experiences after zero fertilization in IVF

[Plex]

Sorry if this is short, I cant write much at the moment.

As the title says really, im looking for possible reasons behind none of our eggs fertilizing.

Back story -

last ivf - 3 eggs collected - 1 over mature

of the 2 left, both fertilized

1 transfered and one frozen at day 5 blast rating AB

That cycle resulted in a chemical pregnancy due to clotting factors

this cycle -

9 egg retrieved 8 mature, embryologist said that eggs were great quality as was hubbies sperm it just seemed as if the sperm were swimming around the egg ie 'not binding' some sperm were still alive so they would see what happens over the next day or so and call me monday for an update - he said that fertilization at this point is EXTREMELY RARE....great I did ask if they could perfom icsi at this stage as ive heard of rescue icsi but he said no. gutted

Embryologist said that it was a shock for them as my last cycle we had a 90% fert rate. What went wrong??

Any feedback like the types of questions you asked/ clinic responses etc would be greatly received also any other info you can think of to do with this would be great - im not in a great frame of mind at the moment

thanks for reading x

 

[Plex]

Im going to write an email to my consultant asking relevant questions, so far I have -

The obvious - what went wrong?

Is it possible for this to be a lab error?

Is it possible for the shell of my eggs to be too hard for the sperm on just this cycle as last time they fertilized with no problem.

...thats all i have for now x

 

[Rurin]

Hi Plex... so so sorry you had zero fertilisation this cycle. To fall at this point feels like you've been cheated out of the cycle.
As you probably remember we had zero fertilisation our first round but our sperm did bind to the eggs they just didn't get in. As you have had fertilisation before I expect the doc will say it was just super horribly unlucky and suggest you do ICSI next time. They don't really know why it happens. Doc told us in the old days before ICSI they would try ivf again and 50 % of the time things were fine 50% would have no fert. But now they do ICSI to avoid a repeat.

 

[nobump]

I had no eggs to transfer on my first cycle. Did not respond well to meds. 2 eggs collected after 2 weeks of stims. One was not mature enough other fertalised abnormal. We had ICSI. It is heart breaking. Took time to start again, not sure if reaults will bw any better this time for us but I have low AMH. The number of eggs you produce was good and assuming sperm ok ICSI hopefully will produce more fertalised eggs next time. But give yourself time to recover physically and emotionally.
Xx

 

[Blythe]

Plex - you will see my other reply to you on the other thread.

i have been thinking about you and there is little i can say to help. This is an awful way for this treatment to fail. I have found it very difficult to reconcile the events in my mind and find a way forward. I would have found it easier to move forward if i had at least had a bfn at the end of the 2ww.... To go through all of this without at least a chance of conception is simply devastating.

On a physical/mental level it will take a few days to recover from the shock of having such a high [all those eggs] to taking that awful call the next day. Once i had stopped crying i started putting together a new plan to try and make this happen. I'm still working out bits of it and deciding whether it will involve any more assisted fertility treatments. Its quite difficult to make a plan when i have been trying for so long but i am and it is helping.

my consultant told me i had had the perfect response and that he thought ICSI would work for us next time. WTF....is he paying for it then???? NO. I have had conflicting advice from my clinic and i am awaiting a formal response...i will let you know if it provides any useful insight for cases such as this. we simply do not have the funds to justify repeated treatments. Not to mention the emotional toll.....I simply had idea how taxing IVF could be....i started in February this year and had to abandon the LP then stated up again using SP eventually having EC last month. The months of build up and then to be told zero fertilisation is an awful thing to go through.

Plex - i believe that my issue was to do with the clinic but are they going to admit that they may have over-stimmed me for too long....No. I researched this stuff to death when i went through it last month and sometimes it just happens and women go on to have BFPs after, either through IVF or naturally. I went through a period of beating myself up because i have sugar in my tea and i thought the sugar makes the shells hard....there is no joy to be found down that route so i stopped it. Like you i have a young child and when i conceived him i was far from healthy.

This lady is very helpful and you can post and she usually answers within a couple of days. She provides honest [sometimes unwelcome [in my case at least] answers but she knows her stuff:
https://fertilitylabinsider.com/2010/06/ivf-disasters-no-fertilization/

As i mentioned i should hear back formally from my clinic next week and i will let you know if they say anything helpful. As the consultation the week after EC, the consultant said IUI was pointless and that if i could not afford another round with ICSI then TTC naturally was my best bet as i had done it before.

One thing i wanted to know was whether there had been attempted fertilisation...had the sperm moved towards the eggs or had they just repelled each other......my consultant had not discussed with embryologist so he did not really know and just fobbed me off.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this

 

[Blythe]

Rurin

i was looking at your signature and wondered whether the protocol you used for IVF 1 and IVF 2 was different as you had so many more eggs with the second. if different protocol or whether you changed anything you did/supplements etc....do you mind sharing?

 

[Plex]

Thank you girls its a truely shitty situation to be in isnt it? I feel so damned depressed I cant even bring myself to do ANYTHING I am however a proactive sort of person and have been writing some more questions to ask -

*Can you confirm the quality of our eggs/sperm? (i want them to actually say it again that they were good quality)

*Thickness of the egg shell - was this the problem?

*Why did we have a good fertilization rate in Jan (90%) this year but not now?

*At what point does rescue icsi become non feesable - I asked during the phone call on Sat (1pm) but was told it was not an option at this stage.

*Was there a problem with the media culture or lab conditions/human error?

*Did anyone else have the same problem that had collection on the same day as us?

*Will this be investigated and what tests will be performed to find out why it didnt work?

* Is it possible for the egg to fertilize after the 16-18 hour check by the embryologists?

*What next?

What do you all think to these questions? Is there anything else you would ask?

Blythe - Thanks for that link, ive posted my question on there (not all of these though didnt want to clog up the page) xx

 

[Rurin]

Hi Blyth
I did short protocol both times. They upped my dose of gonal f from 150 to 225. I think everyone was surprised how many eggs there were 2nd time. Miraculously I had no OHSS.
My DH sperm dna frag test came out at 21% which was according to the doc fine and at the high end of normal but said we could take supplements if we wanted so DH started taking high dose vitamin E and C about 8 weeks before EC.
I remember googling so much after our failed cycle and feeling all the hurt and confusion trying to find a reason. But doc told us not to lose hope and I'm so thankful we gave ICSI a try. It was worth every penny. I know you guys will find the strength you need and that hope will return. Xx

 

[Rurin]

Oh we also used the embryoscope second time.
Plex that looks like all the right questions to ask. Big hugs to you too.

 

[Plex]

we used the embryoscope too although they dont use it until fertilization has occured unfortunately- I have the footage from my last cycle and it starts at 18hrs. The embryoscope i do think is worth every penny though - i constantly look at the footage its amazing to watch!

Im considering getting a loan for another cycle as we just cant afford another at the moment we already borrowed money from my mother (4000) which we have to pay back. I just wish it wasnt so expensive! xx

 

[Rurin]

It is sooo expensive. I hope all the funds come together for you for another shot cuz it sounds like you responded so well with 9 eggs. When's your follow up appointment?

 

[Plex]

We don't have one scheduled yet - we're waiting for the embryologists call on Monday, then at least we'll know where we stand. It's a possibility that we will be able to at least have my frozen blast transferred so that's something. Either way I will send an email to my consultant asking those questions. I am praying against everything that something happens over the weekend. Although I'm not deluding myself as I'm prepared to hear there been no change. I spoke to my mum and she said we cud keep the money and pay her back when we can, which is a big help. I think the next week will decide every thing xxx

 

[Plex]

NOT that im clock watching.........BUUUUUUUUUT its now 12.30pm and I STILL havent had a call. Im going outta my mind!!!!!!! My mum says that theyre probably all sat round discussing my case...doesnt bode well

 

[Plex]

thinking about it i cant remember if they will call me or they want me to call them???!!!???

 

[Rurin]

oh bless you...

They always called me when they were doing the daily -'has anything changed' calls.

Hope you hear soon xx

 

[lizzie78]

Plex, just wanted to let you know I'm stalking you here and waiting to hear what they have to say xxx

 

[Plex]

Thanks girls im going just a teeny bit stir crazy now STILL NO CALL!!

getting tied of waiting now xx

 

[Plex]

Think im just gunna go out, fed up of wasting time inside waiting for a dam call! Gunna go round my mums and have a hug At least they have my mobile number!

Hopefully I can update something later xx

 

[Briss]

Plex, I am very sorry you are going through this. I was also in shock when we were told none fertilised. so devastating. I had 2 natural/mild stim IVFs last year due to high FSH, both ICSI due to male factor. First cycle we had 2 follicles and one egg collected (I have a cyst on the right side so they could not retrieve from that ovary), transferred on day 3 and ended in chemical. I was actually very hopeful as this is the first time at least something was trying to happen. I did both cycles at Create in London and they told me I responded well so we could increase stims and moved me from menopur to Gonal F. this time I had 3 follicles but only 2 were seen at EC. My tempt went up that morning and I just knew I ovulated despite cetroitde etc. They should have converted it into IUi but instead they went on and got 2 eggs, one immature and one did not fertilise. The embryologist thought the quality of the egg was not good probably due to stims because on lower stims the quality was good. The other doc said my oestrogen was very high enough for more than 3 good quality eggs and my blood flow was excellent – also indirectly tells them about the good quality eggs so that's why they proceeded with EC thinking they will get perfect eggs but alas. They also said it could be the sperm.

I personally blame the clinic, they should have done IUi instead when they saw they lost one out of three eggs. and possibly something was not right during stims that affected egg quality. it can obviously just be the sperm factor because even with ICSI you cannot guarantee that you can pick a healthy sperm that's why I want to do IMSI next time (we have low morphology).

In your case they should have done split IVF/ICSI fertilisation half IVF and half ICSI but if this was down to poor egg quality due to stims that you would probably get the same outcome. I have not heard of rescue icsi, they told me if we go ICSI there is no turning back to IVF as they are taking out the outer layer of the egg and the egg is no longer suitable for IVF and vice versa if the egg did not fertilise with IVF for some reason they could not go ahead the next day to try and remove the outer layer to fertilise it with ICSI. They did check my egg two days after EC but it did not progress so that was the end. I was told that sometimes they catch up and fertilise slightly later than normal but again it's rare that this egg with result in a healthy embryo even if it fertilises later. Timing is everything.

I also sometimes think they mess up things in the lab and just never mention it to people. there is no way you can check and it's so easy to destroy these little sells who knows it could have been an accident in the lab.

Take some time to recover and focus on improving egg quality with food/supps etc. all the stim meds seriously deplete your body's reserves. definitely go for a review and ask questions i.e. why not ICSI? after my review my clinic offered a discount on our next treatment. I am not going there again after 2 failed cycles but this was an indication that they indirectly accepted their responsibility. obviously they will never admit that.

 

[Plex]

What awful treatment you had Briss If they were willing to pay for half of your next cycle then i agree they were admitting liability, surely a sign of guilt. Where are you going for this next treatment and will they be doing anything different in your protocol?

I think some calls in the lab and during treatment are guesses most of the time as they never know whats going to happen in each individual case. Sucks to be us though, the ones that get the poo end of the stick After investing so much time, emotionally, physically and financially, it hurts xx