Kate McCann releasing a book...

[Foogirl]

Wow..they have found out it is their child after all!!!! DNA tests have proven it!! OMG how shocking!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24645947

I just saw that on the news. Got to have sympathy for them.

 

[mumoffive]

I have complete sympathy!

Also heard the police seemingly have something significant as they are investigating things in Portugal now. Must have some lead! It needs to be something new seemingly to have the right to open things up again! The plot thickens.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

definitely. removing the child first and asking questions later is definitely the wrong thing. They wouldn't get away with doing it to people who weren't gypsies so they shouldn't be doing it to them either.

but what if they took DNA and left her with them, turns out she isn't theirs and when they go back they have done a runner or the child been moved on? then they would get severely slated for that.

it wasn't just looks. they couldn't produce a birth certificate and the hospital had no record of the birth.

 

[Foogirl]

definitely. removing the child first and asking questions later is definitely the wrong thing. They wouldn't get away with doing it to people who weren't gypsies so they shouldn't be doing it to them either.

but what if they took DNA and left her with them, turns out she isn't theirs and when they go back they have done a runner or the child been moved on? then they would get severely slated for that.

it wasn't just looks. they couldn't produce a birth certificate and the hospital had no record of the birth.

As someone pointed out, many in the travelling community have problems with basic literacy. It's no surprise they might not have all their paperwork in order. I know little about the community but I would suspect that most births don't take place in a hospital. Also if officials showed up on many doorsteps across the country there may well be a lot of people for whom a birth certificate isn't neatly files and easy to get to hand. I asked my mum for mine when I was eighteen and she had lost it. And she's fairly organised. She had my brothers and sisters filed but mine was nowhere to be seen. It's a case of imposing social ideals on a group who have a very different way of life.

 

[Tasha]

You keep them all together but supervised, it's traumatic for all involved a child being taken into care, much better to stay together as a family unit until they know for sure.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

so essentially the police and SS are damned if they do and damned if they don't?

 

[Tasha]

I don't understand what you mean by they are damned if they do or are damned if they dont. They could of kept the family together but supervised, that way they couldnt run off but nothing as traumatic as a family being ripped apart would of happened.

 

[Foogirl]

I agree, there is always a better way. This isn't about taking action or not, it is about taking appropriate action. Families across the land are now going to be looking at themselves and wondering if they are next. All because people are too quick to jump to extreme action.

 

[kit10grl]

Yes they could have done a runner if left alone but defintily supervised and together would have been better. As it stands now this totally innocent family had one of theirs kids taken from them and kept away from them for no good reason other than they didn't look alike. Like I said they wouldn't do it that way to the average joe on the street cos they have black hair and their kids are blond so why is it allowed because they were travellers?

Its the same double standard as saying the mcanns got away with leaving the kids unsupervised cos they are posh doctors but the general public would have been prosecuted. All familes should be treated the same. How do those parents now explain to that child what happened so that she now doesn't fear being taken away again everytime she meets someone official.

 

[LuckyYem]

I just hear Jeremy Vine interviewing somebody about this case - I missed the first part. He said there was 4 things that were implimented before they removed the child - I missed the first point, the second point was they asked for a birth certificate which the parents produced but the child uses a different name, thirdly they asked for a passport for the child which the parents produced but because the picture on it was taken when she was a baby and the child is older they couldn't confirm it was the child (I can understand this dd1 pp was issused when she was 8 months now nearly 4 she looks nothing like her pic!) And the last point was the spoke with a Dr who said in his oppinion it would be highly unlikely that the child came from roma parents. Apparently it was now 6.30pm and the decision was then taken to remove the child. I think its a horrible situation all round.

 

[Donna35]

I put my kids in kids club for 1hr 30 mins most days when we were on holiday. They asked to go and enjoyed it, our holiday was still about them. They always had a different activity on every session. It also gave us an hour to go to the gym/sunbathe, I must admit it was nice for us too.

We've been to hotels where the kids have asked to go to the kids club but we've refused to leave them due to lack of security, poor staff etc. Last year one hotel's kids club had no gate or fence and was right next to a swimming pool, and when we asked where to sign her in they said they don't need to be signed in. Needless to say we didn't leave her there!

I know this is o/t, but my point is I don't think them using a kids club should be used against them. It's not for everyone but I also don't think it holds any weight when discussing if they were involved or not.

Sorry I may have come across wrong I have nothing against kids clubs and if JJ was older and asked to go I'd certainly put him in for an hour or two. The McCann's weren't using the kids club like that though the kids were in from 9.30 in the morning til lunchtime then again straight after lunch til the evening and would have high tea there at 5pm so they weren't seeing them pretty much all day. But what REALLY gets me over it is they still dumped the twins in there even after what happened to Madeleine...surely if she really had been abducted then the abductor could work in or be related in a way to someone who works in there? I wouldn't want my remaining kids out of my sight if that happened to me.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Yes they could have done a runner if left alone but defintily supervised and together would have been better. As it stands now this totally innocent family had one of theirs kids taken from them and kept away from them for no good reason other than they didn't look alike. Like I said they wouldn't do it that way to the average joe on the street cos they have black hair and their kids are blond so why is it allowed because they were travellers?

Its the same double standard as saying the mcanns got away with leaving the kids unsupervised cos they are posh doctors but the general public would have been prosecuted. All familes should be treated the same. How do those parents now explain to that child what happened so that she now doesn't fear being taken away again everytime she meets someone official.

Don't worry, I'm sure they will get compensation now.

It was 'allowed' because the child looked nothing like the parents and the rest of the siblings and given the case in Greece they had to have been seen to act. Also if it's known that roma/travellers do this then they have to check. (when i used to surf i had my car searched for drugs due to the surfboard on the top - i never have done drugs but know a lot of surfers do, so I was fine with it as i had nothing to hide).

and i don't know how those specific parents would explain it. i know how I would. and they worked with the police from the start so they obviously knew they would be vindcated by DNA.

anyway, I'm out. I think they made the right call under the circumstances.

 

[Feltzy]

I put my kids in kids club for 1hr 30 mins most days when we were on holiday. They asked to go and enjoyed it, our holiday was still about them. They always had a different activity on every session. It also gave us an hour to go to the gym/sunbathe, I must admit it was nice for us too.

We've been to hotels where the kids have asked to go to the kids club but we've refused to leave them due to lack of security, poor staff etc. Last year one hotel's kids club had no gate or fence and was right next to a swimming pool, and when we asked where to sign her in they said they don't need to be signed in. Needless to say we didn't leave her there!

I know this is o/t, but my point is I don't think them using a kids club should be used against them. It's not for everyone but I also don't think it holds any weight when discussing if they were involved or not.

Sorry I may have come across wrong I have nothing against kids clubs and if JJ was older and asked to go I'd certainly put him in for an hour or two. The McCann's weren't using the kids club like that though the kids were in from 9.30 in the morning til lunchtime then again straight after lunch til the evening and would have high tea there at 5pm so they weren't seeing them pretty much all day. But what REALLY gets me over it is they still dumped the twins in there even after what happened to Madeleine...surely if she really had been abducted then the abductor could work in or be related in a way to someone who works in there? I wouldn't want my remaining kids out of my sight if that happened to me.

Yeah that is a long time. I didn't realise they put the twins in the crèche after Madeleine disappeared. I guess they'll have needed time to speak to police and whatever else they had to do in the first few days after? I wonder why they didn't just ask one of their friends to watch them if they needed help though? I would have done a lot of things differently but it's hard to judge without knowing their reasoning.

 

[Tasha]

Don't worry, I'm sure they will get compensation now.

It was 'allowed' because the child looked nothing like the parents and the rest of the siblings and given the case in Greece they had to have been seen to act. Also if it's known that roma/travellers do this then they have to check. (when i used to surf i had my car searched for drugs due to the surfboard on the top - i never have done drugs but know a lot of surfers do, so I was fine with it as i had nothing to hide).

and i don't know how those specific parents would explain it. i know how I would. and they worked with the police from the start so they obviously knew they would be vindcated by DNA.

anyway, I'm out. I think they made the right call under the circumstances.

Compensation won't make up for the trauma. It won't stop the child being terrified that she is going to be taken from mummy and daddy again. It won't make a section of society who sometimes already have issues with the authorities trust the authorities more.

I don't believe that having your child taken from you is even the same as your car being searched from drugs but since you bring that up no I don't think that's acceptable any more than I think it is okay to stop and search young black men purely because they are young black men. This sorts of things only bring prejudices and mistrust.

And it being known that Roma's/travellers do this? It isn't known THEY do this. It is known a minority have done this. We wouldn't expect the authorities to treat all men with black hair as rapists because it is known they raped someone. They didn't one man did.

The actions of the minority should not affect how the majority are treated. You don't see them taking my kids off me and they don't look like me, but that is because my background is different which makes this prejudice and discrimination. It really is as simple as that to me.

 

[kit10grl]

Don't worry, I'm sure they will get compensation now.

It was 'allowed' because the child looked nothing like the parents and the rest of the siblings and given the case in Greece they had to have been seen to act. Also if it's known that roma/travellers do this then they have to check. (when i used to surf i had my car searched for drugs due to the surfboard on the top - i never have done drugs but know a lot of surfers do, so I was fine with it as i had nothing to hide).

and i don't know how those specific parents would explain it. i know how I would. and they worked with the police from the start so they obviously knew they would be vindcated by DNA.

anyway, I'm out. I think they made the right call under the circumstances.

Compensation won't make up for the trauma. It won't stop the child being terrified that she is going to be taken from mummy and daddy again. It won't make a section of society who sometimes already have issues with the authorities trust the authorities more.

I don't believe that having your child taken from you is even the same as your car being searched from drugs but since you bring that up no I don't think that's acceptable any more than I think it is okay to stop and search young black men purely because they are young black men. This sorts of things only bring prejudices and mistrust.

And it being known that Roma's/travellers do this? It isn't known THEY do this. It is known a minority have done this. We wouldn't expect the authorities to treat all men with black hair as rapists because it is known they raped someone. They didn't one man did.

The actions of the minority should not affect how the majority are treated. You don't see them taking my kids off me and they don't look like me, but that is because my background is different which makes this prejudice and discrimination. It really is as simple as that to me.

Exactly this ^ How can you even compare being stopped to have your car searched to having someone remove your children from your care? That astounds me. I have a white friend whose son is very dark skinned due to his dad. She owns her own house, is a trained nurse and has never been stopped to have anyone ask is that really your child? Can you imagine the uproar if he was 'just taken' because they don't look the same?

It wouldn't be allowed to happen. They only took the child in this situation because they were travellers. This is discrimination.

And regardless of the politics involved of it from the childs point of view I'm sure it was just as scary as actually being kidnapped by strangers. She was taken from her parents and none of them had done anything wrong. Its not about how much compensation they get because that will never make that child totally trusting now that she is safe with her parents.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Don't worry, I'm sure they will get compensation now.

It was 'allowed' because the child looked nothing like the parents and the rest of the siblings and given the case in Greece they had to have been seen to act. Also if it's known that roma/travellers do this then they have to check. (when i used to surf i had my car searched for drugs due to the surfboard on the top - i never have done drugs but know a lot of surfers do, so I was fine with it as i had nothing to hide).

and i don't know how those specific parents would explain it. i know how I would. and they worked with the police from the start so they obviously knew they would be vindcated by DNA.

anyway, I'm out. I think they made the right call under the circumstances.

Compensation won't make up for the trauma. It won't stop the child being terrified that she is going to be taken from mummy and daddy again. It won't make a section of society who sometimes already have issues with the authorities trust the authorities more.

I don't believe that having your child taken from you is even the same as your car being searched from drugs but since you bring that up no I don't think that's acceptable any more than I think it is okay to stop and search young black men purely because they are young black men. This sorts of things only bring prejudices and mistrust.

And it being known that Roma's/travellers do this? It isn't known THEY do this. It is known a minority have done this. We wouldn't expect the authorities to treat all men with black hair as rapists because it is known they raped someone. They didn't one man did.

The actions of the minority should not affect how the majority are treated. You don't see them taking my kids off me and they don't look like me, but that is because my background is different which makes this prejudice and discrimination. It really is as simple as that to me.

Exactly this ^ How can you even compare being stopped to have your car searched to having someone remove your children from your care? That astounds me. I have a white friend whose son is very dark skinned due to his dad. She owns her own house, is a trained nurse and has never been stopped to have anyone ask is that really your child? Can you imagine the uproar if he was 'just taken' because they don't look the same?

It wouldn't be allowed to happen. They only took the child in this situation because they were travellers. This is discrimination.

And regardless of the politics involved of it from the childs point of view I'm sure it was just as scary as actually being kidnapped by strangers. She was taken from her parents and none of them had done anything wrong. Its not about how much compensation they get because that will never make that child totally trusting now that she is safe with her parents.

I wasn't comparing it, I was trying to make the point that sometimes certain people are stopped for things because of associations and that usually there is a reason behind it.

and its nothing like being kidnapped by strangers.

 

[LuckyYem]

Its a horrific situation all round but as I said in a previous post it wasn't just a simple case of her not looking like her parents they were asked to provide proof that she was their child which they (apparently) couldn't. Dd2 looks nothing like dh (dd1 doesn't either but nowhere near as bad as dd2) she is blond haired, blue eyed and has fair skin. She actually looks like my brother. Dh is dark haired, brown eyed and has olive skin. Me I am dark haired, blue eyed and avarage skin. As we all know children can have different combinations from both sides of the family. I think based on the imformation they had at that time they were stuck between a rock and a hard place. I honestly don't know what the answer was in this situation. Can you imagine the public outcry if they hadn't removed the child and they upped and left especially after the information of what checks they had tried were made public. I'm not for one second implying they were right or wrong but I know I would not have wanted to make the decision either way.

 

[emyandpotato]

Don't worry, I'm sure they will get compensation now.

It was 'allowed' because the child looked nothing like the parents and the rest of the siblings and given the case in Greece they had to have been seen to act. Also if it's known that roma/travellers do this then they have to check. (when i used to surf i had my car searched for drugs due to the surfboard on the top - i never have done drugs but know a lot of surfers do, so I was fine with it as i had nothing to hide).

and i don't know how those specific parents would explain it. i know how I would. and they worked with the police from the start so they obviously knew they would be vindcated by DNA.

anyway, I'm out. I think they made the right call under the circumstances.

Compensation won't make up for the trauma. It won't stop the child being terrified that she is going to be taken from mummy and daddy again. It won't make a section of society who sometimes already have issues with the authorities trust the authorities more.

I don't believe that having your child taken from you is even the same as your car being searched from drugs but since you bring that up no I don't think that's acceptable any more than I think it is okay to stop and search young black men purely because they are young black men. This sorts of things only bring prejudices and mistrust.

And it being known that Roma's/travellers do this? It isn't known THEY do this. It is known a minority have done this. We wouldn't expect the authorities to treat all men with black hair as rapists because it is known they raped someone. They didn't one man did.

The actions of the minority should not affect how the majority are treated. You don't see them taking my kids off me and they don't look like me, but that is because my background is different which makes this prejudice and discrimination. It really is as simple as that to me.

Thank you. I heard on the news recently that 60% of young white people in the UK have an active dislike and distrust of and for Muslims. Things like that just break my heart. And stereotyping in this way is exactly what the problem is.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Don't worry, I'm sure they will get compensation now.

It was 'allowed' because the child looked nothing like the parents and the rest of the siblings and given the case in Greece they had to have been seen to act. Also if it's known that roma/travellers do this then they have to check. (when i used to surf i had my car searched for drugs due to the surfboard on the top - i never have done drugs but know a lot of surfers do, so I was fine with it as i had nothing to hide).

and i don't know how those specific parents would explain it. i know how I would. and they worked with the police from the start so they obviously knew they would be vindcated by DNA.

anyway, I'm out. I think they made the right call under the circumstances.

Compensation won't make up for the trauma. It won't stop the child being terrified that she is going to be taken from mummy and daddy again. It won't make a section of society who sometimes already have issues with the authorities trust the authorities more.

I don't believe that having your child taken from you is even the same as your car being searched from drugs but since you bring that up no I don't think that's acceptable any more than I think it is okay to stop and search young black men purely because they are young black men. This sorts of things only bring prejudices and mistrust.

And it being known that Roma's/travellers do this? It isn't known THEY do this. It is known a minority have done this. We wouldn't expect the authorities to treat all men with black hair as rapists because it is known they raped someone. They didn't one man did.

The actions of the minority should not affect how the majority are treated. You don't see them taking my kids off me and they don't look like me, but that is because my background is different which makes this prejudice and discrimination. It really is as simple as that to me.

Thank you. I heard on the news recently that 60% of young white people in the UK have an active dislike and distrust of and for Muslims. Things like that just break my heart. And stereotyping in this way is exactly what the problem is.

Oh, so because I said "IF they are known for it" (lets face it, its happened because of the situation in Greece" I now dislike and discriminate against muslims. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Tasha]

I wasn't comparing it, I was trying to make the point that sometimes certain people are stopped for things because of associations and that usually there is a reason behind it.

and its nothing like being kidnapped by strangers.

Those reasons behind it are based on prejudices, judgements, preconceptions. Just because it happens doesn't make it okay.

She was taken by them from her Mummy, Daddy and rest of the family, they were strangers, it would of been everything like being kidnapped by strangers to her.

Its a horrific situation all round but as I said in a previous post it wasn't just a simple case of her not looking like her parents they were asked to provide proof that she was their child which they (apparently) couldn't. Dd2 looks nothing like dh (dd1 doesn't either but nowhere near as bad as dd2) she is blond haired, blue eyed and has fair skin. She actually looks like my brother. Dh is dark haired, brown eyed and has olive skin. Me I am dark haired, blue eyed and avarage skin. As we all know children can have different combinations from both sides of the family. I think based on the imformation they had at that time they were stuck between a rock and a hard place. I honestly don't know what the answer was in this situation. Can you imagine the public outcry if they hadn't removed the child and they upped and left especially after the information of what checks they had tried were made public. I'm not for one second implying they were right or wrong but I know I would not have wanted to make the decision either way.

I couldn't prove my children are mine right now either, but it is unlikely I would be asked given my background is different.

I said before but there was a middle ground, keep them together but supervised. It didn't have to be either take her or leave her and they go.

Thank you. I heard on the news recently that 60% of young white people in the UK have an active dislike and distrust of and for Muslims. Things like that just break my heart. And stereotyping in this way is exactly what the problem is.

It is beyond sad isn't it? And what makes it worse is that it doesn't surprise me at all. I live in London and see it regularly