within the next day or two he won't be able to see us any more) We hate seeing him like this, he hates how he is and also how much it's hurting us to see him like that. When he was told there was nothing else they could do for him, he cried that he wanted it over quickly. The doctors told us it would be 24-72hrs. It's two weeks on Monday since they said that. Mum and I sit there for hours and hours trying make him comfortable, telling him how much we love him, telling him it's ok.

When you've been through that, then tell me you don't beleive in euthanasia!

Sorry to rant but your post really upset me. How DARE you suggest my dad is selfish!

i work in a hospital, dont tell me what i have and have not done, and do not try and put words in my mouth. I said i dont think euthanasia is right, i didnt say it was selfish.

 

[Blah11]

Yes, probably but I don't think euthanasia is right.
.

So clearly you've never sat at a hospital bed side day after day watching a loved one get weaker and weaker, suffering more and more pain to the point where they are taking so much pain relief, they are unable to speak to you any more yet they can still hear you.

This is a very sensitive subject to me - especially today - my dad is in hospital in the exact state described above. He wants it over, we want it over, we've watched him go through hell in the last two weeks watching him get worse and worse (well actually the last 5years since his illness got worse). He now can't eat or drink, he is bowel continent and during the few minutes a day he is able to open his eyes he just stares at us with a look of pain on his eyes (the eyes which are failing him fast an within the next day or two he won't be able to see us any more) We hate seeing him like this, he hates how he is and also how much it's hurting us to see him like that. When he was told there was nothing else they could do for him, he cried that he wanted it over quickly. The doctors told us it would be 24-72hrs. It's two weeks on Monday since they said that. Mum and I sit there for hours and hours trying make him comfortable, telling him how much we love him, telling him it's ok.

When you've been through that, then tell me you don't beleive in euthanasia!

Sorry to rant but your post really upset me. How DARE you suggest my dad is selfish!

Actually I think you will find Blah is a nurse and to sit by the bed of dieing people, trying to make them comfortable as possible is her job

That makes it even more unclear to me, how she can be so black and white about such things... if she has personal experience of a human suffering, how can she just put everything in such clearly marked boxes?

omg. nothing like flogging a dead horse. GENERALLY speaking i have said.

 

[miaplus2]

how anyone can generalize suicide baffles me completely its far to complex and issue to generalize.

 

[feeble]

Exactly!

To generalise a person taking their own life is quite demeaning to that life.

 

[Blah11]

im excluding those who are paedophiles and the like to stop them harming others as i think thats extremely rare and those who are terminally ill.

 

[feeble]

Well thank you so much for offering the boundaries of which you think everyone else's ethical standards should be.

How... Noble of you...

 

[Blah11]

Exactly!

To generalise a person taking their own life is quite demeaning to that life.

are you just trying to rile me up or what? first you say im belligerant now i clearly have no respect for human suffering. Stop being so rude. Making personal attacks because i dont agree with you isnt really on.

 

[feeble]

I feel like you have refused to explain yourself (which is belligerence) and instead continually put forth a black and white, very blinkered view on what is by nature an exception matter.

Admittedly, 6 pages in, you have realised that there ARE circumstances where suicide is not selfish, and have outed certain extremists and those in vast pain from your box of 'selfish' but you still seem caught up in this idea that suicide is something that can be generalised and treated as a one-size-fits-all situation, in which one rule is for everyone... And that is highly insulting to anyone whose loved one has suffered, or taken their own lives for a variety of reasons.

Those reasons are as vast and obscure as there are people on the planet, nobody has suggested there are NO reasons why suicide is selfish, simply refuted this idea that EVERYBODY who commits suicide is selfish.

In the news recently there was a story of a women who had lain dead in her home for 3 years. She was found because a neighbour kept reporting on the smell.

Had she of killed herself, she would have damaged no body, there was no body in her life to be damaged. So is that selfish?


There are countless stories like this... And a variety of others as people on this thread have told you.

Perhaps its better to say some suicide is selfish? Maybe even say 'most' if it makes you feel better. But to suggest all is... That is going to upset people.

 

[JASMAK]

Blah has the right to her opinion...and although I am on the fence about it, I would, personally, think a nurse has seen enough to have a pretty valid opinion.

 

[Blah11]

where did I say 'all suicide no matter what is selfish'?

 

[feeble]

You have repeatedly said 'suicide is selfish' you even posted the dictionary definition of it... You have only just suggested that you might be willing to discount people who are terminally ill or those considered a danger to others but only just.

The point though, is not that some things should be discounted, but that each individual situation should be judged as such, not given a blanket name.

 

[Blah11]

To be frank with you I don't really want to debate this with you anymore. You've been rude and personally attacked me on more than one occasion on this thread. I'd rather we just end this conversation now as I'm getting increasingly annoyed.

 

[feeble]

Fair enough, I will just finish by saying this;

It has not been my intention to personally attack you, nor be rude. I feel you have been rude and dismissive of my comments, at times I have even had to beg you to consider my part of the conversation. I do not feel this is appropriate in a free and open debate.

My intention is never to tell you you are 'wrong' or that I am 'right' similar to the situations in question, there is no wrong or right, nor is it necessary for there to be.

I have only begged you to reconsider your black and white judgement on a sensitive and personal issue for many people (myself included)

Such topics run deep and people feel strongly about them, it is best I find to err on the side of caution rather than be black and white on a subject which is by definition, varied and complex.

I think that partly, your point of view is valid, and would hold a lot more truth if it was put across in a more compassionate way... Such as 'I worry that some (most) suicide is selfish' this would leave room for people to have exceptional circumstances or a different series of events.

Hope that explains things (from my point of view) further

 

[lhancock90]

Blah11 i am really intrigued by your opinions, i wonder if i worked in your sector would mine be the same?
I think i said earlier, we should agree to disagree, everyone has the right to an opinion and its been an interesting debate.

 

[smelly07]

we all think differently, our life experience and who we are make our opinions such....all we can do is try and understand others views and respect others views.

I have known people to commit suicide for all different reasons...my dad had terminal cancer and was in incredible amount of pain, i remember listening to him screaming and crying in pain asking my mum to end his life, i have also been at a point where i wanted to end my life.

do i personally view suicide as selfish?........NO. do others feel suicide is selfish.....YES? am i upset by this?......NO.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion x

 

[Blah11]

Maybe. A lot of the patients are depressed (its geriatric) and say they want to die which is a hard pill to swallow when the patient next door has end stage cancer and will die when they dont really want to. I know its not their fault they're depressed though. IDK, I just think life is precious and should only end when it needs to.