Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[Noelle610]

Polaris, let the cat CIO - she's old enough

Twister, a sleep coach I know said 5am is the hardest time for babies and parents with sleep! Here's a good link....

https://www.sleeplady.com/baby-sleep/rise-shine-the-early-waking-toddler/

 

[bananaz]

seaweed - I'm glad you're taking a break. Sometimes when you're met with this much resistance it means they're not ready, or you're not ready, or both. Nothing wrong with taking a breather and trying again later!

polaris - I agree with Noelle, time to let the kitty CIO Seriously though, I have had this issue with cats before, the only solution is to ignore them. The moment you respond and give them any kind of attention the problem becomes way bigger.

Twister - I wish I knew how to help with the 5am wakings We are still dealing with them here. Noelle's link has a lot of great suggestions though, hopefully you'll find it helpful.


So the good news is that LO has continued waking around 5am the past few days. The bad news is that she's waking at 5am. This means that most nights she's only getting around 9.5 hours of sleep.

It's been over a month of this (with a few 6am wakings tossed in to give me false hope) and I'm feeling pretty despondent about fixing it at this point. I've rearranged her nap schedule so that she's only awake for 2-4 hours before bed, but that didn't do anything. Running in there and trying to soothe her doesn't help; sometimes she'll lie still and try to go back to sleep while I pat her but it never works and I just get frustrated standing there for an hour. If I don't go in she tries to go to sleep on her own after a few minutes but by 5:30 she is crying again.

I think I may try putting her to bed a full 30 minutes earlier and see if that helps. She's going to be at daycare today for a half day which means she's probably going to be missing her normal morning naptime so who knows how that's going to screw things up...

 

[stephie_corin]

Bananaz, I have a chronic early waker. We have been up between 5-530 for months now. But the last two mornings I have held him and rocked him and he took another 45 mins of sleep, meaning we were up at 6am. It felt like a massive sleep in! What time do you put your LO to bed? I put Cully down at 6ish each night so that he gets 11-12 hours before his natural wakeup. It's good as it means that we get a few hours of adult time and can still head to bed at 9ish and not feel too tired at the early morning wake ups!

Polaris, my cats know not to make a noise until they get a pat from me! I've chased them out of the room so many times when they meow at the wrong time. They sleep in the room with us, as well as with our baby! Lucky we have a big bedroom.

We ended up just going with the three naps and the last two nights I've had a stretch of just over 2 hours. It's so good to see some improvements! We did three naps again today and I am hoping for another good(ish) night!

I hope everyone has a good night tonight!!

 

[NotNic]

That's a reassuring read Noelle. I felt mean putting him back to sleep when he woke at 5am but it appears to be working and the expert agrees! Today I went straight in, gave him the dummy and he went back to sleep. I woke to hear him playing at 6ish and he called out for me at 6.15. This is a proper wake up time for me. Hoping we can keep it up x

 

[bananaz]

Bananaz, I have a chronic early waker. We have been up between 5-530 for months now. But the last two mornings I have held him and rocked him and he took another 45 mins of sleep, meaning we were up at 6am. It felt like a massive sleep in! What time do you put your LO to bed? I put Cully down at 6ish each night so that he gets 11-12 hours before his natural wakeup. It's good as it means that we get a few hours of adult time and can still head to bed at 9ish and not feel too tired at the early morning wake ups!

Yay for extra sleep! Right now she's going to bed at 7:30pm which I'm thinking must be too late. Honestly I prefer the slightly later bedtime because it means there's less of a rush in the evenings, but I think you're right that it needs to be earlier. Going to try 7pm tonight and see how that goes.

Hope you and yur LO have a good night

 

[mellyboo]

Well 2 time's last night so seems this week were down to 1-2 wakings for me Long this may continue..

I'm scared to say anything i may jinx myself.. i'm almost waiting for the crap nights again.. sad isn't it i've just had so many of them.

 

[mellyboo]

Melly that's great! Maybe you're another in proof of the 7 month improvement thing!

Seaweed xxxxx hugs, that's really hard. I think a break sounds good, I'm sure A will be fine with that and it won't all be for nothing, sounds like he HAS made progress!

Polaris sending love and hugs to your lo, that sounds rough but improving! Just think, if its pox she will spare herself the pain later on and now have awesome lifelong immunity!

Well we had another bedtime battle. I think what's happening is he's taking a light nap in my arms and waking falsely refreshed upon transfer. But all attempts to shhhhhh/pat are a dismal failure. I wish I could load the video of him last night. He had a wonderful time slamming his legs down and giggling. He just really cannot calm himself for sleep without lots of help.

After I finally got him to sleep in my bed at 9 he actually had a great night and woke only 2/3 times until 8! So still got all the sleep he needs.

Funny thing, I looked back at when those weeks were that we had good evenings and guess what? Weeks 20-23 in between wonder weeks! Lol

I sure hope i am.... and everyone told me 3 months PFFT!

oh another note, I'm super happy I didnt visit baby club when i was pregnant i would of been scared lol

 

[Noelle610]

Yay Melly!

 

[seaweed eater]

I'm sorry about all the early wakings Bananaz, I think putting down earlier sounds good. That seems to work for us sometimes, though certainly not always. But 9.5 hours does seem to be on the low end. Is LO all right during the day (in terms of her mood or energy level)?

Awesome update, Melly!

Gaia, to go back to your fighting bedtime issue, I actually think you might be onto something with him taking a nap in your arms and then being falsely refreshed when you transfer him. I've actually found I have an easier time putting Munchkin down if I do it as soon as he unlatches rather than waiting even a few seconds. I tried this based on a suggestion from Bananaz, who said she unlatches her LO when her sucking slows down, which didn't work for us, but might be the sweet spot for you. Anyway, it might be worth experimenting with putting him down sooner.

Last night was perfectly fine, two wakings at the normal 1:30 and 4:30 and then up just before 6 This morning we had an early but long first nap (8-9), which I figured would be enough until afternoon...but I was feeding him just now (11ish) and he could not keep his eyes open. Even when I took him off and sat him up, he would just lean onto me and fall back asleep. I can only remember once when I've ever seen him so sleepy. So I figured I should let him nap. I put him down awake and he was asleep in less than a second. Hopefully it won't mess things up too badly. I'm hoping he'll still take a third nap at daycare, even if it's short, but if not I guess he'll get his 10 minutes in the car on the way home.

 

[bananaz]

I'm sorry about all the early wakings Bananaz, I think putting down earlier sounds good. That seems to work for us sometimes, though certainly not always. But 9.5 hours does seem to be on the low end. Is LO all right during the day (in terms of her mood or energy level)?

It's hard to say because she's a pretty grumpy kid a lot of the time even when she's well-rested, but I do remember that she was more content the mornings when she slept past 6 so I think she would really benefit from more nighttime sleep.

I'm glad you had a good night! When my LO has weird periods of extra daytime sleepiness like that it's usually a growth spurt and doesn't have any effect on bedtime, so hopefully that's the case with your guy.

It's so hot here I had to put LO down for a nap without her Zipadeezip for the first time. She cried for a minute but now she's standing in the middle of her crib with a stuffed animal in each hand dancing and yelling Not a good sign.

 

[polaris]

Bananaz, when Thomas went through his lengthy early waking phase I found that I had to get him into bed by 6.30. I honestly hated it because I didn't get home from work until about 5.15 so I literally had an hour with him in the evenings. But it just didn't work well putting him to bed later - with Thomas it was always very easy to tell when he wasn't getting enough sleep because he would turn into a monster (still does actually). He still woke at 5.30 with the earlier bedtime but at least he would wake up happy rather than waking up grumpy and tired!

I was just thinking that with Clara it is much harder to tell whether she's getting enough sleep because she doesn't get cranky when she's tired. She's very easy going and the opposite of high needs during the day. Thomas was a much harder baby in every other way but in regard to sleep it was actually almost easier with Thomas because at least I knew where I stood!

 

[gaiagirl]

Thanks Seaweed! I've tried all different approaches and honestly it seems like he goes through phases where he's ok being transferred earlier and phases where he will freak out upon transfer no matter what I do. Seriously today as he fell asleep in my arms he kept opening his eyes to check where he was and then closing them again...lol. I don't know, at some point I'm sure I will have to do some shhhh/patting ad I know there will be a few tears but when I try now he just wakes up fully and there's no hope of sleep so I assume he isn't ready.

They do change quickly though so I'll try again in awhile...

Still holding out hope that things could look up when the wonder week is over next week...am I setting myself up for discouragement when things don't change? Sure! But oh well..

 

[Radkat]

So I'm hoping all of you ladies can help me out. I'm trying to decide what the next step is to getting my LO's sleep on track...

She's 7mo old and sleeps in a cosleeper next to our bed. She's breastfed with one solids meal a day, usually in the evening. Nursing is last thing we do before I put her down, but she is not completely asleep (e.g. she usually fusses a bit once I lay her down). We have bedtime routine of change into pjs, book, nurse and to sleep. I put her down around 7:15pm. I usually don't leave the room for about 5 minutes after she has quieted down bc our bedroom door is really loud and wakes her up if I've just put her down. She usually sleeps until midnight or 1am with occassional wakeups around 10ish, that can typically be soothed with shush and pat in 5-10minutes. After 1am sometimes she's usually up every 45minutes to an hour, but sometimes she'll sleep for longer. But since she's learned to stand up in the cosleeper, she usually stands when she wakes up which seems to extend the amount of time she is awake each time. So I lay her back down and shush and pat. I do one feeding between 1-2am and then another one later, usually between 4-5am. She usually starts waking up more around 5:30 or so, so I bring her into bed with us and she usually sleeps until 7 when I have to get up.

Naps are not great. Usually 3x30 minutes, sometimes a longer one thrown in there.

I'm not ready for CC yet, but I would appreciate any thoughts on next steps to help her out. Thanks for your help.

 

[seaweed eater]

Radkat, do you think she has some association with your presence in a way that is keeping her awake? Since you mentioned that you stay in the room after she falls asleep, and it sounds like she doesn't have a nursing association per se since shh/pat works well for her. What do you think would happen if you left the room before she fell asleep? Maybe you could leave the door open and then come back and close it once she's asleep so as not to wake her. Also the fact that you bring her into bed in the early morning...I know it's hard not to respond to their increased wakefulness at that hour with more soothing but I wonder if it's ending up as intermittent reinforcement for her wakings.

Gaia, I think when you are WIO you should absolutely hold out hope in any way you can persuade yourself to!

Bananaz, I'm sorry but I had to smile at the image of your girl dancing and yelling with her stuffed animals. How did the rest of that nap go?

 

[Radkat]

Seaweed - I think I'm going to move towards leaving the room when she's still awake. I just spent over an hour trying to get her down, which is unusual for her. She kept looking up for me and standing up. I know she's going to stand up and cry when I leave. Since I'm not ready for CC, what do I do then?

I'll try to avoid bringing her into bed in the morning, but I'm sure that will lead to an earlier wake up time which is tough.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[seaweed eater]

Hmm, I can think of two ways you could approach that. One is to go all the way outside and then come back in and comfort her, and repeat, until she stays asleep when you leave. The other is gradual withdrawal, where you would put a chair right next to her where you can reach her, then after a few nights move your chair toward the door, and eventually out into the hall, and then attempt leaving the room completely. I'm guessing the first way would involve more crying, since she'd be crying as you leave and come back however many times that would take. But both of them seem analogous with other techniques that are used to break associations (the first is more like PUPD and Pantley's gentle removal, and the second is a method people use in its own right).

The not bedsharing in the morning thing was just a thought...honestly, because I have always known that bedsharing isn't for us, I just haven't read very much about it. I know it's common for parents to bring the baby into their bed in the mornings though. IIRC, Weissbluth's take is that you should bedshare only if you do it consistently and plan to do it from birth...I'm sure other ladies on this thread know better what most of the experts say.

 

[stephie_corin]

Radcat, I know I've said this before but it is uncanny how similar our little ones are. I could have written your post word for word, including the naps. C can't pull himself to stand though so just moans until I come to pick him up! I've seen some slight improvements this last few days. Not sure if it is coincidence or what I'm doing but I thought I'd share:
- respecting his max awake times religiously. For a while he was happily staying wake for 3+ hours but Ive pulled that right back except for last awake time.
- he was waking up at 5 but now I rock him and bring him to bed with us and he has been sleeping closer to six. It sounds like you already do this.
- we do wakeup at 6 am, first nap 2 hours later, next nap 2.25 hours after wakeup, next nap 2.5 hours after wakeup and bed time 2.75-3 hours later.
- I'm still feeding/rocking to sleep but last night he slept from 230-5 and I have had a few other two hour sleeps at night which is a vast improvement from the 30 min/hourly wakings.
Again, this could all be coincidence and you might already be doing this but just thought I would share xxx

 

[NotNic]

Last night F woke up at 1am and 4am. The cats woke me up at 5am (seems they like his early starts...) and by the time OH's alarm went off at 6.40 I was very surprised I was still in bed! Seems yesterday's session at nursery and his motn antics wore him out and he woke at 7.30!!!! Strangely feel like I'm running late already today. Think what I could have got done in those bonus 90 extra mins

 

[mellyboo]

Last night started rough for us I put her to bed and usually OH put hers to bed it's his routine and her time with him since he sleeps all day long because he works nights...and she was sooooo restless from 8-10 she would pass out and then whimper and i could see her rolling in her crib like crazy to be fair it was warm in her room its been so warm here its crazy Oh went up and open the window for about an hour and i hurried my butt to bed because i thought it was going to be a longggg night.... but she only woke up once and slept in tooo .

I'm so pleased with her right now, i really hope she keeps this up because this is nice!

Notnic seem like you had a good night all in all though besides the cat ahaha!!

 

[polaris]

Last night F woke up at 1am and 4am. The cats woke me up at 5am (seems they like his early starts...) and by the time OH's alarm went off at 6.40 I was very surprised I was still in bed! Seems yesterday's session at nursery and his motn antics wore him out and he woke at 7.30!!!! Strangely feel like I'm running late already today. Think what I could have got done in those bonus 90 extra mins

LOL we need a cat sleep training thread!

Clara was very disturbed for the first half of the night but she slept solidly from 3.30 until 7.30 so that wasn't too bad, at least I got a bit of rest. (The cat had a lie in too!)