Jon Venables - Identity Exposed - UPDATE PAGE 32 (In the papers again today)

[suzib76]

all of this was dealt with at the time, which was way way back in 1993 and not the issue right now, which is that of the boys

So you don't think that past issues should help mold an organisation on how they conduct affairs in the future?

These boys aren't the first children to kill other children. Look at Mary Bell. She was ten years old when she killed two children. Sound familiar? Maybe if there had been an investigation into why this girl killed two children as a child, and findings were published to help train future social workers and teach society as a whole then the Bulger murder might never have happened.

No matter how old the crime, organsations as important as the police and social care should learn from.

yes of course i do, thats not at all what i said. this didnt just happen and nobody learnt anything from it

 

[suzib76]

exactly what i already said in pp (below), and it wasnt intended to be offensive, if thats what you take from it, thats your choice, but it wasnt ment to be

Can I just clarify that you think, because I said that the murder can be explained, in part, by the boys being let down by society that means I think the murder was ok?

no you cant clarify that at all, because that is not what was said

 

[LoraLoo]

But where would that end? You cant punish a 'system' only individuals. I do see your points, but at the end of the day, other children have truly awful upbringings, it doesnt mean that they kidnap, torture and kill baby's. I think the fact that JV has shown no remore, and has gone on to re-offend, shows that he should be, locked away for the rest of his life. If he rots in there, then why should I care? x

I get what you are saying, but when other children were let down in this fashion (for example Victoria Climbie, Baby Peter) and they went the other way, and the child died, then the system was looked at, changes were (supposedly) made, and individuals were punished.

If they dont learn from the mistakes they made with the boys, then who's to say in 20 years time our children wont be on here writing in a similar debate about a very similar situation?

I think lessons can always be learnt, but I dont think any of those people should be punished, that was the question. The boys should have been punished, and imo, 7 years with outtings, shopping trips, and regular contact with family, was not punishment enough.

 

[highhopes19]

there are many, many other children in this country that have been through terrible abuse in their lives, they dont go onto hurt and kill other people .

life should mean life, whatever age you are! at 10 i knew right from wrong and im sure majority of most 10 year olds would .
disgusting, vile creatures (i won even call them human beings as to me they dont deserve that) like that should never be allowed out back into society.

even if they are rehabilitated and its apparantly worked and their "cured" can anyone actually say that they would feel 100% safe with the knowledge that their walking around the same streets as you, our children and our families.... because i certainly wouldnt .

why does the goverment waste money on these people trying to rehabilitate them, why not put money into decent children and people who play by the rules etc and help them get a decent start in life instead of this lowlife!!! .

 

[AppleBlossom]

I get what some of you are saying about the system letting them down. And yes, maybe it did. But who was to know they would commit such a horrific crime? There are kids that come from abused homes all over the country and they don't all resort to torturing and murdering a small child. I think it's awful they were abused and I'm sure that probably had something to do with their obviously aggressive nature. But to physically torture and end somebody's life, that takes a very certain type of person with a very certain type of mindset. It wasn't like they did it by accident, they had every intention of taking that little boy away to kill him, but not before they played their vile games with him first. I hate seeing that CCTV still of them holding Jamie's hand in that shopping centre because you know what was going through their minds, that they intended to take that boy and murder him. Just for their own amusement. Their parents may have been violent and abusive and perhaps you would expect them to get into a life of crime, maybe doing drugs, shoplifting etc. But, imo, a murderer creates themselves, regardless of their upbringing.

 

[AppleBlossom]

And just to add, I don't believe that the boys should be killed for what they did. An eye for an eye is BS. It's lowering yourself to their level which I don't think is acceptable on any level. They were boys when this happened and rightly or wrongly, they did their "time". It's just unfortunate that Venables has ruined is by not keeping his nose clean

 

[Avalanche]

They were children that were old enough to know right from wrong, I was 10 when they killed Jamie, and I was heartbroken. I dont know if people are born evil or not, to be honest, i dont think its something any of us will ever know. Once again, how could it have been prevented? They were educated, councilled, etc etc, in 'prison'- did that prevent him re-offending? Nope, sure didnt. Would he murder again, given the chance? I think so.

They were not born 10 year olds. That's the point I've been trying to get at. A newborn baby does not know right from wrong. They were abused, beaten and abandoned by their parents which somehow contributed to them thinking violence was allowed and normal, and caused them to commit the orignal crime.

As for him re-offending, again we need to look at the prison and penal system. He has been in prison since he was 10 years old. He was tried as an adult, which has since been ruled was against his human rights. He was locked up for much of the time in solitary confinement, he was reported to have PTSD. Now, how many 10 year olds do we know who don't need a parent, love, care, etc. These 10 year old were in a prison system. What they lacked as young children was perpetuated in prison. We have no idea how they were rehabilitated, cared for etc but the penal system was not only responsible for this but also for raising them as children, teenagers and adults.

As adults I think they are absolutely responsible for their own actions, and I DO think he should be returned to prison as it's quite clear he cannot function in mainstream society, nor should he be allowed to. He's had a chance to live a normal life, and he should be returned into the system, correctly managed and the penal system should realise he is not able to live outside incarceration.

He is a danger to himself, and anyone around him because he lacks the very basic life skills that should have been taught to him as a child that would have prevented the murder in the first place.

He was failed firstly by his parents, but has been failed at every level by the penal system and we too have been failed by them for allowing this to happen.

IMO people shouldn't focus on the witch hunt and should instead be putting pressure on the organisations involved to make sure this never happens again, and that he is not released again and that offending children are probably rehabilitated while in the system.

 

[babybaillie]

He shouldnt get another identity. They should let him out and see how long it takes for someone to get him. Why is it the scum get protected in our country!!!

 

[Avalanche]

I get what some of you are saying about the system letting them down. And yes, maybe it did. But who was to know they would commit such a horrific crime?

They'd already been seen committing acts of violence towards younger children, including strangulation. They'd also been seen taking animals down to the tracks where the murder occurred, and killing them there quite brutally.

All very disturbing behaviour that was gradually escalating and allowed to continue.

 

[AppleBlossom]

I get what some of you are saying about the system letting them down. And yes, maybe it did. But who was to know they would commit such a horrific crime?

They'd already been seen committing acts of violence towards younger children, including strangulation. They'd also been seen taking animals down to the tracks where the murder occurred, and killing them there quite brutally.

All very disturbing behaviour that was gradually escalating and allowed to continue.

Ahh I see

 

[Avalanche]

He shouldnt get another identity. They should let him out and see how long it takes for someone to get him. Why is it the scum get protected in our country!!!

He shouldn't even be allowed out in mainstream society again IMO. He doesn't function in anyway whatsoever as a normal person and is a danger to people around him.

 

[AppleBlossom]

I agree, he has had his chance in mainstream society and he has proven that he can't function and is quite clearly a danger to people and to himself. I think he is just destined for a life inside a prison cell

 

[LoraLoo]

They were children that were old enough to know right from wrong, I was 10 when they killed Jamie, and I was heartbroken. I dont know if people are born evil or not, to be honest, i dont think its something any of us will ever know. Once again, how could it have been prevented? They were educated, councilled, etc etc, in 'prison'- did that prevent him re-offending? Nope, sure didnt. Would he murder again, given the chance? I think so.

They were not born 10 year olds. That's the point I've been trying to get at. A newborn baby does not know right from wrong. They were abused, beaten and abandoned by their parents which somehow contributed to them thinking violence was allowed and normal, and caused them to commit the orignal crime.

As for him re-offending, again we need to look at the prison and penal system. He has been in prison since he was 10 years old. He was tried as an adult, which has since been ruled was against his human rights. He was locked up for much of the time in solitary confinement, he was reported to have PTSD. Now, how many 10 year olds do we know who don't need a parent, love, care, etc. These 10 year old were in a prison system. What they lacked as young children was perpetuated in prison. We have no idea how they were rehabilitated, cared for etc but the penal system was not only responsible for this but also for raising them as children, teenagers and adults.

As adults I think they are absolutely responsible for their own actions, and I DO think he should be returned to prison as it's quite clear he cannot function in mainstream society, nor should he be allowed to. He's had a chance to live a normal life, and he should be returned into the system, correctly managed and the penal system should realise he is not able to live outside incarceration.

He is a danger to himself, and anyone around him because he lacks the very basic life skills that should have been taught to him as a child that would have prevented the murder in the first place.

He was failed firstly by his parents, but has been failed at every level by the penal system and we too have been failed by them for allowing this to happen.

IMO people shouldn't focus on the witch hunt and should instead be putting pressure on the organisations involved to make sure this never happens again, and that he is not released again and that offending children are probably rehabilitated while in the system.

There is nothing in there that I disagree with.

 

[EmziixBo0o]

i dont know why people disagree with why he shouldnt be killed,
he should be killed, anybody that does sick things like that to a child should, anybody that harms a child in anyway should!

If it was my LO or a member of my family, or my friends LO id want him killed, and im sure others that knew that child would agree and want the same, i hate to even imagine the pain that familys going through, expsecially the mother! he should be left to rot in a cell actually, he isnt even worth the trouble!

How did the mother know jon anyway for him to be taking Jamie out?

 

[suzib76]

i dont know why people disagree with why he shouldnt be killed,
he should be killed, anybody that does sick things like that to a child should, anybody that harms a child in anyway should!

If it was my LO or a member of my family, or my friends LO id want him killed, and im sure others that knew that child would agree and want the same, i hate to even imagine the pain that familys going through, expsecially the mother! he should be left to rot in a cell actually, he isnt even worth the trouble!

How did the mother know jon anyway for him to be taking Jamie out?

she didnt, him and thomson took him

 

[suzib76]

He shouldnt get another identity. They should let him out and see how long it takes for someone to get him. Why is it the scum get protected in our country!!!

He shouldn't even be allowed out in mainstream society again IMO. He doesn't function in anyway whatsoever as a normal person and is a danger to people around him.

and this i agree with 100%

 

[LoraLoo]

i dont know why people disagree with why he shouldnt be killed,
he should be killed, anybody that does sick things like that to a child should, anybody that harms a child in anyway should!

If it was my LO or a member of my family, or my friends LO id want him killed, and im sure others that knew that child would agree and want the same, i hate to even imagine the pain that familys going through, expsecially the mother! he should be left to rot in a cell actually, he isnt even worth the trouble!

How did the mother know jon anyway for him to be taking Jamie out?

They kidnapped him x

 

[Avalanche]

How did the mother know jon anyway for him to be taking Jamie out?

He didn't. He was with his Mum in a shopping centre, his Mum wasn't paying attention and he wandered off. Thompson and Venables then found Jamie Bulger wandering around and took him to the train tracks. It wasn't a pre-meditated attack.

 

[louandivy]

i dont know why people disagree with why he shouldnt be killed,
he should be killed, anybody that does sick things like that to a child should, anybody that harms a child in anyway should!

If it was my LO or a member of my family, or my friends LO id want him killed, and im sure others that knew that child would agree and want the same, i hate to even imagine the pain that familys going through, expsecially the mother! he should be left to rot in a cell actually, he isnt even worth the trouble!

How did the mother know jon anyway for him to be taking Jamie out?

How can you condemn one murder but condone another?

 

[special_kala]

They had tried it before though with another little kid but the mum noticed