Do you think CC/CIO is wrong?

[TennisGal]

Ah, thanks. That sounds like my girlie, we were only saying today that she must set records for amount of time spent bf-ing!

 

[Lightworker]

Oops I didnt clarify- crying is a babys last resort in terms of communication. It is usually preceded by cues to alert the caregiver to respond. There is an article titled Why African Babies Dont Cry- if you check www.naturalchild.org - you may find it there, plus other articles on sleep. x

 

[smokey]

Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do, its only wrong if the child is being ignored because the parent cant be bothered to deal with them.

 

[anna matronic]

I read something earlier, can't remember where, it was literally a headline about babies in Africa rarely cry. I can only assume it is because most often than not they are being worn and therefore clost to there mummy all of the time, they are breastfed on demand, there mum isn't eating anything that could cause a reaction in the baby (such as dairy etc etc) they most probably co-sleep.

 

[Kota]

Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do, its only wrong if the child is being ignored because the parent cant be bothered to deal with them.

But where is the difference in the impact on the child. I believe that cc/cio is wrong largely because of the hormone/stress release in the brain and the chemical reaction this can cause, the long term effects of this leading to detachment, emotional issues, trust issues etc. Whether the parent is doing cc/cio out of a perceived notion that they are doing the child good, or because they just 'can't be bothered to deal with them'. The fact remains, that a baby is being left to cry for a substantial amount of time. The chemical release to the brain doesn't stop just because the parent is sitting on the other side counting down the 5/10/15 mins until they can go back in there.

 

[Kota]

I read something earlier, can't remember where, it was literally a headline about babies in Africa rarely cry. I can only assume it is because most often than not they are being worn and therefore clost to there mummy all of the time, they are breastfed on demand, there mum isn't eating anything that could cause a reaction in the baby (such as dairy etc etc) they most probably co-sleep.

https://www.naturalchild.org/guest/claire_niala.html

 

[PepsiChic]

Were the studies done in a controlled environment and based on those that had ONLY had lengthy periods of crying during CC/CIO? For most, from what I have read, CC takes 3-5 days max. Totalling normally a few hrs max crying over that whole period.

The studies are based on children left to cry for certain periods of time (CC) or for an extended period of time. there are many studies done so the time can vary, but i found a generalization tends to be 30 minutes to an hour or longer. Bare in mind that the way cortisol affects the brain is when a baby is left ALONE to cry and is NOT comforted.

ALL children do cry. ALL children are likely to have meltdowns that the parent cannot console and may cry for long periods as a result. They might cry for long periods when ill. Is 3 hrs going to really have that big an impact?
I disagree. There is nearly always a way to comfort or console a child. yes 3 hours would make a difference.

That 3 hrs extra crying could be made up in time by your own child if your own baby came down with a bug. Would you think then, if you child cried for long periods over a period that their health was direct affected as a result of that crying?

I don't doubt that frequent periods of prolonged crying can and will cause damage to a child. But, CC/CC, when used properly is unlikely to equate to much extra crying overall, in the grand scheme of childhood, than a child who was never sleep trained. This is based on it being used correctly and then successfully teaching a child to self settle over a few days of use.

Also, there is a benefit. Once the child has been through the sleep training and can sleep better. You cannot just sweep aside the benefit of a better night's sleep for a developing baby.

I believe there are better alternative methods then CC or CIO.

I think its unnecessary to leave a child to cry. I guess "thats my opinion". I know people who say PUPD didnt work for them etc, but when you actually dig into their techniques etc most of the time they werent doing it correctly or consistently for it to work. Or some just dont have the patience for the method itself.

 

[brunette&bubs]

PepsiChic, can you enlighten me on what PUPD actually is?
i'm not trying to be mean at all i really want to know
i know it means pick up put down but what do you actually do?

 

[PepsiChic]

PepsiChic, can you enlighten me on what PUPD actually is?
i'm not trying to be mean at all i really want to know
i know it means pick up put down but what do you actually do?

certainly, the basics of it are you put your LO down for bedtime/naptime awake, you leave, when they cry you go in and pick them up, comfort, console and calm them. once calm you put them down awake still and leave again. you basically repeat these actions over and over until your LO falls asleep.

there is much more to it than that really but thats the basics, Im no expert but ive helped a lot of people on this forum via 1 on 1 pms all day and night. Because the least that you can do is to try.

It does annoy me that people try other things like CC and CIO first, but thats probably because I dont agree with them and i feel its an easier route to take then time consuming method such as PUPD. Im sorry if that offends you or anyone else, thats not my intention im just giving my true feelings on the matter.

 

[brunette&bubs]

no that doesn't offend me at all
i find it interesting.
my main goal for James was taking the paci away because it was causing more night wakings.
luckily he hasnt really cared/noticed and seems happier without it so now no sleep training for me is needed

in between the time i started this thread and now James stopped waking up for his paci and I really didnt need to do any CC. Once we didn't put him to sleep with it he didnt wake up wanting it.

Best decision I ever made was taking that dumb thing away.

If in the future I have sleep issues do you mind if i pm you about PUPD????

 

[AriannasMama]

I use a form of CC I suppose, Arianna has always fussed her self to sleep, and by fussing I mean barely making any noise at all, it's just what calms her down, so I let her do that until she falls asleep, if it turns into anything more than a fuss I don't let her do that.

 

[sjminimac]

I use a form of CC I suppose, Arianna has always fussed her self to sleep, and by fussing I mean barely making any noise at all, it's just what calms her down, so I let her do that until she falls asleep, if it turns into anything more than a fuss I don't let her do that.

I don't see that as cc, i see that as self soothing I wish charlie would do the same x

 

[Laura2919]

I dont think its wrong. Although I dont think a newborn needs CC or CIO!

I used CC for my girls and it worked for us.

I never ever left my children if they were hungry, needed a new nappy or needed anything else and I wouldnt, thats not CC or CIO, thats neglect.

My children only ever needed it when they just wanted to get up, it worked for us and they are healthy happy 2 year olds.

 

[AppleBlossom]

No I don't think it's wrong. After 6 months anyway.

My LO isn't emotionally scarred, she isn't afraid of me, she's not introverted, and for all of those who say "training is for dogs" I say LOL. Get a grip.

 

[Lightworker]

Kota- thank you for posting Claire Niala's link, I was on my mobile so I couldn't locate it properly.

If you read the article it really mirrors my perception of crying babies, and why I feel, crying should be the exception, not the norm. Kitty I know you insinuated that perhaps they were doing something sinister to shush the babies, but that's not the case at all.
With my own children, I have had so many comments of "how come your baby doesn't cry" - like its an expectation that babies should cry. This is not an attempt to sound smug, just another view point of crying, and whether or not it is/should be viewed as "normal."
My LOs always gave me cues, eg, if she is hungry, she would stir abit, then suck her fist, then make this sound "hefefef" then a short sharp "wah" then, if after that I still had not attended to her need for feeding, it would become a cry.

I hope I have made sense, I just wanted to put my point across. I know most people will not agree with me on this, but from an African point of view, I can assure you, the sound of a baby crying is not accepted as the norm. Sometimes people wonder if indeed there is a baby in the area lol.

For anyone that is reading this and wants more info on it I would strongly suggest reading my previous link - www.naturalchild.org - it is really a fantastic site with great articles on various aspects of parenting, which are very informative, and also challenge the more contemporary/modern views of babies and parenting. x

 

[indy and lara]

^^^ In response to this I would like to share our experience. Emma was with me constantly. I rocked her to sleep, I BF on demand, etc but she cried like a banshee at times. I was a devoted reader of the Baby Whisperer and hubby and I used to wonder why on earth Emma didn't give the different cries/ clues as it suggested. I realise now that she just didn't. She did cry and nothing would have changed that. That was the baby she was. She was not left to cry but was comforted immediately but nothing changed her crying pattern.

Whether or not this behaviour was acceptable to another culture or parenting method is pretty irrelevant to me. We are all different afterall and she did what she did. In the words of that much cliched line, babies don't read the parenting books.

 

[aliss]

^^^ In response to this I would like to share our experience. Emma was with me constantly. I rocked her to sleep, I BF on demand, etc but she cried like a banshee at times. I was a devoted reader of the Baby Whisperer and hubby and I used to wonder why on earth Emma didn't give the different cries/ clues as it suggested. I realise now that she just didn't. She did cry and nothing would have changed that. That was the baby she was. She was not left to cry but was comforted immediately but nothing changed her crying pattern.

Whether or not this behaviour was acceptable to another culture or parenting method is pretty irrelevant to me. We are all different afterall and she did what she did. In the words of that much cliched line, babies don't read the parenting books.

I hear you. Mine was the same. Upon reflection, a combination of personality/acid reflux/immature digestive system, shoulder pain. It was worse before I decided to adopt attachment parenting practices around 5 weeks. It truly changed our lives.

He still cried - but instead of me resenting his cries and looking at him with annoyance/anger ("why aren't you like others?"), wearing him/rocking him/cuddling 24/7 at least increased my emotional attachment to him.

A big part of attachment parenting, which many don't realize, is that it focuses less on the "bad effects" of crying on babies (which in the long-term is IMO rather debatable and I disagree with those who swear up & down that it WILL harm your child for life), but it helps strengthen the bond between mothers and babies and their cries, even if the baby wails like a banshee.

Dr Sears Fussy Baby book is for babies like that. It doesn't say it will cure constant crying or even make it significantly better, but it offers gentle ways to cope with it without breaking the bond.

 

[brunette&bubs]

Right,
my baby cried all the time the first 2 months even though I wore him, co-slept the first 2 months, BF on demand, etc...
He had an immature digestive system (born 3 weeks early), would wail for an hour straight just to pass gas or poop. I tried everything and changed my diet to see if that would help. Unfortunately the only thing that worked was waiting it out.
Sometimes he still cries when he has to poop or has gas.

I applaud people whose babies manage not to cry, but my baby cried 24/7 the first 3 months despite my efforts of EBF, co-sleeping, wearing, etc...
I realized it didn't matter if I did any of these things because he would be crying regardless.

But thats just my experience...

 

[PepsiChic]

no that doesn't offend me at all
i find it interesting.
my main goal for James was taking the paci away because it was causing more night wakings.
luckily he hasnt really cared/noticed and seems happier without it so now no sleep training for me is needed

in between the time i started this thread and now James stopped waking up for his paci and I really didnt need to do any CC. Once we didn't put him to sleep with it he didnt wake up wanting it.

Best decision I ever made was taking that dumb thing away.

If in the future I have sleep issues do you mind if i pm you about PUPD????

certainly chick.

As for the pacifier...we never gave my son one, and one of the biggest reasons was that i did a quick search on the baby club for the word pacifer and almost every thread that came up was another mum complaining of the lack of sleep they got every time they had to put the pacifer back in their Lo's mouth.


When my LO was abut 4 months old and we were doing PUPD we would give him a blanket, its a little square with a monkey head on top. he can chew, suck or just hold it. If he drops its easy for him to grab it again. At almost 12 months of age he LOVES his monkey. He laughs when he sees it, rubs it against his cheek, sucks it, chews it (hes teething atm) and i often find him fast asleep cuddling it in his crib.

 

[brunette&bubs]

we have something like that with a hippo on it but i don't know how i can encourage him to hold onto it or cuddle with it.
suggestions?