"Ethics" of just one or two...?

[overcomer79]

I think we are going to aim for 2. I'm one of 5 and enjoyed growing up in a big family but I don't really want as big a family myself.

I have no real objection to people having as many children as they want as long as they can support them financially. What I do resent (and I don't want to upset anyone here so I'm going to try and word this carefully) is people who see having lots of children as a meal ticket - ie bigger council house, extra benefits etc etc. I have no objection to people claiming what they need but when you see families with about 10 kids living in £500k houses specially built by the government just because a couple like breeding and sponging of the state it tends to raise my blood pressure a little I think there is taking the help that you need and then there is taking advantage of the system and having children just for the sake of getting more money.

As I said - I don't want to offend anyone - I myself grew up in a council house (3 bed) with 4 siblings and although my parents did both work full time they did get support from the government so I know how needed it can be. I guess there is a fine line between right and wrong in my view

I totally agree!!!! I don't think you will find me offended what so ever!!! I was so angry when that lady in Ca had 8 more kids when WE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, already support her previous six!!! The people that "require" federal assistance in nations like the UK and USA should be limited!!! Also, I don't think it is fair that our governments will support children of immigrants before ours! I used to live beside someone (immigrant) that had 8 kids in a 2 bedroom apartment and I know no one in that house worked!! I work and "academic" schedule (nine months but get paid over 12 months) and I never saw anyone from there leave long enough to go to work!!! My EX SIL had the ability to work. My brother is legally blind but he still works part time and draws disability to support his children. My EX SIL had at least 10 jobs in the last three years and got fired from every single one of them!!!!! She left my brother for another man (who worked at Macdonalds) and conned him into paying to have her IUD removed just so she can have her meal ticket!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh man, should have never got me started!

Anyway, to the initial question lol, we plan on having 2. I want mine spaced out about 3 years to give me time to adjust to motherhood. Then again, I had fertility issues and it took me three years to conceive James, so that might not be up to me. OH was an only child and he still has the "living for myself" mentality. He didn't have siblings to spend time with or anything whereas I had a brother and it has been a big transition for an equal compromise about how time is spent so I think for me personally 2 is a must so they can have that social interaction at home (with someone other than mommy and daddy and doggie ).

 

[Aunty E]

I grew up as one of five, and it made me very very determined to have two childen, max. I just don't think that some people (and I am one of them) can give enough attention to each child if they have more than that. I am sure that there are people who can, and good luck to them, but I'm not one of them and I want my kids to feel equally loved and nurtured. I'm pretty sure that some of my siblings feel they got the rough end of the deal, and frankly, I agree with them. My parents didn't have the time or resources (practical and emotional) to deal with five kids, and it's only by the grace of God that we didn't turn out worse than we did. We're all kind of rubbing along ok now, but there's been a lot of heartache and misery along the way, a lot of which could have been avoided if my parents had been paying a bit more attention to their children as individuals, not just on the latest baby.

Rant over. sorry. In defence of large families, I know a couple of WONDERFUL big families, where everyone pulls together and it works brilliantly. mine wasn't one of them, that's all.

 

[nikky0907]

Before Lola I didn't want to have children at all. More because of personal than global reasons.... But now I've had her (and I am sooooo glad I did) that will be it for me.

Although I wouldn't say that we are overpopluating the world. That depends on the country - you have China where they had to limit the number of children to just one per family because of overpopulation and then you have certain countries (of developed world) where the number of retired people, elderly, is way higher than the number of the 'active' residents (those of a working age).


As long as you can actually support your children financially it's no one's but your own business how many you plan to have. If you can't support them....then ethics comes into the question.

 

[Pyrrhic]

Although I hate the idea of having to go through a labour again I will be having one more. But personally for me one more is plenty. I would like Grace to have a sibling. But there are 3 of us, me and 2 sisters and there was always 2 ganging up on the other one. I think I would just like a small family but I know families who have loads of children and if that's what they want to do then fair enough. I don't think there should be a limit on how many kids you can have x

same here, I am the oldest of 3 girls and was bullied by them for most of my teenage years

See I was one of four, and whenever my brothers would argue I would always step in and break it up and take the side of the one who was being picked on. There was always someone on your side when you're one of 4 kids.

 

[Pyrrhic]

I have no real objection to people having as many children as they want as long as they can support them financially.

Agree. I'd love to have 4/5 and luckily OH and I can provide for that many children.

 

[amylw1]

i personally didnt want children, i wanted a career. BUT when my back and knee problems flared back up and i was having more time off sick than i was at work and got the option hand in notice or be sacked nearly 8yrs ago, i sat and thought about things and it was a case of if i'm going to be at home i may as well do something and then decided to have 1 child.

me and now ex split up and i got a new hubby and we talked about a baby and soon after got 1. as far as i was concerned 2 kids was plenty but health problems (endometriosis) meant that i may nnot be able to have anymore kids if i waited so we set about trying for number 3 and its on its way.

this is definately the last and i have already spoken to gynea about full hystorectomy as soon as possible to get rid of the endo.


i have been tracing my family tree for many years and alot of my family was very big - 2nd grt grandparetns had 14 kids! i think they are mad, but it was obviously what they wanted. i dont have issues with those that have loads as long as they look after them.

 

[ellie]

Interesting!

Throughout my twenties I was adamant I didn't want kids (mainly) because I felt the world was in huge trouble and didn't want to 'add to the overpopulation'! However in hindsight I think it was more about being with a man that I just couldn't see as a father to my children

From 30 onwards when I was with (now!) OH I immediately wanted kids with him. We are both hugely conscious about the impact that humans, especially massively unsustainably numbers of humans, have had on our planet and it often keeps me awake at night that it's totally f*ked and is it really responsible to bring children into it when who knows what massive changes they might have to deal with in the not too distant future?

On the other hand, I am happier than I've ever been to finally be pregnant and we want 2 kids if we possibly can, for some of the reasons others have stated (it gives them a support system, models of socialisation and sharing and learning). If we weren't so decrepit now we may have aimed for more, but we will be lucky to have 2 (or even this one!). OH and I both feel sure that we can bring them up in a responsible and considerate way and with an awareness of how their actions will affect everyone else and the world. Hopefully it might also spur us on to do more in terms of changing the way we do things like trying to live more sustainably, as it's now for their future not just ours.

If I have a problem with people with large families it's if they don't do that and kids grow up with no sense of responsibility or wider awareness. But that can happen in small families too! I think we all just have to consider the wider issues with how we bring up our kids and what values they will have, and together we can all make a better world!!! (is that a song?)

 

[adzuki]

I am thinking 2 kids - with a space in between (I know I won't be the best parent I can be if they are too close in age), and for the reasons you cited, TL, I am trying to get my DH to consider adoption from a developing country for our second (though his parents would be very upset!). I do think that birth rates in developed countries are dropping, and those in undevelopped countries are rising (especially in those that have questionable child labour laws), so this is my way of wanting to make a small impact. However, the problem I think is bigger than this - as long as we are living in a consumer-driven world, I think there will always be issues - we need people to work cheaply in order to produce the amount of goods we want to consume at the price we want. Lots of people to work in factories means lots of babies. When I was in Cambodia, I volunteered at a school/orphanage that helped children who lived in and around the garbage dumps - life expectancy was so short there, that they all tried to have as many kids as possible to scavenge to support the family. The place I volunteered with would give the family a bag of rice in exchange for letting their child come to school for the morning. It was crazy - but these kids looked for and recycled all the metal and usable plastic to be sent to all the factories in Cambodia that produce goods for us mostly.

It's a sad, systemic problem. Anyone want to go back to the pioneer days though???


A

 

[CamoQueen]

I'd like to top off at 2, but DH really wants 3, so it'll probably end up being 3 kids for us. He grew up with his 2 brothers and I had my 1 brother, so go figure, huh? We'll be trying starting next year, so that David and his brother/sister are about 2 years apart in age, so they have more of a chance to play together and share common experiences. Though I honestly worry about my ability to cope as a mom with two young kids, and eventually three? Especially as my husband deploys from time to time, leaving me for months at a time. Oh, I shudder to think.

I don't know how some families do it with 5 or 6 or, God forbid, 12 or 13. That is insane to me; I personally couldn't cope. Though my choice to have my certain number of kids is strictly personal, not environmentally based. Not to say that i haven't taken my impact into consideration, by having a third child... I guess I'm just selfish enough to say that our desire for another kid trumps environmental worries. Boy, does that sound selfish.... true, though.

 

[TigerLady]

Thank you, Ladies, for your honest answers!

I just keep going back and forth. But I am very leary of having just one child -- for all the reasons you smart ladies have stated. My sister is my best friend (though it wasn't that way growing up!) and my OH is very close to his brother. Everytime he brings up getting snipped, that is the argument I make -- Do you want to deny your child that close sibling relationship? It always makes him think twice.

He wants just one (maybe two) because he wants to support them in the best manner possible. He wants to be able to give them everything they need -- finanically and emotionally. He just feels he can't do that with too many. And I agree.

But just one? I am so afraid of the "spoiled only child" cliche. I don't personally know that many only children, so I don't know how true that cliche is. And to complicate matters, the environmentally conscience part of me knows that it would be a wise decision to only have one.

I agree that the developed world has a lower birth rate. But I don't feel like that completely lets me off the hook. I was very very lucky to be born where I was -- but I don't feel like that allows me to turn a blind eye to the world as a whole. Responsibility and action has to start SOMEwhere -- why not with me?

So the "selfish" (want more kids for my own reasons) part of me is at war with the more globally conscience side of myself.

Maybe I should just let nature take its course and see if we end up with two? I dunno!

 

[applegirl]

DON'T encourage DH to get snipped. It is too permanent. Well - that is just my thinking anyhow... why don't you see how you feel after this baby is born. Give it six months or a year after otter's birth and talk about it together.

Maybe you need to start a 'waiting to try' journal for your 2nd, along with your preggo journal!!!!!!

 

[TigerLady]

HAHA! Maybe you are right, Apple... I'll have journals everywhere!

 

[rubywoo77]

I have always wanted children, from a young age, this is my first and although this pregnancy hasn't been a barrel of laughs (not the pregnancy itself just all the other crap) I still want to have more than 1.

I am 1 of 4 although I was an only child for a long time and I hated it, I always wanted siblings like the rest of my friends and wider family. Both hubbie and I want a largish family - for some strange reason I don't want to have an odd number and we definitely want more than 2 so god willing maybe we will end up with 4. I think if you are emotionally and financially able to provide for your children then it should be up to the couple how big a family they have.

 

[Hevz]

I have 4 children and don't plan on having anymore. We always said we wanted 3 or 4 but swayed more towards 4.

I love my kids and they're my whole world, my husband works full time, I'm a full time Mummy and we pay our way so I think the decision is ours to make. I think that's what's important in my life not what "could be" in hundreds of years

 

[lindypops]

I have an older sister, who I'm not particularly close to, and everyone in my family seems to have two: me and my sister, her two, my mum and aunt, my dad and uncle, my two cousins, one of them has two kids...

For that reason I want three! Well, on my first, definitely want two and if we get two girls I'd definitely try for a boy. If we get another girl, I don't think we'd go for four. And if we have a boy next time I may reconsider.

My best friend lived in China for five years - she says that the one child policy has made China a nation of 'little emperors' - not only has it disturbed the natural gender balance but it has left young people up to the age of 30 apparently much less likely to be able to empathise with each other/society, as they don't have family experience of doing this, being only children.

 

[lesleyann]

I can see its from being alsmot an only child and a child with a brother since for 12 years we lived apart..

I loved the fact i got everything i wanted being an only child in the house but once i moved in with my brother and mum and dad there was always someone to talk to to, keep secrets with and play games with if i was bored.

So i would have to say i would like 2 maybe more if we could afford it and everything.

 

[TigerLady]

Thank you for all the insight, Ladies. Reading about how important sibs are to everyone just makes me more certain I want to give that to my lil' boy. I really think I need to make sure OH knows there is a "no snipping" policy in place until we have 2!!

 

[aidensxmomma]

This is an interesting topic!

I want 3-5 kids. I already have one and am pregnant with #2, so I'm almost already there. However, how many more kids I have depends on how everything works out in the next few years. My OH and I are barely getting by now, and with a second it will be even more difficult. If we can (eventually) get really good jobs and a nice house then it will probably be 4 or 5 kids. Our reasons are purely selfish. I grew up with a younger brother (2 1/2 years younger) and a younger step-brother (2 years younger). I get along with my brother very well. It was always nice when I was younger to have someone to play with and go through everything with. My step-brother was a whole different case, though. But that's a whole different story on it's own. My OH grew up with 3 siblings, and older brother (10 years older), an older sister (5 years older), and a younger sister (2 years younger). He has a very good relationship with his older sister and enjoyed his childhood with his siblings. I never wanted less than two kids. I'm not saying this to be offensive, but every only child I have known has been a spoiled brat and a pain in the a**. Now, I'm not saying every only child is like that, but the ones I know are.

Sorry that this is so long, btw.

 

[Rebaby]

OH and i are both keen to have a big family, when i say big i don't mean huge. Ideally, if we got our own way (which of course we may not) we'd like four.

But i am saying this not yet having given birth to our first...so i guess we'll see how it all goes

I find this a really interesting topic and have enjoyed reading everyone's replies.

I think the way in which you bring up your children and the environment you provide for them is the most important consideration. Being able to provide financially for them as well as being there for them emotionally, and having them for the 'right' reasons, whatever that might mean to you as a couple.

I know everyone is different but for us the decision to start trying for a family came out of us both feeling ready and knowing we have lots of love to give and experiences we want to share with our children, things we want to show them etc. I know it is so personal but i find it difficult to get my head around those people for whom children are a way to 'patch up a relationship' or 'keep a man', or 'get a house' or even 'we're married now and kids is what you do next' kind of mentality.

I am the eldest of four, although the age gaps between us all are huge (my mum re-married half way through!) so certainly in regards to the younger two, i have more of an 'aunty' than 'big sister' sort of role. OH is the eldest of three with smaller gaps, and enjoyed that role, although his (middle) sister i think had some problems with being the middle of three.

I don't know if we will get our wish for four children but that is our plan for now and we'll see what happens in the future.

 

[nikky0907]

My sister is very important to me. There is 5 years between us (I consider it a small age gap) and we are very close despite being totally different.

However my Lola is going to grow up as an only child. Even if I change my mind about not having another baby she will still be atleast 15 when that hypotetical sibling is born.
The circumstances are the way they are and I don't feel sorry for it...
In the end it all comes down to a child's personality whether they get along or not. Some have small age gaps and are at each others throats and others get along perfectly. You never know how it will turn out.