Luxuries in prison?

[PeanutBean]

I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to turn their lives around. Isn't it better to have studied hard and got qualifications (they must be working to obtain them, they're not just given out) and come out and do something useful to society rather than come out knowing nothing more and with life offering nothing better? There are many ways to support everyday people in getting more qualifications. Loads of bursaries and ways of doing it. I've got a degree and did a PhD but I've just been offered a bursary to do a management NVQ to support my professional development and improve my volunteer management skills. It doesn't offer me more money but it does mean I will do my job better and the charity I work for couldn't have afforded the £900 it would cost to pay for the course. Anyone who hasn't got a degree already could go to uni next academic year and be entitled to all the loans any 18 year old gets after A-levels with additional maintenance loans for people who need the extra support for example from family commitments. If people want to educate themselves then there are ways and means. It's hardly fair to resent someone for studying to improve their prospects.

 

[Dragonfly]

I am all for people tuning their lives around and they should be helped get qualifications, sometimes thats what poeple need is a bit of help on the right track. Perhaps what I heard was sugar coating but from the family of the guy I know he had everything in that prison.

 

[day_dreamer]

It's hardly fair to resent someone for studying to improve their prospects.

I don't, I resent the fact that it was handed to him on a plate. Yes he had to put some effort in to be able to pass, but it hasn't cost him a penny. I would be the first to sign up if I could do a qualification for free, but sadly I have a job and a mortgage and countless bills to pay which would not be covered by a student loan.

I have no problems with people wanting to study and improve their prospects, but I do have a problem with it being handed to people for free. Especially when they're supposed to be being punished. Same goes for people on benefits and free college courses, but that's a whole other issue. Hard-working people who struggle to make ends meet will always get the raw end of the deal in this country, imho.

 

[pinkish_angel]

ok so what if they were given no education in prison? A young offender gets sent to prison for say, 4 years. Sits in a room all day, no stimulation, no chance of learning.. nothing! Release date comes... My gawd how would that individual even be able to attempt a reformation? How would they even stand any kind of chance to be 'normal' again. Its hard enough for an ex con to get given a chance in society regarding work. To take away education is like saying 'go to jail, throw away the key cuz u aint got a stinkin chance in hell of gettin a job when u come out'. The education system within prisons is to benefit us all, not just the prisoners. It gives them a chance to prove they have changed, a chance to give back by getting a job and paying taxes. Otherwise they would all have no option but to come back into the society and act out crime. What else would they have!! Its all about trying to change/reform and encourage individuals. the 'rot in hell' theory that a lot of people seem to possess regarding prisoners is ok to say regarding certain categories of inmate, but not the average petty criminal. Give them a chance!

 

[emilyjade]

It's hardly fair to resent someone for studying to improve their prospects.

on this though hun the only reason why they are studying is because theres only so much tv to watch and only so many weights to lift, so its either that or nothing isnt it. i have lots of things to do with my time but i still get bored x

 

[Dragonfly]

ok so what if they were given no education in prison? A young offender gets sent to prison for say, 4 years. Sits in a room all day, no stimulation, no chance of learning.. nothing! Release date comes... My gawd how would that individual even be able to attempt a reformation? How would they even stand any kind of chance to be 'normal' again. Its hard enough for an ex con to get given a chance in society regarding work. To take away education is like saying 'go to jail, throw away the key cuz u aint got a stinkin chance in hell of gettin a job when u come out'. The education system within prisons is to benefit us all, not just the prisoners. It gives them a chance to prove they have changed, a chance to give back by getting a job and paying taxes. Otherwise they would all have no option but to come back into the society and act out crime. What else would they have!! Its all about trying to change/reform and encourage individuals. the 'rot in hell' theory that a lot of people seem to possess regarding prisoners is ok to say regarding certain categories of inmate, but not the average petty criminal. Give them a chance!

I agree. We aint talking rapists and murders here poeple who have gone off track of maybe had a bad up bringing who can be given the chance to give back. Give them a chance to get on their feet.

 

[day_dreamer]

I agree. We aint talking rapists and murders here poeple who have gone off track of maybe had a bad up bringing who can be given the chance to give back. Give them a chance to get on their feet.

They have the same chance the rest of us have to get on their feet. Once they get out of prison. There are plenty of god-forsaken minimum wage jobs that would take them on in factories etc, they can work, save up and blooming well pay for their chance to improve themselves just like the rest of us have to.

on this though hun the only reason why they are studying is because theres only so much tv to watch and only so many weights to lift, so its either that or nothing isnt it.

Exactly. How many of these ex-cons would bother actually going to college or Uni to get a qualification? A few perhaps, but not many. They only do it because they've got nothing else to do...and they've got nothing else to do because they're in prison for doing something they shouldn't have done.

 

[Dragonfly]

I agree. We aint talking rapists and murders here poeple who have gone off track of maybe had a bad up bringing who can be given the chance to give back. Give them a chance to get on their feet.

They have the same chance the rest of us have to get on their feet. Once they get out of prison. There are plenty of god-forsaken minimum wage jobs that would take them on in factories etc, they can work, save up and blooming well pay for their chance to improve themselves just like the rest of us have to.

on this though hun the only reason why they are studying is because theres only so much tv to watch and only so many weights to lift, so its either that or nothing isnt it.

Exactly. How many of these ex-cons would bother actually going to college or Uni to get a qualification? A few perhaps, but not many. They only do it because they've got nothing else to do...and they've got nothing else to do because they're in prison for doing something they shouldn't have done.

bit hard to get a job with a criminal record and no qualifications and getting a qualification isnt just for a job it actually makes you feel better , not that I would know I Havant got any but would love some.

 

[PeanutBean]

Not everyone in prison comes out with oodles of qualification so those that do must've chosen to work on it in order to make things better when they come out. They will NEVER lose that stigma of having been in prison. If a £15k salary is the best they can ever hope for perhaps in their whole life (with the exception of that bald guy on daytime TV who started out on the housebreak show and is now everywhere including the One Show!) then they should be able to get the qualification to enable them to do it. Do a job, pay some taxes, live a life that is not that of a criminal. I'm sorry but I think it's crackers to not want prisoners to improve themselves. There is plenty of punishment in having your liberties removed for the duration of the sentence (as you say soft sentencing is a different argument altogether). Should one mistake mean someone should be punished for the rest of their lives?

I'm sorry if there are people working hard on low incomes with bills and mortgages but most of us are in the same situation with or without different degrees of education. It sucks to feel trapped. But there are things available to support people to do it and sometimes people have to wait until a better time in their lives if they didn't take advantage when they were young and going through the education process. There might not be bursaries available for the specific career a person might want to go into but there are plenty for other careers that we have a shortage of and that's perfectly reasonable.

 

[day_dreamer]

Not everyone in prison comes out with oodles of qualification so those that do must've chosen to work on it in order to make things better when they come out. They will NEVER lose that stigma of having been in prison. If a £15k salary is the best they can ever hope for perhaps in their whole life (with the exception of that bald guy on daytime TV who started out on the housebreak show and is now everywhere including the One Show!) then they should be able to get the qualification to enable them to do it. Do a job, pay some taxes, live a life that is not that of a criminal. I'm sorry but I think it's crackers to not want prisoners to improve themselves. There is plenty of punishment in having your liberties removed for the duration of the sentence (as you say soft sentencing is a different argument altogether). Should one mistake mean someone should be punished for the rest of their lives?

I disagree.

 

[ShanandBoc]

It's hardly fair to resent someone for studying to improve their prospects.

I don't, I resent the fact that it was handed to him on a plate. Yes he had to put some effort in to be able to pass, but it hasn't cost him a penny. I would be the first to sign up if I could do a qualification for free, but sadly I have a job and a mortgage and countless bills to pay which would not be covered by a student loan.

I have no problems with people wanting to study and improve their prospects, but I do have a problem with it being handed to people for free. Especially when they're supposed to be being punished. Same goes for people on benefits and free college courses, but that's a whole other issue. Hard-working people who struggle to make ends meet will always get the raw end of the deal in this country, imho.

I see where you are coming from, but im all for education in prison which should part of the rehabilitation process, so that criminals may be able to be released back into society with something to offer.

It may be handed to them for free (which i dont have a problem with - just the all the other luxuries they get given i dont agree with that have nothing to do with rehabilitation, just a cosy lifestyle!) It should be tough, they should have to study hard but i dont think education in that environment is a luxury, more of a necessity iykwim.

The same goes for my opinion for people on benefits. How else to you suppose they can improve themselves to put them in a position to actually get a job? Without any qualifications or experience it can be near impossible. If a course or job training (which they wouldnt be able to pay for themselves), gives them the skills they need to get off benefits for good, then that has to be a good thing right?

But thats another Interesting topic for discussion x

 

[Dragonfly]

can we please not bring poeple on benefits into this topic its far far off topic.

edit: I know you only answering ShanandBoc.

 

[ShanandBoc]

^ thats why i mentioned its a interesting topic for another discussion xo

 

[Dragonfly]

^ thats why i mentioned its a interesting topic for another discussion xo

We had the benefits discussion a lot and it gets hot. I hope we dont go that way here.

 

[ShanandBoc]

yeh i know, one of the top 5 for getting closed.

I felt i had to disagree tho lol, and especially in the prison system, free education is a must imo

 

[PeanutBean]

Not everyone in prison comes out with oodles of qualification so those that do must've chosen to work on it in order to make things better when they come out. They will NEVER lose that stigma of having been in prison. If a £15k salary is the best they can ever hope for perhaps in their whole life (with the exception of that bald guy on daytime TV who started out on the housebreak show and is now everywhere including the One Show!) then they should be able to get the qualification to enable them to do it. Do a job, pay some taxes, live a life that is not that of a criminal. I'm sorry but I think it's crackers to not want prisoners to improve themselves. There is plenty of punishment in having your liberties removed for the duration of the sentence (as you say soft sentencing is a different argument altogether). Should one mistake mean someone should be punished for the rest of their lives?

I disagree.

With what? Everything?

 

[pinkish_angel]

People have said that once a prisoner comes out of prison, he/she has the same chance of getting a job as any one of us? I totally disagree. What about on the news a few months ago. A man in his 50's who committed a small crime was sent to jail when he was 18 years old for a year or 2. The new laws about all this disclosure stuff brought up that he had this previous conviction and he was actually sacked. It didnt matter that it was over 30 years ago, or that he had worked for their company for years with no problems, or that the crime wasn't even related. The stigma that ex cons have from the employment agencies is SOOO high you would not believe until actually facing such situation yourself. Its defo not easy to come back from a prison sentence. Time done.. but never forgotten! If an education helps them even slightly, then my lord surely its better that than for their only possible future to be a life of crime, stealing off old grannies and robbing houses to get the money for a square meal. My post may seem drastic.. and maybe it is.. Im just tryin to say, it does happen. If a few luxuries make an inmate feel less helpless and give them hope for a future then surely, why not! They have to work for privilages just as we all do.. not just given computers for nothing. Once again all this is based on category of severity of the crime committed but I am talking generally about the low category crimes, which is a large part of the inmate population. Tarring everyone with the same brush is just ignorance. Some do not deserve help.. but you will find that these type tend not to bother even taking advantage of such benefits whilst inside anyway. They see no other way forward but crime. At least if they are learning and giving themselves a chance there is hope for a better society for us ALL eh? !!

 

[helen1234]

i can assure anyone in the uk there is no sky in our jails,
open jails where inmates are put to intergrate to the real world, sleep in dormatorys like a hostel and there is one tv to the whole 500 inmates, my oh didnt watch tv because he worked very long hours anyway.

and in the other jails tv had to be earnt by good behaviour if you didnt behave it got took away.

my oh says there are no luxeries in jails, unless you earn money to spend on chocolate once a week, but he had to spend money on toiletries and tobacco so didnt have any left for things like that.
he said there's not a so called gym, its a gym room with a few weights, it was all the same in the six jails he got moved around in.

he said its not hard if you get your head down get on with your sentence accept your punishment. keep yourself to yourself, but jail is a pretty scary place and there's alot of bullying and to be top dog.

the luxeries are taken way in the means of freedom and all there libertys taken away, be degraded with strip searches, your letters read, and phone calls listened into. i dont see anything luxorious about that

That's a good thing?!

They are trying to protect everyone. If people were not strip searched they would have a lot more assualts on their hands as prisoners would hide knives etc. Letters read, yep i agree, they could be discussing something like drug dealing, smuggling in drugs. Phone calls listened to, they could be discussing the same thing as letters.

I agree with it all. It should definately be a humiliating and vile experience, it should be like that so that they shouldn't end up going back.

And about the bullying? Well, that's what happens when you mix with the most vile people in society.

your absolutely right it should be vile and it is vile, and thats what prison is designed for to take all your freedom of free will away.

however my partner is not scum of the earth because he's been in jail and is not one of the vile people on earth, if you were to meet him like anyone who has, he's the nicest funniest guys you'll ever meet, he's an amazing father he has a fantastic job and would bend over backwards for any body.

so lets not try tar everyone inmate with a murderers brush (not saying you were but a few on here have)

 

[day_dreamer]

Not everyone in prison comes out with oodles of qualification so those that do must've chosen to work on it in order to make things better when they come out. They will NEVER lose that stigma of having been in prison. If a £15k salary is the best they can ever hope for perhaps in their whole life (with the exception of that bald guy on daytime TV who started out on the housebreak show and is now everywhere including the One Show!) then they should be able to get the qualification to enable them to do it. Do a job, pay some taxes, live a life that is not that of a criminal. I'm sorry but I think it's crackers to not want prisoners to improve themselves. There is plenty of punishment in having your liberties removed for the duration of the sentence (as you say soft sentencing is a different argument altogether). Should one mistake mean someone should be punished for the rest of their lives?

I disagree.

With what? Everything?

With most of it, yes.

Like I've said, I have no problems with people (criminals, anybody) wanting to improve themselves, but I don't see why it should be handed to them on a plate. It's practically saying "oh dear, you broke the law...never mind, come and stay here for a while...we'll look after you, feed you, give you a TV and a garden and a games room and a gym...you can even get some qualifications whilst you're in here...and guess what, it's all FREE!!" There is no sense to it at all. My brother in law says himself that it was practically a holiday camp inside (at the lower security prison he spent the majority of his sentence at...the higher security one he started out at he hated lol).

I do understand the need for rehabilitation in some circumstances. But for those, like my BIL, who have only committed one crime, their lives are significantly better now they're out of prison than before they went in. Before prison, he would not have ever considered going to college. It was too much like hard work. In prison he did the courses because he had nothing better to do, and because there were rewards inside for studying. I just don't think it's fair the advantages he's had/been given/now has simply through breaking the law (and killing someone in the process).

 

[pinkish_angel]

Not everyone in prison comes out with oodles of qualification so those that do must've chosen to work on it in order to make things better when they come out. They will NEVER lose that stigma of having been in prison. If a £15k salary is the best they can ever hope for perhaps in their whole life (with the exception of that bald guy on daytime TV who started out on the housebreak show and is now everywhere including the One Show!) then they should be able to get the qualification to enable them to do it. Do a job, pay some taxes, live a life that is not that of a criminal. I'm sorry but I think it's crackers to not want prisoners to improve themselves. There is plenty of punishment in having your liberties removed for the duration of the sentence (as you say soft sentencing is a different argument altogether). Should one mistake mean someone should be punished for the rest of their lives?

I disagree.

With what? Everything?

With most of it, yes.

Like I've said, I have no problems with people (criminals, anybody) wanting to improve themselves, but I don't see why it should be handed to them on a plate. It's practically saying "oh dear, you broke the law...never mind, come and stay here for a while...we'll look after you, feed you, give you a TV and a garden and a games room and a gym...you can even get some qualifications whilst you're in here...and guess what, it's all FREE!!" There is no sense to it at all. My brother in law says himself that it was practically a holiday camp inside (at the lower security prison he spent the majority of his sentence at...the higher security one he started out at he hated lol).

I do understand the need for rehabilitation in some circumstances. But for those, like my BIL, who have only committed one crime, their lives are significantly better now they're out of prison than before they went in. Before prison, he would not have ever considered going to college. It was too much like hard work. In prison he did the courses because he had nothing better to do, and because there were rewards inside for studying. I just don't think it's fair the advantages he's had/been given/now has simply through breaking the law (and killing someone in the process).

To a certain extent so it should be. Thats the reason behind rehabilitation. It provides insentives to make then not need to be like they were previous to going inside :/