Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[Shadowy Lady]

Gaia, truthfully at that age I didn't see a huge correlation between nights and naps either Now there's a huge correlation.

I don't think I've shared this link with you yet, but it's a good one: Nap/wake time recommendations by age and all that good stuff:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11GHo4keUb2TVJUlSL1kD6HQcEgaNFBmzoQoOzcpcyas/edit?hl=en&authkey=CPXE1bsO&pli=1#

I enjoyed reading this link Noelle evethough it was meant for Gaia I'm just trying to look at last night as a one off. My DH is so relaxed about this, he's like "well, babies can't sleep like adults." He doesn't understand my frustration at all. Mind you he's also much better rested.

Sofia has napped poorly today which is odd for her. She napped for an hour around 10:30 am and then 30 mins around 2 pm. Who knows what tonight will bring

 

[gaiagirl]

Yes I've seen it, but was just thinking id like to see it again.

Shadowy I with I could just adopt your hubby's attitude, because honestly sometimes it feels like I expel way too much energy on analyzing and agonizing over his sleep habits. But at the same time, it's my nature to look for a fix!

It's annoying to me though, that the moms I know with the 'best' sleepers are the ones who haven't read a thing and don't know any of those recommendations!

Sigh...my baby is sooo amazing and I wouldn't trade him for anyone else but he is just not one of those babies that adopts adult sleep habits quickly! Lol

 

[polaris]

Gaiagirl, I think that is because if your baby is a naturally good sleeper you are not going to bother reading books about baby sleep patterns LOL. My SIL has twin girls who slept through the night for 12 hours from 12 weeks without her having to do anything in particular to encourage it. She's no idea how lucky she is!

 

[Iren_iren]

I am starting to read this thread from the beginning as LO is sleeping in my arms..
But few questions meanwhile...I just don't know where to start
Here is our sleeping routine:
4 naps a day, first and last in my arms, 2 in between in his pram. It's not fun when the weather is bad, but I a more or less ok with that. The problem is when we are at home.
He just won't get it, that he needs to sleep in his bed. I tried several times putting him there drowsy but awake and he ends up screaming, but its bit too early for CIO, so not keen to leave him there just cry. As soon as I pick him up, he nods off in my arms.
I've tried put down pick up method, but just for a day. He just gets more frustrated and inconsolable.
I know I have been rocking him to sleep all his life, so I do t expect to change overnight, just don't know how to make it gradual process.

Bed time: bath, bottle/nursing (I combifeed) and he is asleep in my arms then I transfer him to his cot (next to our bed). Past few weeks he go e from waking 1-2 for a feed to waking 3-5 times screaming and won't stop until I feed him or sometimes just putting back his dummy works. He sleeps from around 8.30pm to 5.30-6am. Not keen for hi sleeping in our bed, so just take him after he wakes up
Around 9 hours sleep during the night and 3 during the day, so I do th think he is having enough...

Sorry that its bit too long, but I don't know where to start, should I deal with daytime naps first or sort his night time. How on earth I make him go to bed awake and fell asleep and not screaming
I really want to do so etching about it now as i am going back to work when he will be 8 month and I can't see things improving without me doing so etching about it and I wo t be able to function if it will carry on like this
Thanks

Hi! Welcome to our little group. I'd love to try and give you some recommendations - when does he wake for the day and how long are his naps? He's a bit young for sleep training, but I think you can first tweak your schedule and then work on some positive sleep associations to get him a bit more interested in the crib. I never thought my daughter would sleep in her crib. She loved her Rock n Play Sleeper and being in our room for quite some time. Now she's 10 months and sleeps happily in her crib all night!

Thanks Noelle610!
6am he is up for the day, but that varies from 5.15 to 6.30 (on a rare good day if he naps in a pram that can be 1,5 (40min, then wakes up, look around and fells asleep again) and in my arms from 30 min to 2 hours.
Usually first nap 8-9am
Second 10.30-12 or 11 to 1 (with some awake time in between)
3rd around 3pm for about 30 min
Last 5pm to 6 or past few days till 6.30pm
Would really love to hear your suggestions. It's great that you've manged to make your girl sleep in her crib and I did not realise how hard it could be

Let me start by saying that 4 and 5 months is just a hard time for sleep in general. I know a sleep consultant who has helped me immensely and she calls months 4 and 5 "one big wonder week" (basically a huge growth spurt that can really affect sleep). So a lot of what you're going through is normal.

During the day I'd aim to have LO down after 90 minutes of awake time. You may want to try an earlier morning nap. That will minimize the possibility of him getting overtired and he will fight sleep less.

In terms of the crib, try creating a positive experience for LO during the day. Put him in there with some of his favorite toys and have some fun with him. Once he starts to enjoy the crib, you can trying putting him down there for naps first. You may sit with him at first and then gradually move your chair toward the door so that he gets used to sleeping independently.

Can he roll? If so, you may want to try putting him down on his tummy to sleep at night (fine if he is mobile). My daughter slept much better that way. In addition to your bedtime routine, I'd play loud white noise (either a white noise machine or app on your phone), make sure the room is dark (blackout blinds work great) and perhaps introduce a lovey to him.

He will sleep independently eventually, I promise! Also, 2 or 3 night feeds at this age is totally within the range of normal.

Thanks Noelle! I do feel that we are going through one big wonder week. Some days are good, but then it all goes downhill
Just after posting here I noticed he was rubbing his eyes, so put in his cot and held my arm next to his cheek and he fell asleep, then I put my top next to him, so smells mummy and he slept for 40min all by himself in his bed! That never ever happened before!
I'll try to stick with 90 min rule, is 30-40 min nap ok? Or if he sleeps for 2 hours which can be if we outside, the next nap after 90 min anyway?
He has music mobile in his cot for mornings, but any music overstimulates him. We'll play more in his cot tomorrow and see how that goes. Also make the room darker, but OH is against white noise, so that's out.
Thanks again for the suggestions, i' ll be back here in a few days once try it out

Oh how perfect! Definitely put something that smells of you in the crib. You can even sprinkle it with a few drops of breast milk. I used to sleep with my DD's lovey for a few nights (she has two, so I could interchange them).

I would stick with the 90 minute rule even if the nap is long. 30-40 minute naps are fine too and actually very common at this age! Around 6 months and/or when LO drops to 2 naps, they will likely lengthen on their own.

Why is your OH against white noise, just out of curiosity? That's not one I've heard before, though my DH has some odd ideas too

Oh, and my LO also found the mobile stimulating

I'll take his bunny in bed with me today
We have used white noise a lot when Lucas was newborn, but OH for some reason thinks that this noise can be damaging to his brains and especially when played on mobile phone. But I still secretly use it when on my own
Just looked at the doc that you have posted for someone else and it confirms that LO is not getting enough sleep, only 9 hours top during the night instead of 11...earliest we could put him to bed is 8pm, but he always wakes up at 6am, lets see if blackouts will help here to stretch that till 7am which was perfect
( when Lucas was newborn, he would sleep till 8am and I was complaining that this is early..if only I knew what will come

 

[pompeyvix]

Her night sleep is really good now. She is put down awake and takes herself to sleep. Usually one dream feed around midnight and she then sleeps through til 10 (it's not always been like this, this is a recent thing!)

Yes she is a late riser, she wakes between 9.30 and 10.30 each day....perhaps you are right, sleeping this late could be classed as her first nap of the day. I never thought of it like that before but sounds about right?
I don't want to change this though, as it means I can wake naturally and then get all my morning jobs done by the time she wakes. I just wish her subsequent naps could be more than 30 mins a pop!

What time does she go to bed? If it's 8pm or earlier, she's definitely consolidating night sleep and her first nap. Some babies tend to do this! You can either leave it, or you can wake her no later than 7am to preserve that first nap. You may have more success doing that as the schedule will be a bit more age appropriate.

I hear you on having the alone time though!

She's in bed by 7.45pm but doesn't always fall straight to sleep. She is usually asleep between 8 and 8.30pm.

I definitely won't be up and waking her at 7...the very thought! I know her sleep pattens will always be changing so for now I am going to leave her to wake up late.

Based on that theory then, I guess she won't need any more than 1 or 2 naps during the day? Does one or two 30 min daytime nap sound about right then?

 

[gaiagirl]

You're right Polaris! And I have a few friends like that, their Facebook statuses about it drive me nuts!

 

[bananaz]

Pretty huge progress here on day 2 of no walking and no feeding to sleep. Yesterday Mia properly self settled for a nap, we were out and I put her down in a pack n play at my dad's house and checked on her 10 minutes later and she was asleep, amazing!

Last night she was asleep within 3 minutes of being in her cot at 7pm. Then woke at 10pm, 1am and 3am but no motn party and no feeding or changing, just patting back to sleep.

I really enjoyed those troublesome tots articles, Noelle. They have been a big help to us, realising that all the walking to sleep is doing more harm than good. I'm just hoping that we continue to have success with this

Holy cow, that's amazing! Go Mia!!

 

[MiniKiwi]

Those of you with older, self settling babies - do they crawl, stand or sit in their cots before they fall asleep? Or are they tired enough that they just lie there until they sleep?

 

[bananaz]

Those of you with older, self settling babies - do they crawl, stand or sit in their cots before they fall asleep? Or are they tired enough that they just lie there until they sleep?

Usually Elsie will roam her crib for a few minutes before lying down, and sometimes she'll stand at one end dangling her toys over the side.

 

[MiniKiwi]

Aww dangling her toys, Elsie looks and sounds like such a character

We failed at self settling today, I definitely let her try but she was just yelling and screaming and bouncing on the side of her cot in the end. So I just patted and shhhed her and she went to sleep quickly. Is that better than walking or feeding to sleep though? Is it teaching her to self settle? I mean, I'm still right there and helping her - what is the difference?

 

[bananaz]

Aww dangling her toys, Elsie looks and sounds like such a character

We failed at self settling today, I definitely let her try but she was just yelling and screaming and bouncing on the side of her cot in the end. So I just patted and shhhed her and she went to sleep quickly. Is that better than walking or feeding to sleep though? Is it teaching her to self settle? I mean, I'm still right there and helping her - what is the difference?

Yeah, she's a funny one for sure!

I think shush-patting to sleep is a still a big step forward for Mia for a couple of reasons: 1) she's going to sleep in her crib, not in your arms, and 2) it's a lot easier to quickly wean off of shush-patting than it is other sleep associations because the intervention is already relatively minimal to begin with.

I would continue giving her time to see if she'll go to sleep on her own first because she's already shown she can do it (which is so so awesome!) but if it seems like she's getting wound up then I don't think a little shush-patting is a terrible thing, just try to keep it to a minimum and stop before she actually falls asleep when possible.

 

[Larkspur]

Nice work, MiniKiwi! Mia is doing great!

I forgot to answer you earlier about the daylight savings change. It's next Sunday night, Easter Sunday. I was a bit worried about the change but I am going to do something a bit weird, I'm delaying the change till mid-morning instead of 2am on the Monday, and am just going to 'force' an extra hour of nap on LO however I can, and then change the time and proceed as normal.

Not too much to report here, though Rafe just went down for the fourth night running coming off nursing drowsy but awake, drifting off while held (no rocking) and going into his cot borderline asleep but not quite asleep... He'll shift and flicker his eyes as I put him in, but then relax and pass out. Making our way slowly towards putting down drowsy but awake, and eventually tired but awake.

 

[MiniKiwi]

Thanks bananaz, that makes heaps of sense. I just put Mia down for the night and it took 2 minutes max, this is just so awesome. I wouldn't dread nap and night times if they continued to be like this

Ty Larkspur, I think you might be onto something with the time change there, I'm going to do the same thing! Good to hear you guys are still making progress

 

[Boo44]

We've had another couple of 6am starts here. It seems so random. But very typical that he does it on a weekend! Yesterday was 'perfect' as in he had 1 hour morning nap and 45 mins pm. I have cut these down slightly as I noticed he slept later when he mapped slightly less. But not any more I guess!

I looked at that chart you posted Noelle and he is an 11hr a night sleeper for sure. So does that mean he should have 3hrs of napping and I should actually let him have 90 mins morning and afternoon?! Argh just when you think it's all figured out...!

I think he's cold on a morning but he has long sleeved vest, fleecey sleep suit, 2.5 tog bag and a blanket! The bloody weather just needs to improve already as I don't think I can actually dress him in any more!!

Our clocks go forward next wk so we'll see how that messes things up....!



Yay mini I am soooo happy for you! Go girl!

 

[Larkspur]

I think he's cold on a morning but he has long sleeved vest, fleecey sleep suit, 2.5 tog bag and a blanket!

Jeepers woman, where do you live... Antarctica?!?

 

[AngelUK]

Boo that seems a little warm to me actually? Do you have a room thermometer? Unless it gets very cold at night, such as maybe 16C I would think that maybe he is too warm. My boys sleep in a room that is 20C maybe 19C at the lowest and they sleep in their short sleeved undies, long sleeved romper or babygro and then a 2.5 tog sleeping bag and that is it. But I suppose you would have noticed if he was sweaty when you got him up.

Bananaz I just wanted to say that I love your avvie. She is such an adorable little girl!

 

[izzlesnizzle]

We've had another couple of 6am starts here. It seems so random. But very typical that he does it on a weekend! Yesterday was 'perfect' as in he had 1 hour morning nap and 45 mins pm. I have cut these down slightly as I noticed he slept later when he mapped slightly less. But not any more I guess!

I looked at that chart you posted Noelle and he is an 11hr a night sleeper for sure. So does that mean he should have 3hrs of napping and I should actually let him have 90 mins morning and afternoon?! Argh just when you think it's all figured out...!

I think he's cold on a morning but he has long sleeved vest, fleecey sleep suit, 2.5 tog bag and a blanket! The bloody weather just needs to improve already as I don't think I can actually dress him in any more!!

Our clocks go forward next wk so we'll see how that messes things up....!



Yay mini I am soooo happy for you! Go girl!

Oh the clocks! I don't even want to think about it! But surely it cant be any worse than when the clocks went back.

Im finding LO's room is freezing in the morning. Her face and hands are like ice. It says 16 degrees in there. OH has re set the heating to come on for a couple of hours in the night but its still so cold in there. She has a long sleeved vest, sleep suit and 2.5 tog gro bag. I cant put gloves on her hands coz she likes to suck her fingers to settle herself.

She was up at 5.08am this morning. She had bad diarrohea and needed a full strip down. She was not happy! Put her back in her cot with the white noise but she was having none of it so ended up in bed with us again but did go back to sleep until 7.15am.

These teething nappies are horrific. I think shes cutting her bottom tooth and shes had a few pretty awful nappies lately but this one was just nasty and had exploded all over her.

Anyone know if having a red nose is a teething symptom too? Her nose is often red aswell as her cheeks? And have your babies been having awful nappies when cutting their teeth too?

 

[Boo44]

Lol! No north England haha!!

Since November his normal is exactly what you described angel. But it's been really cold here recently and I've added the blanket. Just a thin one. His room temp drops to 17 overnight no matter how late we have the heating on, and I don't really want it to actually be on overnight as it's loud and clunky

On a morning at the mo his room feels cold when I go in to get him, an his hands are icey. His torso is a nice temp though so I know hands aren't that important. And he's definitely not sweaty....

 

[Boo44]

Izzlesnizzle - jack has his bottom two teeth but his top two are perilously close to breaking through and he's been really chewy and grumpy with them. He's not having diarrhoea but I swear some days recently he does like 6 poops! Crazy mental! I'm putting it down to teeth.... Not surprisingly he has a bit of nappy rash too xx

 

[izzlesnizzle]

Just looking at that sleep chart Noelle posted. Do you all wait 15 mins before you go to them in the night? 15 mins would seem like hours in the quiet, dark house in the middle of the night. I don't usually run in at the slightest sound. I probably wait a little while but off the top of my head (im not clock watching in the night) I probably wait 5 mins before going but she always seems to get louder and doesn't settle.

Should we be waiting 15 mins before going? Seems such a long time and im pretty sure she would be in a right old state by then and probably got herself in such a pickle that she would be wide awake!