Immunize or not?

[feeble]

It has been absolutely disproved that there is any link between autism and the MMR vaccine.

nonsense, one study has been discredited, there has not yet been long term, widespread enough studies to completely disprove ANYTHING

 

[Ozzieshunni]

There is a big difference between a medical reason not to vaccinate and not vaccinating because of paranoia surrounding "what ifs." What if the world ended tomorrow? What if I get hit by a car?

Brandi, I am in no way trying to discredit your experience. I know you have valid medical reasons for not vaccinating

 

[BrandiCanucks]

I think it's misleading to say that the MMR triggers autism symptoms. Autism symptoms come about the same time that the MMR is given. That's why they were initially associated. It was disproved that MMR caused autism.

I think you misunderstood what I said. I said MMR can trigger underlying dormant conditions where some of the developmental symptoms are autism-like.

There's actually evidence now that autism may present itself physically long before the behaviours start.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130140127.htm

Are you familiar with the Hannah Poling case? Or other cases where vaccines were proven or even may have triggered conditions with autism-like symptoms? My daughter has many autism-like symptoms that come with her developmental delays. Her developmental delays are a direct result of whatever is going on in her brain, whatever that neurometabolic condition is. That is why we sought an autism diagnosis. We were convinced she had autism. She still presents with autism-like symptoms, and we've been told by MANY therapists and teachers that if they were unaware of her medical conditions, they would think she has autism. The only reason she doesn't is because she's "too social", according to her pediatrician. She DOES interact with adults, and will engage you in conversation if she wants something, but she also has a sensory overload and cannot look at you while you're talking to her, or she won't hear you. Alternatively, if you want her to look at you, she can't hear you. She is unable to use both senses at the same time due to the overload in her brain.

One thing I can't stand though is people who pretty much call parents of children who HAVE regressed after vaccines liars. Even if you don't use the word directly, who are they to decide what has or hasn't happened to their child post vaccine? My daughter regressed after EVERY vaccine she had. Every developmental milestone that took her months to develop, she lost at least one with each vaccine. We watched her try and take her first steps at just 9 months old. Vaccine, and regressed to crawling. She didn't walk again until she was 16 months old. This is why we did the test back in September, to see what the reaction would be.

I know my child better than anyone else in this world, except her. I hate to say it was vaccines, because as I mentioned above, they definitely have helped to eradicate diseases, but vaccines are NOT as safe as they're made out to be, and it's for a lot more children than just one. Pro-vaxxers always say the non-vaxxers need to take their blinders off, and they're irresponsible for not vaccinating, and they must not love their kids and blah blah blah, when in all actuality, many pro-vaxxers need to. Pro-vaxxers need to realize that what Big Pharma says about vaccines being perfectly safe is NOT true, because children DO regress. Children DO have triggered reactions, and lifelong effects as a result. I used to mourn for the child I lost in Zoe, but I don't anymore. I can't get that child back. I no long think "What if I didn't" and focus on "What can I do". Parents who tell non-vaxxers that they are irresponsible, don't care about their kids, are going to give other kids diseases are VERY VERY ignorant in that opinion, and those who go even further to call the parents of vaccine-injured kids liars are even worse. Until you've met my daughter, don't tell me I'm lying or misleading about her regressions and her medical issues.

I would give ANYTHING in this world for my daughter to be healthy and normally developing. I would give ANYTHING in the world for my daughter to have autism. I'd rather deal with autism and the behaviours that come with it than live scared, wondering if she's going to wake up tomorrow.

 

[MizzDeeDee]

Thank you for sharing your son's story, Rebecca. As posted above, there's a picture of Zoe's DTap reaction. Most of Zoe's seizures are complex partial or absence, but she has had the occasional generalized seizure. The seizures are likely a progression of her condition, but again, until we know what the condition is, we can't prove anything. We can't prove that the vaccines triggered her condition until we know what it is, but it's definitely on the list of possibilities. I am very wary of using the term "caused" when it comes to her condition and vaccines; I prefer triggered. We know she had it prior to the vaccines, but that it was dormant until something triggered it. This has also been the case with a few families where MMR triggered autism-like symptoms in children, and it was later discovered that they had underlying dormant conditions that we activated by a trigger, the vaccine. Hannah Poling is probably the most famous case. Her family won a lawsuit when they were able to prove that she was vaccine-injured and the vaccine triggered her dormant condition.

This is pretty much my worry with vaccines, that they trigger things that may never have been triggered otherwise, similar to how they have proven cannabis may trigger schizophrenia

Here is the thing: Do I think that vaccines can possibly trigger a health issue??? Yes(not autism, that's ridiculous). I know this because I know that severe viral and bacterial infections typically trigger autoimmune diseases in people. It happened to me and most people I have spoke to about it.

Would I rather my child have a health issue then possibly pass away from not getting a vaccine- yes.

Not to say that I don't get Brandi Canuck's reasoning- that makes total sense given what happened. I don't however get parents who don't.. just in case. The amount of women that are choosing to not vaccinate their child "just because" or out of fear are making a huge dent in the herd immunity. It's not fair to society as a whole and you're also hurting kids like Brandi's who have a real reason for not getting vaccines. She has to rely on herd immunity for her children.

 

[XJessicaX]

Bugger science. There is always magic crystals, homeopathy and the power of prayer to protect your children.

 

[MizzDeeDee]

It has been absolutely disproved that there is any link between autism and the MMR vaccine.

nonsense, one study has been discredited, there has not yet been long term, widespread enough studies to completely disprove ANYTHING

Not only has it been discredited..... the guy that did the study lost his license because of it.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Bugger science. There is always magic crystals, homeopathy and the power of prayer to protect your children.

Does this mean I can do my naked voodoo dance in the back garden in the full moonlight?

 

[BrandiCanucks]

Ozzies...I know you are not, and I apologize if my response may come across as rude. It is really NOT intended to be rude AT ALL. I suppose PMS mixed with condemning frustrations regarding this topic has my blood boiling a little. I all too commonly hear people tell non-vaxxers exactly what is stated in the post above and it irks me the wrong way. I hate when people tell me and other parents their children are "faking" or that parents are lying. I can guarantee that these parents who aren't vaccinating because of a reaction would MUCH prefer to not have to deal with the daily battle and would have LOVED to vaccinate and not had a reaction. I do agree though that those who don't vaccinate because of the "what if" or the "I don't want to risk" should do some more research. While my daughter's case is rare, it's exactly that...RARE, meaning unlikely to happen again, even to another child.

I would love nothing more than for her doctors to tell me that her condition was a fluke accident and that my other two children will not be affected if vaccinated, I would love to be told her condition was not triggered by a vaccine, and if it is, we will do only selective, spread apart and no combo vaccines, but until then, my kids are vaccine-free.

 

[feeble]

Here is the thing: Do I think that vaccines can possibly trigger a health issue??? Yes(not autism, that's ridiculous).

How can you possibly know that? How can you admit one but suggest the other is 'ridiculous' The human brain is a complex thing, as i have said, just because ONE study suggesting autism has been discredited, there is no full independent study that completely quashes the fears and reality for many parents who have watched children regress into autism after having vaccination. I

know this because I know that severe viral and bacterial infections typically trigger autoimmune diseases in people. It happened to me and most people I have spoke to about it.

Would I rather my child have a health issue then possibly pass away from not getting a vaccine- yes.

I would rather neither of course, it is a question of weighing up pros and cons and i am yet to see anything that suggests in a safe, clean first world country there is ANY reason to vaccinate so young, so much or without waiting to look at the chemistry of a child individually before making decision.


Not to say that I don't get Brandi Canuck's reasoning- that makes total sense given what happened. I don't however get parents who don't.. just in case. The amount of women that are choosing to not vaccinate their child "just because" or out of fear are making a huge dent in the herd immunity. It's not fair to society as a whole and you're also hurting kids like Brandi's who have a real reason for not getting vaccines. She has to rely on herd immunity for her children.

My child is NOT part of a 'herd' they are sacred little being and i am sorry i do not wish to sacrafice them for the sake of everyone else but that is exactly how i feel about it.

I DO and HAVE vaccinated my child, but not to schedule and i will make sure i am aware of his developmental problems BEFORE administering SINGULAR vaccinations for deadly diseases because that is what I feel is right to do for MY child. Herd immunity is such an awful term, so some beautiful young children are suppose to be damaged in order to protect 'the herd' nonsense, we should never, ever ever view humans like that

And to add, autism is not like downs syndrome where something extra is there or something else is missing, its a bunch of common characteristics used to explain behavioural and developmental issues. So to suggest that its obvious that vaccines can cause autoimmunity disorders but that its 'ridiculous' that it causes autism is basically showing you have no understanding of what those two things mean.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I hear ya. Alex has a heart condition. I know that any of these illnesses could compromise his heart and make it work harder than it already is. It's so hard when our babies have conditions that are beyond our control

 

[MizzDeeDee]

Ozzies...I know you are not, and I apologize if my response may come across as rude. It is really NOT intended to be rude AT ALL. I suppose PMS mixed with condemning frustrations regarding this topic has my blood boiling a little. I all too commonly hear people tell non-vaxxers exactly what is stated in the post above and it irks me the wrong way. I hate when people tell me and other parents their children are "faking" or that parents are lying. I can guarantee that these parents who aren't vaccinating because of a reaction would MUCH prefer to not have to deal with the daily battle and would have LOVED to vaccinate and not had a reaction. I do agree though that those who don't vaccinate because of the "what if" or the "I don't want to risk" should do some more research. While my daughter's case is rare, it's exactly that...RARE, meaning unlikely to happen again, even to another child.

I would love nothing more than for her doctors to tell me that her condition was a fluke accident and that my other two children will not be affected if vaccinated, I would love to be told her condition was not triggered by a vaccine, and if it is, we will do only selective, spread apart and no combo vaccines, but until then, my kids are vaccine-free.

I know she had the issue with the MMR obviously, but did she have ANY reaction to her other vaccines?

 

[emyandpotato]

I vaccinated, never occurred to me not to. There are so many dos and don'ts confusing me at the moment that with this I just went with medical advice and did it.

 

[feeble]

It has been absolutely disproved that there is any link between autism and the MMR vaccine.

nonsense, one study has been discredited, there has not yet been long term, widespread enough studies to completely disprove ANYTHING

Not only has it been discredited..... the guy that did the study lost his license because of it.

thats a very different thing to it being proven that autism is not caused by vaccines, no one is fighting andrew wakefields corner but as usual, it is all the 'pro vaxers' have to cling on to!

 

[XJessicaX]

Bugger science. There is always magic crystals, homeopathy and the power of prayer to protect your children.

Does this mean I can do my naked voodoo dance in the back garden in the full moonlight?

I believe it does It is a well known measles repellent.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Bugger science. There is always magic crystals, homeopathy and the power of prayer to protect your children.

Does this mean I can do my naked voodoo dance in the back garden in the full moonlight?

I believe it does It is a well known measles repellent.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

Ozzies...I know you are not, and I apologize if my response may come across as rude. It is really NOT intended to be rude AT ALL. I suppose PMS mixed with condemning frustrations regarding this topic has my blood boiling a little. I all too commonly hear people tell non-vaxxers exactly what is stated in the post above and it irks me the wrong way. I hate when people tell me and other parents their children are "faking" or that parents are lying. I can guarantee that these parents who aren't vaccinating because of a reaction would MUCH prefer to not have to deal with the daily battle and would have LOVED to vaccinate and not had a reaction. I do agree though that those who don't vaccinate because of the "what if" or the "I don't want to risk" should do some more research. While my daughter's case is rare, it's exactly that...RARE, meaning unlikely to happen again, even to another child.

I would love nothing more than for her doctors to tell me that her condition was a fluke accident and that my other two children will not be affected if vaccinated, I would love to be told her condition was not triggered by a vaccine, and if it is, we will do only selective, spread apart and no combo vaccines, but until then, my kids are vaccine-free.

I know she had the issue with the MMR obviously, but did she have ANY reaction to her other vaccines?

On page 7 in a picture of a DTap reaction on her arm from September. If we find out what her condition is and can prove it was triggered by vaccines, then DTap would have been the first trigger, the very first vaccine. According to growth charts, at birth, her head was in the 25th percentile (some sites say 12th, either way, she was within normal limits). She had her first vaccine the same week her head circumference slowed its growth. It was the 3rd percentile at two months, and below the first at 5 months old.

 

[MizzDeeDee]

It has been absolutely disproved that there is any link between autism and the MMR vaccine.

nonsense, one study has been discredited, there has not yet been long term, widespread enough studies to completely disprove ANYTHING

Not only has it been discredited..... the guy that did the study lost his license because of it.

thats a very different thing to it being proven that autism is not caused by vaccines, no one is fighting andrew wakefields corner but as usual, it is all the 'pro vaxers' have to cling on to!

Okay. First, your tone isn't exactly nice. Not real sure why you're talking to me like that.

Second, There is not a single piece of evidence that shows Autism is caused by vaccines. I will concede that illnesses- like viruses(which is what a vaccine is)- can trigger illnesses in people. It however is pretty clear that Health officials have no idea what causes Autism. So for as much as you say we are clinging on to that discredited study, you're kinda clinging to a theory that has no scientific credence at all. Health Professionals have clearly stated that vaccines DON'T cause Autism. And it doesn't. At best it might trigger it and that is a stretch according to medical science at this point.

And let's be honest, even if it did.. I would rather have an Autistic child then a dead one. If my child is seemingly healthy with no poor response to vaccines then I don't see any reason NOT to vaccinate her. I am protecting her and children like Brandi's and I assume yours that don't have the luxury of that protection.

 

[MizzDeeDee]

Ozzies...I know you are not, and I apologize if my response may come across as rude. It is really NOT intended to be rude AT ALL. I suppose PMS mixed with condemning frustrations regarding this topic has my blood boiling a little. I all too commonly hear people tell non-vaxxers exactly what is stated in the post above and it irks me the wrong way. I hate when people tell me and other parents their children are "faking" or that parents are lying. I can guarantee that these parents who aren't vaccinating because of a reaction would MUCH prefer to not have to deal with the daily battle and would have LOVED to vaccinate and not had a reaction. I do agree though that those who don't vaccinate because of the "what if" or the "I don't want to risk" should do some more research. While my daughter's case is rare, it's exactly that...RARE, meaning unlikely to happen again, even to another child.

I would love nothing more than for her doctors to tell me that her condition was a fluke accident and that my other two children will not be affected if vaccinated, I would love to be told her condition was not triggered by a vaccine, and if it is, we will do only selective, spread apart and no combo vaccines, but until then, my kids are vaccine-free.

I know she had the issue with the MMR obviously, but did she have ANY reaction to her other vaccines?

On page 7 in a picture of a DTap reaction on her arm from September. If we find out what her condition is and can prove it was triggered by vaccines, then DTap would have been the first trigger, the very first vaccine. According to growth charts, at birth, her head was in the 25th percentile (some sites say 12th, either way, she was within normal limits). She had her first vaccine the same week her head circumference slowed its growth. It was the 3rd percentile at two months, and below the first at 5 months old.

I wonder if it IS immunological in basis.


I follow your journal as you well know, but I didn't remember if it was just the MMR or if she had a problem with other vaccines too. I know the MMR is the harshest one.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

We're delaying until 15 months based on my research, but Alex will still get it. I'll run this by his cardiologist in Feb as well, but the HV and the GP were fine with it.

 

[feeble]

I am clinging to nothing, only being cautious with something i do not, and believe nobody, fully understands.

i have seen children whose parents SWEAR their regressions started within 24 hours of having vaccinations, a shocking number of them.

I wouldnt want to say one way or the other wether something is true or not true, but i also certainly wouldnt want to take a risk until i know what that risk is and what the pros of taking that risk are.