Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[polaris]

Stephie, that's great that the mattress on the floor and side-carred cot will hopefully work for you!

To answer your questions - Clara does feed at the majority of night wakings. For a while I was making good progress on settling her in other ways and I was trying to only feed her maximum twice a night. However that has sort of gone out the window over the last month mainly because she has been unwell constantly, with a cold, then conjunctivitis, then the dreaded chicken pox. She just really wanted to feed for comfort and I was also glad for her to be getting whatever antibodies she could from the milk to help her fight off the illness. But now that she's better (fingers crossed!) I think I will go back to working on limiting night feeds. I'm not quite ready yet because I need to catch up on a bit of sleep myself first, but maybe after the weekend.

I stopped bedsharing with Clara when she was almost seven months because it just really wasn't working any more and no-one was getting any sleep. I moved her to the cot in our room first and it was very difficult. I had been trying to put her in the cot for part of the night for a few weeks but it was getting harder instead of easier. This is when I did CC to help her to learn to self-settle in the cot. Looking back it probably wasn't the best idea to move straight to CC from bedsharing but I was really desperate at the time and her sleep just seemed to be getting worse and worse. Moving her to her own room was really easy in comparison, it didn't actually impact on her sleep at all. She actually was in her brother's room for a couple of weeks because I do eventually want them to share a room. But this wasn't really working out partly because I worried that she was disturbing him (even though he actually never woke up!) but mainly because he was disturbing her when he was going to bed (she usually did wake up when he was going to bed and it was really upsetting his bedtime routine) and I also worried that his night light was affecting her sleep. So now she's in the spare room which actually works out well because as I said there is a futon in there that I can sleep on when she is very unsettled. Eventually though I would love for them to share a room and have a spare room again. When she's sleeping a bit better....

 

[Noelle610]

I feel like I shouldn't even post here but I have a question guys: Sofia's been sleeping at around 6:30 pm for the past 4 months. In the past week or so though, she stays up when we put her down whining, crying and talking until closer to 7:30 pm (we're putting her down at 6:45pm). I'm not really complaining as she sttn till around 6:30 am but wondering if I should put her to bed later? Maybe have her in bed by 7:15 pm or even closer to 8 pm?

Here's how her day goes:
- wakes up at around 6:30-7 am
- naps from 10-11:30 am
- naps again from 2:30-3:30 pm

I'd appreciate help on this

Yes to the later bedtime! Try 7/7:30. A 4 hour awake time between last nap and bedtime is totally appropriate at this age. If that doesn't work, try capping nap 1 at an hour and keeping the 2:30pm second nap.

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Thanks guys! She does rub her eyes as soon as she sees her sleep sack but I think it's coz she knows sleep sack = sleep, lol! Then she stays up and talks to her lil stuff toy. I'm going to start her routine at 7:00 pm tonight. She's never taken long to self settle before so I'm thinking she's not tired when we put her down.

Noelle - happy birthday to Charlotte! I cannot believe she's one already. What did you guys do for her birthday?

 

[Noelle610]

Thanks Lady!

Nothing much, we just had some cake and put her in a cute dress

I have family in town this weekend, so we'll have a small barbeque.

 

[Sunnie1984]

To Noelle and Bananaz - Happy Birthday to Charlotte and Elsie - I know I'm late but I hope they had great days!

To everyone else, I am reading, but we are inundated with guests left right and centre - I guess that is what happens when you live in the sunshine and all your family are back in the UK in the rain!

So sorry I can't respond individually but I will when I get five mins.

Shadowy Lady - you beat me to a post again! I think our LO's are in sync!

I'm having problems with a later bedtime - Noelle and Bananaz when did your LO's start going to bed later.

We used to do 6pm and no later - for the last two nights she's been fighting until almost 8pm.

Today went like this:

6:15am Wake Up
9:00am Nap 1
10:20am Awake
1:20pm Nap 2
2:00pm Awake

It's now 7:30pm and we have been fighting since 6:00pm as she started showing tired signs at 5:30pm.

Still screaming as I type - Grandma trying to settle with zero success.

Tips?

Also separation anxiety reared her ugly head this week - any advice on that?

Must dash and rescue crying baby!

xxx

 

[gaiagirl]

Thanks ladies!

NotNic - The only reason he slept until 8 that time was because he fought bedtime until sooooo late! He does usually wake by 7 if he is asleep by 8ish. Like last night, bed at 8 and up at 7.

I will try longer awake times today and see how it goes! Guess all I can do is experiment

 

[stephie_corin]

Here is our new bed arrangement! Excuse the poorly made bed.

Polaris, I'll be watching your progress with Clara closely. She's two months older than C and we seem to have similar parenting approaches. I'm so excited about bed sharing but I have a small doubt that we will end up regretting it and finding it impossible to get him in his own bed but I'm going to run with it for now. I think you are doing the right thing giving you and Clara a few days to get back to your normal selves before you tackle the night feeds. I love the idea of your two sharing a room, so cute! Thanks for sharing your bed sharing story.

Wow fighting bedtime seems to be a common theme. C fought for an hour tonight. I'd be tempted to run with a later bedtime but his last nap finishes at 2pm and he is awake at 530 am at the latest, so I think a bedtime of 545-6 is best for him. He obviously has other ideas! I'm sure this baby forum exists ... They're all sneaking online when we are asleep.

I showed DH the tummy rubbing soothing tonight (he watched on the video monitor) and he was amazed! Other than tonight and last night C has never been soothed back to sleep with anything other than bouncing, rocking and nursing (often all three!)

Good luck for tonight everyone xxx

 

[Noelle610]

To Noelle and Bananaz - Happy Birthday to Charlotte and Elsie - I know I'm late but I hope they had great days!

To everyone else, I am reading, but we are inundated with guests left right and centre - I guess that is what happens when you live in the sunshine and all your family are back in the UK in the rain!

So sorry I can't respond individually but I will when I get five mins.

Shadowy Lady - you beat me to a post again! I think our LO's are in sync!

I'm having problems with a later bedtime - Noelle and Bananaz when did your LO's start going to bed later.

We used to do 6pm and no later - for the last two nights she's been fighting until almost 8pm.

Today went like this:

6:15am Wake Up
9:00am Nap 1
10:20am Awake
1:20pm Nap 2
2:00pm Awake

It's now 7:30pm and we have been fighting since 6:00pm as she started showing tired signs at 5:30pm.

Still screaming as I type - Grandma trying to settle with zero success.

Tips?

Also separation anxiety reared her ugly head this week - any advice on that?

Must dash and rescue crying baby!

xxx

Hey Sunnie! I think it was likely around that age - maybe 9 months or so.

I'd try extending your middle wake time and making that second nap later. You may find it lasts longer with the extended wake time as well. If he's waking from the first nap at 10:20am, perhaps try for the second nap at 2pm. Bedtime should ideally be no more than 4 hours after the second nap. I think a slight schedule adjustment may really help.

Re: Separation anxiety? Is it happening at bedtime or all throughout the day? Also, what does your bedtime routine consist of? And how long is it?

 

[Boo44]

Noelle you are so helpful

 

[Aimee4311]

Stephie- that's how my room is arranged!

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Sunnie - hahaha our babies are totally talking to each other. Sofia doesn't really scream or anything but she talks to her stuffed animal, coos, whines...I'm definitely trying a later bedtime today.

Someone mentioned cultural differences when it comes to baby's sleep - I was at my mom's today and one of her friends who's this older Persian lady was there as well. She asked me how Sofia sleeps and I said she's been sleeping through for the past 2 months. She asked if that's counting night feeds and I told her that Sofia night weaned herself at 6 months. She was shocked to her core. She thinks ALL babies need night feeds until they're a year old and she was asking why I wasn't feeding Sofia, lol! I'm thinking "Lady, I told you she night weaned herself, she'd be annoyed if I went in, woke her and fed her"....*shrugs*

 

[polaris]

That's really interesting Shadowy. I think Clara would definitely agree with your mum's friend, mind you.

 

[polaris]

Hi again everyone,
I'm just looking for any thoughts about wake-up time in the mornings. Clara doesn't have any sort of consistent natural wake-up time, which I find a bit strange to be honest as most sleep books suggest that their natural wake-up time should be reasonably consistent. Clara could wake any time from 6.30 to 9 a.m. I never had this with Thomas as he always woke at pretty much the same time (usually way too early!), within about 30 minutes anyway.

So a couple of questions - firstly, does anyone have any thoughts on why her wake-up time varies so much? Secondly, should I try to control her wake-up time (I'm guessing yes, because otherwise her routine just varies so much from one day to the next). Thirdly, what time should I wake her - and does it matter? It would suit me to wake her at 7 a.m. and get her down for her first nap early so that we can go out somewhere reasonably early with DS when she gets up. But I do have some reservations because she actually very rarely wakes before 7.30 if I leave her to wake up naturally. So would I be better waking her at 7.30 if she's not already awake? It just seems a bit wrong to have to wake her up every single morning!

I actually can't really believe that I'm posting this when most people are battling with early wakings at this age! But then Clara has always done everything pretty much backwards with regard to her sleep patterns! LOL.

 

[Aimee4311]

I don't have advice, Polaris. Josalyn's wake up time is normally between 8-9, and I count myself lucky for that! It's a rough day when she wakes at 7:30! But her's varies a lot too.

I got her down at 8:15 this evening. About 45 minutes earlier than normal! She woke up early this morning, so it worked out. I didn't nurse to sleep either!

 

[bananaz]

So a couple of questions - firstly, does anyone have any thoughts on why her wake-up time varies so much? Secondly, should I try to control her wake-up time (I'm guessing yes, because otherwise her routine just varies so much from one day to the next). Thirdly, what time should I wake her - and does it matter? It would suit me to wake her at 7 a.m. and get her down for her first nap early so that we can go out somewhere reasonably early with DS when she gets up. But I do have some reservations because she actually very rarely wakes before 7.30 if I leave her to wake up naturally. So would I be better waking her at 7.30 if she's not already awake? It just seems a bit wrong to have to wake her up every single morning!

I actually can't really believe that I'm posting this when most people are battling with early wakings at this age! But then Clara has always done everything pretty much backwards with regard to her sleep patterns! LOL.

I can't offer an explanation for the inconsistency but I will say that Elsie also had really random wake-up times at that age - she would be up anywhere between 5am and 8am (but usually on the earlier end of that spectrum). It drove me crazy! Anyway, she settled back into a more consistent wake-up time at around 10/11 months, so maybe it's a developmental thing?

As far as whether to wake her, what time is she going to bed? And how are her naps these days?

 

[seaweed eater]

Polaris, if you wake her up most days then at least it will be super consistent...and maybe she'll start waking up at that time on her own. Not saying you should do it, but I think it could have its virtues.

I was going to ask the exact same questions as Bananaz.

Sunnie, hope things start getting easier. My LO has some separation anxiety and sometimes it helps him fall asleep if I stay in the room for a moment after putting him down, but I also don't want to make him scared or upset if he wakes up and finds me gone. So far that hasn't happened, knock on wood.

I didn't know they started wanting a later bedtime around 9 months. Maybe that's related to what has been going on with my LO. That would make me feel better! Because I haven't been able to understand why he's suddenly started fighting bedtime.

Stephie, I don't know anything about bedsharing, but your arrangement looks good So glad the tummy rubbing is working well! My LO just hates that, it always makes him really mad goes to show you how what works great for one baby doesn't work at all for another!

Aimee, glad things are going well, hope you have a good night tonight

Gaia, how did the day go?

We had a good bedtime tonight. LO was fussy by 7:30 so we decided to try putting him down, and he fell asleep fairly easily at 7:45. But then we had a 45-min waking, though he went down ok after nursing. But since then has been moaning in his sleep on and off. Just hoping the 45 minute thing doesn't become a pattern. Still no tooth. I'm hoping we don't have to go through another horrible night before it appears.

The only reason I was able to keep him awake in the car yesterday is that it worked out for DH to drive us home, so I sat in the backseat playing peekaboo and making funny noises. It really took a lot of effort. No way I could ever do that from the front seat.

 

[stephie_corin]

Polaris, I would wake her at 7 definitely, especially if it fits in with your family. She'll just take naps earlier and bed time will be earlier and she will naturally start waking at that time. I think it will give her a nice consistent start to her day and help her find her own routine. I could be wrong but I'm sure I read that even for adults a consistent wake up time is good for healthy sleep habits. I think it's better to go to bed early if you are tired rather than sleep longer in the morning. This must apply to babies too?

Sunnie I hope you had a good night. Maybe all the visitors are exciting for S and its making bed time harder? I know C gets super excited when we have people over.

Aimee I'm so glad things are going well still! Keep up the good work! And how funny that we have the same bedroom set up! We did our first night like that last night and I think it worked great!

SE could you get an annoying electronic toy that makes noises and lights up? It might keep him awake in the car? The 45 min waking is so strange. C has done it for months now. And still no tooth!?! Eeek! Poor munchkin!

I was too optimistic when I said both bottom teeth popped through. I finally got the chance to take a look in his mouth and only one is through. I can see the other just below the surface. At 2am last night he woke and was inconsolable and making an 'I'm in pain cry' so I gave him iboprufen at about 330am and he ended up sleeping (with a few more wakings) until 610am! It's the longest lie in we have had in months!!!

Does anyone know what the minimum day sleep is at 7 months? I think he needs slightly less to avoid this bedtime fighting. Is 2 x 45 mins-1 hour ok? Also, he nurses to sleep and I never know when to start timing his nap. He closes his eyes as soon as he latches on but he's not asleep. He usually is by the end of his feed though.

 

[gaiagirl]

Seaweed its soooo funny how much your LO wants to fall asleep in the car! (I'm sure it's not funny to you) I seriously TRY to get mine to and he won't unless he's SUPER tired and the ride lasts over 30min.

If you ever go on a road trip you'll be up alllll night, because he'll sleep the whole way!

So our day was:

Up at 7

9:20 I could NOT keep him up much longer, sooo fussy. So nap 9:30-10:30. Although he woke at 9:45 and needed put back down So a bit of a fragmented nap.

Then we went out shopping for awhile and next nap was at 1:30 (again he seemed a bit finicky with being transferred to crib) but slept one cycle.

I decided to do a power nap at 4 because we were going out and I was worried he wouldn't deal well without one. He only slept like 25-30min.

I think his teeth are bugging him because they LOOK so sore, so I think it may be why naps were so odd today.

Anyways, last wake time was 4:30 and he was asleep by 8. Again, he slept all evening without a peep! Amazing!

Gave us time to catch up on some Arrested Development before the new season is released Sunday (anyone else a fan!?).

 

[stephie_corin]

Gaia that sounds like such a good day! The nice long nap in the morning is awesome.

Omg a new season of arrested development?!? It's one of our favourite shows! I had no idea they were doing a new season! Whoop!!

 

[mrssunshine78]

I have no advice for anyone sorry, Jasmine has always mainly done her own thing, nothing according to the baby manual Although at 7 months she was having 3 hour ish long naps. Polaris, I too think I'd wake Clara at 7 every day to get her into a routine that suits you.

Last night was awful, she goes to bed really well, within a minute or 2 of putting her down she's asleep. Last night she woke at 1230-130 and would only go back off in our bed, then woke at 3 briefly then back off until 350, fed her to see if it would make her go back off, it didn't, hubby put her in her cot about 415 and she went back off for 20 mins, brought her back in our bed and she slept on me until 6. I'm exhausted as is hubby. Do you think she's overtired?? If so how do we get over this??? It seems to be a very viscous circle.

Wondering about CC too, has anyone used it with success? We're going on holiday on Thursday and not sure whether its worth trying to start something now???