I know it's not new but anyone else really hacked off about the child benefit cuts?

[Foogirl]

You know don't you that this is what the Tories want? They want to demonise the poor by creating an artificial divide between rich and poor to justify their ideological spending cuts. Don't let them. It's not normal parents like is that caused this; we are not to blame. Be kind to each other.

Divide and rule, just what they want, Daily Mail would be rubbing their hands gleefully looking at this.

Only if we have enough "gays and immigrants" involved

I agree governments want us to fight amongst ourselves, just so it takes the heat off them.

In response to your other post, you are totally correct. I don't think anyone is any better than anyone else really, we all just are living our lives as we see fit. I won't apologise for taking what is offered when I feel like it, nor claim to be doing something outstanding when I choose not to do that, it's just how I organise my life. Folks can like it or lump it.

Also totally right about how what's not much to some makes a huge difference to others. Even though I earn a high wage, £80 is a lot of money to me. It doesn't mean the difference between eat and heat, but I'd still think twice about spending it on anything.

Although, maybe that's just the Scot in me

 

[babycrazy1706]

 

[Natsku]

I really think it ought to go back to being a universal benefit. Changing it to means tested takes away the spirit of it - that every child is important and the Government benefits all.

Otherwise means testing really ought to take into account COL - higher thresholds in higher cost areas would be sensible but it would probably just be cheaper to give it to everyone than do reasonable means testing.

 

[Foogirl]

Out of interest, am I right in thinking child benefit helps with pension contributions, so if a woman is a SAHM and her husband now earns £44k+ so she's not entitled, does that mean she won't "earn" enough for the state pension? There was something on here about it recently but not in light of the changes to the system. Just curious.

I think they have fixed the system so that you have the time you spend as a SAHM paid up in your NI contributions.

 

[smileyfaces]

OT: £1000 a month for a car before tax insurance ect?! What is it? A Bentley?! I work in the trade, you either have a very nice car or a very poor finance deal!

You wouldn't get a Bentley for £1000 a month when paying back over 3 years. But it was a lovely car thank you, and it was a very good APR, as it was a bank loan and not a finance deal.

Usually, a good debate is me in my element. However, it's no longer a debate when people start getting personal and judgmental. There was absolutely no need for words like 'ludicrous' to be used. I don't judge people, nor jump on people, for choosing to claim benefits, or choosing to not flush their toilet. It's a person's choice. I may give them my reasons for not doing it. But I wouldn't go as far as to ridicule them. And I don't expect others to.

ETA: I'm aware that this and my previous post are perhaps a bit of an over reaction, I'm blaming all the extra hormones I'm being pumped with

Yeah it was me who said it is ludicrous and I still think it is. I haven't ridiculed you or anyone else on this thread Just because I have an opinion doesn't mean that I am trying to ridicule you so please don't insult me. It is a debate for gods sake.

From someone who struggles month in month out with a stupidly low household income I do find it ludicrous that anyone could spend such an obscene amount of money on a car. The same amount as you are paying monthly towards a mortgage. I just don't understand it. It really is just foreign to me that a car could be worth such a massive financial commitment. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it, just as you are entitled to yours. (And that is regardless of the fact that the loan was taken when you are your partner were in a better financial position, I would still think it is a huge amount for a car).

----

Ayway, back to the original point, CB is indeed a universal benefit and of course, if you are entitled to it then you have every right to claim it. The problem I have, as I have emphasised previously in the thread, is the attitude that CB is measly and worthless and can be spent on MORE luxuries for those who already have ample income to lead great lives. It is really insulting to those of us who struggle to make ends meet and rely on CB to buy our children milk, nappies and clothes when times are tough.

And, as a sidenote, I have only skimmed through the most recent resposnses in the last few pages so I may have got the wrong end of the stick here, but education and household income certainly do not correlate. I did well in school, finished college, went to university and left with a 2.1 degree. I worked part time from the week after leaving high school, all through my further and higher education up until leaving uni when I got a full time job. I have never earned more than £7 an hour or £15k a year. I worked incredibly hard to make sure that my future would be secured with a good paying job but alas, life isn't that easy. That is what makes me incredibly grateful for help from the gov such as CB.

 

[Foogirl]

And, as a sidenote, I have only skimmed through the most recent resposnses in the last few pages so I may have got the wrong end of the stick here, but education and household income certainly do not correlate. I did well in school, finished college, went to university and left with a 2.1 degree. I worked part time from the week after leaving high school, all through my further and higher education up until leaving uni when I got a full time job. I have never earned more than £7 an hour or £15k a year. I worked incredibly hard to make sure that my future would be secured with a good paying job but alas, life isn't that easy. That is what makes me incredibly grateful for help from the gov such as CB.

Yeah kind of the wrong end of the stick. I was making the point that that was how I got my well paid job - and that others without the same education can equally attain the same salary. You are absolutely correct that the reverse is also possible. Life often gets in the way of our plans. But maybe you can answer the big question. Why hasn't it been possible for you to maximise the potential a degree might have given you? What is it that has stopped you climbing the salary ladder? It seems to be the elusive question the Government is trying hard to get an answer to.

 

[smileyfaces]

And, as a sidenote, I have only skimmed through the most recent resposnses in the last few pages so I may have got the wrong end of the stick here, but education and household income certainly do not correlate. I did well in school, finished college, went to university and left with a 2.1 degree. I worked part time from the week after leaving high school, all through my further and higher education up until leaving uni when I got a full time job. I have never earned more than £7 an hour or £15k a year. I worked incredibly hard to make sure that my future would be secured with a good paying job but alas, life isn't that easy. That is what makes me incredibly grateful for help from the gov such as CB.

Yeah kind of the wrong end of the stick. I was making the point that that was how I got my well paid job - and that others without the same education can equally attain the same salary. You are absolutely correct that the reverse is also possible. Life often gets in the way of our plans. But maybe you can answer the big question. Why hasn't it been possible for you to maximise the potential a degree might have given you? What is it that has stopped you climbing the salary ladder? It seems to be the elusive question the Government is trying hard to get an answer to.

If I knew the answer to that then I would be earning £50k a year Seriously, the degree I did was an EXTREMELY popular choice, 250 students in my year studying for the same degree. Take this as a trend across other universities across the UK and there are thousands and thousands of 21 years olds all trying to attain the few jobs available in that particular field to graduates. The most sensible thing for me to do when I left university was to get a full time job (which I did within a month of leaving uni) so that I could be earning a wage whilst looking for and applpying for new jobs in my chosen field. There simply were just not enough opportunities available and far too many applicants for the few jobs that were cropping up.

Extremely poor decision on my behalf to take the degree I did and if I could turn back time and study something else and much more relevant t the real world then I certainly would. But two kids later it is just ot possible for me to return to university. I simply could not afford it.

 

[Foogirl]

If I knew the answer to that then I would be earning £50k a year Seriously, the degree I did was an EXTREMELY popular choice, 250 students in my year studying for the same degree. Take this as a trend across other universities across the UK and there are thousands and thousands of 21 years olds all trying to attain the few jobs available in that particular field to graduates. The most sensible thing for me to do when I left university was to get a full time job (which I did within a month of leaving uni) so that I could be earning a wage whilst looking for and applpying for new jobs in my chosen field. There simply were just not enough opportunities available and far too many applicants for the few jobs that were cropping up.

Extremely poor decision on my behalf to take the degree I did and if I could turn back time and study something else and much more relevant t the real world then I certainly would. But two kids later it is just ot possible for me to return to university. I simply could not afford it.

Right, ok, I get why the degree didn't work out. Probably best not get me started on why the Universities, the Government and Industry don't get together and work out how many of what we need and tailor further education to get there........

But you're an educated person, and a hard worker, presumably you are a good learner and good at your job, how come it hasn't been possible to progress within your chosen field and reach a higher salary that way? Many do so without a degree?

(I'm steeling myself for the worrisome response that it's to do with balancing a family and a job.......)

 

[smileyfaces]

Because the job Im currently in has been interrupted by TWO lots of maternity leave. In total I will have had 18 months away from my role and I have only worked at the company for just short of three years Not sure what that has to do with it though. The point I was making is that the degree I took was the wrong one therefore not all educated people have opportunity to excell and earn a good wage. If I could put my degree to good use then believe me I would...I'd love to earn a good wage. And if I did I wouldn't spend £1k a month on a car But of course that is just me.

 

[bookreader]

Again, I'm not disputing that people should be legally entitled to child benefit whatever their income. Just that society is made up of individuals and how individuals act ultimately affects society as a whole. Is it really such a hardship for people with lots of disposable income, plenty in their savings account and a nice lifestyle to consider whether it would be better spent elsewhere when they know they can claim later if they need it?

I get that we all pay taxes - before changing careers in preparation for pregnancy I was on the high taxation rate myself. But just as a few examples -

1) My little brother was given a life saving operation and treatment for his problems as a child which my parents could never have afforded to pay for privately

2) When my then-fiancé was terminally ill and I was a struggling student relying on a pittance to keep a roof over our heads, he received palliative care and treatment to ease his suffering and I was given support and counselling.

3) My Grandmother was given a heart bypass which kept her with us for another 20 years.

4) The person who attacked my best friend was found and jailed by the police

5) I gave birth in an NHS hospital and although it wasn't the best experience due to the funding cuts, they got my son out alive despite him not breathing initially.

All of these things were more than enough "thank you" for paying tax and NI and that's barely scratching the surface.

I've already said I have no issue with what Foogirl is doing with her benefit.

I have really enjoyed reading your posts on this thread and feel I don't have anything more to add because of that.

 

[kates84]

Thank you bookreader, that's very kind.

Since there seems to be less upset here now, I'd like to say that I have enjoyed most of the posts in here - it is interesting to hear the perspective of people who have a different outlook to me and I feel I have a better understanding of where people are coming from
(I only took issue with one post in this thread but didn't want to single that person out so maybe I made it sound like I found everyone who took different choices to myself abhorrent - if so I apologise profusely)

It seems we are all in agreement more than we disagree, that things are hard for many people at the moment and the cut of services is sad to all of us. The only difference is that some of us feel that taking what we don't "need" makes a bad situation worse and some feel that if they didn't claim, it would be peed up the wall long before it benefited anyone so they may as well take it for their own child.

Thank you for an interesting discussion everyone.

PS: I'd like to just state, for the record, that I am far from a martyr. You'd better believe that faced with the breaking wheel (or even my husbands P45) I'd be filling those claim forms in faster than you could say "I renounce the devil"

 

[tinytabby]

It's a shame that universities seem to sell the idea that degrees will get people into jobs. In my day (I graduated in 2001) it was much less specific and you found your own path.

 

[smileyfaces]

It's a shame that universities seem to sell the idea that degrees will get people into jobs. In my day (I graduated in 2001) it was much less specific and you found your own path.

I don't think it is the universities to be honest. We had it drummed into us in high school and college that if we wanted a good job then we would need a degree. Whilst this is true for many professions it is certainly not always the case and making your own way in life can be done with no qualifications whatsoever.

College were particularly pushy about going to university and I am sure that my poor choice of degree course was down to being pressuepred by the college to make a decision for application purposes.

Sad really.

 

[Pearls18]

It's a shame that universities seem to sell the idea that degrees will get people into jobs. In my day (I graduated in 2001) it was much less specific and you found your own path.

I don't think it is the universities to be honest. We had it drummed into us in high school and college that if we wanted a good job then we would need a degree. Whilst this is true for many professions it is certainly not always the case and making your own way in life can be done with no qualifications whatsoever.

College were particularly pushy about going to university and I am sure that my poor choice of degree course was down to being pressuepred by the college to make a decision for application purposes.

Sad really.

I know what you mean, but how many options are there when you don't have a degree? Schools have it drummed into them so much to get kids into uni, that there either aren't many alternatives or they're just not widely discussed. I personally blame Labour for insisting that so many people go to uni in the first place with little to no direction. I also blame universities for not preparing students for the work place, a lot of students seem to think (probably due to poor "advertising" and expectations) that a degree equates a job, but there are SO many graduates now you have to be gaining work experience during your degree to stand out, I worked summers and spend hundreds of hours volunteering in my field throughout uni, and despite having a child at 22 I have never had a problem getting a job in my field with a history degree which there are a lot of graduates of. More emphasis needs to be put on the extra curricular things students should be doing, we need to step away from uni is the time to be partying and getting drunk, but I am a sour puss lol.

 

[smileyfaces]

Totally agree with you Marinewag!

 

[tinytabby]

I also agree - my degree was history too. There are a million career paths from it unlike some of the very specialist degrees that people seem to find it hard to get jobs with.

 

[Pearls18]

I also agree - my degree was history too. There are a million career paths from it unlike some of the very specialist degrees that people seem to find it hard to get jobs with.

Yeah although I felt like my options were teacher or teacher lol, I went into the heritage sector though. Although ironically coming back to this thread I will never surpass the £44k income by myself I doubt even though i need to be educated to Masters level unless I end up in one of the high managerial positions which isn't really my aim if I'm honest, but heck I'd rather be in a job I love and for me unfortunately what I love doing isn't going to make the big bucks, and nor will DH's chosen career, but we're happy and you can't put a price on that, we don't need the child benefit for the basics but we do appreciate it for taking a small bite out of the extortionate childcare fees- what it's meant for? I don't know, would we miss it - we sure would!

 

[Fergie]

I've sat quite shocked at some of these replies. TBH i have no sympathy for people who are on £50 grand + a year and are complaining that they are skint.
However everyone should be entitled to child benefit just as everyone should be entitled to use the NHS etc.

 

[Foogirl]

I've sat quite shocked at some of these replies. TBH i have no sympathy for people who are on £50 grand + a year and are complaining that they are skint.

If you've read the thread you would understand why this is a very uncharitable attitude.

As I said, 50k is two people earning the average wage. It's a teacher and a mechanic. Knock 25% off for tax and NI. If you live in many of the large cities, that salary doesn't go very far. The average wage earners, living in the average house will find a huge chunk of their money goes on mortgage. With energy and food prices rising, nursery costs. Let's do some sums.

50k salary is roughly 37,500 take home a year. £3125 a month.

Average house at average mortgage is £1000 a month.
Average fuel costs for average house £150 a month
Average Nursery for 2 children £1400 a month
Average Food bill for family £400 a month

That leaves £175 month left over. For running a car or travelling expenses, or for clothes or savings or holidays. Does that sound like a lot, really?

And bear in mind once you reach that level any means tested benefits are minimal.

 

[Fergie]

I've sat quite shocked at some of these replies. TBH i have no sympathy for people who are on £50 grand + a year and are complaining that they are skint.

If you've read the thread you would understand why this is a very uncharitable attitude.

As I said, 50k is two people earning the average wage. It's a teacher and a mechanic. Knock 25% off for tax and NI. If you live in many of the large cities, that salary doesn't go very far. The average wage earners, living in the average house will find a huge chunk of their money goes on mortgage. With energy and food prices rising, nursery costs. Let's do some sums.

50k salary is roughly 37,500 take home a year. £3125 a month.

Average house at average mortgage is £1000 a month.
Average fuel costs for average house £150 a month
Average Nursery for 2 children £1400 a month
Average Food bill for family £400 a month

That leaves £175 month left over. For running a car or travelling expenses, or for clothes or savings or holidays. Does that sound like a lot, really?

And bear in mind once you reach that level any means tested benefits are minimal.

Please remove yourself from your highhorse. My opinion counts just as much as yours does.