Kate McCann releasing a book...

[rosie272]

It's a highly emotive topic that obviously splits opinion down the middle, but I do wish people would stop using the line 'If she were a SINGLE parent blah blah blah' - I find that offensive tbh - being a single parent doesn't make you any less vigilant!! What the McCanns did was wrong IMO, and they will have to live with the guilt for the rest of their lives. If you don't wish to contribute towards the Find Madeliene fund then don't buy the book! I know I won't be.

 

[binxyboo]

I still don't understand how people can call planning to leave your 3 children totally alone as a mistake

They didnt see the danger, from listening to LBC I see its not as uncommon as I thought it was. One women has already called up to say she done it before on more than one occasion.

What else would you call it? I personally dont think they had anything to do with her going missing so to me its a mistake, they didnt mean for this outcome.

selfish and irresponsible

you have to lack serious braincells if you don't see the danger

We havent said that they arent selfish and irresponsible but they made a mistake, one they WONT make again

Its a bit late for learning lessons IMO

 

[Laura2919]

I still don't understand how people can call planning to leave your 3 children totally alone as a mistake

They didnt see the danger, from listening to LBC I see its not as uncommon as I thought it was. One women has already called up to say she done it before on more than one occasion.

What else would you call it? I personally dont think they had anything to do with her going missing so to me its a mistake, they didnt mean for this outcome.

selfish and irresponsible

you have to lack serious braincells if you don't see the danger

We havent said that they arent selfish and irresponsible but they made a mistake, one they WONT make again

Its a bit late for learning lessons IMO

Yeah it is, but they learnt it all the same.

 

[TattiesMum]

The blood they found, how do they know it was madeliene's?

It's complicated and it's been a while since I had all of this information (in respect of Madeleine McCann) at the forefront of my brain , but basically they found enough 'markers' to match the DNA found in the hire car to Madeleine's known DNA, to qualify for a solid identification as a 'match' according to UK rules. The DNA sample known to be Madeleine's came from her toothbrush and bedding at their UK home address (the police accompanied Gerry McCann to their home to collect it).

However Portugal sets it's 'match' level at a couple of 'markers' higher than we do, so the results are therefore classified as 'inconclusive' ... especially as the FSS (Uk forensic science labs who did the testing) first of all claimed a match and then mysteriously started backtracking.

There are a few really informative websites out there with a lot of information that isn't widely available from the mainstream media if anyone wants to read a bit more:

https://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/category/Interpreting-DNA-Test-Results-1-940919.html

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/forum

https://www.mccannfiles.com/


They all have links to other sites etc - including transcripts of all police interviews and translations of the book written by the Portuguese Detective - which is well worth a read.

I am - as you can probably tell LOL - of the "There's more to this than meets the eye" school of thought.

There is absolutely NO evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that Madeleine was abducted but there are some rather odd things that point to another scenario altogether However all of it is circumstantial and there is insufficient evidence to form a prosecution under Portuguese Law - which is why the case was shelved. Despite what the UK media would have us believe the McCanns were never 'declared innocent' or 'exonerated' by the Portuguese Attorney General - it was simply deemed that there was insufficient evidence to proceed.... make of that what you will

 

[haze]

They said they found her blood in their hire car but in the sun today she said they hired the car after she went missing, so how was her blood in there? unless I misread it?

 

[Laura2919]

Thats why I want to read the book also. The newspapers seem to have different versions all the time and this was supposed to have come from the book.

 

[TattiesMum]

They said they found her blood in their hire car but in the sun today she said they hired the car after she went missing, so how was her blood in there? unless I misread it?

No, you didn't misread it Hon - that's kind of the point.... her DNA was in the car but the car wasn't hired until quite some time after she went missing.

The sniffer dogs for both cadavers (the smell of death) and blood both alerted at the car .... video here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lrrMoUr3OA


It's a case that has fascinated me from the beginning - there are just so many anomalies.

 

[AppleBlossom]

The points about the cadavar dogs were the thing that disturbed me the most when I read that 50 facts thing

 

[haze]

They said they found her blood in their hire car but in the sun today she said they hired the car after she went missing, so how was her blood in there? unless I misread it?

No, you didn't misread it Hon - that's kind of the point.... her DNA was in the car but the car wasn't hired until quite some time after she went missing.

The sniffer dogs for both cadavers (the smell of death) and blood both alerted at the car .... video here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lrrMoUr3OA


It's a case that has fascinated me from the beginning - there are just so many anomalies.

How has that not been looked into more!? I find that very worrying.

 

[TattiesMum]

The points about the cadavar dogs were the thing that disturbed me the most when I read that 50 facts thing

Yes ... the dogs are the persuading factor for me. Dogs don't lie and whilst people will claim that they may be mistaken it seems unlikely that two separate dogs, trained to search for separate things, who have both been proved 100% reliable in all other cases, should both be wrong in this one case

Here's more about Eddie (the cadaver dog) and Keela (the blood dog) ...

https://dogsdontlie.com/main/2005/1...og-keela-earns-more-than-her-chief-constable/

https://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

https://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic35.html

https://www.itv.com/PressCentre/SendInTheDogs/Ep2Wk30/default.html

 

[Blah11]

in regards to the whole a guilty parent wouldn't act like that - the shannon matthews case? Also just shows how social class DOES matter when it comes to media backing. Shannon never had the media coverage that Maddie did and it happened in the UK. Odd.

 

[AppleBlossom]

I assume the only reason the McCann's weren't done for neglect was because they were in Portugal and so technically under Portugese law, which I assume is more tolerant of it?

 

[Jem_x3]

The blood they found, how do they know it was madeliene's?

It's complicated and it's been a while since I had all of this information (in respect of Madeleine McCann) at the forefront of my brain , but basically they found enough 'markers' to match the DNA found in the hire car to Madeleine's known DNA, to qualify for a solid identification as a 'match' according to UK rules. The DNA sample known to be Madeleine's came from her toothbrush and bedding at their UK home address (the police accompanied Gerry McCann to their home to collect it).

However Portugal sets it's 'match' level at a couple of 'markers' higher than we do, so the results are therefore classified as 'inconclusive' ... especially as the FSS (Uk forensic science labs who did the testing) first of all claimed a match and then mysteriously started backtracking.

There are a few really informative websites out there with a lot of information that isn't widely available from the mainstream media if anyone wants to read a bit more:

https://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/category/Interpreting-DNA-Test-Results-1-940919.html

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/forum

https://www.mccannfiles.com/


They all have links to other sites etc - including transcripts of all police interviews and translations of the book written by the Portuguese Detective - which is well worth a read.

I am - as you can probably tell LOL - of the "There's more to this than meets the eye" school of thought.

There is absolutely NO evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that Madeleine was abducted but there are some rather odd things that point to another scenario altogether However all of it is circumstantial and there is insufficient evidence to form a prosecution under Portuguese Law - which is why the case was shelved. Despite what the UK media would have us believe the McCanns were never 'declared innocent' or 'exonerated' by the Portuguese Attorney General - it was simply deemed that there was insufficient evidence to proceed.... make of that what you will

Interesting info and links I just cannot buy the fact that they would of been able to move the body 24 days after death. They were suspects themselves and the place was surrounded by press, Portugese and English police and people. How could they possibly have been able to move that body without being seen? Especially since they were suspected by the police so they must of been watching them very closely.

 

[special_kala]

Just reading the sun extracts from her book

as I was dropping the twins off at toddler club

I know I've never lost w child so dont knoe but this was in Portugal like 3 months after M went missing. I wouldst let my kids leave my sight in that country

 

[TattiesMum]

How has that not been looked into more!? I find that very worrying.

Basically because the dogs' reactions aren't proof in and of themselves - the dogs are there to pinpoint areas that need to be looked at more closely.

Samples were taken from the car and the clothes etc and sent to the FSS (Forensic Science Service) in Birmingham. Then there was all this confusion and the forensic evidence was declared to be 'inconclusive' and the samples were destroyed by the lab.

Personally I just can't think of any valid reason why a cadaver dog would alert to a wardrobe in the apartment, behind the apartment settee, under a bush on the apartment patio, a T shirt belonging to the missing child, the child's soft toy, a few items of clothing belonging to the child's mother and the back of a hire car not hired until after she had disappeared .... but it's all circumstantial

 

[TattiesMum]

I assume the only reason the McCann's weren't done for neglect was because they were in Portugal and so technically under Portugese law, which I assume is more tolerant of it?

Not at all - in fact the Portuguese are even stricter on it than we are here ... and it carries a jail sentence if harm has come to a child as a result of them being left alone :

Which may well be why the McCanns stick to this "there is no evidence that Madeleine has come to any harm" stuff.

It's widely believed that the Portuguese didn't prosecute them for neglect because of pressure from the UK not to.

 

[haze]

How has that not been looked into more!? I find that very worrying.

Basically because the dogs' reactions aren't proof in and of themselves - the dogs are there to pinpoint areas that need to be looked at more closely.

Samples were taken from the car and the clothes etc and sent to the FSS (Forensic Science Service) in Birmingham. Then there was all this confusion and the forensic evidence was declared to be 'inconclusive' and the samples were destroyed by the lab.

Personally I just can't think of any valid reason why a cadaver dog would alert to a wardrobe in the apartment, behind the apartment settee, under a bush on the apartment patio, a T shirt belonging to the missing child, the child's soft toy, a few items of clothing belonging to the child's mother and the back of a hire car not hired until after she had disappeared .... but it's all circumstantial

she started making up excuses about why the teddy smelt and why the car smelt etc, I mean taking the teddy to work with her which is why it smelt like corpse? Something just doesn't sit right.

 

[Sarah&Ady]

Wow! There are a lot of perfect Mothers on here!
Would any of you judge Sara Payne for letting her little girl Sarah go out to play in a field?
How about Casey Mullen? She was at home and her uncle murdered her with her Mum downstairs.
My point is that be your child at home in your arms or in another room, house anywhere.. things can happen. You cannot watch your child at all times.
Yes, Madeleine was left unattended .. a lot of children are. I have been wondering what it may be like for Kate to perhaps stumble across these posts, after all she is a Mum and may already be a member on here! I cant imagine the sheer agony of reading such uncaring, judgemental posts.
I have said before and I will say again... NO ONE can punish themselves more than they already do.
As a parent you can be distracted, tired, frustrated, even just simply switch off and not think about the consequences. We are only human.. being a Mum does not suddenly make you perfect.
I think that just maybe some people on here should just take a step back and just imagine for one second what this family have and are still going through.

I don't think it's a case of anyone being "perfect". Everyone makes MISTAKES. However, as many have already said, a mistake is turning your back when your baby is on the sofa and them rolling off, turning your back for a moment in a shop and having your child abucted and killed (I'd never read the details of the James Bulger case as I was young when it happened but I have just been crying & shaking for 20 minutes having read the facts on Wiki) or trusting your uncle with your child in the Casey Mullen case.

Making a concious decision to leave you children unattended in a room while you selfishly go for dinner is NOT a mistake. That is neglectful and the fact they have not had to go through the courts regarding that is poor.

None of us KNOW what happened. We can only make up our own minds based on our own parental instincts and the "facts" available. IF they are innocent then yes, they are being punished... but not through the courts and they should be. Any punishment in the courts would not compare to the punishment they are already experiencing for sure, however it will make the handling of the case of neglect fair and just.
Most of us are going to judge the McCanns because the whole concept of leaving a child unattended is so foreign and seems so selfish an act.

Comparing Maddies parent's behaviour to that of James Bulger etc is really insulting to them. We all get distracted at times... but there is such a big difference between getting distracted and making a choice to leave your child alone

I was asking if you would judge them... plenty have before. I hear a lot of talk of reins should have been used???
If you think they should be in court for child neglect then why dont you set up a petition on No.10? Or maybe even post a message on their website?
Is anyone on here really that heartless????

 

[TattiesMum]

Interesting info and links I just cannot buy the fact that they would of been able to move the body 24 days after death. They were suspects themselves and the place was surrounded by press, Portugese and English police and people. How could they possibly have been able to move that body without being seen? Especially since they were suspected by the police so they must of been watching them very closely.

Yes, that's quite a common reaction - but it is a bit of a misconception.

At that point the Portuguese Police and the Media were pretty distracted elsewhere with sightings etc and the McCanns had set up a routine in respect of daily press conferences in exchange for the media not camping out on their doorstep.

Really - read the Goncalo Amaral book. It's not published in the UK but the translation is here https://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/ and you'll see that it's not as impossible as you might think.

 

[Jem_x3]

Interesting info and links I just cannot buy the fact that they would of been able to move the body 24 days after death. They were suspects themselves and the place was surrounded by press, Portugese and English police and people. How could they possibly have been able to move that body without being seen? Especially since they were suspected by the police so they must of been watching them very closely.

Yes, that's quite a common reaction - but it is a bit of a misconception.

At that point the Portuguese Police and the Media were pretty distracted elsewhere with sightings etc and the McCanns had set up a routine in respect of daily press conferences in exchange for the media not camping out on their doorstep.

Really - read the Goncalo Amaral book. It's not published in the UK but the translation is here https://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/ and you'll see that it's not as impossible as you might think.

Ah interesting I'll have a read of that Also, where would they have hidden the body that it couldn't be found for them 24 days? Considering the place was supposedly being searched thoroughly. I don't know why I'm asking you questions as though you're directly involved in the investigation but you seem alot more clued up than most of us