formula making babies fat?

[trumpetbum]

Bearing in mind that this is not a breast v formula issue I wanted to comment on 'overfeeding' a breastfed baby.
There is still a lot of misinformation regarding breastfeeding and many parents who have been told that they are overfeeding their baby are being given poor information especially if this is based on weight/percentiles and how often babies nurses. Big babies fed normal formula or breastmilk are not usually overfed if they are feeding on demand when they are hungry, with breastfeeding some babies will suckle often but not be taking fatty milk and breastmilk is not just food and therefore it is extremely rare to overfeed a breastfed baby. I hesitate to use the word impossible or never as this tends to bite people on the arse, there is usually always the exception that proves the rule.
Some babies are just big and the fat reserves generally are used up when the babies become active. It is perfectly normal and healthy for a baby to be a bit of a butterball when they are immobile.
Overfeeding is mostly accompanied by other symptoms such as gastric problems, spitting up/vomiting, gassiness and/or pain but these issues in a breastfed baby are most often related to overfeeding of foremilk or something which can be solved by technique change or dietary adjustments. FF babies may also have these problems without being overfed which may be solved by changing formula etc. The main thing to remember is not to press a baby to feed more (unless the baby has problems underfeeding) or to feed until the baby is sick or irritable and not to get hung up on how much baby should be eating or start hungry baby milk without good reason. It is also helpful to take time to learn babies cues and not automatically respond with a feed when a baby is irritable or to bow to pressure from family and friends who insist that baby is hungry.

 

[trumpetbum]

I think people are continually forgetting 2 points in this thread though. First is that this study is talking about specific "high energy formula" which has up to 43% more protein and 12% more "energy" (calories?) than "normal" formula. I don't even know if that is hungry baby milk, it's more like a special formula for children who really need their calorific intake boosted, isn't it?

As for not over-feeding a BF baby, what about when they are comfort sucking? Or when babies of older than a year (just an example) are still wanting to feed through the night, again for the comfort of it, and because they like the taste? I know BM is easily broken down, but that's still calories which, arguably, they don't "need".

It's not quite that simple due to the complexity and adaptive nature of breastmilk and breastfeeding. The composition of breastmilk changes not only over the babies growth span but also throughout a single day with certain feeds being more calorie rich than others according to the babies needs and different suckles controlling whether there is a productive let down or minimal 'food' for a comfort suck. From a purely personal POV I was able to tell from my babies suck after a time whether she was feeding or comfort sucking.

Rather than this being about FF vs BF, it should be about "when my baby is weaning/weaned, what healthy foods can I give him/her, and how can I encourage exercise"! As those are two of the main factors contributing to obesity, from where I'm sitting

I absolutely agree. Forewarned is forearmed. I also think that it would be nice if awareness of both this research and existing research regarding high protein/specialist/follow on milks also meant that parents could feel more assured that they don't have to waste money on specially marketed expensive formulas unless their baby actually has a special need for them. Simple ordinary formula is fine for most babies.

 

[trumpetbum]

Can I ask a question that I mean in no way to be horrible. If a BF baby can't be overfed. Why are there some BF babies that are in the higher percentile etc? I know all babies are differant etc. I have seen children overweight that were FF and Children overwieght that were BF.
xx

Just a personal theory and not based on anything other than my own reflections on the subject with my LO but I had a real butterball baby, rolls of fat, high percentile etc.
When she started moving it fell off her and she is now extremely slim. She has a very high metabolism as do I and my younger brother. If we accept that breastmilk is responsive to the individual needs of a baby then it would make sense that she would need a wealth of calories, fat and energy reserves to meet her needs with a high metabolism as an infant, she was a constant feeder so the interplay between breastmilk production and her feeding makes sense to me.
My bfs first daughter was a huge feeder ( bf briefly then ff) and went from a tiny baby to a total butterball too, but also had no gastric problems to accompany the huge weight gain. She is now extremely tall for her age, in fact she is a good head and shoulders above my daughter who is a year younger and is 4 shoe sizes bigger. It would make sense to me that she would feed more than the average baby due to her predisposition to being tall whether she was bf or ff , if bf her mothers breastmilk would adapt to facilitate her calorie needs and would therefore initially be on the higher percentile regardless.
Just a theory though

 

[freckleonear]

I think people are continually forgetting 2 points in this thread though. First is that this study is talking about specific "high energy formula" which has up to 43% more protein and 12% more "energy" (calories?) than "normal" formula. I don't even know if that is hungry baby milk, it's more like a special formula for children who really need their calorific intake boosted, isn't it?

In the first study mentioned in the report, the normal formula was Farley’s Ostermilk and the nutrient-enriched formula was Farley’s PremCare (both supplied by Farley’s Health Products, a division of HJ Heinz Company Ltd).

I wasn't able to find any detailed information on the second study, probably because it was stopped early for ethical reasons due to strong evidence of the link between early over-nutrition and later obesity. The formulas used were supplied by Nutricia Ltd, which owns Cow & Gate and Aptamil. It is likely (but not confirmed) that the nutrient-enriched formula was Nutriprem 2.

These are prescription milks for low birth weight babies, not hungry baby milks. Hope that is reassuring.

 

[Caezzybe]

I think people are continually forgetting 2 points in this thread though. First is that this study is talking about specific "high energy formula" which has up to 43% more protein and 12% more "energy" (calories?) than "normal" formula. I don't even know if that is hungry baby milk, it's more like a special formula for children who really need their calorific intake boosted, isn't it?

In the first study mentioned in the report, the normal formula was Farley’s Ostermilk and the nutrient-enriched formula was Farley’s PremCare (both supplied by Farley’s Health Products, a division of HJ Heinz Company Ltd).

I wasn't able to find any detailed information on the second study, probably because it was stopped early for ethical reasons due to strong evidence of the link between early over-nutrition and later obesity. The formulas used were supplied by Nutricia Ltd, which owns Cow & Gate and Aptamil. It is likely (but not confirmed) that the nutrient-enriched formula was Nutriprem 2.

These are prescription milks for low birth weight babies, not hungry baby milks. Hope that is reassuring.

As far as I know, the hungry milks have the same calories as the non-hungry milks but contain something to make them a bit harder to digest?

 

[freckleonear]

As far as I know, the hungry milks have the same calories as the non-hungry milks but contain something to make them a bit harder to digest?

Yes that's right. Milk protein is made out of casein and whey. Normal formula has a casein to whey ratio of 40:60 (similar to breast milk) and hungry baby formula has a casein to whey ratio of 80:20 (similar to cow's milk). They still contain roughly the same amount of energy.

 

[Lu28]

I always tend to take anything from the Daily Mail with a pinch of salt

I had been under the impression for a good while though that bottle feeding as opposed to formula feeding carries a risk of overfeeding and possible obesity in later life because it is easier to 'tempt' a baby to keep feeding after they have naturally finished themselves e.g. after LO has stopped sucking, a parent can wiggle the bottle in their mouth to stimulate the sucking reflex so they take a little more, tapping the bottom of the bottle etc etc. It's something I know I did in the early days when I was bottle feeding both ebm and formula because everyone I knew told me to try to get LO to take a little more after they'd initially finished. This is pretty much impossible with bfing.

So what I had read was that LO is encouraged to takea little more than they really need at each feed. They dont necessarily take so much that they end up sicking it up but just encouraged to keep feeding after they're full - it's that part which I have read tends to stick with them into adulthood so that it's more likely they'll continue to eat past the time they are full. It also carries the risk of their tummy expanding more than it naturally would so they receive the full signals later than they should.

As so many have said though, it's just one small factor in the whole life of a child and I think healthy eating in later life, not spending hours in front of the tv or computer etc carry much more weight.

Sorry for the essay!

 

[Eve]

I`m not sure what type of formula they are talking about, but it doesnt sound like what most use...? Anyways, I FF my son and he was a very chubby baby... and I am BFing Kayleigh and she is not.
I cant base the weight issues on their feedings alone though as I am overweight, so is my Mom, Dad, Brother etc... we were all FF too, but Brother, Dad and I werent overweight until adulthood. Mom always had trouble with her weight though. My sons father is "thick" too and his side has had weight problems. Jacob has alway been "thick" too, but since starting a new medication he has put on more... trying hard to get it off though, not good for him!
Kayleighs Dad and his side are mostly thin, I mean THIN.

I think there is a lot more to it than what they are fed. How they are fed, how often, how much and the types of foods given in toddlerhood and childhood too. Bottle feeding in general will cause a baby to take in more I guess, so maybe that has something to do with it?

 

[Janidog]

I`m not sure what type of formula they are talking about, but it doesnt sound like what most use...? Anyways, I FF my son and he was a very chubby baby... and I am BFing Kayleigh and she is not.
I cant base the weight issues on their feedings alone though as I am overweight, so is my Mom, Dad, Brother etc... we were all FF too, but Brother, Dad and I werent overweight until adulthood. Mom always had trouble with her weight though. My sons father is "thick" too and his side has had weight problems. Jacob has alway been "thick" too, but since starting a new medication he has put on more... trying hard to get it off though, not good for him!
Kayleighs Dad and his side are mostly thin, I mean THIN.

I think there is a lot more to it than what they are fed. How they are fed, how often, how much and the types of foods given in toddlerhood and childhood too. Bottle feeding in general will cause a baby to take in more I guess, so maybe that has something to do with it?

My sister FF fed her first son and he is a skinny thing and she is BF her youngest who is a chubby baby, so too be honest articles like this is something you need to take with a pinch of salt

 

[Eve]

I`m not sure what type of formula they are talking about, but it doesnt sound like what most use...? Anyways, I FF my son and he was a very chubby baby... and I am BFing Kayleigh and she is not.
I cant base the weight issues on their feedings alone though as I am overweight, so is my Mom, Dad, Brother etc... we were all FF too, but Brother, Dad and I werent overweight until adulthood. Mom always had trouble with her weight though. My sons father is "thick" too and his side has had weight problems. Jacob has alway been "thick" too, but since starting a new medication he has put on more... trying hard to get it off though, not good for him!
Kayleighs Dad and his side are mostly thin, I mean THIN.

I think there is a lot more to it than what they are fed. How they are fed, how often, how much and the types of foods given in toddlerhood and childhood too. Bottle feeding in general will cause a baby to take in more I guess, so maybe that has something to do with it?

My sister FF fed her first son and he is a skinny thing and she is BF her youngest who is a chubby baby, so too be honest articles like this is something you need to take with a pinch of salt

Did you read the rest of what I said? I went on to expliain how genetics may have something to do with it etc... and I dont think its just formula obviously making people/children overweight... Based on visuals alone, you could assume it was formula in my case, but there is way more to it.

 

[aliss]

There's always a correlation of risks, you are also more likely to be overweight if you have a lower income, lower education, etc. but that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of overweight rich people, plenty of slim poor people, slim people without high school, etc. It's an overall statistic. I hope people don't somehow take this formula=higher risk as some sort of insult to being an FF mom (cause I am an FF mom and I don't), but overall statistics just show general statistically significant trends. Statistically significant and causation are completely different things!!!!

 

[Janidog]

There's always a correlation of risks, you are also more likely to be overweight if you have a lower income, lower education, etc. but that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of overweight rich people, plenty of slim poor people, slim people without high school, etc. It's an overall statistic. I hope people don't somehow take this formula=higher risk as some sort of insult to being an FF mom (cause I am an FF mom and I don't), but overall statistics just show general statistically significant trends. Statistically significant and causation are completely different things!!!!

After reading lots of stats and research I think you're spot on and no i wouldn't assume you are insulting us FF mums

 

[mum2b2009]

When my son had his 9 month review the hv said that i need to drop the night time feed because loads of links between fomula and childhood obeasty.
I have not droped the night time feed, just reduced the amouth that he is happy with. I dont think much of it tbh x

 

[SKATERBUN]

I think they meant the 'hungrier baby milk' Its suppose to stop them getting hungry too quick as it makes them feel fuller.

I didn't know about this report in the Daily Mail, but I had a hunch that LO may put on more weight if we switched to this 'enriched' milk too soon so keen to just stick to the standard 'breastmilk substitute' one for now. I also think that weaning LO too soon will also make her put on too much weight. So for now we'll just increase the volume of her regular feed as time goes on.

 

[cherryglitter]

deleted.

 

[cherryglitter]

I think some formula using parents get obsessed with th enumber of Ozs their baby is or should be drinking and that can cause them to overfeed

I agree, but then I think that's people taking guidelines too far, when they are just that, guidelines!

I just go with what Jake wants, if he's draining a bottle i'll add an ounce, if he's not, then i'll drop an ounce.

Kind of common sense I think. It would help if there were a bit more education out there about formula feeding too though.

 

[Eve]

I think some formula using parents get obsessed with th enumber of Ozs their baby is or should be drinking and that can cause them to overfeed

I agree, but then I think that's people taking guidelines too far, when they are just that, guidelines!

I just go with what Jake wants, if he's draining a bottle i'll add an ounce, if he's not, then i'll drop an ounce.

Kind of common sense I think. It would help if there were a bit more education out there about formula feeding too though.

I had a friend so worried her daughter wanted more than the recommeded amount on her formula and I explained that she need not worry, if her baby is hungry, she's hungry. She was so scared to give her more. Said maybe she would start cereal (she was only around 2 months old at the time) and I said more formula would be better than starting cereal early, and explained growth spurts etc... she felt a lot better after that Another friend fed her LO every time he cried, he is now very chubby, but her doctor says it's fine, not to worry until he starts crawling and walking, if it doesn't come off by 18th months she may need to cut back some... it can be so confusing with formula and a lot of doctors say different things! I do think a little more education and information on formula would be a good thing, since a lot of moms do seem to worry about how many oz their LO should have.

 

[Sarah10]

Every baby is different, Jayden doesn't stick to the guidelines at all, for his age they reccomend 5x 5oz feeds in 24hours, Jayden had 4oz at 9am, 4oz at 12noon, then usually he has 6oz bottles from then onwards, i usually make them up as 6oz, most times he drains it and a couple of times just 4-5oz

 

[aliss]

Yes it's a shame people are so worried about oz's (unless of course, baby is losing weight or not thriving). Hell, mine takes 1oz an hour and is nearly 19-20lbs at 4 months! LOL!

You cannot track the intake of a BF baby except for minutes, and they do just fine, so there's no need to track or worry about FF babies too with that one exception

 

[trumpetbum]

My mum is funny, she's a retired nursery nurse and is always saying ' The average baby baby needs X amount of milk a day per oz of body weight' (or something like that, I switch off much as I love her ) She also says that there's no such thing as an average baby, I think this is much more apt