My BIG FAT GYPSIE WEDDING> whos gonna watch??

[midori1999]

They didn't mention it on the programme, but there is a huge amount of domestic violence in Traveller culture and it is hugely patriacal.

 

[Heulyn]

They didn't mention it on the programme, but there is a huge amount of domestic violence in Traveller culture and it is hugely patriacal.

To be honest, in my experience I've found it the opposite way around - Yes, the women take care of the kids, and are homemakers, but have a massive influence over the things the men do, and are highly respected - even though it doesn't always show through.
Also, the domestic violence side of things isn't always as one sided as it seems to be thought - those men take a fair few beatings from their wives.

 

[midori1999]

They didn't mention it on the programme, but there is a huge amount of domestic violence in Traveller culture and it is hugely patriacal.

To be honest, in my experience I've found it the opposite way around - Yes, the women take care of the kids, and are homemakers, but have a massive influence over the things the men do, and are highly respected - even though it doesn't always show through.
Also, the domestic violence side of things isn't always as one sided as it seems to be thought - those men take a fair few beatings from their wives.

Domestic violence is domestic violence, whether women or men are the perpetrators. It is hugely damaging for children to witness and the fact they do witness and accept it is probably why the cycle continues, it is seen as a normal and accepted part of life.

Figures how up to 81% of traveller women suffer domestic violence, that is 4 out of five, much higher than the 25% incidence in the 'general' population.

Some info here:

https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/your-family/health/domestic-violence/

https://paveepoint.ie/travellers-and-issues/violence-against-women/

https://www.gypsyadvice.com/gypsynews/labels/Domestic Violence.html

 

[Heulyn]

Domestic violence is domestic violence, whether women or men are the perpetrators. It is hugely damaging for children to witness and the fact they do witness and accept it is probably why the cycle continues, it is seen as a normal and accepted part of life.

Figures how up to 81% of traveller women suffer domestic violence, that is 4 out of five, much higher than the 25% incidence in the 'general' population.

Any figures for traveller men who suffer domestic violence though?

My point is pretty much the same as yours, that the violence isn't just one sided.
Also, you have to take into account the size difference between the traveller community and the "general population" when you're comparing these figures

Anyyywaaaay - Can't wait for the next installment, those dresses just amaze me! x

 

[ebony2010]

Domestic violence is domestic violence, whether women or men are the perpetrators. It is hugely damaging for children to witness and the fact they do witness and accept it is probably why the cycle continues, it is seen as a normal and accepted part of life.

Figures how up to 81% of traveller women suffer domestic violence, that is 4 out of five, much higher than the 25% incidence in the 'general' population.

Any figures for traveller men who suffer domestic violence though?

My point is pretty much the same as yours, that the violence isn't just one sided.
Also, you have to take into account the size difference between the traveller community and the "general population" when you're comparing these figures

Anyyywaaaay - Can't wait for the next installment, those dresses just amaze me! x

Me too! They must be so hard to walk in. x

 

[midori1999]

Domestic violence is domestic violence, whether women or men are the perpetrators. It is hugely damaging for children to witness and the fact they do witness and accept it is probably why the cycle continues, it is seen as a normal and accepted part of life.

Figures how up to 81% of traveller women suffer domestic violence, that is 4 out of five, much higher than the 25% incidence in the 'general' population.

Any figures for traveller men who suffer domestic violence though?

My point is pretty much the same as yours, that the violence isn't just one sided.
Also, you have to take into account the size difference between the traveller community and the "general population" when you're comparing these figures

Anyyywaaaay - Can't wait for the next installment, those dresses just amaze me! x

A percentage is a percentage, it is irrelevant as to what size the community in discussion is, because 81% is 81%, regardless of whther it is 81% of 100 people or 1,000.

If domestic violence against men in the traveller communities was so rife, surely there would be groups set up to help them too, just like there are in general society?

Domestic violence is not the only issue in Traveller communities. There are also huge health issues due to the fact it is common to marry within the small communities and marry cousins etc. and lack of proper health care among other things. Some figures suggest up to 1/3 of travellers die before their 25th birthday and 10 of infants die before their 2nd birthday, compared to 1% of the general population.

 

[Heulyn]

A percentage is a percentage, it is irrelevant as to what size the community in discussion is, because 81% is 81%, regardless of whther it is 81% of 100 people or 1,000.

If domestic violence against men in the traveller communities was so rife, surely there would be groups set up to help them too, just like there are in general society?

Domestic violence is not the only issue in Traveller communities. There are also huge health issues due to the fact it is common to marry within the small communities and marry cousins etc. and lack of proper health care among other things. Some figures suggest up to 1/3 of travellers die before their 25th birthday and 10 of infants die before their 2nd birthday, compared to 1% of the general population.

Well then, looks like the traveller life isn't for you

What did everyone think of the cut up the front of that wedding dress last week by the way? That girl must have legs up to her armpits, as the saying goes!

 

[ebony2010]

A percentage is a percentage, it is irrelevant as to what size the community in discussion is, because 81% is 81%, regardless of whther it is 81% of 100 people or 1,000.

If domestic violence against men in the traveller communities was so rife, surely there would be groups set up to help them too, just like there are in general society?

Domestic violence is not the only issue in Traveller communities. There are also huge health issues due to the fact it is common to marry within the small communities and marry cousins etc. and lack of proper health care among other things. Some figures suggest up to 1/3 of travellers die before their 25th birthday and 10 of infants die before their 2nd birthday, compared to 1% of the general population.

Well then, looks like the traveller life isn't for you

What did everyone think of the cut up the front of that wedding dress last week by the way? That girl must have legs up to her armpits, as the saying goes!

It must have made it easier to walk in having that gap. x

 

[TattiesMum]

Domestic violence is not the only issue in Traveller communities. There are also huge health issues due to the fact it is common to marry within the small communities and marry cousins etc. and lack of proper health care among other things. Some figures suggest up to 1/3 of travellers die before their 25th birthday and 10 of infants die before their 2nd birthday, compared to 1% of the general population.

It's actually pretty uncommon for travellers to marry cousins ... blood cousins that is - the fact that they have a tendency to refer to just about everyone in their extended family (no matter how tenuous the actual 'blood' connection is - or even if it exists at all) as a 'cousin' just makes it very confusing

They do have huge health issues though - high rates of miscarriage, stillbirth and neonatal death and a really low life expectancy in general (Did you see Josie's mother on last week's programme? She told us that she married at 17 herself and that Josie is her eldest - that only makes her around 35 yet she looks way older than me at 10 years older).

It's a hard life both mentally and physically They tend to work all the hours God sends and because they avoid authority so much they rarely get the same level of healthcare as the rest of the general population.... that's not just pig-headedness on their behalf either - they really do get discriminated against in a way that would just be inconceivable if we were talking about any other racial group

 

[midori1999]

Domestic violence is not the only issue in Traveller communities. There are also huge health issues due to the fact it is common to marry within the small communities and marry cousins etc. and lack of proper health care among other things. Some figures suggest up to 1/3 of travellers die before their 25th birthday and 10 of infants die before their 2nd birthday, compared to 1% of the general population.

It's actually pretty uncommon for travellers to marry cousins ... blood cousins that is - the fact that they have a tendency to refer to just about everyone in their extended family (no matter how tenuous the actual 'blood' connection is - or even if it exists at all) as a 'cousin' just makes it very confusing

They do have huge health issues though - high rates of miscarriage, stillbirth and neonatal death and a really low life expectancy in general (Did you see Josie's mother on last week's programme? She told us that she married at 17 herself and that Josie is her eldest - that only makes her around 35 yet she looks way older than me at 10 years older).

It's a hard life both mentally and physically They tend to work all the hours God sends and because they avoid authority so much they rarely get the same level of healthcare as the rest of the general population.... that's not just pig-headedness on their behalf either - they really do get discriminated against in a way that would just be inconceivable if we were talking about any other racial group

Yes, they do suffer a lot of discrimination and I don't agree with it.

I do find it sad thought that so many people are prepared to laugh at them and their cultures (and I admit, I do find some of their cultures amusing, so am not completely innocent) but yet fail to see the bigger issues that surround their community, some of which I find extremely sad, particularly for the women.

 

[ebony2010]

Domestic violence is not the only issue in Traveller communities. There are also huge health issues due to the fact it is common to marry within the small communities and marry cousins etc. and lack of proper health care among other things. Some figures suggest up to 1/3 of travellers die before their 25th birthday and 10 of infants die before their 2nd birthday, compared to 1% of the general population.

It's actually pretty uncommon for travellers to marry cousins ... blood cousins that is - the fact that they have a tendency to refer to just about everyone in their extended family (no matter how tenuous the actual 'blood' connection is - or even if it exists at all) as a 'cousin' just makes it very confusing

They do have huge health issues though - high rates of miscarriage, stillbirth and neonatal death and a really low life expectancy in general (Did you see Josie's mother on last week's programme? She told us that she married at 17 herself and that Josie is her eldest - that only makes her around 35 yet she looks way older than me at 10 years older).

It's a hard life both mentally and physically They tend to work all the hours God sends and because they avoid authority so much they rarely get the same level of healthcare as the rest of the general population.... that's not just pig-headedness on their behalf either - they really do get discriminated against in a way that would just be inconceivable if we were talking about any other racial group

Yes, they do suffer a lot of discrimination and I don't agree with it.

I do find it sad thought that so many people are prepared to laugh at them and their cultures (and I admit, I do find some of their cultures amusing, so am not completely innocent) but yet fail to see the bigger issues that surround their community, some of which I find extremely sad, particularly for the women.

I hope you don't mind me asking but you seem to feel so strongly about it... have you ever been part of their communities? x

 

[Heulyn]

I hope you don't mind me asking but you seem to feel so strongly about it... have you ever been part of their communities? x

Is that aimed at everyone on the thread, or just Midori and TattiesMum? x

 

[smokey]

Domestic violence is not the only issue in Traveller communities. There are also huge health issues due to the fact it is common to marry within the small communities and marry cousins etc. and lack of proper health care among other things. Some figures suggest up to 1/3 of travellers die before their 25th birthday and 10 of infants die before their 2nd birthday, compared to 1% of the general population.

It's actually pretty uncommon for travellers to marry cousins ... blood cousins that is - the fact that they have a tendency to refer to just about everyone in their extended family (no matter how tenuous the actual 'blood' connection is - or even if it exists at all) as a 'cousin' just makes it very confusing

They do have huge health issues though - high rates of miscarriage, stillbirth and neonatal death and a really low life expectancy in general (Did you see Josie's mother on last week's programme? She told us that she married at 17 herself and that Josie is her eldest - that only makes her around 35 yet she looks way older than me at 10 years older).

It's a hard life both mentally and physically They tend to work all the hours God sends and because they avoid authority so much they rarely get the same level of healthcare as the rest of the general population.... that's not just pig-headedness on their behalf either - they really do get discriminated against in a way that would just be inconceivable if we were talking about any other racial group

Your right, its not very common at all for cousins to marry especialy not first cousins.
I come from water gypsies rather then romany ones but the principle is still the same, great care was taken to make sure marrying couples where not too closely related.
It was even quite common for a widow to then marry the brother of her late husband (or vise versa) to try to contain a blood line within the family rather then create problems down the line by having two bloodlines used up by the same family (ie why incorperate a bloodline into your own by marrying someone new when that blood could be used to make a whole new fresh line with someone else)
And like you say everyone is known as cousins.
Terms like mother, nan and aunty are respected titles so most older generations or ones with high regard within a comunnity are known by these titles to pretty much everyone.
Plus the cummuties band together so if for any reason a mother can not take care of her child one of the other mothers will step in and raise that child so most of the kids within the community have had their upbringing helped by more then one woman so they all know each other as cousins or brother and sister even if they arnt related, it basicly is one big family but most marriages are from another community My friends parents(who was romany travlers) originaly met in a reabilitation hospital and married without telling anyone and then found out aftwards they where actualy cousins and where pretty much cast out by the family and community because they insisted on staying together and having children and their family has had nothing to do with them since.

 

[TattiesMum]

I hope you don't mind me asking but you seem to feel so strongly about it... have you ever been part of their communities? x

My sister 'married in' .... met a traveller boy when she was 16, married him at 20 and lived in a trailer in his parents' back garden until her eldest was about 1, when they got a council flat, so I've been around travellers in a way most Gorgas haven't for about 21 years

In the early days me and my other siblings (who along with our youngest sister were raised in a very middle class family) would just sit at family occasions like weddings and christenings in open mouthed astonishment - the whole culture was such a shock to us!! I've kind of got used to it over the years and, although it's not the way I would choose to live (or want my daughters to either) I just accept it these days.

Before my own kids were grown and flown (lol) they used to spend about half of each of their holidays with their Aunt and Uncle and have grown up with the extended family calling them cousins and treating them as their own - in our experience that has meant like pieces of fine china .... and their 'cousins' still keep in regular touch even now.

None of them from my BIL down would allow anyone to 'grab' their female relatives - or to inflict any domestic violence on them ... that would involve a nasty scenario of baseball bats on the offender, but then I've not seen the 'darker' side so much - for a start, like most domestic violence, anything like that would presumably be hidden ... but it's true to say that my BIL would no more pick up a dishcloth or teatowel than he would lick the dog - my sister does all the housework and the child rearing ..... Having said that my BIL works all the hours God sends to provide for them - an 18 hour day is nothing unusual and, at 38, he looks like a hunched old man

Neither of his parents lived until their 50s and I doubt he or his brother will either

The discrimination they face is astounding though - and it's largely the reason why health is such an issue There can't be another racial group in the UK which still faces such open hostility ..... when Tattie was expecting Kaylum and we did the hospital tour there was a young traveller lass in the group. She was on her own as her husband was working and her mother was looking after her own brood (plus they are just expected to get on with it ) and she felt faint about halfway round. The midwife in charge of the tour just looked down her nose at her, planted her in a chair and left her there while she carried on No concern, nothing

I was the one who stayed with her, got her a glass of water, opened the window for her and stayed with her until she felt better and we could catch up with the rest of them as they were leaving (Tattie's boyfriend was with her as well as me, so I didn't leave her on her own) .... everyone else just sniffed about 'pikeys' and left her to it with that as an example it's no wonder that they steer clear of authority - and therefore decent health care

My sister does work outside the home - her choice and my BIL wouldn't dream of stopping her (what she wants she gets - as long as it doesn't involve him doing housework lol) .... she is traveller liason/classroom assistant at a local school with a high proportion of traveller children

 

[ebony2010]

I hope you don't mind me asking but you seem to feel so strongly about it... have you ever been part of their communities? x

Is that aimed at everyone on the thread, or just Midori and TattiesMum? x

It was aimed at Midori because she has a very strong opinion on how awful she sees a gypsy marriage etc. x

 

[ebony2010]

I hope you don't mind me asking but you seem to feel so strongly about it... have you ever been part of their communities? x

My sister 'married in' .... met a traveller boy when she was 16, married him at 20 and lived in a trailer in his parents' back garden until her eldest was about 1, when they got a council flat, so I've been around travellers in a way most Gorgas haven't for about 21 years

In the early days me and my other siblings (who along with our youngest sister were raised in a very middle class family) would just sit at family occasions like weddings and christenings in open mouthed astonishment - the whole culture was such a shock to us!! I've kind of got used to it over the years and, although it's not the way I would choose to live (or want my daughters to either) I just accept it these days.

Before my own kids were grown and flown (lol) they used to spend about half of each of their holidays with their Aunt and Uncle and have grown up with the extended family calling them cousins and treating them as their own - in our experience that has meant like pieces of fine china .... and their 'cousins' still keep in regular touch even now.

None of them from my BIL down would allow anyone to 'grab' their female relatives - or to inflict any domestic violence on them ... that would involve a nasty scenario of baseball bats on the offender, but then I've not seen the 'darker' side so much - for a start, like most domestic violence, anything like that would presumably be hidden ... but it's true to say that my BIL would no more pick up a dishcloth or teatowel than he would lick the dog - my sister does all the housework and the child rearing ..... Having said that my BIL works all the hours God sends to provide for them - an 18 hour day is nothing unusual and, at 38, he looks like a hunched old man

Neither of his parents lived until their 50s and I doubt he or his brother will either

The discrimination they face is astounding though - and it's largely the reason why health is such an issue There can't be another racial group in the UK which still faces such open hostility ..... when Tattie was expecting Kaylum and we did the hospital tour there was a young traveller lass in the group. She was on her own as her husband was working and her mother was looking after her own brood (plus they are just expected to get on with it ) and she felt faint about halfway round. The midwife in charge of the tour just looked down her nose at her, planted her in a chair and left her there while she carried on No concern, nothing

I was the one who stayed with her, got her a glass of water, opened the window for her and stayed with her until she felt better and we could catch up with the rest of them as they were leaving (Tattie's boyfriend was with her as well as me, so I didn't leave her on her own) .... everyone else just sniffed about 'pikeys' and left her to it with that as an example it's no wonder that they steer clear of authority - and therefore decent health care

My sister does work outside the home - her choice and my BIL wouldn't dream of stopping her (what she wants she gets - as long as it doesn't involve him doing housework lol) .... she is traveller liason/classroom assistant at a local school with a high proportion of traveller children

Wow... thats for that. It is sad that they would be discriminated against and it is like rasism in a way.

 

[midori1999]

I hope you don't mind me asking but you seem to feel so strongly about it... have you ever been part of their communities? x

Is that aimed at everyone on the thread, or just Midori and TattiesMum? x

It was aimed at Midori because she has a very strong opinion on how awful she sees a gypsy marriage etc. x

I've had a lot of traveller clients through my work and also have a professional interest in domestic violence, which is why I know a bit about it/have an interest in it.

I don't think Traveller marriages are 'awful' at all, I think domestic violence is awful and I whilst I do think there are some things about their culture to be admired and respected, I find it very sad that in this day and age little girls are brought up to think all they are good for is to be a housewife and mother and be found attractive to men. I also find it sad that women are faced with sometimes unecessary loss of children.

 

[TattiesMum]

It looks like next weeks episode is going to cover some of the areas that Midori has mentioned - including the high levels of domestic violence

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/big-fat-gypsy-weddings/episode-guide/series-2/episode-3

 

[summer rain]

I've been watching the show with some interest as we recently found out some of my mum's ancestry is from Romany stock (thats for definite; there are a few other ancestors we also strongly suspect of being so). There are a lot of Irish travellers around here also as one of their large authorised sites is close by, they do seem to live quite precariously; their kids are always in A+E due to severe illness or accidents. Also you get a lot of Romany gypsies from Eastern Europe but some have been here for many years; there were a couple with a baby in SCBU at the same time as my eldest like that. Still due to the very traditional way in which they dress they do get mistaken for the minority of recently arrived Roma that traffic people and pickpocket.

 

[v2007]

I have been watching but the next episode really does seem to be steering towards the violence within the travellers community.

V xx