Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[polaris]

Shelby - my goodness, I just can't imagine coping with all that with two and managing to pump as well. You are doing AMAZING!!! Your old schedule looks great, it can feel so depressing when everything takes such a turn for the worse and multiply that by 1000% with two of them not sleeping properly! The only thing that I am wondering is whether they are ready for longer awake times now that they are a bit older? Maybe try 2 hours instead of 1.5? I wish I had more helpful advice for you - it sounds so stressful.

I follow their cues and put them down when they get tired. Since this sleep issue has started, they actually get tired after only 1 hour of awake time. If I keep them up longer than that, they are overtired and scream. The only exception to this being from 9:00 to 12:00/3:00. Then they can suddenly spend HOURS awake without getting tired!

Oh dear, it sounds like a vicious circle, I'd say the short awake times are contributing to the pattern of catnapping but it sounds like they are getting tired really quickly because of the generally rubbish sleep. I hope Noelle or somebody has some good advice for you hun.

 

[seaweed eater]

Wow Shelby, you are amazing to have kept up what you are doing. I bet it doesn't help very much to hear that though when what you want is solutions!

The one thing I wonder is, do they nap well in a moving car? That's been my go-to technique, knock on wood, when mine really needs a nap and nothing seems to work. I drive until he's asleep, park, read a book or do some work or something, and then start driving again when he's completing a cycle or if he stirs. If that works for you, it strikes me that it's something you could do to get both of them synchronized during the day. And you could get a car adapter for your pump and get that done at the same time.

Do you have the financial resources to hire any form of help? I can't imagine being stretched as thin as you are between trying to manage both of their naps and pumping. But I know that's not an option that's available for everyone.

Shadowy, I'm not sure what could be causing that we have had some leaks before though even with Huggies Overnites. What I do now is put a full cloth diaper over the Huggies and usually that does the trick. A wool diaper cover might work too. Might be something to consider if you can't get it to stop?

Polaris, I'm so sorry you have had such a rough night. I really hope you got some rest in the end.

Aimee, we definitely have had plenty of days with three naps. That happens sometimes. Just go with it.

Munchkin is unwell or something. He's been grumpy and not himself all day. Bedtime tonight was rough. But I didn't feel as guilty about it, because he screamed no matter what we did so I didn't feel like there was anything I could have done that would have been better for him. And he was clearly really trying to go to sleep. I'm going to go ahead and say it's teething. If I'm wrong, it can just be one of those positive illusions that help maintain one's sanity...
Anyway, going to keep nursing and putting down awake during the night if at all possible.

 

[stephie_corin]

Shelby, I wonder if you could do bath time before they go to sleep at 6. I wonder if the bath is waking them up and stimulating them hence the late nights. My LO has had an early bedtime for a long time now (6pm). I'd treat the 9pm waking as a night waking and rock them straight back to sleep.

So sorry for you!!! It sounds so difficult! X

 

[stephie_corin]

Amy, could well be a growth spurt! I agree with the others - go for three naps! We've had days I'm sure C would have benefited from 3 naps instead of me pushing him when he is tired.

Shadowy, I'm not sure why she is leaking now - could it be she is moving more in her sleep rather than a greater quantity of pee? If the volume of liquid she is taking in is the same I can't think of a reason she is peeing more. I think SE's suggestion is a good one.

Polaris! 3am and you were wide awake!?! Oh no! I hope you got some sleep!

SE, poor Munchkin. Teething really is the pits. And don't worry, Culver has been 'teething' for four months now I think Munchkin will most likely skip crawling and go straight to walking, once he nails rolling. I read that once they are mobile (whether bum shuffling, crawling or rolling consecutively) they often don't bother learning other ways until they walk. And he's cruising already right? Clever boy!

We had our usual night. He's doing a longer stretch now at the start (4 hours) which is amazing but thereafter it's still an hourly event, until 4am when suddenly he thinks its fun to wake up every 15 minutes! Up for the day at 530am. I swear the BnB curse is totally real. I've been banging on about how well I can rock him back to sleep and he now wakes at 6am. Well, these last two nights he's shown me! I think it could be overtiredness/teething/hitting milestones etc., (basically I have no idea) but I'm trying Polaris' waketimes today. We just did 3 hours waketime and I'll try 3.5 for the next two.

 

[ShelbyLC]

Wow Shelby, you are amazing to have kept up what you are doing. I bet it doesn't help very much to hear that though when what you want is solutions!

The one thing I wonder is, do they nap well in a moving car? That's been my go-to technique, knock on wood, when mine really needs a nap and nothing seems to work. I drive until he's asleep, park, read a book or do some work or something, and then start driving again when he's completing a cycle or if he stirs. If that works for you, it strikes me that it's something you could do to get both of them synchronized during the day. And you could get a car adapter for your pump and get that done at the same time.

Do you have the financial resources to hire any form of help? I can't imagine being stretched as thin as you are between trying to manage both of their naps and pumping. But I know that's not an option that's available for everyone.

Thank you

They do sleep very well in the car. For about two weeks straight, when this first started, that was our last resort - we would stick them in the car around 11pm and drive until they were in a deep sleep. There were many times when they woke while being carried into the house and it wasn't ideal. We were already exhausted and driving while tired led to us nearly falling asleep behind the wheel one too many times. We're trying to avoid that now, as I don't want it to become the only way they fall asleep, but if they just won't nap during the day and I'm having a hard time calming myself down, I will put them in the car and drive them around while I grab lunch or something.

Unfortunately, we can't afford to hire any help. We're stretched pretty thin, despite OH working all the time. We do have family nearby but don't get on well with any of them, and even if we did, they all work full time. We don't even have a babysitter for emergencies. I haven't had a day to myself since the girls came home from the NICU

Shelby, I wonder if you could do bath time before they go to sleep at 6. I wonder if the bath is waking them up and stimulating them hence the late nights. My LO has had an early bedtime for a long time now (6pm). I'd treat the 9pm waking as a night waking and rock them straight back to sleep.

So sorry for you!!! It sounds so difficult! X

We started out keeping to the schedule with 6:30 baths and treating anything after 7 as nighttime waking, but no matter what we do, once they wake up, they're AWAKE. Last night, I put the girls down at 8 and they stayed asleep! I hoped we had finally reached the end of this mess, but they both woke up at 1AM. We managed to get Britton back to sleep after 45 minutes but Tegan fought for 2 hours before OH admitted defeat and passed out. I finally had to let her play for an hour before she got tired enough to fall asleep again.

I just don't understand why they are having this long period of awake time in the middle of the night!

 

[stephie_corin]

Shelby how about an earlier bedtime? They may be overtired. I'd work on up at the same time every day and lengthening their awake times to 1.5 hours - can you take them outside to get some sunlight? Noelle mention previously that sunlight suppresses melatonin so it might help them stay awake longer in the day.

Good luck and please keep us updated x

 

[rmsh1]

Wow RMSH, it sounds like you are doing everything textbook correctly well done. You seem to have a really good handle on appropriate responses and how to soothe her for naps etc. its great you aren't feeding to sleep too - my son has a really strong suck to sleep association and it means no one can put him down but me. It's a good sign that she is waking at night and going straight back to sleep - she doesn't have her days and nights confused. There are quite a few growth spurts up to 6 months of age, so she may actually be waking from hunger.

As I said, you're already doing a fantastic job. What I would suggest is:

- get her up at 7 (or 730 if you want to shower first) so it will start setting her internal clock. She may be difficult to wake but persevere and soon she should start waking naturally at this time.
- decrease her max awake time to 1.5 hours. This means she should be asleep 1.5 hours after she last woke.
- if you can manage it, try to feed her more frequently in the day. The more she eats during the day, the less likely it is she will wake at night for a feed. This is particularly true if she is going through a growth spurt.
- if you can get away with one nappy until morning time, I wouldn't change her. I only change my son if he has a dirty nappy between bed time and morning.

I know it's hard to switch off but do try to lie down at least once in the day when she is taking a long nap. Even lying with your eyes closed resting is very restorative.

Good luck, I'm sure the others will have good advice for you too. Please keep us updated xxx

OK I will keep trying to have her up by 7.30am. It is really hard when she just wants to keep sleeping. I had her up at 7.30am today though. But the routine always goes out the window when we go out somewhere, like today to a friends place. So Emma got her first nap at home, then we left after feeding and her second nap came a bit late but she slept at my friends place in a cot. Then we went to a mall for her next nap, just to try to ensure she got a nap. Then we were home and she had a 50 minute nap just now, but has woken quite cranky.

The only times she has been awake for 2 hours is when she has just not shown any tired signs. Normally she is awake about an hour 15 minutes.

I have also tried to feed her more today, offering her both boobs over the course of about 45 minutes. She is a pukey baby so I am a bit weary of over feeding her - she never says no! She has a bit of reflux.

I feel mean leaving her in one nappy all night long, I admit. Her nappy at 6am this morning was not hugely wet, but her nappy at around 8am was soaking, so I don't think she pees too much at night any more, mostly when she wakes up.

Thanks for the tips!

rmsh1 - I am definitely no sleep expert, but I'd have to agree with everyone else, it sounds like you are doing great!! I do remember from that time, my LO's bedtime was around 9 or 9:30 too, and it eventually got earlier and earlier. Now, she consistently goes down at 7 or 7:30.

Thanks, I hope Emma's gets earlier too, as I am basically having to be alert to her every need right til she decides to go to sleep. I would love just a few hours for myself and OH to be ourselves again!

rmsh - I think it sounds like you are doing everything right. I think one of the hardest things about baby sleep is letting go of the belief that there is a magic formula that will get them sleeping right and accepting that to a large extent it is out of your control. I would continue with what you are doing but I would try to relax about her sleep and avoid letting it get in on you if she's not sleeping perfectly (I am the biggest stress head about Clara's sleep so I should really follow my own advice. LOL). Some babies sleep through the night early and their parents do everything "wrong" whereas other babies just don't even if you do everything according to recommendations. I think Stephie's advice is good and I would definitely agree with shortening wake-times to 1.5 and controlling the morning wake-up time - but honestly there is only so much you can do and the rest is just out of your control. I found (find) this very hard to come to terms with as I am used to being in control of things and I think I can see a bit of that in your post (apologies if I am reading too much into your post). I always feel that if I can just control all the variables it will sort her sleep out - it is a huge pressure to put on oneself because you can then end up almost viewing it as a personal failure if they don't sleep.

Yes I definitely feel like if I could fix all the variables, maybe she will sleep better, so guilty as charged of that! But you ladies here have really helped me see that I just need to let Emma be Emma in some ways, and only try to control a few things (like wake up time)

 

[AmyS]

Hello ladies! Wow, I might just feel like a million bucks today!

I put little miss to bed an hour early last night, and she woke up for a bottle at 11:45pm, went back to sleep, woke up at 4:30, fed her another bottle, and we went back to bed until 6am (our usual wake up time). This is amazing! She must have been exhausted from the previous night.

I did try to start her out in her crib, but she immediately woke up sobbing/screaming, so I stuck her in the rock 'n play. My only worry is that she will get used to the rock 'n play again after we worked so hard to get her out of it! I guess if I was a consistent mommy, I could have kept trying the crib, but I also know that she needs sleep (as do I) any way we can get it right now.
________

Shelby - I am still in awe of you! And I still have no advice, but I just love your baby girls' names!

Shadowy - I have had good luck going up one size in the night time diaper I'm using. I call them her "big butt diapers", but now that I think about it, I better stop doing that, or I'll probably give her a bad body image!!!

Stephie - What is this BnB curse?? Maybe I'm better off not knowing??

Seaweed - Sorry for the rough night! Teething is such a pain. I wondered if that was causing my LO's super crankiness this morning, but I didn't give her anything for it before I sent her to daycare. It's so hard to know for sure! (For all I know, she could have just hated the outfit I put her in.)

 

[stephie_corin]

Good luck RMSH! It's so nice when they start sleeping earlier and you get some adult time. I hope it happens for you soon. I think you'll find when she stays awake longer (say 1.5 hours) and has 4 naps her bedtime will get earlier.

Amy, I'm so glad you had a good night! You certainly needed it! I just googled the rock and play - does it continually move or just when you want to rock her - I couldn't tell from google image. Is there any safety issue with her sleeping in it? Or health issue? It looks like a kind if cot. If there's no issues with it I wouldn't sweat it if it's making your life easier. As you say, it's allowing you both to get some much needed sleep! And you know, I don't think it was exhaustion - I think it was progress

The BnB curse gets me every time I post about progress - guaranteed the next day the opposite happens! Lol. Or not so lol!

Polaris, you are a genius! 3, 3.5 and 3.5 worked so well today! I was worried he wouldn't make 3 in the morning but he did fine. He's asleep in my arms now - just waiting for some deep sleep before I put him down. I thought he'd have difficulty falling asleep but 3.5 seemed to hit a real sweet spot! So thanks

 

[Noelle610]

Stephie - What is this BnB curse?? Maybe I'm better off not knowing??

Once you say your baby is sleeping well, they stop! It's like a jinx!

I haven't checked in on my own story it quite some time, but we had a tough night here! Charlie's been consistently STTN these days, but was up several times from 7pm to midnight. No idea why! I finally gave her advil at that time and she slept the rest of the night with a few peeps around 5am. The dreaded teetihng, maybe? Molars? Her daddy is away right now and she could be sensitive to the change. We have a lot of traveling to do over the next few weeks and I'm slightly scared it will mess up her sleep completely.

 

[Noelle610]

ok question for the ladies whose babies sttn or anyone else who might know:

Sofia has been waking up at 5:45 am the past three days because she's peed so much it has leaked into her sleepsuite. Is there a reason why she would pee so much all of the sudden? She always has a heavy diaper in the morning but never quite this much :/

Should I give her last bottle before bath perhaps? I just don't understand this.

What kind of diapers are you using? Huggies Overnights are truly the best. A friend of mine gets extra padded inserts because her LO pees a lot. That may help too.

I don't know that moving the bottle up would help, but you could certainly try! 30 minutes or so won't make a difference in her hunger level at this age, I don't think.

 

[AmyS]

Stephie - It only rocks if you manually move it. There aren't really any health concerns, but it can cause a flat spot if baby sleeps in it for all naps and night time. Also, my pediatrician doesn't like her in it all night because she prefers them flat for their spine development. It was wonderful to use when she had RSV and needed to be upright, and I think reflux babies also use it a lot. And she's getting too big for it, really! She can sit upright in it, but thankfully, her butt is down too low so she can't catapult herself out of it.

Noelle - Oh crap! I guess I'll plan on partying all night tonight! Poor Charlie! I heard molars are the worst.

 

[stephie_corin]

Stephie - What is this BnB curse?? Maybe I'm better off not knowing??

Once you say your baby is sleeping well, they stop! It's like a jinx!

I haven't checked in on my own story it quite some time, but we had a tough night here! Charlie's been consistently STTN these days, but was up several times from 7pm to midnight. No idea why! I finally gave her advil at that time and she slept the rest of the night with a few peeps around 5am. The dreaded teetihng, maybe? Molars? Her daddy is away right now and she could be sensitive to the change. We have a lot of traveling to do over the next few weeks and I'm slightly scared it will mess up her sleep completely.

Noelle! Hugs! I've heard molars can be pretty tough good luck with your travels. I hope Charlie doesn't get too disrupted. And good luck with no DH around! X

 

[mellyboo]

ok question for the ladies whose babies sttn or anyone else who might know:

Sofia has been waking up at 5:45 am the past three days because she's peed so much it has leaked into her sleepsuite. Is there a reason why she would pee so much all of the sudden? She always has a heavy diaper in the morning but never quite this much :/

Should I give her last bottle before bath perhaps? I just don't understand this.

we have to use over night diapers with Jords no matter how much she drinks she will pee right through..

Anyway so i haven't posted in here because i honestly didn't want the BNB curse well we had one rough sunday night up every 30 mins not sure what that was about.. you would think last night i would be able to sleep heck no... I'm having sleep issue's now my body can't adjust to sleeping she does great one week and crap the next my body is messed up ... i lay in bed stressing out all night because I no i'll be so tired in the morning!... It sucks!! I made a dr's appointment even.

 

[VikkiD]

Daniels not been to bad we have had a few wakings and a few night feeds but things are getting better again

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Thanks guys, we use Pampers Baby Dry for her. Maybe I give Huggies overnight a try too. Though this morning she was fine and slept till 7:00 am. But I just prefer not to have the 5:30 am ever if it can be avoided

 

[gaiagirl]

Wow sleep is a mess this week! He IS still cutting teeth but its getting ridiculous to keep blaming teething?! One is super close but still not through then we might get a break...

He is soooo close to crawling, and I think in the throes of separation anxiety. He gets quite upset if someone walks away...

Do those things mess sleep up badly?!

Naps have been a MESS for like 3-4 days and taking the soother is totally over. Evenings are insane, he will power nap on the boob then get a second wind and be up until 9/10. Ridiculous!

I have been here before...I know it ends...but it still feels permanent while I'm in it.

Repeating: "He's having a hard time, not giving me a hard time"

Sighhhhhhhh

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Gaia - all the things you said can mess up with sleep, but it depends on the baby. For us crawling at 6 months caused sleep disruption just when she had started to sttn. However, it only lasted a week and then back to sttn. Teething does bother her but I give her ibroprofen and she still sleeps through. Have you tried giving your LO medication? It won't do any harm and only ease his pain.

Hope things get better soon for you

 

[AmyS]

Repeating: "He's having a hard time, not giving me a hard time"

I like that! I might have to use that mantra, in the middle of the night, when we are partying hard!

 

[gaiagirl]

It's a tough one with meds because my guy is not much of a cryer, so if he is then I will usually give him something for pain. BUT lately is hasn't been awake and crying type of sleeplessness, just awake and can't unwind and ready to party sleeplessness. And I'm not convinced he is in pain!?