fed up of being told breast is best!!!

[winegums]

genuine question?!
one thing i am perplexed at is why, say 60 years ago people NEVER mentioned that they breastfed, they just did it. i presume the majority of women did it then. but now it seems that a lot of people have made it high profile... is it just because formula feeding had a huge resurgence in the time inbetween?

breastfeeding used to be 'normal' but it isnt anymore
it is the 'better' option where there didn't really used to be an option.
There are many reasons people prefer formula now:
people thinking boobs are for pleasure not for feeding their babys
people working so quickly after baby and its so much easier than expressing
free tokens from the government to use for baby milk so that means they dont have to bother bf and they dont have to spend money on ff!!!

formula used to be availble for women that genuinely COULDN'T breastfeed due to blood diseases etc but now everyone uses it. people have become out of touch with breastfeeding, whereas before women would help and support each other they would all be doing the same thing. now theres some divide between ff and bf and many bf dont get the support they need

 

[booflebump]

Just wanted to add too that i think a lot of women who try to BF GENUINELY believe that they are not producing enough milk,simply because they expect their bubs to feed the same as FF bubs do,or because of the crazy logic that a baby who feeds frequently isn't getting enough.

And this could be prevented with education - but it seems that while BF is being rammed down peoples throats, the real, vital, truthful information isnt able to filter through

 

[izzysmummy]

Sorry, I'm not offended by it. I don't get offended by anyone challenging the way I parent my child. Nobody has the right to tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing so why would I waste my time listening to them and worrying about it. I do what I think is right for me and my child. End of story. I just get fed up when people try and shoot down FFers, even the ones that really tried Bfing and just couldn't do it and make us feel like failures. Like, Grace genuinely wasn't getting enough milk. It's not an excuse because I don't need to make excuses for my parenting decisions. But someone then telling me that actually, I was wrong. It annoys me rather than offends me tbh.

Anyway, FOB has been a complete pain in the arse today so it's put me in a bad mood so sorry if I seem a bit touchy lol

glad your not offended you just sounded like you were!
again i was just giving info
and no one on here has 'challenged' your parenting or told you what you should or should not be doing.
You may not need an excuse why you ff and thats fine. i dont need an excuse why i ff either, i know my reasons and thats all that matters to me.
who told you that you were wrong? i didn't say you were wrong that your baby is hungry i said that most babys are the more you feed them the more milk produced to satisfy them. it does take a while for more milk to be produced and after the first couple of weeks many people find that they and the baby start settling down. it can be a bit all over the place for the first couple of weeks

Someone mentioned that your breasts are never empty so you can't say your child isn't getting enough milk as a reason to stop BFing. I tried pumping and everything, my supply just wasn't enough. She would wake up to 8 times in the night looking for food and she would scream (and I would cry) every single feed without fail. The HV checked her latch and told me it was perfect and that she might just not be getting enough which is why she told me to pump for a day or so to try and stimulate my supply. It just didn't work and I stopped. She was very understanding after sounding a bit disappointed. I told her the reasons why I'd stopped and she said ok. A few weeks later, even on formula she was still waking in the night up to around 6 times in the night looking for food which is when the HV suggested hungrier baby milk and anytime I mentioned her feeding habits at the weighing clinic they would say that she is obviously just a hungry baby. You get babies that aren't interested in feeding. Others, like Grace, just enjoyed the process of it all and as long as they weren't being overfed (either with breast or formula fed) then it was ok.

My HV's and MW's were pretty supportive with BFing and were willing to give me any help I needed. It was FOB and certain members of his family that made me feel like a failure

Our BF advisor said that even pumping or hand stimulating without actually getting milk out will still stimulate your body to make more milk in a day or 2. On the days my daughter was having a growth spurt i would sit and cry as my boobs felt completely empty and she just wanted to be on all the time, a few days later i had more milk than i knew what to do with so expressed it a froze it. I also think a lot of it comes down to the baby as well. My daughter was a very efficient feeder on and off in 5 mins, i was lucky my milk supply was very good. I suppose sucking from a bottle is a damn sight easier than latching onto a boobie! (Not that i have tried it! ) Less effort needed for the same thing

 

[winegums]

I didn't have a clue . Aidan didn't seem to know either or maybe I was just postioning him wrong. Anyway my point is they need to know how to show a latch etc. As like blah said some women it doesn't come naturaly too and it diesn't help when you get comments of trained proffesional like "Just feed him" Looking at me like I was stupid

The one that was a real help was just after I had given birth literally and the trained MW went out the room for a few minutes and the student helped me get a latch bless her. She seemed to know what she was doing and she was around my age too. Infact the most lovely ones during my whole labour were the students
xx

you know what. i think its a jaded proffession. the students always seem the best to me lol the older ones seem distant and bitter LOL sorry but true. a student was the ONLY midwive who told me my baby was breech. all the other midwives were like 'your just a student dont be stupid' had a scan and voila the student was the only one that had paid enough attention to realise quite an obvious fact lol.

some midwives are awful at bfing help. after my c section i laid there in and out of sleep still half out of it on drugs for hours. about 8 hours after the birth i woke to screaming and buzzed for the midwife. i still couldnt hardly move my body let alone get my baby out. she actually screamed at me for not bfing him she was like 'poor mite starved half to death'. well usually i would have told her where to stick it but laying there in pain and feeling like i nearly killed my own baby for being too 'lazy' to feed him and half out of it on painkillers etc i just laid there crying while she told me i should just ff.

 

[xUniquex]

genuine question?!
one thing i am perplexed at is why, say 60 years ago people NEVER seemed to mention that they breastfed, they just did it. i presume the majority of women did it then. but now it seems that a lot of people have made it high profile... is it just because formula feeding had a huge resurgence in the time inbetween?

The reason that Formula came about to be so common is because after the second world war doctors decided that they knew when a baby should /shouldn't feed.The magic '4 hourly' feed appeared from god knows where and women were told to feed their babies every four hours and no more,no less.

Not suprisingly most womens milk dried up to the point where baby was not getting enough and lots of babies became malnourished because as we all know BF is only successful if fed on demand.

So forumla was re-engineered to suit babies as best as possible (it was originally used for calves who were abandoned by their mums) and women were given formula to help sustain their children.

It was believed for a long time that babies should feed 4 hourly and so formula became the 'norm' and BF pretty much died out.

So the reason that so many years ago people just BF is because that was all that was really available!It was all that people had ever known and rightly so because how else did the human race survive all these years?

The rich people had wet nurses .. which may be why it was associated with peasants..

 

[fuzzylu]

Just wanted to clarify that a newborns stomach only needs 7ml of milk to fill it,but a coating of just 5ml of Breast Milk is enough to satisfy baby until their next feed.

Sorry to be a nit picker but i like the facts to be accurate!

Just wanted to add too that i think a lot of women who try to BF GENUINELY believe that they are not producing enough milk,simply because they expect their bubs to feed the same as FF bubs do,or because of the crazy logic that a baby who feeds frequently isn't getting enough.


This can all be overcome by education,which unfortunately some dont want as they feel they are having it 'rammed down their throat',usually those who do want info dont get it or struggle to get it!

The fact is that women are being failed again and again by HP's ,family members and friends !

And whoever it was that said some women leave their babies on the breast for an easy life is talking rubbish!!Which is easier?Having the baby suckling your breast or shoving a dummy in its mouth?

I have to agree with this, education is the key and midwives unfortunatly fail in this department, maybe its due to pressure on their time or the fact they are forced to promote breastfeeding in a certian way im not sure. but the way in which breastfeeding info is given to women is how i believe puts so many women off. women really do think breastfeeding is rammed at them at every opertunity and in a way it is. yes we all know it has the best benifits but surly a better way to deliver this information is whats needed. only problem is no one seams to have discovered the best way to educate women yet.

xxx

 

[trumpetbum]

I think there is a real lack of updated training and even in lots of cases interest in updating in midwives who have been practicing for a long time.
The student midwives that I know are actually very knowledgable although some, just like some nurses I've trained beside, carry baggage from their own experiences into their own practice and professional opinions.
I did a shift on a postnatal ward last year where the midwives on the ward were actually peed off at a seventeen year old for taking up so much of their time by needing support. I offered to help her with breastfeeding support while I was there and as I was trained as a peer support they were happy to let me. This poor girl was like a deer caught in the headlights. She didn't know when it was ok to pick up her baby, whether she was feeding her right, how to change her little nappy. I was appalled and took her through the basics. They weren't even busy, for me used to an adult medical ward it was a bloody breeze. I'm not saying this to generalise about the support given, just pointing out that it's not always the training that falls short but it can be the willingness of the individual HCP to put the effort in to the training or the practice, particularly when it comes to those women who they assume will fail anyway.
This reminds me, a few weeks ago after taking a mum and her new baby from labour suite to postnatal ward another midwife said to me. 'She'll have a hard time of it, he's a big hungry one and her breasts are too big and very droopy.' Talk about setting women up to fail!!!

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

I didn't have a clue . Aidan didn't seem to know either or maybe I was just postioning him wrong. Anyway my point is they need to know how to show a latch etc. As like blah said some women it doesn't come naturaly too and it diesn't help when you get comments of trained proffesional like "Just feed him" Looking at me like I was stupid

The one that was a real help was just after I had given birth literally and the trained MW went out the room for a few minutes and the student helped me get a latch bless her. She seemed to know what she was doing and she was around my age too. Infact the most lovely ones during my whole labour were the students
xx

you know what. i think its a jaded proffession. the students always seem the best to me lol the older ones seem distant and bitter LOL sorry but true. a student was the ONLY midwive who told me my baby was breech. all the other midwives were like 'your just a student dont be stupid' had a scan and voila the student was the only one that had paid enough attention to realise quite an obvious fact lol.

some midwives are awful at bfing help. after my c section i laid there in and out of sleep still half out of it on drugs for hours. about 8 hours after the birth i woke to screaming and buzzed for the midwife. i still couldnt hardly move my body let alone get my baby out. she actually screamed at me for not bfing him she was like 'poor mite starved half to death'. well usually i would have told her where to stick it but laying there in pain and feeling like i nearly killed my own baby for being too 'lazy' to feed him and half out of it on painkillers etc i just laid there crying while she told me i should just ff.

. That sounds horrible

I agree though the students are the ones that seem to pay more attention, mine actually delivered Aidan with another MW's guidance and she was like "Your amazing, yoru doing so well sweetheart" being really supportive while I was screaming at her I couldn't push and to pull She was lovely and I commented to the trained MW how good she was and that she will make an amazing MW. I hope she delivers my next one lol. She sat with me while Aidan had his first feed aswell and told me on the ward to buzz if I needed any help. Shame it didn't happen as I enjoyed that first feed. I can't explain the feeling but it was amazing
xx
xx

 

[izzysmummy]

I didn't have a clue . Aidan didn't seem to know either or maybe I was just postioning him wrong. Anyway my point is they need to know how to show a latch etc. As like blah said some women it doesn't come naturaly too and it diesn't help when you get comments of trained proffesional like "Just feed him" Looking at me like I was stupid

The one that was a real help was just after I had given birth literally and the trained MW went out the room for a few minutes and the student helped me get a latch bless her. She seemed to know what she was doing and she was around my age too. Infact the most lovely ones during my whole labour were the students
xx

I was really stressed for the first few weeks as i was very very sore due to baby been tongue tied, i would get upset at the start of the feed as it was killing me to have her on. Babies do pick up on our stress and anxiety so if we are not shown right or are worried about something, latching baby on right is bloody hard! My daughters favourite side was on my left boob, i had to feed her rugby ball style when i was feeding her from the right, just so she would feed from that side. She would not feed laid across my front from the right only if she was under my right arm so laid on her right side as oppose to her left! Monkey.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

Any of you BF ladies fancy moving in with me when I have another one just to get me going
xx

 

[winegums]

do you know this thread is really making me panic as i SO want to bf in future and it's reminding me how bloody hard it was lol im terrified. BUT one thing i will be doing is contacting breastfeeding workers before i give birth and tell them about last time and explain that im worried and see if i can get some support set up for after the birth! maybe ill be more relaxed then.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

I hope that helps hun, and you don't worry
xx

 

[Blah11]

Is BF a newborn as hard to do if you're still BFing a toddler?

 

[alio]

anyway, as far as the op goes i do agree the support for ff'ers and propective ff'ers should equate to support for bf'ers. a lady in my town put herself in front of a train recently due to pressure on her from professionals to breastfeed when she didn't want to. she was made to feel like a failure... the only person who was really failed in this was the 9 week old baby she left behind. i do wonder what would happen if she'd been offered support to embrace her choice without guilt. nothing is worth that. NOTHING.

 

[Blah11]

oh wow alio that's horrendous How terribly sad. There must have been PND and some other issues though surely?

 

[hayzeb]

Just wanted to clarify that a newborns stomach only needs 7ml of milk to fill it,but a coating of just 5ml of Breast Milk is enough to satisfy baby until their next feed.

Sorry to be a nit picker but i like the facts to be accurate!

Just wanted to add too that i think a lot of women who try to BF GENUINELY believe that they are not producing enough milk,simply because they expect their bubs to feed the same as FF bubs do,or because of the crazy logic that a baby who feeds frequently isn't getting enough.


This can all be overcome by education,which unfortunately some dont want as they feel they are having it 'rammed down their throat',usually those who do want info dont get it or struggle to get it!

The fact is that women are being failed again and again by HP's ,family members and friends !

And whoever it was that said some women leave their babies on the breast for an easy life is talking rubbish!!Which is easier?Having the baby suckling your breast or shoving a dummy in its mouth?

Double

For that reason I am now ducking out of this thread.........

 

[fuzzylu]

I think there is a real lack of updated training and even in lots of cases interest in updating in midwives who have been practicing for a long time.
The student midwives that I know are actually very knowledgable although some, just like some nurses I've trained beside, carry baggage from their own experiences into their own practice and professional opinions.
I did a shift on a postnatal ward last year where the midwives on the ward were actually peed off at a seventeen year old for taking up so much of their time by needing support. I offered to help her with breastfeeding support while I was there and as I was trained as a peer support they were happy to let me. This poor girl was like a deer caught in the headlights. She didn't know when it was ok to pick up her baby, whether she was feeding her right, how to change her little nappy. I was appalled and took her through the basics. They weren't even busy, for me used to an adult medical ward it was a bloody breeze. I'm not saying this to generalise about the support given, just pointing out that it's not always the training that falls short but it can be the willingness of the individual HCP to put the effort in to the training or the practice, particularly when it comes to those women who they assume will fail anyway.
This reminds me, a few weeks ago after taking a mum and her new baby from labour suite to postnatal ward another midwife said to me. 'She'll have a hard time of it, he's a big hungry one and her breasts are too big and very droopy.' Talk about setting women up to fail!!!

oh yes there is a huge gap in updating midwives after qualification, as i said previously the training recieved during the training is quite good but that is now, 20 years ago may not have been the same and old school midwives so to speak really should update themselves this doesnt just apply to breastfeeding but also all aspect of midwifery.

its deffinatly down to the indervidual health profestional as to how good at supporting they are. you can recieve the best training in the world but if u dont use the information and exprience in the right way then its not going to benifit women and babys.

 

[winegums]

Is BF a newborn as hard to do if you're still BFing a toddler?

believe its called tandem feeding? at least your already experienced and have lots of milk lol don't really know much about it though

anyway, as far as the op goes i do agree the support for ff'ers and propective ff'ers should equate to support for bf'ers. a lady in my town put herself in front of a train recently due to pressure on her from professionals to breastfeed when she didn't want to. she was made to feel like a failure... the only person who was really failed in this was the 9 week old baby she left behind. i do wonder what would happen if she'd been offered support to embrace her choice without guilt. nothing is worth that. NOTHING.

that's very sad however she should have got help regarding pnd or something similar rather than bf/ff

 

[SKATERBUN]

I am hoping to breast feed but i have bought formula incase it doesnt go to plan. I do think breast is best but i don't have a problem if people FF all my sisters have used formula i just decided to try this first x

Me too Im hoping to breast feed and do hope it all goes well so I can carry on as long as possible in the hope that baby will benefit and I will save myself some money!! If it doesnt go to plan and I'm in great pain then I will stop

 

[alio]

oh wow alio that's horrendous How terribly sad. There must have been PND and some other issues though surely?

it is sad, no diagnosed PND i'm afraid... she was understandably extremely agitated and low but ultimately it was made clear that she felt a failure on the feeding front... these extreme cases are few and far between but they do put things into perspective for me.... it really struck a chord with me. poor baby. do you know the lady had been trying to conceive for years and this was her first baby. sad....